Weightlifting with maintenance calories

__freckles__

So you build muscle while lifting weights and eating at a calorie surplus. You retain muscle while lifting weights and eating at a calorie deficit. What happens when you weight lift and eat at maintenance? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

sijomial

You gain muscle and lose fat slowly - it's called a recomp.

It works but you need patience.

__freckles__

You gain muscle and lose fat slowly - it's called a recomp.

It works but you need patience.

Music to my ears. Thanks!

astronomicals

yup... honestly, if you're tracking calories every day I think everyone should "clean bulk" rather than maintain unless they have no desire to gain any more size to their musculature...

clean bulking is having a pretty small surplus... guys who wanna stay ripped all year but still gain muscle... its not as fast as bigger surpluses with more fat gain, but your time is better spent than lifting on maintenance...


ETA: if a guy spent 5 months lifting and gained 10 pounds while lifting at a small surplus I'd be shocked if he didnt look better than if he had maintained his weight while doing the exact same regimen... 5 pounds in 5 months for a female.

vorgas

In the long run you will have much better results bulking then cutting. And you need to eat a boat load of protein at maintenance to gain any muscle, but your gains are going to be slow, slow, slow.

That being said, if you're new to lifting weights most of your strength gains are going to come from neural pathways as opposed to muscle build anyway, so it will be fine in the beginning.

pauljsaunders

A really interesting read... thanks...

sijomial

I'm aiming to go for a BodPod analysis next week to get accurate numbers to follow the one I had in March.

Rough estimate for past 7 months is a net weight loss of 4lbs (mix of slight deficit and then maintenance) with loss of 8lbs of fat, gain of 4lbs of muscle.

Factors that help a recomp:
Being male (young male even more so, sadly for me...)
A good weight training regime.
Adequate to high protein intake.
Intermittent fasting routine (debatable...)

Recomp doesn't suit everybody and if muscle gain is your priority cut/bulk cycles might well give quicker results.

FrnkLft

I'm aiming to go for a BodPod analysis next week to get accurate numbers to follow the one I had in March.

Rough estimate for past 7 months is a net weight loss of 4lbs (mix of slight deficit and then maintenance) with loss of 8lbs of fat, gain of 4lbs of muscle.

Factors that help a recomp:
Being male (young male even more so, sadly for me...)
A good weight training regime.
Adequate to high protein intake.
Intermittent fasting routine (debatable...)

Recomp doesn't suit everybody and if muscle gain is your priority cut/bulk cycles might well give quicker results.

Dude, post your results here. I want to see how it came along, and include details about what you did deficit/maintenance/surplus, routine, etc...

toomanydogs99

Bumping in case he comes back- really interested in this

tomcornhole

I like the recomp route but it is trickier and slower than a bulk / cut. In May, I weighed 185 lbs, 156 lbs LBM, 16% BF. This morning, I weighed 184 lbs, 159 lbs LBM, 13.6% BF. Added 3 lbs LBM in 5 months. A pure bulk should have added 10 lbs of LBM. But it was summer and I wanted to stay lean.

I do IF every day (last food at 8pm, first food at noon, so a 16/8 IF). I don't do IF because I think it helps, it is just my lifestyle and preference.

I eat low carb just below maint on rest days. I don't eat low carb because I think it helps, it just fits my lifestyle and preference.

I eat just above maint and add carbs right after lifting on lift days. I think this is called several different things: nutrient timing, carb back loading, silly. I like it because I feel like I am a pig after lifting. But the daily calories are just above maint. I think this does help.

Tom

summer8it

You gain muscle and lose fat slowly - it's called a recomp.

It works but you need patience.

I suspect that this translates to what many ladies call "toning."

It's working for me. My weight is staying steady, but I'm gaining strength and definition.

lporter229

You gain muscle and lose fat slowly - it's called a recomp.

It works but you need patience.

I suspect that this translates to what many ladies call "toning."

It's working for me. My weight is staying steady, but I'm gaining strength and definition.

This is my goal too. I am still struggling a bit with knowing if I am at the right maintenance calories. I have been maintaining pretty well, but, as a distance runner, my weekly calorie burn is pretty variable. I have been trying to incorporate more weight training into my workout routine and will continue to do so. I just hope I am on the right track.

FrnkLft

You gain muscle and lose fat slowly - it's called a recomp.

It works but you need patience.

I suspect that this translates to what many ladies call "toning."

It's working for me. My weight is staying steady, but I'm gaining strength and definition.

This is my goal too. I am still struggling a bit with knowing if I am at the right maintenance calories. I have been maintaining pretty well, but, as a distance runner, my weekly calorie burn is pretty variable. I have been trying to incorporate more weight training into my workout routine and will continue to do so. I just hope I am on the right track.

See, based on what I know about lifting, while:

Deficit = maintain muscle
Surplus = gain muscle

I would figure maintaining might lead to a little muscle mass. With regards to getting "definition" or "toning up"... I think it's more to do with keeping the muscle you have, and loosing the fat... just like when on a deficit.

I mean, TomCornhole is a man, and eating at maintenance only gained 3lbs LM in 5 months. Whatever he sees in the mirror isn't much to do with what he gained, it's more likely what he's lost.

karllundy

BUMP. I am nearing my goal weight and getting ready to start new goals. In for the info.

Jennical

This was really interesting....

madtownjeremy

This is interesting to me because I've been lifting since the beginning of June and have seen enormous gains in just plain being able to use my muscles as well as definition (plus tons of fat loss from cal deficit), but no size gains...which is fine.

My weight is still pretty high (285) which puts my 'exercise every day' rmr at 2300 and honestly I can barely eat that...not to mention going up to TDEE and beyond.

I just feel sometimes like I'm stuck in a cutting phase until my weight comes down because there's no way I can eat over 3K cals in one day to support bulking, regardless of the macros.

FrnkLft

You know, at least at the beginning, I think I would advocate bulking to a point where you feel the cutting period wouldn't be too much, then cutting, then bulking, cutting, etc...

If a newbie gains .5 LM per lb gained, then that would amount to like 2 months bulking, 1 month cutting, etc... that's not so bad.

And for most people you could create the deficit through exercise and spare the rationing.

wild_wild_life

Consider calorie cycling. Above maintenance on lift days, below maintenance on rest days. As long as the calories balance out for the week you will maintain, but may still get some benefits of bulking.

I just started leangains IF with +20% 3x/wk, -20% 4x/wk and am subjectively seeing better results that when I ate at maintenance daily.

No_Finish_Line

i don't know that it would work so well for me.

I say this because when i'm cutting, it seems like it takes a lot time of eating at a surplus before i start gaining, and even harder when i want to cut, seems like a long time before i start seeing results.

seems like this wouldn't get me anywhere. but i don't like the cycle of man boobs/no man boobs so maybe i'll try this next time.


you would definetly need patience

FrnkLft

Consider calorie cycling. Above maintenance on lift days, below maintenance on rest days. As long as the calories balance out for the week you will maintain, but may still get some benefits of bulking.

I just started leangains IF with +20% 3x/wk, -20% 4x/wk and am subjectively seeing better results that when I ate at maintenance daily.

I think calorie cycling is getting into the weeds. I mean, your body builds the muscle on rest days, but from where does it draw the nutrients? Game day or rest day? And would anyone really want to make things this complicated if by the end of the week like you said, average calorie intake is the same and weight wouldn't have changed?

wild_wild_life

Consider calorie cycling. Above maintenance on lift days, below maintenance on rest days. As long as the calories balance out for the week you will maintain, but may still get some benefits of bulking.

I just started leangains IF with +20% 3x/wk, -20% 4x/wk and am subjectively seeing better results that when I ate at maintenance daily.

I think calorie cycling is getting into the weeds. I mean, your body builds the muscle on rest days, but from where does it draw the nutrients? Game day or rest day? And would anyone really want to make things this complicated if by the end of the week like you said, average calorie intake is the same and weight wouldn't have changed?

Yeah, I know, I'm not sure about it. I think the idea is that your body is more likely to use the calories (high protein/carb) you provide it on lifting days to repair/build muscle than it is to store excess calories as fat because the need for muscle repair and hormonal conditions optimizing repair (eg high insulin sensitivity) is timed to correspond with the provision of those nutrients. Then on rest days, you won't be storing fat because you're at a deficit. I know the body continues to build muscle on rest days though.

Personally I do like being able to eat more sometimes so it works out psychologically for me anyway.

kyleekay10

I was wondering about this just the other day. Great information, thank you!

Daws387

So far a lot of what I read on this thread has been very helpful...thanks guys

I'm considering going into maintenance in a couple of weeks after I finish my second round of Insanity. As of Monday I weigh 192 lbs (down from 234 in June) with 17% body fat. Height is 6'2"

My body fat percentage is not quite where I want it to be, but my dad, who sees me every day thinks I've lost enough weight (yes feel free to judge, I don't blame you). It's probably time for a new challenge any way.

Here's my question...throughout my weight loss I've also been lifting heavy, above average IMO for someone eating at a deficit. I'll post some numbers below, plz feel free to let me know if my assumptions are off lol. I'm wondering how going into maintenance after being in a deficit for 4 months will affect me in terms of muscle mass gain. Since I already have the strength will it benefit more, or will it be the same as someone who isn't able to lift as much? Or less of a benefit?

Any knowledge, advice, thoughts, opinions, input, encouragement, or discouragement would be great!

DEADLIFT One Rep Max : 353; 1RM/body weight ratio: 1.84
SQUAT: 432; 2.25
LEG PRESS: 749; 3.81

No_Finish_Line

not exactly sure what your asking, but the weight training while you were in a defecit helped you hang on to more muscle, so your ahead of the game in that respect.

I don't think the amount of weight you were lifting really mattered that much. wether you were lifting a weight you could only do 3 times or one you could only do 10, as long as your going to failure your giving yourself enough stimulis to help hang onto the muscle.

strength is not a one to one ratio to muscle mass

Daws387

not exactly sure what your asking, but the weight training while you were in a defecit helped you hang on to more muscle, so your ahead of the game in that respect.

I don't think the amount of weight you were lifting really mattered that much. wether you were lifting a weight you could only do 3 times or one you could only do 10, as long as your going to failure your giving yourself enough stimulis to help hang onto the muscle.

strength is not a one to one ratio to muscle mass

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but you did answer my question, thanks No_Finish_Line. I guess I just needed some reassurance that I was going about the weight loss the right way. We'll see what happens when I go into maintenance, I will try to be patient with it.

No_Finish_Line

patience is definetly key when trying to change the way you look. good luck, sounds like we are basically following the same path

jollyjoe321

You put muscle on, no question.

moxiept

BUMP. I am nearing my goal weight and getting ready to start new goals. In for the info.

Me too!

heybales

Here's one study of guys at maintenance, slowly trading fat for LBM.
Sadly they did not do better than LBM to know how much was actually muscle mass, but likely some amount was. They also don't get in to how athletic, so they could also have been packing in increased blood volume for starting to workout, or more glucose with water stores, ect.

But does show possibly how slow at maintenance, 3 lbs over 16 weeks trade.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/778012-potential-muscle-gain-lifting-and-metabolism-improvement

Of course since metabolism went up, have to adjust that food intake to confirm still at maintenance mode.

sijomial

Here's one study of guys at maintenance, slowly trading fat for LBM.
Sadly they did not do better than LBM to know how much was actually muscle mass, but likely some amount was. They also don't get in to how athletic, so they could also have been packing in increased blood volume for starting to workout, or more glucose with water stores, ect.

But does show possibly how slow at maintenance, 3 lbs over 16 weeks trade.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/778012-potential-muscle-gain-lifting-and-metabolism-improvement

Of course since metabolism went up, have to adjust that food intake to confirm still at maintenance mode.

Interesting but also disappointing that they leave so many variables in place with these studies!

Kind of mimics my experience though as I've tracked my calories eaten and burned this year in a spread sheet and along with estimated BMR/RMR the figures never quite added up with my weight loss (lost more than I "should" have). With the 10lb I've lost my BMR/RMR should be dropping but unless my cals eaten are over-estimated or my cals burned are under estimated then the most likely explanation is that my BMR/RMR has gone up and not down.

Rickyjames123

you can maintain calorie by including proper diet in your daily routine.