Pure curiosity for the "cut" guys

egh1974

I've seen a lot of you fellas talking about doing a "cut" or "just coming off of a cut" and I am just curious what you're doing. I assume you are shredding fat and doing something to create more muscle definition. Anyway, just simple curiosity and me being nosey

Chieflrg

It when you lower your carb intake, increase your protein intake to help prevent losing muscle.

Priority is protein, fat, then carbs intake.

egh1974

oh ok, thanks!

jacksonpt

Reduced calories for weight loss.

Sufficient fat and protein intake, along with heavy lifting to maintain muscle.

Weight loss + muscle retention = fat loss... enough fat loss will eventually equal cut/ripped/whatever.

RGv2

With a "bulk" cycle, the end goal is to gain muscle mass. This needs to be done in a caloric surplus. With this surplus, fat is going to come. At the end of the "bulk" cycle is the cut cycle.

At this time the end goal is to drop the fat gained during the bulk while maintaining the muscle mass gained.

egh1974

Wow, very interesting

SoDamnHungry

Just curious since this thread is already here: how long does a cut/bulk cycle normally last? Do you do it for a couple of weeks, or is it months? Or does it depend on the person?

jacksonpt

Just curious since this thread is already here: how long does a cut/bulk cycle normally last? Do you do it for a couple of weeks, or is it months? Or does it depend on the person?

A little bit of both.

There is certainly a lot of personal preference that goes into it, but as RG said above, both cut and bulk cycles have specific purposes, so you have to do them long enough to have a meaningful impact. For example, bulking for 2 weeks won't accomplish much because muscle growth is such a slow process.

InForBacon

It's when you cut your food in small pieces and eat slowly so that digestion is easier and you get full quicker. Helps guys lose weight and put on muscle faster.

JenMc14

Just curious since this thread is already here: how long does a cut/bulk cycle normally last? Do you do it for a couple of weeks, or is it months? Or does it depend on the person?

I depends on the person and their goals, but a bulk isn't going to be very effective for only a couple of weeks. You'll not gain a ton of muscle in just a few weeks.

james6998

With a "bulk" cycle, the end goal is to gain muscle mass. This needs to be done in a caloric surplus. With this surplus, fat is going to come. At the end of the "bulk" cycle is the cut cycle.

At this time the end goal is to drop the fat gained during the bulk while maintaining the muscle mass gained.

Honestly I personally do not believe that you have to be in a caloric surplus to gain muscle. Why? because i have been training with 1900 calories a day base. (without factoring in weight training based on MFP calculator) I have gained almost 3lbs in over 8 weeks and lowered my BF 1.5%. I weigh everything i eat and in order for me to gain muscle i would have to be eating over my daily 1900 calories, not under. I have very high T levels however. I have been consuming around 200 grams of protein and very low carbs, less than 200. Workout 2hr 4 days a week, heavy, with strict form. Who knows i might just be that special snowflake everyone talks about. I don't know the science, just the results.

RGv2

With a "bulk" cycle, the end goal is to gain muscle mass. This needs to be done in a caloric surplus. With this surplus, fat is going to come. At the end of the "bulk" cycle is the cut cycle.

At this time the end goal is to drop the fat gained during the bulk while maintaining the muscle mass gained.

Honestly I personally do not believe that you have to be in a caloric surplus to gain muscle. Why? because i have been training with 1900 calories a day base. (without factoring in weight training based on MFP calculator) I have gained almost 3lbs in over 8 weeks and lowered my BF 1.5%. I weigh everything i eat and in order for me to gain muscle i would have to be eating over my daily 1900 calories, not under. I have very high T levels however. I have been consuming around 200 grams of protein and very low carbs, less than 200. Workout 2hr 4 days a week, heavy, with strict form. Who knows i might just be that special snowflake everyone talks about. I don't know the science, just the results.

And here we go...

And that still doesn't mean what I said about a "cut" is wrong.

jacksonpt

With a "bulk" cycle, the end goal is to gain muscle mass. This needs to be done in a caloric surplus. With this surplus, fat is going to come. At the end of the "bulk" cycle is the cut cycle.

At this time the end goal is to drop the fat gained during the bulk while maintaining the muscle mass gained.

Honestly I personally do not believe that you have to be in a caloric surplus to gain muscle. Why? because i have been training with 1900 calories a day base. (without factoring in weight training based on MFP calculator) I have gained almost 3lbs in over 8 weeks and lowered my BF 1.5%. I weigh everything i eat and in order for me to gain muscle i would have to be eating over my daily 1900 calories, not under. I have very high T levels however. I have been consuming around 200 grams of protein and very low carbs, less than 200. Workout 2hr 4 days a week, heavy, with strict form. Who knows i might just be that special snowflake everyone talks about. I don't know the science, just the results.

I'm not arguing one side or the other, because honestly I'm not sure what I think.

But it does seem like there are 2 camps in regards to building muscle on a deficit. First, you have the people who only believe what's been proved, and they typically subscribe to the idea that it's not possible. Then you have the people who believe based on experience/perception. Some of these people are just plain wrong because what they think is happening isn't what's actually happening. But some people in this group do know what's going on, are smart and well-versed on the subject, and who simply can't ignore what they are seeing happen personally or with their clients.

The more I read and the more people I talk to and the more I lift, the more I think the "can't build on a deficit" is an outdated stance.

But that's just me.

.

erickirb

Most people that gain weight on a deficit, are actually in a surplus they just calculated intake or output incorrectly.
Even if it were possible to gain muscle on a deficit, you still couldn't gain weight, unless it is water weight due to the muscles storing more

jacquejl

Just curious myself......when you say you gained almost 3lbs of muscle in 8 weeks, how do you measure that? It sounds so precise, but how do you know it's muscle vs fat vs water etc...and how do you know exactly how much was gained?

ILoveBreakfast671

I need to get more cut, but shirtless season is over. Time to get fat again... Sighhh...

james6998

Just curious myself......when you say you gained almost 3lbs of muscle in 8 weeks, how do you measure that? It sounds so precise, but how do you know it's muscle vs fat vs water etc...and how do you know exactly how much was gained?

DEXA is "dual energy X-ray absorpitometry" -- the same imaging technology doctors use to measure bone density to determine osteoporosis risk, explains Bryant. During the test, you lie on an X-ray table for about 10 minutes while the scanner measures your body fat, muscle, and bone mineral density.

Based on the before and after of this test, 8 weeks apart, doctor came to his calculations. Personally i don't give a rats *kitten* on what #s are, i just base my findings on what i see in the mirror.
http://www-scf.usc.edu/~uscience/exercise_science.html
Honestly myself, i am not totally convinced yet that a surplus is needed to grow in muscle density. Protein, carbs, various other factors, not calories is what is believed to be responsible for building muscle. Muscle growth is a result of what is being fed to them, not the amount that is being fed. Muscles don't grow with simply adding calories to your diet. Let me put it this way. I will keep doing what works for me and let the results show for themselves. Sue me, i like to think outside of the box.

jacquejl

I was just curious how you measured that. I started lifting heavy 7 weeks ago and a few weeks ago I bougt a smart scale. I haven't lost weight, but my % of body fat has gone down 3%....according to the scale. I just don't know whether or not to trust the scale so I was curious how you measured something like that. I don't eat any more than before.....if anything I eat a bit less, but only b/c I don't have the same cravings for sweets I used to. I'm down a pant size in the first 5 weeks and now they are getting a bit loose. Ultimately, I know what I am doing is working, I was just curious more about the science behind it.

Thanks!!

james6998

This really got me thinking about something with building muscle. If you think about it, as long as you have the proper ingredients to build muscle, why would you need a surplus of calories. We know that 3500 calories roughly translates into 1lb of fat.

How many calories do you need to build a pound of muscle?

Simple question this one. Everyone knows that a pound of fat contains 3,500 calories, so if you want to add a pound of muscle, you’ve got to eat at least 3,500 extra calories. Right? Wrong.



This is the first comment usually chucked out on bodybuilding.com, and it’s wrong for several reasons. A pound of muscle doesn’t contain fat. Sure, there’s a little bit of fat stored within the muscles (called intramuscular fat, it’s why Wagyu beef is so damn tasty), but the predominant contents of muscle are water (70%), protein (22%) and trace amounts of carbohydrates, fat and minerals. So given that water has zero calories, and protein has 4 calories per gram, that should mean we need only around 400 calories (of protein) to build that pound of muscle. Chuck in some fat and carbs and we’re up to around 800 calories. IS that all it takes? NO! That’s another simplistic way of looking at muscle building, and it’s all wrong too.



FACT: The energy contained in muscle is not the same as the energy it takes to build muscle

This is the most commonly overlooked element of the puzzle above. If we want to “build” a pound of fat, do we just have to eat a pound of butter? Or does it “cost” energy to take that pound of butter and turn it into another notch on your belt buckle? Similarly why can’t we just eat a pound of another animal’s muscle and turn that into a pound of our own? Let’s take a deeper look.
The Seven Fundamental Questions for a One Pound Muscle Mass Gain

1.) How much energy is contained in one pound of muscle

2.) Can we use energy already ‘stored’ inside the body as fat to build muscle?

3.) How much energy does it cost to break that fat down and turn it into useful fuel for muscle growth?

4.) How much energy does it cost to break down the food we eat and turn that into a pound of muscle?

5.) How will we know whether this over-eating will result in muscle gain or fat gain?

6.) Can we actually measure whether we’ve build a pound of muscle or a pound of something else entirely?

7.) How many calories do you need to build that pound of muscle?

Question 1. How much energy is contained in one pound of muscle?
This one is simple – we looked at it above. 800 calories is as good an estimate as any (note that different muscle tissues will have different calorie levels). Building a pound of bicep muscle is not the same as building a pound of heart muscle. But as we’ve discussed above that isn’t the whole story. It obviously costs more calories to build the muscle than the muscle actually contains.



Question 2. Can we use energy already stored in the body as fat to build muscle?
That would be lovely, wouldn’t it? Pop to the gym. Do your workout. Don’t eat anything. Watch as a pound of your unsightly gut suddenly shifts into rock hard muscle.



It would also be lovely if my next door neighbour’s cat crapped gold nuggets on my lawn rather than cat *kitten*. Sadly it’s not going to happen.



The reason it doesn’t work is because your body is not good at making protein out of fat and carbohydrates. Protein is an essential nutrient – this means we have to eat protein in our diet in order to survive. We can’t eat something else then make it into protein ourselves. So the fat in your fat cells can’t turn into protein in your muscles.



But it CAN supply you with energy, and if you do your training, eating and nutrient cycling right then you can use fat from your fat cells for fuel on rest days and gain muscle (through overeating) on training days. That’s the principle behind my Lean Mass Gains Made Easy protocols, and it IS possible to build muscle whilst losing fat if you’re in the “Body Recomposition” category (between 10 and 15% body fat). cont'd
here.
http://leanmassgains.com/the-7-fundamental-questions-for-a-one-pound-muscle-mass-gain

jacquejl

That's alot to think about.....thanks!!