Understanding Why it's So Difficult to Maintain Weight

13

Replies

  • ctalimenti
    ctalimenti Posts: 865 Member
    Very interesting. Thank you.

    Over the past 9 months, I have logged and then averaged my calories on a weekly basis. I weigh about the same as when I started. I now know my body needs 1500 calories daily to maintain so I stick to it.

    I tried abandoning logging a few times over the past 3 years and gained 7-8 lbs before correcting.

    I am 49 yrs old, 5'8" and started out at about 160. I had been a normal weight up until about my mid 40's. I'm now 140.

    I guess I'll have to log forever but what's the alternative? Go back to 160 and keep climbing?
  • geekyjock76
    geekyjock76 Posts: 2,720 Member
    ...
  • anemoneprose
    anemoneprose Posts: 1,805 Member
    They put the patients in this study on an 800 calorie a day diet. Isn't that putting the body into starvation mode and causing it to react the way it is? I'm no scientist/physician, but I'd like to know the results if they had their patients eating a 1400 calorie a day diet. Would the results be the same?
    No. The adaptations mentioned in the segment would have been minimal in comparison if subjects were prescribed and maintained a smaller deficit. If people want to have more success at maintenance, then maintaining a very-low calorie diet chronically should not be the strategy. The risk of obesity relapse is simply too great by such methods.

    Various studies put the relapse rate after *any* diet/weight loss method at around 95%. Whether the specific responses mentioned in the doc are only true for VLCDs, there is clearly some kind of homeostatic pressure (whether psychological, hormonal, both) operating for most. Meanwhile, in most studies of people who've kept weight off long-term, most counted calories indefinitely. #logforlife #itsnotthathardin2013
  • jessready
    jessready Posts: 129 Member
    Thanks for sharing!
  • jpolinisse
    jpolinisse Posts: 149 Member
    Very interesting information in this. Thank you for posting.
  • SapiensPisces
    SapiensPisces Posts: 992 Member
    They put the patients in this study on an 800 calorie a day diet. Isn't that putting the body into starvation mode and causing it to react the way it is? I'm no scientist/physician, but I'd like to know the results if they had their patients eating a 1400 calorie a day diet. Would the results be the same?
    No. The adaptations mentioned in the segment would have been minimal in comparison if subjects were prescribed and maintained a smaller deficit. If people want to have more success at maintenance, then maintaining a very-low calorie diet chronically should not be the strategy. The risk of obesity relapse is simply too great by such methods.
    What's your evidence for that?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780395/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9226488

    In these studies, the rate or method of loss did not affect the rate of regaining. How do we know the same adaptations do not occur?

    Along similar lines, this is a meta-analysis done in 2006 that shows similar long-term prospects comparing VLCDs and LCDs but greater weight gain relapse in VLCD groups: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2006.146/full

    From the paper:
    This meta-analysis of six studies showed that VLCDs induced significantly greater short-term weight losses than LCDs but comparable long-term changes in weight. The equivalence of long-term losses was attributable to greater weight regain among the VLCD-treated patients. The present findings support the conclusion of the NHLBI expert panel that VLCDs not be recommended in lieu of LCDs comprised of conventional foods.
  • Scott_2025
    Scott_2025 Posts: 201 Member
    bump for later. Great topic. And one I hopefully will be transitioning to in several months.
  • melissaka7
    melissaka7 Posts: 277 Member
    bump
  • wild_wild_life
    wild_wild_life Posts: 1,334 Member
    They put the patients in this study on an 800 calorie a day diet. Isn't that putting the body into starvation mode and causing it to react the way it is? I'm no scientist/physician, but I'd like to know the results if they had their patients eating a 1400 calorie a day diet. Would the results be the same?
    No. The adaptations mentioned in the segment would have been minimal in comparison if subjects were prescribed and maintained a smaller deficit. If people want to have more success at maintenance, then maintaining a very-low calorie diet chronically should not be the strategy. The risk of obesity relapse is simply too great by such methods.
    What's your evidence for that?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780395/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9226488

    In these studies, the rate or method of loss did not affect the rate of regaining. How do we know the same adaptations do not occur?

    Along similar lines, this is a meta-analysis done in 2006 that shows similar long-term prospects comparing VLCDs and LCDs but greater weight gain relapse in VLCD groups: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2006.146/full

    From the paper:
    This meta-analysis of six studies showed that VLCDs induced significantly greater short-term weight losses than LCDs but comparable long-term changes in weight. The equivalence of long-term losses was attributable to greater weight regain among the VLCD-treated patients. The present findings support the conclusion of the NHLBI expert panel that VLCDs not be recommended in lieu of LCDs comprised of conventional foods.

    Good article. For the purposes of this discussion, I think the relevant point in their findings is "Attrition was similar in VLCD and LCD regimens".
  • bonjovi27
    bonjovi27 Posts: 144 Member
    bumping for later
  • bfitgirl
    bfitgirl Posts: 138 Member
    Bump
  • Fairlieboy
    Fairlieboy Posts: 84 Member
    You have to be very cautious about deriving epidemiological studies because they are notorious at self reporting. Correlation is not causation. The work by Leibel and Rosenbaum in a fully controlled environment is worth dozens of epidemiological papers to understand the causes. (These guys were the first who found leptin). This doco reconfirms what is now understood about appetite and metabolism. Leptin does affect hunger. So does insulin. Fructose (in added sugar) does. So does how you are emotionally. All the 7 or so identified hormones in this complex and the dozens of behavioural influences. What was intriguing is they could, by giving leptin to the patients, stop this metabolic drive to get back to being the heavy weight. But do you want to take a drug for the rest of your life? (even a naturally occurring / or synthetic one)
    Research from others suggest very low carbohydrate diets, avoidance of fructose, intermittent fasting (like the 5:2) may have similar outcomes, but the actual reasons may take years to understand. They more they know, the more complicated it becomes!
    Metabolism also slows with age. At 20 at my weight, and now (40 years on), my daily energy is down at least 200 calories per day. So just simply eating the same would have me at 30kg more (which I was a few years ago.)
  • wild_wild_life
    wild_wild_life Posts: 1,334 Member
    They put the patients in this study on an 800 calorie a day diet. Isn't that putting the body into starvation mode and causing it to react the way it is? I'm no scientist/physician, but I'd like to know the results if they had their patients eating a 1400 calorie a day diet. Would the results be the same?
    No. The adaptations mentioned in the segment would have been minimal in comparison if subjects were prescribed and maintained a smaller deficit. If people want to have more success at maintenance, then maintaining a very-low calorie diet chronically should not be the strategy. The risk of obesity relapse is simply too great by such methods.
    What's your evidence for that?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780395/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9226488

    In these studies, the rate or method of loss did not affect the rate of regaining. How do we know the same adaptations do not occur?

    Along similar lines, this is a meta-analysis done in 2006 that shows similar long-term prospects comparing VLCDs and LCDs but greater weight gain relapse in VLCD groups: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2006.146/full

    From the paper:
    This meta-analysis of six studies showed that VLCDs induced significantly greater short-term weight losses than LCDs but comparable long-term changes in weight. The equivalence of long-term losses was attributable to greater weight regain among the VLCD-treated patients. The present findings support the conclusion of the NHLBI expert panel that VLCDs not be recommended in lieu of LCDs comprised of conventional foods.

    Good article. For the purposes of this discussion, I think the relevant point in their findings is "Attrition was similar in VLCD and LCD regimens".

    Eh, scratch that, sorry. By attrition they just meant failure to stick with the diet. They do also say that the proportion that regained from each group was not significantly different.
  • natalyau
    natalyau Posts: 18
    Bump to watch later, thanks
  • khgraves
    khgraves Posts: 54 Member
    Thanks for sharing- saving for later.
  • jeansuza
    jeansuza Posts: 148 Member
    I believe that my metabolism may have been permanently altered and that it will forever be a struggle to maintain once I get there. I will never be the one that can eat anything and never get an ounce but never had been anyway! That's me and my life.
    Despite a study that said that I had 0% chance of successfully maintaining, I want my ticket to health and I will get it by exercising and developing a healthy lifestyle that includes calorie counting.
    Hope Mfp will remain on the net for the next 50 years 'cos I want to live that long! Being a healthy Mfp member aged 101!!! ;-D
  • chelseybennett1
    chelseybennett1 Posts: 275 Member
    Bump for later
  • dshalbert
    dshalbert Posts: 677 Member
    This explains so much. I always felt that once I hit a certain weight that my body seemed to hold on to every ounce for dear life and it is nearly impossible to get the scale to budge. I guess I'm not crazy.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member

    do you still track calories every day then? That's just mind boggling to me-I got burned out from tracking just during the few months of weight loss and stopped when I started transitioning into maintenance :tongue: I wonder if I'm setting myself up for failure by not tracking them?

    I think you will have to track or develop eating habits that help keep your weight off. For example, I have a weekly "diet" day where I eat about 1000 calories below maintenance. It's only one day so it's not hard to do. I also eat a monotonous breakfast and lunch-almost identical every day with a relatively low calorie count. This allows me to have a somewhat relaxed "normal" supper and some enjoyable foods afterwards.

    I am working on developing habits so that I won't need to track my whole life. I have been working on that since I moved into my second year on MFP. I have found that I can easily maintain my current weight. But I have about 25 pounds more to go before I can say that I'm in permanent maintenance.
  • SharonCMach
    SharonCMach Posts: 305 Member
    Thanks for sharing, very informative, but scary at the same time. YIKES!!
  • TinaDay1114
    TinaDay1114 Posts: 1,328 Member
    BUMP for later.
  • HiKaren
    HiKaren Posts: 1,306 Member
    This episode from the HBO documentary series, (The Weight Of A Nation) gives the skinny on the situation many of us struggle with.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_cmltmQ6A

    OMG.... OMG... This explains soooo much tooo meee. Thank you...Thank you...
  • SouthernCountryGirl
    SouthernCountryGirl Posts: 195 Member
    Bumping to watch later, thanks!
  • kluvit
    kluvit Posts: 435 Member
    bumping to watch video from home
  • airangel59
    airangel59 Posts: 1,887 Member
    Bumping to watch later...
  • kluvit
    kluvit Posts: 435 Member
    I believe that my metabolism may have been permanently altered and that it will forever be a struggle to maintain once I get there. I will never be the one that can eat anything and never get an ounce but never had been anyway! That's me and my life.
    Despite a study that said that I had 0% chance of successfully maintaining, I want my ticket to health and I will get it by exercising and developing a healthy lifestyle that includes calorie counting.
    Hope Mfp will remain on the net for the next 50 years 'cos I want to live that long! Being a healthy Mfp member aged 101!!! ;-D

    Ouch! Typically, you will achieve what you believe, so if you believe you'll fail, you probably will. I highly recommend seeking a hypnotist who can help you change your beliefs to some that will benefit you and help you achieve your dream lifestyle rather than settling for something less.
  • HiKaren
    HiKaren Posts: 1,306 Member
    Over a lifetime of losing probably around 500 ish pounds.. Losing 89 in 1987, losing 36 in 2011, and multiple random losses of various weights, at different times. Im great at losing!!!!! The maintaining sucks. This video explains just why it crept back on me multiple times. I was doing EVERYTHING the same, just increased 300-500 per day on the calorie front. And the last time I lost, at the end of losing, I started into my menopause time. Arrgh.

    The video explains about your leptin level after losing weight. I was always told to lose weight, lower your intake, up your exercise, drink lots of water. When you get to goal.... now, do everything the same only increase your cals just a little bit. WRONG WRONG.

    Thats the part the doctors in this study have researched. The leptin level in your body is now lower. It now takes even less daily calories, just to maintain. Dont increase once your at goal. Your body with the leptin and your hormones are now changed. Just a slight increase of 300 ish calories per day... Even thou your eating now 1500 per day.... Even that, can cause your weight to come back on....

    A person who has always weighed about 150 lbs, and a person who lost 30 lbs and now weighs 150. The one who always weighed 150 eats higher to maintain that weight. Where the person who lost 30 & weighs 150, they have to eat less to maintain the same weight. Due to the readjustment of Leptin in the brain. Your brain wants to fight back to the same weight you were before... Very badly....

    This explains why all my friends here, the ones who eat at such lower levels.. YES they are the ones who are maintaining the lower weight. The ones who eat at the same level, that had lost weight before, they are gaining weight eating the same calories!!! That encludes meee.

    Notice my ticker. Its reset. To start all over again. My body/brain is wanting to resist and stay around the 160 ish lbs according to what the hormones and leptin level is. I would say Im making excuses.. Those doctors have done all the research for me. Thank you doctors. Where can I acquire some leptin, so my body and metabolism will be the same as it used to be before I lost any weight at all. I wonder.

    Thanks for the video! I really appreciate this video... I really don't want to eat at 1200 to maintain.. I really don't. Whats this bull-pucky about people who can eat at 2000 per day and maintain? Its the people who HAVE NOT lost weight multiple times. And the people who spend 2-5 hrs per day working out I guess. I can promise 45 per day. Of purposeful intensional workouts. NOT counting how much time throughout my 24 hrs, that is spent with regular activities of daily living.

    Did I understand that video right? I hope so. Thanks again. The losing is fine... The maintaining is the most difficult part. That is True!
  • RoBalance
    RoBalance Posts: 56 Member
    I would like to know whether they also accounted for muscle mass lost because that is quite typical on drastic diets. And that would explain very nicely why two people at the same weight can have a different TDEE- if one has high and the other low muscle mass. And that means that you can increase your TDEE by doing strength training. I think the same is the case for the decrease in metabolism with age: it is muscle mass that is being lost naturally. So then maybe not all is lost. The study paints quite a bleak picture but it's important to remember that a lot of people have managed to maintain by having changed their lifestyle and kept it up.
  • SharonCMach
    SharonCMach Posts: 305 Member
    Where can I acquire some leptin, so my body and metabolism will be the same as it used to be before I lost any weight at all. I wonder.

    ^^^THIS, juice me up with some Leptin!! :laugh:
  • retrotravelbug
    retrotravelbug Posts: 2
    SOOOO helpful to understand why I'm like a robot muching on crap in the cupboard in the evenings after a great success in keeping my calories in check during the day (this is after me losing 40 pounds over a year). I was maintaining fine while I was tracking consistently. Xmas time last year relaxed for 2 weeks - big mistake - and my body and brain have been fighting with my willpower ever since. The last 5 pounds have become the last 10 pounds - no way, time to go back to tracking consistently at the lower level that works for me!

    SOME ANSWERS .... WHERE TO GET LEPTIN?

    Found some really helpful articles to find ways of increasing leptin (basically common sense LIFESTYLE changes - exercise, eat protein and fibre, avoid sugar, avoid eating late at night, sleep well, drink water, take Vit E and Zinc).

    http://eas.com/training/manage-weight/the-last-5-pounds
    Recommends 40/40/20 diet with Vit E (400 in morn and 400 pre bed) and Zinc (5mg in morning and 5mg pre bed)
    Last meal is dinner at 8pm

    http://www.wikihow.com/Increase-Leptin
    Steps recommended to increase leptin levels:
    African mango seed extracts (250mg day)
    Lots of sleep
    Stop eating after 7pm
    Eat lots of fibre rich foods
    Exercise
    Eat regularly and properly
    Keep hydrated

    Then read article: http://wellnessmama.com/5356/cravings-fix-your-leptin/
    - loads of helpful advice from the youtube video embedded in this article

    Then there is one mainly aimed at the guys - but still makes sense for us ladies (again - sleep, short burst energy exercise help, plus the 'cheat day' theory):
    http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/leptin-the-secret-key-to-getting-shredded

    Well, time for me to go back to tracking and not trusting my instinct, like others have said!! Because my "instinct" ruins my good work.

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