Bodyweight question: Diamond Push-ups

yogicarl

A bodyweight strength training question:

When progressing to the Diamond Push-up, your forearms are angled towards each other and your elbows are winging out to the sides so they are quite exposed to extreme outward pressure in the down phase of the movement and even more so when pushing back up.

I question it's safety from a physiological point of view.

In yoga, we teach/practise Chaturanga Dandasana from Plank with the forearms vertical and the elbows just brush the ribcage on the way down, butt is in one line with the spine to the elbow angle at 90 degrees and back up to Plank. The elbows are better protected from blowing outwards.

In reflection, Chaturanga dandasana is a way deeper more intense contraction of pecs, deltoids and triceps than most bodyweight push-up type movements. I can do 5 x 10 push-ups as a warm up for deeper pushing work, but can only really do 2 x 10 Chaturanga in good form although they look very similar.

Sorry if this sounds like a load of Yoga-jargon - just thought I'd put it out there.

rileysowner

I don't do diamond pushups, but generally with pushups one wants to feel their shoulder blades coming together on the down phase, keeping the elbows in close to the body rather than flaring them out. Most people I see doing them, don't do that, they instead flare the elbows out creating stress throughout the movement that has nothing to do with working the chest, shoulders and arms.

yogicarl

thank you - that has been my finding in both yoga and calisthenics. We often get wrapped up in the number of reps we can do and leave focus on doing fewer repetitions but with deeper concentration of the muscles and correct alignment.

Hezzietiger1

Diamond pushups r more of a tricep exercise.. i say skip em.. and box box dips instead

angiecanon

I'm focusing more on push-up form lately and wanted to see a visual for the yoga push-up you describe. I found this image

http://bit.ly/1aHaUml from shaktitest.bandhayoga.com

I wanted to post a visual in case it helps others, too.

Thanks for posting this topic!

waldo56

Diamond pushups can (should) be done with the elbows tight to the side.

If you plan on progressing to one arm pushups, all pushups should be done with the elbows tight to the sides. As you remove an arm, having the elbow in greatly aids stability.

It is a bit of a myth that diamond pushups are a tricep exercise. Muscle activation studies show that they are harder on the chest than a standard pushup as well.

rybo

I always thought diamonds were supposed to have your elbows tucked to your sides as well?
You can vary the leverage by placing your hands closer to your head, or more towards your belly button.

yogicarl

I found this link interesting as the hands are close together (thumbs almost touching) but the hands do not describe a diamond - more like a close hand push-up:

http://www.trainforstrength.com/ex-5.shtml

- thanks Hezzietiger, but I do find that Diamond Pushups activate the chest more than box or chair dips, which I find are more intense in the triceps. Is that the one you mean?

- thanks for the Chaturanga dandasana link Angie.

kirkor

Your elbows may flare a bit more when doing diamonds, sure, but since it's just bodyweight, it's not as detrimental to the shoulder as it would be if you were flaring your elbows too much in a weighted bench press.

waldo56

The yoga pushup you describe is very similar to a pseudo planche pushup. The main difference is the hand position (forwards-backwards) and the path of travel, in a pseudo planche pushup you should be traveling up and down in a vertical path, not in an arc rotating around the toes.

Yes, that is harder on the chest than a standard or diamond pushup. With the hands not in line with the shoulders it creates a longer lever to the chest.

Pseudo planche pushups are harder still (the top of the pushup is much harder, following an arc instead of up and down makes them a lot easier); you can also split the hands out away from the body and make it harder still (pseudo maltese pushups).

yogicarl

Thanks waldo - as a yoga fanatic, my ideal end point would be the Peacock poses - rather like the Planch push-up. Both movements seem to defy gravity and that's the main attraction for me!

Interesting approach to the Planch positions here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U96geCcNM4k

Yoga Peacock Pose here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZszBHRSaKo

waldo56

Thanks waldo - as a yoga fanatic, my ideal end point would be the Peacock poses - rather like the Planch push-up. Both movements seem to defy gravity and that's the main attraction for me!

Interesting approach to the Planch positions here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U96geCcNM4k

Yoga Peacock Pose here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZszBHRSaKo

In my ticker I'm doing an elbow lever, which is exactly what he shows in that video.

Here is the full picture:


(and no, its really nothing like a planche pushup, planche=straight arms, the top of a planche pushup contains a straight arm lockout, which is much, much, much, much harder than an elbow lever)

yogicarl

Excellent pic above waldo. It is almost identical to the yoga Peacock pose except in Peacock, the elbows are under the torso which gives a fulcrum and is also designed to put pressure on the internal organs to aid waste elimination and stimulate digestion as well as being pretty awesome to achieve.

I guess the planche is further forward over the wrists if the arms are locked out. I am still working on being strong enough to rock over the wrists as in handstand prep.