What happens when we eat poorly?
please go into WebMd, put together by doctors and see their podcast.
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when you eat poorly, you set yourself up for inflammation. Inflammation is the precursor to disease.
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How do you define poor diet? Is what you define to be poor diet a diet that sets yourself up for inflammation? What percentage of the inflammation is caused by your poor diet and what percentage caused by other issues? Does your specific poor diet which may not be the same as someone else's poor diet cause temporary or chronic and uncontrolled inflammation?
Do you have periodontal disease? Because that can cause chronic inflammation too! Does all inflammation lead to disease? Are all diseases caused by inflammation?
Could I eat poorly, have inflammation and then not get disease? Could I eat goodly, not get inflammation and still get disease? Could I eat goodly and still get inflammation and not get disease or get disease?
Who is disease? Why do I have to get inflammation to get disease?
I bet you I can get disease without having inflammation and while eating not poorly! What does that prove?
But, I'll bite. I'm all in. Say NO to poor eating! Rich eating for the win!
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Thank you!
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I’m afraid I find this triggering - I know it’s not meant to be. I’m all for healthy eating and balance, and I eat a predominantly whole food diet.
But here’s the thing: I was vegetarian. I was teetotal. I wasn’t overweight. I exercised regularly. And I still got cancer. And I had contacts telling me it was my fault, it was because I didn’t eat meat. Or I ate carbs. Or I exercised too much / too little. You name it. Because hitting the genetic jackpot which gave me an evil *kitten* cancer which made me feel ill for YEARS was too scary for people to face, so the blame was easier.
Sorry - I said I was triggered. It’s just that not everyone can afford to eat well (I could and did / do), and it feels like a slippery slope to victim shaming.
Other things cause disease. Regardless of eating patterns.15 -
So . . .
@genre009 , what changes have you made in your own eating routine to eat more healthfully? Have you learned tactics that made healthy eating easier and more achievable for you, that you could mention and maybe help others?
On the flip side, are there things that have been roadblocks or challenges for you in pursuit of eating well? If so, how have you overcome them? If you haven't overcome them, maybe other people would have ideas you could try.
Podcasts and authoritative sources for those and other kinds of info (articles, books, research results) are all good things. A lot of people here find good sources and post links to them, which is great. But IMO, IME it's only one piece of the puzzle. One thing the MFP Community is really good for is sharing things that have worked for us, or brainstorming with others when we have a bump in the road to overcome. That's the practical and personal side of it, different from the theoretical or generic information that comes from other sources.
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like honest, personal discussions are one way we get to know each other, socially bond in a way, become sort of virtual online friends, and become able to better support each other. I've been here a long time now, about a year of loss from obese to healthy weight, maintenance since. The Community has been a huge positive resource for me, and there are other long-timers here that I feel like I almost know - certainly want to support - as a result of long-term interaction with them. It's helped me succeed, big time. Still does.
Best wishes!
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I'm sorry, I thought I was stimulating a two way conversation.
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Getting poor choices in foods, foods you binge on out of the house, or eat them in smaller amounts, or plates.
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I'm not sure what you mean by that - posters answered you, isnt that a 2 (and more) way conversation?
Both posters also gave personal insights, not just copy/paste generic sentences and Ann invited you to do the same.
Eating poorly can obviously lead to diseases - obesity related diseases if poorly means too many calories, dental caries if too much sugar, etc.
Not convinced it leads to inflamation which then leads to disease - and obviously many diseases have other causes and often multi factor causes or unknown causes.
Opening statement was too broad IMO
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What does this have to do with inflammation and WebMD?
Are we now defining eating poorly as overeating?
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A conversation usually start with a greeting, a topic introduction, an active exchange (like a question), and a closing. Hope this helps.
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Hi people! WebMD is a site put together by doctors. It is a good site to find research.
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many practioners talk about gut health, and which foods trigger inflammation. Not all binging leads to inflammation. Only these foods: excessive sugar, salt, caffeine, processed foods, and man made noñ-nutrient foods cause illness. Our bodies depend on what we eat to stay healthy.
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Only these foods: excessive sugar, salt, caffeine, processed foods, and man made noñ-nutrient foods cause illness
I dont agree with that at all.
all of those foods can be part of a healthy diet and do not cause illness.
Obviously in excessive calorie amounts you will gain weight and obviously if you eat these to exclusion of other nutritious foods you will not have balanced nutrition
But I dont need a podcast to tell me that - is simple common sense.
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I feel like you are taking some fairly complex, nuanced issues and trying to make them very black and white and contained to a couple of sentences, which actually isn't very helpful.
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Op did say "excessive".
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Critical reading skills are critical...
I'm not that interested in either fully reading Gemini's critique below, or to bring it to a conclusion or to even double check it for the errors and omissions which are inevitable.
Then again, I don't actually trust WebMD as anything more than a starting point. And the same applies to Gemini in spades!
So, if you actually believe that either is authoritative, have a bit of a read and use up some of your free account prompts to wrap it all up with a bow...
Basically i asked Gemini to pick ten random web md nutrition pages and find issues with their stated positions....
took me longer to write all this than to actually ask the question
https://g.co/gemini/share/c955c4313a36
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Don't take it too personally, I'm sure your intentions were good. The problem is you were vague enough to leave a target on your back. Cheers.
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I agree. My daughter had graves disease at 28. Better than her aunt, dad's side, who had it at 23, or her grandma, dad's side, who had it at 21. Does that mean we fed my daughter better? Because she knew so much more about it than I did, will her daughters not have it until they're 40? Or will they have it at all? Will it be my daughter's fault for not feeding them right? Or theirs for not eating right? Where to place the BLAME.
Two things are definitely true!
- None of us ever did or ever will consult Web M.D. about nutrition.
- The original post is very triggering.
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WebMD does have doctors as part of the site's administration, but it's a part of a for-profit corporation, supported by ad revenue, sponsorships, and related functions. It has critics who believe it's biased toward its pharmaceutical-company sponsors, who feel that it uses misleading clickbait to draw more people to the site to maximize its ad revenue, and who think it promotes some practices that have limited or quite questionable evidence.
Personally, though I don't think it's among the worst of the terrible, I don't find it a great source for detailed, unbiased information. Often the content lacks nuance, and I agree with the critics who think it leans distastefully toward clickbait.
It does provide some links to research, but I wouldn't use it as an exclusive source. In general, I'd prefer sites associated with well-regarded major medical centers, mainstream major governmental sources of health and nutrition information, and information from other nonprofits that are focused on particular aspects of health/nutrition. Reading academic journals or research papers published in them is also an option, though some of those aren't very approachable for non-specialists.
I'm not sure what you mean by "not all binging leads to inflammation". I'm not even sure what you mean by "binging", since that term has a stricter technical definition in context of eating disorders, and a more casual conversational usage where it generally is just synonym for an episode of overeating. A=
Inflammation is more complicated than you're suggesting. Obesity is closely correlated with inflammation, and systemic inflammation is probable/possible even in people who become overweight too much supposedly-healthy food, not just people who exclusively or even primarily eat "excessive sugar, salt, caffeine, processed foods, and man made non-nutrient foods".
Sure, a diet composed exclusively of those things wouldn't generally be health-promoting, but there have been people who lost weight - kind of as a gimmick - eating primarily or exclusively those things, and improved their health markers in objective terms.
Also, even if eating only those things would generally be a poor plan for health, eating some of those things is compatible with quite good health. In certain cases, some of those are even beneficial: It's very common for long-endurance athletes like marathon runners, distance cyclists, long-even triathletes and others to consume pure sugars during competitive events and long training sessions, because they need exactly that type of quick energy. Context matters. Even recreational endurance athletes benefit from sugar consumption in certain situations.
By the way, there are other foods besides "excessive sugar, salt, caffeine, processed foods, and man made non-nutrient foods" that can cause illness. Excess amounts of many foods can do that, and the definition of "excess" can be surprisingly small. For example, Brazil nuts are a healthy food in moderation, but eating a handful of them daily for very long can be toxic.
Our bodies do require overall good nutrition to stay healthy, but that's not the same thing as saying certain individual foods are good/healthy, and others bad/unhealthy. It's not that simplistic. Generally, IMO, the overall composition of one's eating matters, with a variety of ways of combining foods a reasonable way to achieve that. Everything needn't be a "superfood".
As an aside, just out of curiosity, can you give an example of what you mean when you write a "man-made non-nutrient food"? I can maybe think of some man-made non-nutrient ingredients or substances, such as some artificial sweeteners, coloring agents or flavorings, but I can't think of anything that I'd describe as an actual food. For example, fast food and so-called junk food usually contain nutrients . . . maybe not enough nutrients to justify their calories, but that's a little different issue. If "artificial" means "manufactured rather than grown", then I'd say that not all artificial things are necessarily unhealthful.
Don't get me wrong: I think people will tend to get the best health results from eating calorie appropriate amounts of mostly things like meat, fish, grains, veggies, fruits, dairy foods, and that sort of thing, plus choosing quite a variety of those. But having a little candy or a cookie in moderation doesn't wipe out the broccoli or Greek yogurt I ate earlier in the day.
Oh, and by the way the Greek yogurt is a processed food, but quite healthful. The right type even helps the gut health you mention.
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yes - and I agreed those things i n excess will cause issues - but so will anything in excess if it takes you way over appropriate calories or crowds out other nutrition
nobody needs a podcast to understand that.
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I would tend to agree with the initial OP - which I gathered was real food is healthier, and processed foods loaded with all they add in the processing - is likely not as healthy, may cause or increase risk of inflammation and illness/disease
— well, that's my liberal paraphrasing of what I was nodding to as I read the various comments by OP.
-- whether the reference is 'webMD' or elsewhere, seems it is an emerging concept in active discussion.
Just by observation of changes in populations over the last 4 or 5 decades, in the US for my experience, people are fatter and sicker at the same time period people are eating/overeating increasing amounts of processed foods - defined as the junk foods, ultra-processed foods, hyper-palatable foods, and plethora of chemicals added in processing and when growing of the foods.
And it sucks.
So, guess I just tend to agree on the premise from OP.
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The issue really stems from the reality that those of us with chronic illness have heard a neverending stream of "just eat this" or "don't eat that" as though we're just so stupid and must live under a rock, so clearly we haven't heard about x,y, or z being peddled by the chiropractor on youtube who likes to call himself a doctor. Trust me, we've heard it. And trust me, if it would help us, we'd already be doing it.
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So let’s just look at inflammation: it’s currently being touted as the cause of all worldly evils. But it is a necessary part of the body’s function. Sure, too much is not good, but too much growth is not good: too much water is not good: too much food is not good.
What is the point of inflammation? It’s a healing or fighting response. Sprained your wrist? Your body will inflame the area to protect the tissues from further harm. Insect bite? Inflammation as a fighting response. Sore throat? Body’s reaction to an invading virus or bacteria, using defence cells to generate heat and kill the invaders. Itchy scab after scraping your skin? Again, inflammatory response to help it heal, stop infection and produce new skin.
Now, I have an over active immune system as I have asthma and eczema- that’s my body overreacting to “threats”. But the inflammation response is why I recover from colds and viruses, why I heal from injuries, and it’s all part of my body’s defence mechanism.
It’s not evil, it’s not bad - it just needs to be in line with usual defence responses.
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I find the NIH/pubmed -national library of medicine to be a good place to read health studies. Also medline.gov.
WebMD has a bit too much advertising for me.. esp pharmaceuticals which makes me question the writers POV. But that’s me- I’d also rather people read and invest in reading about health online than not.
re the original post about eating poorly and inflammation, I would have liked some clarity and details as well esp since eating “poorly” is defined differently for everyone… but I wasn’t personally triggered by the statement. I think the holistic intent was there.
I think the important delineation regarding inflammation is: While acute inflammation is crucial for healing and recovery, chronic inflammation can lead to a variety of diseases.Anti Inflammation and good gut health is something that is important to me because of multiple family illnesses so I’m probably more invested than most in therapeutic pathways.
Here are a few studies re inflammation that I find neutral and informative:
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From Cleveland Clinic
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thank you for showing me you too do your research about things that you want to understand. No one here is pointing the finger at someone, what works for one person doesn't seem to work for another. Non- nutrient man made foods are foods that take that item out of it's healthiest for. An example would be: an apple is nitrous whole; while an apple pie isn't as healthy.
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a food is the healthiest when it is in it's natural form. It is more nutritious. Although an apple pie does seem more appealing.
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As a generality, I agree with that, though there are some traditional foods that need to be processed to some extent in order to be safe (such as cassava), and others that have better nutrient availability when cooked or extra health benefits when fermented, some that must be cooked in order to be safe, etc.
For myself, though, I'm more concerned about getting good overall nutrition from the totality of what I eat, not as focused on how more or less good/bad individual foods are vs. alternatives to those foods. For example, while I prefer eating mostly whole foods, I don't think it's essential to eat only whole foods.
There are downsides IMO to focusing primarily on individual foods and how natural or beneficial they are. It's possible to eat entirely healthy foods, but not have a healthy overall diet. We need minimums of certain macro- and micronutrients, for example. If the overall diet isn't healthy - doesn't have reasonable amounts of the many essential nutrients - that's still eating poorly, even if a person is eating pure foods in their most natural form.
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While I completely acknowledge that either of these extremes would be silly (though I wouldn't put it past some YouTuber to try) I'd actually be interested in who would be healthier, long term - the person eating their daily maintenance calories in only apples, or the person eating their daily maintenance calories in apple pie…
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Wasn't there a banana girl a while back? I guess the banana vs banana pie argument would apply there!
edit: apparently no: she is not eating pie—you can thank me later for looking it up for you!
"In summary, Freelee the Banana Girl has not switched to eating banana pie; she continues to promote her signature fruit-based, raw-leaning vegan diet, with a focus on whole fruits and added sugar, but not processed desserts"
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