France bans Beauty Pageants...

VeganLexi

Good.

_Zardoz_

not a thing I say very often but well done France

sub10orbust

lol

neandermagnon

if the child beauty pageants in France are anything like the beauty pageants for kids in US, then good for them. No more of old fat moms pushing their kids with makeup and surgery to become what they couldn't.

I find it odd that this is coming from the same country that banned hijab.

^^^ all of this.

EvgeniZyntx

if the child beauty pageants in France are anything like the beauty pageants for kids in US, then good for them. No more of old fat moms pushing their kids with makeup and surgery to become what they couldn't.

I find it odd that this is coming from the same country that banned hijab.

^^^ all of this.

None of this, respectfully.

Beauty pageants in France are a tiny phenomenon mostly ignored by us. Not one of my daughters knows of a friend who knows of a friend ... Nope, sorry no. It isn't for the senate to ban this or that practice of representation an criminalize with jail time. We already have sufficient laws to cover some of the practices and pageants already fell within a very strict framework. This is just more laws and very subtle and safe culture bashing. I hope it gets overturned in the CC.

As to the hijab ban - it's very similar. An overly concerned cultural ban based on protecting the citizen from him/herself by eroding fundamental rights of self determination and to manifest religious observance. I weep for the country I was born in - the nation that saw to the birth of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights so easily tread on Article 18.

And in both cases this concerns less than a very very small minority.

YaGigi

Bravo.

No one in France does children beauty pageants. It's not supported by the public, it's not respectful to have their kids at those pageants. It's ridiculous to make babies look like adult women.

Regarding the ban on cover, it's only on the cover of the face like niqab. Which is NOT a requirement by Islam. Often women in Saudi Arabia don't wear it. Covering hair is legal.

EvgeniZyntx

Bravo.

No one in France does children beauty pageants. It's not supported by the public, it's not respectful to have their kids at those pageants. It's ridiculous to make babies look like adult women.

Regarding the ban on cover, it's only on the cover of the face like niqab. Which is NOT a requirement by Islam. Often women in Saudi Arabia don't wear it. Covering hair is legal.

No, covering hair in school or in a public office is not legal. My 10 year old has been told she cannot wear a scarf on her head in her school. We are not Muslim.

And it isn't just the niqab but the hijab also.

Here - a little background.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_scarf_controversy_in_France

Dark_Roast

I'm worried about the tarantula on that child's chest...

That's the first thing I thought when I saw that pic. :Shudder:

YaGigi

Bravo.

No one in France does children beauty pageants. It's not supported by the public, it's not respectful to have their kids at those pageants. It's ridiculous to make babies look like adult women.

Regarding the ban on cover, it's only on the cover of the face like niqab. Which is NOT a requirement by Islam. Often women in Saudi Arabia don't wear it. Covering hair is legal.

No, covering hair in school or in a public office is not legal. My 10 year old has been told she cannot wear a scarf on her head in her school. We are not Muslim.

And it isn't just the niqab but the hijab also.

Here - a little background.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_scarf_controversy_in_France

As a Muslim woman living in France and Switzerland I support that law - I'd hate to see these beautiful countries becoming extremely religious. And I like that its not regarding Islam only, it's about all religions.

I don't think its too strict, it just provides certain limitations - governmental offices and schools are not a place to declare religion values, there are churches, mosques and sinagoges for that.
There are still so many Saudis walking around Paris all covered up. Before Ramadan Paris looks like Dubai.

EvgeniZyntx

Bravo.

No one in France does children beauty pageants. It's not supported by the public, it's not respectful to have their kids at those pageants. It's ridiculous to make babies look like adult women.

Regarding the ban on cover, it's only on the cover of the face like niqab. Which is NOT a requirement by Islam. Often women in Saudi Arabia don't wear it. Covering hair is legal.

No, covering hair in school or in a public office is not legal. My 10 year old has been told she cannot wear a scarf on her head in her school. We are not Muslim.

And it isn't just the niqab but the hijab also.

Here - a little background.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_scarf_controversy_in_France

As a Muslim woman living in France and Switzerland I support that law - I'd hate to see these beautiful countries becoming extremely religious. And I like that its not regarding Islam only, it's about all religions.

I don't think its too strict, it just provides certain limitations - governmental offices and schools are not a place to declare religion values, there are churches, mosques and sinagoges for that.
There are still so many Saudis walking around Paris all covered up. Before Ramadan Paris looks like Dubai.

Just wow. France/Switzerland would be less beautiful if religious people walked around?


Well, as a "something or other" male living in France and Germany, I believe that it's a personal religious choice - I am not for niqab or religious dress, per se. But I consider it a personal choice. As to your exaggerations - clearly Paris is not France. There are very few niqab in Paris in general and they are breaking a law - that it isn't being enforced just shows, once again the silliness of another social law. BTW, I was in Dubai last year - and it's highly unlikely that Paris will ever look like Dubai. And if it does? So what. Religious freedom is a thing.

Should Orthodox Jewish women not be allowed to cover there heads, should Christians not be allowed to wear crosses in school? Because if you take the reasonable logical step of your statement concerning the declaration of religious values then my daughters teachers should not be wearing a cross around their neck. And yet... freedom for some is not freedom for all with this law.

Let's face it - this "centrist" attitude by that past government was playing into the xenophobic fears to vote grab. The niqab concerned less than 1% of the population.

You say you'd "hate to see the coutries become extremely religious" but isn't a persons religion their own damn business. So much for some basic French principles.

taunto

As a Muslim woman living in France and Switzerland I support that law - I'd hate to see these beautiful countries becoming extremely religious. And I like that its not regarding Islam only, it's about all religions.

Wearing a Hijab is extreme? How exactly? Are you suggesting that any Muslim following and, by their own choice, wearing what they wish but isn't a part of others religion, being an extremist? Sorry but not every Muslim girl following her religion is an "extremist".

I don't think its too strict, it just provides certain limitations - governmental offices and schools are not a place to declare religion values, there are churches, mosques and sinagoges for that.

So the Government can dictate what Muslims can and cannot wear. How is wearing a Hijab declaring a religious value btw? I mean when I lived in US and saw the hessidic Jews wearing their yamicas etc (sorry for spelling) I didn't thought "damn those jews, they're trying to force their religious values on me!". No. They got their believes and they use it. Whats wrong with it?

There are still so many Saudis walking around Paris all covered up. Before Ramadan Paris looks like Dubai.

There are so many non arabs walking around Dubai that it looks like Europe. Whats your point?

taunto

if the child beauty pageants in France are anything like the beauty pageants for kids in US, then good for them. No more of old fat moms pushing their kids with makeup and surgery to become what they couldn't.

I find it odd that this is coming from the same country that banned hijab.

^^^ all of this.

None of this, respectfully.

Beauty pageants in France are a tiny phenomenon mostly ignored by us. Not one of my daughters knows of a friend who knows of a friend ... Nope, sorry no. It isn't for the senate to ban this or that practice of representation an criminalize with jail time. We already have sufficient laws to cover some of the practices and pageants already fell within a very strict framework. This is just more laws and very subtle and safe culture bashing. I hope it gets overturned in the CC.

As to the hijab ban - it's very similar. An overly concerned cultural ban based on protecting the citizen from him/herself by eroding fundamental rights of self determination and to manifest religious observance. I weep for the country I was born in - the nation that saw to the birth of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights so easily tread on Article 18.

And in both cases this concerns less than a very very small minority.

That was a very valid point sir. However, the main point of child pageants getting banned (in my POV) isn't so much about getting sexualized as it is more with the nutjob parents who take it too far. If you see any of the reality shows regarding these you would instantly know that. But I do get the point that Government doesn't have a place in that. Its more to do with bad parenting and that can be seen in any field. Even regular academics where parents put too much pressure on the kids.

Bernadette60614

That's a step in the right direction.

I think about how much of my life I've spent defining my worth by my appearance adhering to a certain standard (in my life it has gone from petite, doll like blonde to tall, cut, athletic)...never meeting those standards and it seems like such a waste of emotional and physical energy.

TheSlorax

As a Muslim woman living in France and Switzerland I support that law - I'd hate to see these beautiful countries becoming extremely religious. And I like that its not regarding Islam only, it's about all religions.

Wearing a Hijab is extreme? How exactly? Are you suggesting that any Muslim following and, by their own choice, wearing what they wish but isn't a part of others religion, being an extremist? Sorry but not every Muslim girl following her religion is an "extremist".

I don't think its too strict, it just provides certain limitations - governmental offices and schools are not a place to declare religion values, there are churches, mosques and sinagoges for that.

So the Government can dictate what Muslims can and cannot wear. How is wearing a Hijab declaring a religious value btw? I mean when I lived in US and saw the hessidic Jews wearing their yamicas etc (sorry for spelling) I didn't thought "damn those jews, they're trying to force their religious values on me!". No. They got their believes and they use it. Whats wrong with it?

There are still so many Saudis walking around Paris all covered up. Before Ramadan Paris looks like Dubai.

There are so many non arabs walking around Dubai that it looks like Europe. Whats your point?

+1 to everything.

To add.... Hijab, save for in countries under sharia law, is not required to be worn by any woman. It is a choice she makes based on her personal beliefs and convictions. In its purest form hijab is meant for respect to Allah so he does not have to look down on your head (if you notice, many Muslim men also choose to wear head coverings - the turban or imamah). Jewish men also wear the yarmulke to show respect to God.

treesloth

I'm not sure about banning them, but child beauty pageants are creepy. My skin is crawling, uggh, get me out of this room creepy. And wrong.

Fitzilla666

Ohlala you're taking it too far! stop over thinking about religion you'll feel better! The main topic was about beauty pageants...

(Et Evgeni j'esère que tu parles français XD je suis d'accord avec toi sur le port de la croix. Logiquement l'école française est laïque d'où l'interdection du port d'objets religieux et c'est aussi pourquoi nous n'avons pas de cours sur la religion comme dans de nombreux pays. Personnelement je n'ai jamais eu de prof portant de croix visible, en respect de cette loi. Dommage que tout le monde ne le fasse pas. Aussi la loi reste assez souple pour permettre aux enfants/ados de pouvoir être en accord avec la loi et leur religion. J'ai fait des études scientifiques supérieures et malgré l'interdiction légale du port du voile par exemple, mes amies musulmanes venaient en cours voilées sans problème. Et ce même lors de travaux pratiques de microbiologie où on utilise par exemple une flamme et où les manches doivent être relevées, les cheveux attachés et pas de couvre chef. Les gens ne sont pas tous étroits d'esprit! Et ok la loi sur le niqab était un peu too much, je suis totalement d'accord sur ce point là. )

vtmoon

I would imagine the pedophiles of France are protesting this decision.

ldrosophila

For a country based on wine they sure are uptight.

YaGigi

Just wow. France/Switzerland would be less beautiful if religious people walked around?


Well, as a "something or other" male living in France and Germany, I believe that it's a personal religious choice - I am not for niqab or religious dress, per se. But I consider it a personal choice. As to your exaggerations - clearly Paris is not France. There are very few niqab in Paris in general and they are breaking a law - that it isn't being enforced just shows, once again the silliness of another social law. BTW, I was in Dubai last year - and it's highly unlikely that Paris will ever look like Dubai. And if it does? So what. Religious freedom is a thing.

Should Orthodox Jewish women not be allowed to cover there heads, should Christians not be allowed to wear crosses in school? Because if you take the reasonable logical step of your statement concerning the declaration of religious values then my daughters teachers should not be wearing a cross around their neck. And yet... freedom for some is not freedom for all with this law.

Let's face it - this "centrist" attitude by that past government was playing into the xenophobic fears to vote grab. The niqab concerned less than 1% of the population.

You say you'd "hate to see the coutries become extremely religious" but isn't a persons religion their own damn business. So much for some basic French principles.

I believe in the separation of state and religion, laïcité. No public organizations, more over no schools should be influenced by any religious institutions. Exactly that people should be able making their own choices without being pushed from the childhood towards any religion.

Nobody prosecutes for wearing big crosses or hijabs on the streets, but school is school and there are general rules to be followed.

taunto

Just wow. France/Switzerland would be less beautiful if religious people walked around?


Well, as a "something or other" male living in France and Germany, I believe that it's a personal religious choice - I am not for niqab or religious dress, per se. But I consider it a personal choice. As to your exaggerations - clearly Paris is not France. There are very few niqab in Paris in general and they are breaking a law - that it isn't being enforced just shows, once again the silliness of another social law. BTW, I was in Dubai last year - and it's highly unlikely that Paris will ever look like Dubai. And if it does? So what. Religious freedom is a thing.

Should Orthodox Jewish women not be allowed to cover there heads, should Christians not be allowed to wear crosses in school? Because if you take the reasonable logical step of your statement concerning the declaration of religious values then my daughters teachers should not be wearing a cross around their neck. And yet... freedom for some is not freedom for all with this law.

Let's face it - this "centrist" attitude by that past government was playing into the xenophobic fears to vote grab. The niqab concerned less than 1% of the population.

You say you'd "hate to see the coutries become extremely religious" but isn't a persons religion their own damn business. So much for some basic French principles.

I believe in the separation of state and religion, laïcité. No public organizations, more over no schools should be influenced by any religious institutions. Exactly that people should be able making their own choices without being pushed from the childhood towards any religion.

Nobody prosecutes for wearing big crosses or hijabs on the streets, but school is school and there are general rules to be followed.

Seperation of church and state does not mean ELIMINATION of church. Which, in this case, you're suggesting. To be perfectly honest from what you've written, you seem to have a problem with Muslim religion. Or at least, all religions. You claim that there are too many people wearing hijabs in public which apparently makes the city of Paris somehow less beautiful or how you think France and Switzerland is less pretty because of Muslims walking around in it but it sure sounds like you hate the religion itself.