Muscle/Weight gain whilst loosing fat?

rileyhall00

Hey,

Sorry if this has been asked before, I did some research but think I'm overthinking it and wanted to clarify what I'm thinking.

So I weight 95kgs, I'm 6'5" and have been eating around 7300kjs daily for 11weeks now and have lost 12kgs. I was originally 107kgs.
How I started was going to the gym 20min cardio and 30min weights. I now play basketball once/twice a week and get a 40-60mins gameplay. nice work. Feeling great, stronger and better.

Now LATELY I've been cop'ing a lot of flack from girlfriend saying and too skinny and her family saying I look sick. While my BMI with this is 25.0 (I know this is not accurate depending on the context being used.). And I feel I still have jiggly bits and fat I could loose. She wants me to stop loosing weight and put weight back on. I personally want to loose another 5kgs and hopefully this reduces my BF% and loose my stomach.

Now that's my kinda history, now my question. I understand I need to eat more and higher amounts of protein to gain muscle. If I start doing that, eating above my TDEE, I'll gain muscle.
...Will I still loose my jiggly bits?... and become leaner?

I appreciate all feedback and encourage any questions or comments.

Cheers,
Riley

BigGuy47

I understand I need to eat more and higher amounts of protein to gain muscle. If I start doing that, eating above my TDEE, I'll gain muscle.

You left out strength training. Ramp up your strength training and eat more.

Catman50

Hi Riley,

Im far from an expert but until someone more knowledgeable than me throws in I'll give you my 5 pence worth.

The way I see it is if you eat more than your body is burning through exercise etc you will put on weight. What kind of weight this is depends on how ya exercising. Just gaining muscle by eating more doesn't happen. You have to train hard those part you want to increase.

If ya burning off energy with say high cardio it wont necessarily just come off ya stomach. It come off of all over the place & ya have to work those areas ya want to trim down.

I started my health kick about 2 months ago, Changed my diet and started with light stretching, till I decided I needed to join a gym to progress. Coming up to end of week 2 at the gym. I too wondered your same question as I wanted to loose some weight at the start. Then I worried Id loose some of muscle I had trying to loose my belly n love handles etc

I think you have to eat heavy and train hard to get solid gains. That said if ya training those body parts hard enough that you want to shred down , it will happen (depending how much ya over eating so to speak)

Make sure ya not eating too much fats and bad sugars, ya need some but a diet of pizza's n cookies just isn't gonna work.

Like I said im no expert. The above is just my take on it to date. I hope it helps and if not feel free to ignore it
Hopefully someone with more knowledge can help.

Cheers
Steve

AJ_G

If you eat above your TDEE you will gain muscle AND fat. If you eat below your TDEE you will lose fat AND muscle. If you eat above your TDEE, you will not lose fat. The proportion of fat to muscle that you lose/gain depends on the magnitude of your deficit/surplus, your protein intake, and how much heavy lifting you are doing. It is possible to eat at your TDEE and simultaneously gain muscle and lose fat, but this is a very very very slow process and I wouldn't recommend it.

First off, 1745 calories a day for someone of your size and activity level is absurdly low. Calculate your TDEE, and either add 10% if you want to gain muscle and put on weight, or subtract 15%-20% if you want to lose weight. Do not eat at greater than a 20% deficit from your TDEE. I'm guessing during your weight loss, because you ate at such a low calorie intake, that you lost a lot of muscle on the way down. Also, protein intake is important. Shoot for a minimum of 0.82g of protein per pound of body weight, it's perfectly fine to eat more than this, but try not to eat less protein than this. You also must lift heavy. Heavy is a relative term. You should be choosing weights that allow you to do at least 8 reps, but no more than 12. If you can do more than 12 reps, the weight is too light, if you can't do at least 8 reps, the weight is too heavy, so adjust until you find the right weight. Always lift to failure.

Catman50

Being a Newbie here, what exactly does TDEE stand for ? and how do I work out mine if its so important ?

rileyhall00

total daily energy expenditure

Few calc's online to help calculate it.

rileyhall00

If you eat above your TDEE you will gain muscle AND fat. If you eat below your TDEE you will lose fat AND muscle. If you eat above your TDEE, you will not lose fat. The proportion of fat to muscle that you lose/gain depends on the magnitude of your deficit/surplus, your protein intake, and how much heavy lifting you are doing. It is possible to eat at your TDEE and simultaneously gain muscle and lose fat, but this is a very very very slow process and I wouldn't recommend it.

Yeah, my original goal was to loose it all, at my 90kgs, then put muscle on, and then from my understanding some people try loosing the excess fat again while maintaining muscle.

I have lost any muscle. only built some, I've been keeping a measurement log every 2 weeks.

I think I'll just continue to loose it until I feel I'm happy with the results then switch my food intake to maintenance and from there add that 10% to help build muscle whilst lifting heavy.

Must be hard though, for athletes, when I play sport or gym days I can sometimes struggle to eat back what I workout. But I have yet to get protein shakes or anything like that. I've just been eating nuts.

AJ_G

Being a Newbie here, what exactly does TDEE stand for ? and how do I work out mine if its so important ?

There are two ways to track calorie balance. My Fitness Pal uses the NEAT method. NEAT stands for Non Exercise Associated Thermogenesis. Included in this is your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) which is the calories your body burns everyday for basic functions that are not associated with movement (breathing, organ function, brain function, heat production, etc.). Also included in neat is calories burned by your body during daily movements that are not designated as exercises (walking around, cleaning the house, moving things, etc). My fitness pal calculates this, and then subtracts a small deficit so that you can lose weight. You must then track your individual exercise in My Fitness Pal, so that you can then eat back your exercise calories.

The other way to track your calorie balance is TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure). This includes everything that was included in the NEAT calculations, but added in is EAT (Exercise Associated Thermogenesis), and TEF (Thermic Effect of Food), which is calories burned by your body during digestion of food. Some people like myself prefer to use the TDEE method, because then exercise has been accounted for already, and you are eating the same calorie intake every day, regardless of how much exercise you did that day, because it is averaged out across the week.

AJ_G

If you eat above your TDEE you will gain muscle AND fat. If you eat below your TDEE you will lose fat AND muscle. If you eat above your TDEE, you will not lose fat. The proportion of fat to muscle that you lose/gain depends on the magnitude of your deficit/surplus, your protein intake, and how much heavy lifting you are doing. It is possible to eat at your TDEE and simultaneously gain muscle and lose fat, but this is a very very very slow process and I wouldn't recommend it.

Yeah, my original goal was to loose it all, at my 90kgs, then put muscle on, and then from my understanding some people try loosing the excess fat again while maintaining muscle.

I have lost any muscle. only built some, I've been keeping a measurement log every 2 weeks.

I think I'll just continue to loose it until I feel I'm happy with the results then switch my food intake to maintenance and from there add that 10% to help build muscle whilst lifting heavy.

Must be hard though, for athletes, when I play sport or gym days I can sometimes struggle to eat back what I workout. But I have yet to get protein shakes or anything like that. I've just been eating nuts.

How have you been measuring your muscle mass?

rileyhall00

If you eat above your TDEE you will gain muscle AND fat. If you eat below your TDEE you will lose fat AND muscle. If you eat above your TDEE, you will not lose fat. The proportion of fat to muscle that you lose/gain depends on the magnitude of your deficit/surplus, your protein intake, and how much heavy lifting you are doing. It is possible to eat at your TDEE and simultaneously gain muscle and lose fat, but this is a very very very slow process and I wouldn't recommend it.

Yeah, my original goal was to loose it all, at my 90kgs, then put muscle on, and then from my understanding some people try loosing the excess fat again while maintaining muscle.

I have lost any muscle. only built some, I've been keeping a measurement log every 2 weeks.

I think I'll just continue to loose it until I feel I'm happy with the results then switch my food intake to maintenance and from there add that 10% to help build muscle whilst lifting heavy.

Must be hard though, for athletes, when I play sport or gym days I can sometimes struggle to eat back what I workout. But I have yet to get protein shakes or anything like that. I've just been eating nuts.

How have you been measuring your muscle mass?

No I haven't. I wasn't aware how or if I needed to. Sounds like something I should be doing I assume.

AJ_G

If you eat above your TDEE you will gain muscle AND fat. If you eat below your TDEE you will lose fat AND muscle. If you eat above your TDEE, you will not lose fat. The proportion of fat to muscle that you lose/gain depends on the magnitude of your deficit/surplus, your protein intake, and how much heavy lifting you are doing. It is possible to eat at your TDEE and simultaneously gain muscle and lose fat, but this is a very very very slow process and I wouldn't recommend it.

Yeah, my original goal was to loose it all, at my 90kgs, then put muscle on, and then from my understanding some people try loosing the excess fat again while maintaining muscle.

I have lost any muscle. only built some, I've been keeping a measurement log every 2 weeks.

I think I'll just continue to loose it until I feel I'm happy with the results then switch my food intake to maintenance and from there add that 10% to help build muscle whilst lifting heavy.

Must be hard though, for athletes, when I play sport or gym days I can sometimes struggle to eat back what I workout. But I have yet to get protein shakes or anything like that. I've just been eating nuts.

How have you been measuring your muscle mass?

No I haven't. I wasn't aware how or if I needed to. Sounds like something I should be doing I assume.

I only ask because you said you haven't lost any muscle, only gained some...

rileyhall00

If you eat above your TDEE you will gain muscle AND fat. If you eat below your TDEE you will lose fat AND muscle. If you eat above your TDEE, you will not lose fat. The proportion of fat to muscle that you lose/gain depends on the magnitude of your deficit/surplus, your protein intake, and how much heavy lifting you are doing. It is possible to eat at your TDEE and simultaneously gain muscle and lose fat, but this is a very very very slow process and I wouldn't recommend it.

Yeah, my original goal was to loose it all, at my 90kgs, then put muscle on, and then from my understanding some people try loosing the excess fat again while maintaining muscle.

I have lost any muscle. only built some, I've been keeping a measurement log every 2 weeks.

I think I'll just continue to loose it until I feel I'm happy with the results then switch my food intake to maintenance and from there add that 10% to help build muscle whilst lifting heavy.

Must be hard though, for athletes, when I play sport or gym days I can sometimes struggle to eat back what I workout. But I have yet to get protein shakes or anything like that. I've just been eating nuts.

How have you been measuring your muscle mass?

No I haven't. I wasn't aware how or if I needed to. Sounds like something I should be doing I assume.

I only ask because you said you haven't lost any muscle, only gained some...

Ahh k. Yeah like in the past 11 weeks I've noticed more muscle, my measures are backing this up too so its just not the fat is gone so now there showing. My goal was to get to 90 kgs, but I want to be lean and fit. I'm still aiming and this and trying to incorporate certain exercises to help my basketball out. So it'll probably take another 6weeks to loose 5 at this rate, maybe more. Then I'll bulk up a bit and then try and maintain that. See how things go.

AJ_G

Ahh k. Yeah like in the past 11 weeks I've noticed more muscle, my measures are backing this up too so its just not the fat is gone so now there showing. My goal was to get to 90 kgs, but I want to be lean and fit. I'm still aiming and this and trying to incorporate certain exercises to help my basketball out. So it'll probably take another 6weeks to loose 5 at this rate, maybe more. Then I'll bulk up a bit and then try and maintain that. See how things go.

Sounds like a good plan, just make sure you're not confusing muscle mass with strength. It's very common for someone to increase strength while losing fat, but you can increase strength while losing muscle. If you're noticing more muscle, it's most likely that there is less fat covering the muscle making it more defined. You've almost certainly lost muscle mass, but have gained strength and lost fat as well. Keep cutting weight and lifting until you're down to where you want to be, then eat at a surplus to build muscle mass.

rileyhall00

Ahh k. Yeah like in the past 11 weeks I've noticed more muscle, my measures are backing this up too so its just not the fat is gone so now there showing. My goal was to get to 90 kgs, but I want to be lean and fit. I'm still aiming and this and trying to incorporate certain exercises to help my basketball out. So it'll probably take another 6weeks to loose 5 at this rate, maybe more. Then I'll bulk up a bit and then try and maintain that. See how things go.

Sounds like a good plan, just make sure you're not confusing muscle mass with strength. It's very common for someone to increase strength while losing fat, but you can increase strength while losing muscle. If you're noticing more muscle, it's most likely that there is less fat covering the muscle making it more defined. You've almost certainly lost muscle mass, but have gained strength and lost fat as well. Keep cutting weight and lifting until you're down to where you want to be, then eat at a surplus to build muscle mass.

Awesome advice, thank you soo much. I really appreciate your advice. Its reassuring to hear I'm on the right track.

Cheers mate

cmeiron

Some good advice here for you, Riley

That said, there's a few things in this thread that probably should get cleared up...

If ya burning off energy with say high cardio it wont necessarily just come off ya stomach. It come off of all over the place & ya have to work those areas ya want to trim down.

Actually, it doesn't matter if you really hit your "trouble spots" - you can't spot-reduce fat from anywhere on your body, even if you're doing isolation exercises for a particular part (say, abs). All you can do is eat at a deficit and reduce overall body fat. Eventually it will come off the trouble spots too.

Make sure ya not eating too much fats and bad sugars, ya need some but a diet of pizza's n cookies just isn't gonna work.

Fats are important for satiety and hormonal regulation. Men can suffer testosterone loss if they eat much less than 20% fat in their diet. Between 20-30% is a good goal if you're trying to gain muscle (bulking). It can be higher if you're trying to lose weight still.

There's not really such thing as "bad" sugars. This might be worth a read. http://www.fitnessbaddies.com/your-problem-with-sugar-is-the-problem-with-sugar/ And you CAN include things like cookies and pizza in your diet, as long as you're still hitting your calorie, protein and fat targets. A good rule of thumb is to aim for about 80% whole, nutrient-dense foods, and the other 20% can be for whatever else, including treats

smaclean8

First off, 1745 calories a day for someone of your size and activity level is absurdly low.

Agree. I'm a girl, I eat that much and lose nearly 2 lbs per week. WAY TOO LOW for a guy your size.

YOU ARE RUINING YOUR METABOLISM.

You look flabby because probably 60% of your weight loss at that great of a deficit is from muscle loss.

Slowly increase calories, by about 150 calories per week. You will continue losing (don't worry), and start lifting. Continue to increase your calories until you stop losing weight. Then stay there and keep lifting like a motha'. Soon, you'll probably start losing weight again because you will be gaining muscle which is more metabolically active, if that happens, increase your calories again until you stop losing.

Do this for your lifting plan: http://www.jimwendler.com/2011/09/531-for-a-beginner/
Or buy the book "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe and MEMORIZE IT.

If you do what I'm saying, you'll turn yourself into a hunk instead of a flabby floppy boyfriend getting nagged at.

rileyhall00

First off, 1745 calories a day for someone of your size and activity level is absurdly low.

Agree. I'm a girl, I eat that much and lose nearly 2 lbs per week. WAY TOO LOW for a guy your size.

YOU ARE RUINING YOUR METABOLISM.

Slowly increase calories, by about 150 calories per week. You will continue losing (don't worry), and start lifting. Continue to increase your calories until you stop losing weight. Then stay there and keep lifting like a motha'. Soon, you'll probably start losing weight again because you will be gaining muscle which is more metabolically active, if that happens, increase your calories again until you stop losing.

All awesome advice, I've just started doing this, I've increase my cal's 150 and will continue to do so, where i stop loosing weight and find that sweet spot where i get a good number to build off to be in cal surplus. From there i should start to increase my muscle mass.

Thanks again for all the awesome advice. That lifting program is good. i did look into it but i already have adapted the 5x5 stronglifts.

cheers and thank you again