Strength training routine opinion needed

Abram86

Ill list my current routine and y'all can answer with an opinion. I'm trying to find the best routine.

Monday-Biceps and Back
Tuesdays- Shoulders and legs
Wed-Chest and triceps
Thursday - Off
Friday- Biceps, Back and shoulder
Sat- chest triceps and legs
Sun- off

Abram86

Anyone?

Abram86

I forgot to mention I do 15 minutes of HIIT cardio on Monday, Tues, Wed, Fri

Cherimoose

That's an old-school bodybuilder's split routine. The problem is that it doesn't simulate how our body is used in the real world - using multiple muscle groups at the same time. So it's not as functional as a full-body workout. Also 3-day splits have more potential to overwork each muscle group, increasing the chance of joint and muscle injuries. With a full-body workout, you do fewer sets for each body part, so your form won't deteriorate as much as a split workout with lots of sets.
Since your goal is fat loss and general conditioning, i would do a full-body workout every 2-3 days. A typical workout would be something like:

4 sets of legs
3 sets of chest
3 upper back
2 shoulders
1 arms
1 core

Most of the sets should be compound movements (2+ joints), not isolation exercises (1 joint, like curls).

Makes sense?

jrutledge01

check out starting strength or stronglifts - they are great for building strength with compound lifts (squat, press, bench press, deadlift, pullup, power clean, etc)

ChrisLindsay9

Your split looks pretty conventional. There's nothing totally odd or goofy with it. It looks like you're trying to hit each muscle group twice, but still have two rest days? I'm not much of a muscle split person anymore, but I think it looks reasonable.

If you're looking for more elaborate feedback, maybe provide some examples of the exercises you're doing on those days. That is, are you doing squats one leg day, and deadlifts on the other leg day? Or are you doing heavy singles/doubles/triples on one day and dynamic 10-12 rep sets the other? Are you benching on both chest days, or is one a press day, the other flye day?

If you want to add any details about current goals or desired outcome, that might be helpful as well.

Do you do HIIT cardio before or after?

Congrats on the transformation though, you're looking pretty solid.

FizikallyFit

These are some great links, that helped me understand why compound lifts are more beneficial then isolation workouts and also had some beginner/intermediate routines. But like the guys above say you can definitely look into strong lifts, there are some groups here to help you with that

http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/10/13/simplify/

http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2010/10/11/the-beginners-guide-to-building-muscle-and-strength/

http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2012/06/25/super-hero-muscle/

patrickfish7

Compound moves like deadlifts and squats stimulate the most muscle growth. Its well known that leg workouts stimulate test which helps out on the rest of the upper body. As said previously, we need individual breakdown of reps, sets etc.

I tend to do 3 x full body workouts per week, alternating Cardio on the days between with Saturday being my rest day and even then, I'll go for a walk. I don't subscribe to the 'must do this many/that many' as your body will respond in its own unique way. Because I'm a natural runners build (no shoulders etc) and do a lot of running with it, I find deadlifts are the best for core functional strength, with additional size on the upper body for driving power. Squats help me for the obvious leg and back strength.

There are tonnes of variations including negatives, rest pause, drop sets...I could go on. Even though I'm not a bodybuilder, I use Bodybuilding.com quite a lot as there's a heap of information on there about strength training, plans etc.

Abram86

Your split looks pretty conventional. There's nothing totally odd or goofy with it. It looks like you're trying to hit each muscle group twice, but still have two rest days? I'm not much of a muscle split person anymore, but I think it looks reasonable.

If you're looking for more elaborate feedback, maybe provide some examples of the exercises you're doing on those days. That is, are you doing squats one leg day, and deadlifts on the other leg day? Or are you doing heavy singles/doubles/triples on one day and dynamic 10-12 rep sets the other? Are you benching on both chest days, or is one a press day, the other flye day?

If you want to add any details about current goals or desired outcome, that might be helpful as well.

Do you do HIIT cardio before or after?

Congrats on the transformation though, you're looking pretty solid.

First of all thanks for the compliment. I do cardio after strength training. I'm looking to build muscle mass as my main goal as of right now.
I do 3 to 4 sets of 10-12 reps on the majoritt
Mondays I do dumbbells curls x4 set 10-12 reps, barbell preacher curls, close grip cable curls, reverse later pulldowns
Tues I do front dumbbells raise, standing dumbbell shoulder press x4 sets, side latteral raises, leg press, hack squats and leg extensions
Weds I do dumbbell bench press and incline press, incline pec fly, machine chest press, triceps pulldown, machine triceps extensions, over head dumbbells extension
Fri I do Bicep curls, hammer curls, cable rows, reverse later pulldowns, preacher and single arm dumbbell rows
SAT shoulder press, front dumbbell raise, seated calf raise, leg press, hack squats and leg extension. Also triceps pulldowns

grantdumas7

Okay I will throw my split into the mix. It's an lower/upper, legs/push/pull

Day 1 lower power/strength
Day 2 upper/power/strength
Day3 rest
Day 4 legs hypertrophy
Day 5 push hypertrophy
Day 6 pull hypertrophy
The days don't have to be set up like that. I re-started this split on a Saturday after a deload/ a couple of days off. So now it looks like this
Day 1 legs hyper
Day 2 push hyper
Day 3 Pull hyper
Day 4 Rest
Day 5 legs power
Day 6 push power

FrnkLft

I like that you're hitting things twice a week, that's great and it's optimal. Doing less is common, and it works, but it's not the most efficient way to train.

If I had any criticism, it would be all the isolation. Volume is a key factor in determining growth potential, but you could be so much more efficient if you incorporated more compound movements into your routine, even for the accessory work.

Grant's ^^ setup is another common one that I ran for about 5 months, and it's a good split too. I would argue that it's better than your setup, since he has the power/strength days and the classic hypertrophy days, all of which are more focused than your setup. That's a preference thing though, if your routine makes sense to you and it's enjoyable to carry out, you'll do fine and make your gains.

I would be remise if I didn't share my own routine. I have since moved from Grant's ^^ setup to the following protocol, with compound movements as the foundation, and as much compound assessory work as possible to hit what I wanted to hit, and still keep things strong and efficient. It's actually the same volume, just a 4 day split to allow for more rest.

Wendler's 5/3/1 program, BBB Template 2, Var 2 (from Beyond 5/3/1)

Day1: Bench 5/3/1 & Press 5x10
+ Dips, Laterals, Incline BB, Curls

Day 2: Deadlift 5/3/1 & Squat 5x10
+ DB Row/Chins, DB Shrugs, Calf Raises, Cable Crunch

Rest

Day 3: Press 5/3/1 - Bench 5x10
+ Dips, Laterals, Incline BB, Curls

Rest

Day 4: Squat 5/3/1 - SL Deadlift 5x10
+ DB Row/Chins, DB Shrugs, Calf Raises, Cable Crunch

Rest

DavPul

Ill list my current routine and y'all can answer with an opinion. I'm trying to find the best routine.

Monday-Biceps and Back
Tuesdays- Shoulders and legs
Wed-Chest and triceps
Thursday - Off
Friday- Biceps, Back and shoulder
Sat- chest triceps and legs
Sun- off

this is a list of body parts, not a routine. not sure how to critique a list of body parts

Abram86

Ill list my current routine and y'all can answer with an opinion. I'm trying to find the best routine.

Monday-Biceps and Back
Tuesdays- Shoulders and legs
Wed-Chest and triceps
Thursday - Off
Friday- Biceps, Back and shoulder
Sat- chest triceps and legs
Sun- off

this is a list of body parts, not a routine. not sure how to critique a list of body parts

I know but I replied with the routines

Rayman79

I think recommending a program is very difficult without knowing things like:
How long have you been training (consistently) for?
What are your current numbers (what can you lift)
How many days a week would you ideally like to be training?
What is your current goal (fat loss, hypertrophy, strength)?
Do you have any limitations/injuries you need to work around?

Suggesting anything without taking this stuff into consideration will just be a generic response (which on MFP usually either ends in suggesting SS, SL5X5, AllPro's or 5/3/1)

izWHATitIz

First as Rayman said there are many other factors to take in consideration as the stuff he listed including diet #1. Without the proper nutrition unless you have crazy genetics your gains/development is going to suffer.

Second of all there is no one best routine for anyone and what ever you do don't turn to these fitness magazines to grab the routine of the month that will change next month so they have something to publish. Always remember these guys get paid to write these articles as do the guys doing them. I also would say the at least 80% of these guys are on gear.

And last you should should sit down and evaluate everything you are doing to acheive your fitness goals or at least if your not seeing what you think you should be. Everything from sleep time to any types of stress in your life. My suggestion would be to start a journal and record in it for 6 weeks everything throughout the day if you have time of course. But definately recourd your nutrition (what and how much), your workouts (how you felt during and after), oddities throughout the day that put stress on you (mentally and physically), sleep patterns, etc.

Elliot Hulse from Strength Camp made a great statement in a recent video. He said to take an close your eyes, pick one of the progarms out there and what ever program you pick stick with it for no less than a year and if it's not working by then choose another.

But as far as you current split, I would move shoulders to Chest and Tri days since that muscle group gets stimulated on this day anyways. I like to give legs their own day just so I can ensure I work them as hard as I can (just my thing). And as everyone else has said COMPOUND movements are important. Limit your routine to 2 iso movements per group. The important thing with weight training is time under tension. This is what stimulates the micro tears in the muscle to allow it to grow.

If you want to take the time and include all the other items like what Rayman posted I'm sure the group and colabratively help you reach success.

StrictlyPro

Ill list my current routine and y'all can answer with an opinion. I'm trying to find the best routine.

Monday-Biceps and Back
Tuesdays- Shoulders and legs
Wed-Chest and triceps
Thursday - Off
Friday- Biceps, Back and shoulder
Sat- chest triceps and legs
Sun- off

this is a list of body parts, not a routine. not sure how to critique a list of body parts

you forgot the list of days part. it goes something more like "this is not a routine. it is just a list of days and bodyparts"


i agree with dropping the current routine and starting with a good 3 day full body or at least 4 day upper\lower centered around core compound movements.

Capt_Apollo

you're not listing any type of routine. just days of the week and body parts.

exercises? target zones? sets and reps?

AlsDonkBoxSquat

depending on your goals I really like this rountine: http://www.simplyshredded.com/mega-feature-layne-norton-training-series-full-powerhypertrophy-routine-updated-2011.html

Day 1: Upper Body Power Day
•Pulling Power Movement: Bent over or Pendlay rows
3 sets of 3-5 reps
•Assistance Pulling movement: Weighted Pull ups
2 sets of 6-10 reps
•Auxiliary Pulling movement: Rack chins
2 sets of 6-10 reps
•Pressing Power Movement: Flat dumbbell presses
3 sets of 3-5 reps
•Assistance pressing movement: Weighted dips
2 sets of 6-10 reps
•Assistance pressing movement: Seated dumbbell shoulder presses
3 sets of 6-10 reps
•Auxiliary curling movement: Cambered bar curls
3 sets of 6-10 reps
•Auxiliary extension movement: Skull crushers
3 sets of 6-10 reps

Day 2: Lower Body Power Day
•Pressing Power Movement: Squats
3 sets of 3-5 reps
•Assistance pressing movement: Hack Squats
2 sets of 6-10 reps
•Assistance extension movement: Leg extensions
2 sets of 6-10 reps
•Assistance pulling movement: Stiff legged deadlifts
3 sets of 5-8 reps
•Assistance pulling/curling movement: Glute ham raises or lying leg curls
2 sets of 6-10 reps
•Auxiliary calf movement: Standing calf raise
3 sets of 6-10 reps
•Auxiliary calf movement: Seated calf raise
2 sets of 6-10 reps

Day 3: Rest

Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy Day
•Pulling Power Exercise speed work: Bent over or Pendlay rows
6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
•Hypertrophy pulling movement: Rack chins
3 sets of 8-12 reps
•Hypertrophy pulling movement: Seated cable row
3 sets of 8-12 reps
•Hypertrophy pulling movement: Dumbbell rows or shrugs bracing upper body against an incline bench
2 sets of 12-15 reps
•Hypertrophy pulling movement: Close grip pulldowns
2 sets of 15-20 reps
•Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Seated dumbbell presses
3 sets of 8-12 reps
•Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Upright rows
2 sets of 12-15 reps
•Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Side lateral raises with dumbbells or cables
3 sets of 12-20 reps

Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy Day
•Lower Body Power Exercise speed work: Squats
6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
•Hypertrophy pressing movement: Hack squats
3 sets of 8-12 reps
•Hypertrophy pressing movement: Leg presses
2 sets of 12-15 reps
•Hypertrophy extension movement: Leg extensions
3 sets of 15-20 reps
•Hypertrophy pulling movement: Romanian deadlifts
3 sets of 8-12 reps
•Hypertrophy curling movement: Lying leg curls
2 sets of 12-15 reps
•Hypertrophy curling movement: Seated leg curls
2 sets of 15-20 reps
•Hypertrophy calf movement: Donkey calf raises
4 sets of 10-15 reps
•Hypertrophy calf movement: Seated calf raises
3 sets of 15-20 reps

Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy Day
•Pressing Power Exercise speed work: Flat dumbbell presses
6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
•Hypertrophy pressing movement: Incline dumbbell presses
3 sets of 8-12 reps
•Hypertrophy pressing movement: Hammer strength chest press
3 sets of 12-15 reps
•Hypertrophy fly movement: Incline cable flyes
2 sets of 15-20 reps
•Hypertrophy curling exercise: Cambered bar preacher curls
3 sets of 8-12 reps
•Hypertrophy curling exercise: Dumbbell concentration curls
2 sets of 12-15 reps
•Hypertrophy curling exercise: Spider curls bracing upper body against an incline bench
2 sets of 15-20 reps
•Hypertrophy extension exercise: Seated tricep extension with cambered bar
3 sets of 8-12 reps
•Hypertrophy extension exercise: Cable pressdowns with rope attachment
2 sets of 12-15 reps
•Hypertrophy extension exercise: Cable kickbacks
2 sets of 15-20 reps

Day 7: Rest - "Keep in mind this workout would be for someone who is relatively adapted to higher frequency and volume, so you may want to cut out an assistance/auxiliary exercise on each day to start until your body adapts."

Abram86

Thanks to everyone who has answered! I do not have any injuries or limitations.
Here are my current numbers and goal. My main goal is to put on as much size as I can with minimal fat gains.

I've been lifting since Jan 2013 and i wasn't doing it to my full potential as I was more into weight loss at the time. Since I've been bulking I've gained strengtth this past month.

Barbell bench press: started at 10x 130 and now at 10 reps 155lbs
Dumbbell curls: started 10x25 now at 12x35lbs
reverse later pulldown: started 10x85lbs now 12x110lbs
Triceps pulldown: 12x75lbs now 12x90lbs
Machine pec flys: 12x145lbs now 12x170lbs

As you can see I've gained strength so far
I'm gonna start doing shoulders on Chest day.

FrnkLft

Cool man, so now you've got your split... you need a plan too if you're going to make consistent gains (gains when you're just starting are easy and inevitable). Without a program, you're just going to feel it out in the gym and waste time. More likely than not once you hit a wall you're going to be left wondering where your gains are at and where to go.

Also... you just posted gains on chest flys and curls... the only compound movement that you mentioned was the bench press. You're going to find that most people don't give a damn about your flys or curls, they care about your bench, press, squat, and deadlift. Everything else is just meant to compliment those fundamental big movements.

For example, I haven't made ANY progress on my curls, but in the past 16 weeks my arms have grown a half inch while cutting.

Bench: +40 lbs
Press: +45 lbs
Deadlift: +75 lbs
Squat: +10 lbs (my form got better; going lower now and had to re-adjust, would have been about +45 lbs otherwise)

I started lifting in November btw.

These are excellent programs (In order of best to less best IMO)

- Wendler 5/3/1
- Stronglifts 5x5
- Starting Strength

They all have built in progression (with the exception of starting strength I believe...), which is very important in any serious lifter's routine. I include Starting Strength anyhow because it's still a great program, and all of these programs focus on the big lifts, leaving the flys and curls to assesory work where they should be for anyone whose not roiding.

Never met a man with big legs and no squat, big pecs and no bench, big arms and no row, or strong back and no deadlift.

I_mustacheU4pancakes

You should look up starting strength,strong lifts,or ice cream fitness 5x5
As these are all good for beginners and are structured around compound lifts.
More isn't always better. Its better to do compound lifts over isolation so that you work
More muscles at once and recruit more fibers,and more effectively break down muscles.
Squats,bench press, overhead press, power clean,rows,deadlifts,pull ups,chin ups,
Dips are all awesome. Mainly squats and deadlifts though!
Look up a structured program and make sure it had progressive overload.
If you're not adding weight then you're not getting stronger.

StrictlyPro

SS does have the same standard linear progression scheme. For a novice looking to gain size I would suggest something with a bit more volume like SL, ICF, Allpro's, or this super quick novice routine

Alternate A and B routines 3 non consecutive days per week. (Ex. Mon\Wed\Fri, week one ABA week 2 BAB, etc.)

A routine
Mandatory:

Squat 3x8

Superset
Standing barbell press 3x8
Chins 3xfail\3x8 weighted or assisted\lat pull downs 3x8

Optional:

Superset
Any curl 2-10-12
Lying tricep extension 2-10-12

Superset
Calf press 3x12-15
abs 3x10-12

B routine
Mandatory:

Deadlift 1x8

Superset
Bench press 3x8
Barbell Row 3x8

Optional:

Giant set
Shoulder side raise 3x10-12
Face pulls 3x10-12
Shrugs 3x10-12

Superset
Calf press 3x12-15
abs 3x10-12

Do at least one warmup set for each compound lift with 8 reps at 50% workset weight. An additional warmup with a bit more weight and less reps might be nice. Something like 4 reps at 75% of workset weight.

Find your 8 rep maxes for each lift and start at 20% less than that. Ex. If 135 is the absolute most weight you can bench for 8 reps, start at .8*135=105 and work up from there.

Add 10lbs to deadlifts every workout, 5lbs to squats every workout, 2.5-5lbs to bench, rows, and standing press every workout. Progress on chin-ups as best you can. If you do any optional lifts, add weight\reps as often as you can. I would hold off on adding any of the optional lifts for 2-3 months. Without optional lifts added, each routine should last a bit under 30 minutes.

Rest 90-120 seconds between sets of squats. Rest 30-60 seconds between each exercise on supersets. If you do the full giant set on B routine, probably little to no rest at all between sets.

Eat at least 1g protein and .45g fat per lb of your lean body mass (total weight minus fat weight). Fill the rest of your calories with whatever, but plenty of carbs. Order a digital food scale from amazon.com Track food on myfitnesspal.com website and\or phone app. Eat to gain 3-4lbs\month for ~3 months then drop back to gaining 2-2.5lbs\month from there.

Rayman79

You should look up starting strength,strong lifts,or ice cream fitness 5x5 as these are all good for beginners and are structured around compound lifts.
More isn't always better. Its better to do compound lifts over isolation.
Squats, bench press, overhead press, power clean, rows,deadlifts, pull ups,chin ups, [dips]

Some good advice in the previous couple of posts. I've picked out the most important points for you from l_mustache's post to reinforce. You are still a beginner lifter, which is not a criticism at all, but you have some good progression still to be made on a full body or higher volume program such as the ones listed above.

I have no doubt you have gained strength, but its a concern when you are detailing your strength gains on small movements, when the focus should be on big compound lifts (squat, DL, bench, OHP) as frklft said.

Programs such as the PHAT which has been listed a couple of times in this thread, will not have enough volume to see you progress as quickly as you should.

Pick a solid program from the above, eat a little over TDEE (10-20%), and get ready for the gainz! :bigsmile:

grantdumas7

You should look up starting strength,strong lifts,or ice cream fitness 5x5 as these are all good for beginners and are structured around compound lifts.
More isn't always better. Its better to do compound lifts over isolation.
Squats, bench press, overhead press, power clean, rows,deadlifts, pull ups,chin ups, [dips]

Some good advice in the previous couple of posts. I've picked out the most important points for you from l_mustache's post to reinforce. You are still a beginner lifter, which is not a criticism at all, but you have some good progression still to be made on a full body or higher volume program such as the ones listed above.

I have no doubt you have gained strength, but its a concern when you are detailing your strength gains on small movements, when the focus should be on big compound lifts (squat, DL, bench, OHP) as frklft said.

Programs such as the PHAT which has been listed a couple of times in this thread, will not have enough volume to see you progress as quickly as you should.

Pick a solid program from the above, eat a little over TDEE (10-20%), and get ready for the gainz! :bigsmile:

PHAT is higher in volume than ICF 5x5, stronglifts or starting strength. PHAT doesn't hit squats, deads and presses as frequent as those.

alyhuggan

Compounds are better than isolations? Please do go tell that to every contender in Mr Olympia and every famous bodybuilder...ever. Chris Jones has one of the most impressive natural backs I have ever seen and he rarely deadlifts?

Not saying compounds are useless, I do plenty of compounds and aim for less reps than isolations but you need the best of both. Although if you are training just for strength compounds would be your best option.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person that likes to hit legs more than once a week though, similar to my split except mines 6 days a week, don't see anything wrong with it:)

Rayman79

Compounds are better than isolations? Please do go tell that to every contender in Mr Olympia and every famous bodybuilder...ever. Chris Jones has one of the most impressive natural backs I have ever seen and he rarely deadlifts?

If you have 3 hours a day and a butt-load of steroids to train like mr Olympia then you might have an argument. If you are joe average with a few hours per week in which to train it's about making the most of your time and effort.

Grant I take your point on phat, I should have been more specific in saying that that most novices trainees benefit from hitting the same muscle groups more frequently, and also a better 'bang for buck' considering most peoples limited training time.