Comparing kettlebells and dumbbells

yogicarl

I'm sitting here nursing an acute pain in my lumbar region, having jarred my back over the weekend getting one kettlebell swing wrong.

First off - I'm not having a go at kettlebells or warning peoplke that they are dangerous blah blah - I swung in bad form and I set myself up for the back sprain. It was in the last ten swings of a set of fifty and I knew I was pushing it, I knew my form was falling apart in those last ten swings, but I kep going because the set said "fifty" and that is what I was going to do. Now I'm in pain!

The observation I make is if I were using dumbbells I would have reached failure and then not been able to push another rep - in good form. Also, the loading from conventional weights comes on gradually and is not ballistic, so again, I would have met failure sooner before my form started to fall apart.

I know - I made it happen, but my feeling is that it is much easier to damage yourself very quickly with KBs, compared to the more conventional DBs routine.

If you are thinking about using kettlebells, I would say go for it but I've learned a hard lesson - form is everything.

missbrendalynn

I agree with what you said that form is everything with kettlebells.

I'm not the biggest fan of kettlebell swings only because it takes a lot of concentration to grip it properly so it doesn't fly across the room. Sometimes I unintentionally use momentum to swing it back and forth, which totally defeats the purpose of a controlled swing. Other KB workouts are a lot more enjoyable though.

Having said that, 50 swings with no rest sounds bloody hard! I did them in a HIIT circuit and almost passed out doing them for 1 minute.

Hope you're feeling better! :flowerforyou:

yogicarl

Much better thank you, though the pain is going to force me to rest for this week - time to rethink my goals and how to get there.

micheleb15

Form is everything in all exercises - not just kettlebells. There have been plenty of times that I have been at failure with a dumbbell/barbell and used incorrect form to compensate for my muscle failure. Luckily, I know better now.

Edited for typo

JoRocka

The observation I make is if I were using dumbbells I would have reached failure and then not been able to push another rep - in good form. Also, the loading from conventional weights comes on gradually and is not ballistic, so again, I would have met failure sooner before my form started to fall apart.

I know - I made it happen, but my feeling is that it is much easier to damage yourself very quickly with KBs, compared to the more conventional DBs routine.

If you are thinking about using kettlebells, I would say go for it but I've learned a hard lesson - form is everything.

I'm confused about that... why would you have reached failure with a dumbbell? If you're doing a swing with a KB vs a DB- it would have been the same thing? Or you talking about reaching failure if you had done a DB routine instead of one based around KB workouts?

I'm a little confused.

Also I think it's only the appearance/perception of greater injury because there is a lot more ballistic movement with the KB routines. it wouldn't really matter if it was a DB or a KB- the injury isn't from the weight- it's from the movement- and since MOST of the the time KB's are used with those routines- it's a 'KB' injury- when it's not.

that being- said- sorry for the bad back issue... doesn't matter HOW you hurt it- it still sucks. I pull my neck sneezing... completely useless unrelated workout injury- STILL SUCKS!!!

hope you rest up and get back on your feet!

Commander_Keen

I knew I was pushing it, I knew my form was falling apart in those last ten swings, but I kep going

*This* is why you are in pain, not because of the KB...

yoovie

You know that kettlebells are a legs thing, right? Not like dumbbells.

yoovie

I knew I was pushing it, I knew my form was falling apart in those last ten swings, but I kep going

*This* is why you are in pain, not because of the KB...

QFT

joe_d

Yogicarl, sorry to hear about your back. I've had a back sprain a few times from kettlebells too, always as a result of lack of focus, and, oddly enough, it's happened twice as I was finishing my last swing in a set--I relaxed my back muscles before I had the bell back on the floor and ended up pulling a muscle. I'm much better these days about staying strong until my hand's off the bell.

I don't use dumbells so can't really say about the relative risk of tweaking something with them versus KBs. You're right about KB exercises being more ballistic than traditional dumbell work, so yes, maybe there's more risk there, but the benefit is the involvement of more muscle groups to support that.

I don't know your workout and what you've been doing to lead up to them, but 50 straight swings seems like a lot. Unlike other weight training, I'm not sure KBs are meant to be worked until muscle failure.

Where I work out we tend to do the interval thing, e.g., 15 seconds of swings, 15 seconds off, etc. Then you can play around with the interval times (e.g., move to 20 on, 10 off), or the amount of weight if you want more effort.

yogicarl

I knew I was pushing it, I knew my form was falling apart in those last ten swings, but I kep going

*This* is why you are in pain, not because of the KB...

QFT

totally agree - lesson learned.

joe_d

You know that kettlebells are a legs thing, right? Not like dumbbells.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "legs thing". For sure the legs and hips provide the main power for a number of moves (swings, high pulls, snatches, squats), but it sure feels like my arms and shoulders are also involved for the snatches and pulls, and especially for cleans, presses, and get ups.

For swings, I'd agree. If you're doing the swing right there's little arm/shoulder involved in getting the bell up; on the other hand, you're supposed to accelerate it down too, so there's some arm involvement there...

yogicarl

I'm confused about that... why would you have reached failure with a dumbbell? If you're doing a swing with a KB vs a DB- it would have been the same thing?

... Or you talking about reaching failure if you had done a DB routine instead of one based around KB workouts?

yes, that's what I meant - the KB being a ballistic movement means you can injure yourself very quickly very badly, whereas using a dumbbell to work slowly through the exercise until failure is less likely to lead to injury; just because it is not ballistic and with dumbbells you are usually working to reduce momentum.

I totally get the fact that it was my lack of focus toward the end of the set that led to the injury and not the KB workout itself. My fault and not wishing to discredit KB practices at all.

yogicarl

You know that kettlebells are a legs thing, right? Not like dumbbells.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "legs thing". For sure the legs and hips provide the main power for a number of moves (swings, high pulls, snatches, squats), but it sure feels like my arms and shoulders are also involved for the snatches and pulls, and especially for cleans, presses, and get ups.

For swings, I'd agree. If you're doing the swing right there's little arm/shoulder involved in getting the bell up; on the other hand, you're supposed to accelerate it down too, so there's some arm involvement there...

Yes, when I do KB swings I definitely feel it in the legs and feel my core tightening and not so much in the arms on a swing but certainly in the grip.

The thing that lead to the injury for me was having the number 50 in my head and not allowing myself to listen to the fact that my form was failing in the last ten swings so much that the force was coming more and more onto my lower back rather than the hip snap. Should have stopped before that. By comparison though, had it been say dumbbell shoulder press, curls or whatever, I feel the point of failure usually comes before the point where your form starts to deteriorate. I guess any form can fall apart though if you start to lose focus.

JoRocka

KB's are not a "leg thing"

KB's are a dumbbell with a handle on it- you can do whatever you want with them- including- curls and over head press or rows- none of which are 'leg things'

no more. no less.

you can do almost all work interchangeably. If the exercise you choose is a leg driven exercise- then it's a leg driven exercise- regardless of the weight you chose to use- KB or DB or sand bag.

the type weight itself is irrelevant of the exercise.

TeachTheGirl

If it's down to your form, you've already found the culprit.

I smacked myself in the head with a sandbell once. I don't blame the sandbell, I blame my own stupid self. I'm not going to stop using a piece of equipment because I made a mistake. You learn from your mistakes.

No_Finish_Line

form is always everything, but i would agree that certain forms of exercise simply require more care and concentration when performing them

yoovie

You know that kettlebells are a legs thing, right? Not like dumbbells.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "legs thing". For sure the legs and hips provide the main power for a number of moves (swings, high pulls, snatches, squats), but it sure feels like my arms and shoulders are also involved for the snatches and pulls, and especially for cleans, presses, and get ups.

For swings, I'd agree. If you're doing the swing right there's little arm/shoulder involved in getting the bell up; on the other hand, you're supposed to accelerate it down too, so there's some arm involvement there...

all of this is what i was referring to.

yoovie

-_-

DavPul

The OP seems to making quite a few assumptions on how different people perform different exercises. I've seen people do some real dumb shish with dumbbells, barbells, kbs.....hell, even bodyweight.

Bad form and the desire to push well past when he knew he should stop are the culprits here, not the equipment used.

MyChocolateDiet

I'm sitting here nursing an acute pain in my lumbar region, having jarred my back over the weekend getting one kettlebell swing wrong.

First off - I'm not having a go at kettlebells or warning peoplke that they are dangerous blah blah - I swung in bad form and I set myself up for the back sprain. It was in the last ten swings of a set of fifty and I knew I was pushing it, I knew my form was falling apart in those last ten swings, but I kep going because the set said "fifty" and that is what I was going to do. Now I'm in pain!

The observation I make is if I were using dumbbells I would have reached failure and then not been able to push another rep - in good form. Also, the loading from conventional weights comes on gradually and is not ballistic, so again, I would have met failure sooner before my form started to fall apart.

I know - I made it happen, but my feeling is that it is much easier to damage yourself very quickly with KBs, compared to the more conventional DBs routine.

If you are thinking about using kettlebells, I would say go for it but I've learned a hard lesson - form is everything.

Do you mean because of the momentum?

and thanks for the full description of what NOT to do during workouts. Push toward a goal that is just there as a number. Continue past obvious fatigue. Choose count over form. etc. etc. etc. It's rare someone admits to doing things like this but SO CRUCIAL for newbies to know how you have to be tempered while "giving it your all". Judgement should never take a back seat.

Lupercalia

The OP seems to making quite a few assumptions on how different people perform different exercises. I've seen people do some real dumb shish with dumbbells, barbells, kbs.....hell, even bodyweight.

Bad form and the desire to push well past when he knew he should stop are the culprits here, not the equipment used.

Yes, totally agree. And it seems OP knows exactly where he went wrong.

OP, I'm sorry to hear you injured yourself. I'm thinking it was that Dan John workout we were discussing in the KB forum. I hope it's just a minor strain and you're feeling better soon.

I strongly suggest you meet with either an RKC or SFG certified trainer to get your form straight before you continue on with KBs.

:flowerforyou:

lambchristie

You know that kettlebells are a legs thing, right? Not like dumbbells.

KBs are an all over body thing not just a leg thing!

IronSmasher

I do swings with dumbbells.

I think you mean, be wary of doing cardio or conditioning with weights, as there is a temptation to continue with bad form as we associate cardio with exhaustion, but we associate strict weight training with correct form.

yogicarl

I said it but Iron Smasher put it better in less words; thanks.

and thank you MyChocolateDiet - I thought it was worth posting exactly what NOT to do with a KB or any workout as there will be people who can learn from others' mistakes and egos or peer pressure getting in the way of sensibly meeting a challenge.

Yes, Lupercalia, it was the Dan John workout with the 50 swings last set in the cluster. If I had stayed within my limits of say 30 swings, I would have kept good form. Just a minor strain thanks; painful but healing fast.

JoRocka

Hey- the more you know!!!


Maybe next time- do 2 x 25. no harm no foul.

There is no workout police- and it gives you a chance to finish the set work out- without murdering your self. I did 100 one time- with a 50 lb KB.

I kind of thought I was going to die. The goal was to finish them... didn't matter how long or how many 'sets' just to finish them. So I did- I think I got to 25.. then broke it down into sets of 10 or 15. it was rough. LOL

obviously lesson learned- but- next step- RICE... and back on the road to recovery!!!

yoovie

You know that kettlebells are a legs thing, right? Not like dumbbells.

KBs are an all over body thing not just a leg thing!

i retalked about this already- i should have phrased it as - you know kettlebells arent just arms and back right? the swing comes for your legs and 8u3yhntik8uw3tvbh35mt6cvkljw4k,c3tio;hkljnsfm,crtunkwev4n t information i dont feel like explaining 10 godzillion times.

you know the info, and they admitted they know the info and i know the info - so its a nonissue.

thanks