why eat less than a surplus on "rest days"

SonyaCele

i keep reading about people calorie cycling, or eating at maint or below on a rest day - during a bulk cycle. Why is this? I'm most hungry on my rest days , i figured my body was starving for nutrition to repair the muscles i just crushed the day before? Why would i not want to eat to nourish the repair. On my lift days , i would probably be fine lifting on a maintainence number, since the actual lifting isn't draining my body of all its life force like the repair is. Well it kinda is, but its just a quick burst of energy needed rather than an all day drawn out repair job, and i can lift weights on a handful of crackers. I am eating at a surplus every day cause my body is screaming feed me.

so i'm wondering why is it some of you eat at maint or even below on rest days? is this somethign i should be doing to help my bulk? or is it just a fat control thing, to keep from gaining too much fat during the bulk?

MityMax96

For me it is because I am doing LeanGains style of Intermittent Fasting.....
So my workout days are high calorie, and my rest days are low calorie.....

So from what I have read and understand regarding the plan, doing the calorie cycle thing works pretty well.

I think others may do it because on workout days, they want to eat a lot of food, while rest days they are fine eating very little....
So be end of week the calories are balanced out.....

Others maintain the same calories / macros daily.....

So whatever works best for you, you should do it.
Monitor it, and if in 2 - 3 weeks, you are not liking the direction you are going, you can alter the eating routine you are on.

Obey46

No need to eat excess calories if no workout/exercise is involved. The longer the weight gain, the less fat you will gain. 1-2lbs per month is more realistic for leaner gains.

Forever bulking crew here so I'm bulking at a slow pace.

SideSteel

I think some people believe that they somehow aren't still rebuilding/growing on their rest days so if they reduce intake on rest days they'll somehow not gain as much fat.

Given the same total calorie intakes I don't believe this to be true, at least not at this time.


I could see merit in choosing whichever approach gives you the best gym performance while still allowing you to hit your total calorie and macronutrient requirements. For ME, eating more on a rest day is superior because I train in the AM and I seem to perform better in that scenario.

joeggarcia

I eat the same amount of calories daily while bulking because my calorie intake is specifically designed for everyday eating. I believe some ppl do it to minimize fat gain, but in my mind i think that the body needs energy/calories to repair as the muscle repair takes approx 36 - 48 hours i believe, so i always want to be at surplus, although it might not be necassary.

born2drum

I eat the same amount of calories everyday unless I do a lot of cardio but I stay in the 2100-2300 range. I tend to get more hungry on leg days, though.

shapefitter

I eat 2000 kcal and I burn on average 800 kcal a day. Why complecate things?

Showcase_Brodown

It may just come down to preferences. The idea of eating less on a rest day is because you would not be burning as much for energy that day, and the idea behind eating more on a workout day is usually to make up for the used calories or take advantage of an anabolic window* just in case it matters. I personally haven't tried to compare my results between calorie cycling and steady day-to-day calories, but I suspect there is little to no difference given the same weekly calories. Do what feels best to you, or gives you the best energy for your workouts, or proves to work better for you for whatever reason.

*By anabolic window, I'm not talking about 30 minutes. It may be more like 24 hours following the lifting workout.

mustgetmuscles1

Like the others have said I think it is to do with minimizing fat gain. Probably wont make a big difference but I do not think they realize that muscle protein synthesis stays elevated for up to 36 hours after a work out. They are limiting calories during the peak of the growing window.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8563679

The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise.
MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE.
Source
Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario.
Abstract
It has been shown that muscle protein synthetic rate (MPS) is elevated in humans by 50% at 4 hrs following a bout of heavy resistance training, and by 109% at 24 hrs following training. This study further examined the time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis by examining its rate at 36 hrs following a training session. Six healthy young men performed 12 sets of 6- to 12-RM elbow flexion exercises with one arm while the opposite arm served as a control. MPS was calculated from the in vivo rate of incorporation of L-[1,2-13C2] leucine into biceps brachii of both arms using the primed constant infusion technique over 11 hrs. At an average time of 36 hrs postexercise, MPS in the exercised arm had returned to within 14% of the control arm value, the difference being nonsignificant. It is concluded that following a bout of heavy resistance training, MPS increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hrs, and thereafter declines rapidly so that at 36 hrs it has almost returned to baseline.

scimitarslash

yup all about minimizing fat gain, in the end it all depends on you. If you drop weight easily, like me, then eat surplus every day and gain your muscle, along with some extra fat, quicker, then cut back downon calories to cut. this works for many people. If you have trouble dropping weight then slow and steady wins the race. High calories on lift days, maintenence on rest days. takes a lot longer to get your gains this way but with less fat added and less to shred. Really up to you in the end.
Best.

Leadfoot_Lewis

I usually eat the same amount of calories everyday, regardless if it's a rest day or not. I'm of the opinion that my body needs calories on rest days to recover from the previous day's workout. Sometimes on weekends I'll double up on workouts in which case I'll try to eat a little more. I have a heck of a time putting on weight, so this has worked for me so far.

Amadbro

Makes me laugh how many people are scared of gaining a little extra fat. You're body needs the extra cals on rest days for repair..enjoy your slow gains. Burning fat is so quick and easy it isn't funny after you've done it once.

me and a bud of mine (who is "lean bulking" with LG) started our bulk around the same time and I'm destroying him in the gym in all PRs for the big 3 lifts and am looking much bigger. He's since switched to the same "old school" bulking like me and says he's much happier with the results.

calorie cycling is fine on a cut and can help you destroy plateau after plateau but I seriously don't think it has a place in bulking.

carolinee420

I'll just fix the problem by never having rest days! Lol cardio EVERY DAY!

And to the guy saying it makes you laugh that people are afraid to gain weight? Seriously? Why are you on my fitness pal then?

JoRocka

I'll just fix the problem by never having rest days! Lol cardio EVERY DAY!

And to the guy saying it makes you laugh that people are afraid to gain weight? Seriously? Why are you on my fitness pal then?

not sure if being funny or not... but If you are bulking it's pretty much 100% necessary to get over some fat gain. You can't get appreciable muscle or bulking without some fat gain.

It happens a lot people have that fear- and the reality is- you gotta just get over it.

secondly- you should have rest days. Seriously. you need them. cardio ever day- especially if you are bulking is just not a wise idea.

43mmmgoody21

You don't have to eat a different amount each day-- remember your body needs rest and calories on off days to grow.

I find it easier to just eat the same amount every day.

It's about the total calories over time. It is, and always has been (whether losing weight, maintaining, or gaining), about calories in vs. calories out.

3laine75

I don't see the point either. Surely it's just as important, if not more so, for recovery. I've been tempted to add a 'fast' day to help my cut, but haven't done so as there's no point knocking my pan in with the weights just for nothing to be built, repaired or maintained on that particular day.

I'm of the opinion that my system isn't that fast that it can decipher between work days and rest days and I'm pretty sure there's still a lot going on in there. I think this would be even more crucial during a bulk - why go to the hassle of eating more on work days for all your work to be undone the next day?

jimmmer

And to the guy saying it makes you laugh that people are afraid to gain weight? Seriously? Why are you on my fitness pal then? JERK.

Because this is in the section for people who want to gain muscle weight. And that means a certain amount of fat gain along with the muscle. And that means you just have to make peace with it and not be afraid to put on a bit of chub if you want the muscle.

People are often so afraid of putting on a bit of fat that they never really end up putting on any muscle either. Which is the thrust of the thread.

__freckles__

My philosophy is that muscle grows on your rest days. So why would you want to stunt that growth by eating less calories? I follow TDEE, so I ate at a surplus every day during my bulk. Made it a hell of a lot easier and I did just fine - gained 8 pounds in 15 weeks.

jimmmer

To answer the OP. I'm not sure if it's bollocks or not. But proponents of this style of eating say it improves your p-ratio.

There's obviously leangains (although I think you're meant to just eat maintenance on your non-lifting days if you're bulking on it). And LM's UD2.0 has a variant where you do all the crazy depletion stuff earlier in the week at a slight deficit and then do the power/strength stuff later in the week at a massive surplus/carb up.

Anecdotal reports from users of both have stayed lean while adding mass. But then you've got to ask: would they have stayed lean just eating a mild surplus and doing the same thing? They may have been genetically gifted, young, male, lean: basically, all the things that lend themselves to a favourable p-ratio. And with no counter-class, who can say?

It may even be behavioural, in that the discipline necessary to keep the cycling going, stops you going too far into fulking territory, which is easy to slip into when you're bulking (finally, I can eat all the foods, etc)

Springfield1970

Good topic!

In fact, I'm on a day after leg day today and am getting a scavenger type feeling looking in my cupboard.( you know, BREaD! Mmmm HONEY mm HONEY sandwich!) I'm burning more to repair today, as my weights went up again yesterday I think.

I do it like this...

On a bulk, I spread the 1700 extra calories evenly over the week.

Any other time, maintenance or cutting, I not only eat my exercise calories back, I load them into a window around the workout. Ie lots of carbs before, lots of protein and carbs after.

I don't believe in carb fuelling when I'm not working out, like on a rest day, I stick to my maintenance calories, BUT I eat adequate protein and loads of fruits and vegetables to tick the micro boxes and keep the inflammation down.

I believe my approach gives me optimum fuelling for good performance, and fast recovery and repair. Without any fat storage on rest days.

My question is this...maybe Sidesteel can answer as he mentioned loading the night before ready for the morning workout.

I fuel 3 hours before morning workouts, I'm up early naturally and eat as soon as.

I believe and have read that one will be glycogen depleted in the morning anyway, so there's no point loading the night before, if it doesn't get used, at what point does the body decide to store it as fat? I know muscles store glycogen, but for how long?

That's why I try and keep my carb loads for pre exercise. Plus I've usually used them all up the morning and lunch anyway to fuel the cycling etc I do to work.

MCTeasley1

This is for fat loss, considering you don't lift weights 6 days/week. It's all about carb cycling, protein stays the same. Why would you want to eat so many carbs on non-workout days? Doesn't make sense as this will lead to added body fat. If you are meeting protein macros on rest days then you are still giving your body the nutrients to repair. Protein builds muscle, carbs don't.

biorobotics

whoa, i thought this forum was for people who wanted to gain weight, not 'stay lean' and 'minimize fat gain'.

jeanybeans

MCTeasley1 wrote: »

This is for fat loss, considering you don't lift weights 6 days/week. It's all about carb cycling, protein stays the same. Why would you want to eat so many carbs on non-workout days? Doesn't make sense as this will lead to added body fat. If you are meeting protein macros on rest days then you are still giving your body the nutrients to repair. Protein builds muscle, carbs don't.

Wrong. Calories build muscle, carbs included.

ForecasterJason

biorobotics wrote: »

whoa, i thought this forum was for people who wanted to gain weight, not 'stay lean' and 'minimize fat gain'.

I would say this section includes those of us looking to slowly build muscle while staying lean and minimizing fat gain.

NRBreit

All that I can say is that when you're 15-20 weeks into a bulk, pushing hard in the gym, sore as hell, eating your face off, and the scale still isn't consistently going up, you're not looking to push away from the table on your non-workout days.

Megmo127

joeggarcia wrote: »

I eat the same amount of calories daily while bulking because my calorie intake is specifically designed for everyday eating. I believe some ppl do it to minimize fat gain, but in my mind i think that the body needs energy/calories to repair as the muscle repair takes approx 36 - 48 hours i believe, so i always want to be at surplus, although it might not be necassary.

Ditto to this.

PwrLftr82

NRBreit wrote: »

All that I can say is that when you're 15-20 weeks into a bulk, pushing hard in the gym, sore as hell, eating your face off, and the scale still isn't consistently going up, you're not looking to push away from the table on your non-workout days.

True that!

I just like eating...why restrict myself on rest (aka muscle repair) days?

jcranston13

Because after testing over a years time each style, I was able to bulk leaner with calorie cycling than static calories over the course of a week. Try things, log, take measurements, there is no easy answer that works for all people.

LolBroScience

jcranston13 wrote: »

Because after testing over a years time each style, I was able to bulk leaner with calorie cycling than static calories over the course of a week. Try things, log, take measurements, there is no easy answer that works for all people.

Because of a smaller surplus

PwrLftr82

LolBroScience wrote: »

jcranston13 wrote: »

Because after testing over a years time each style, I was able to bulk leaner with calorie cycling than static calories over the course of a week. Try things, log, take measurements, there is no easy answer that works for all people.

Because of a smaller surplus

BOOM! Mind = Blown.

JeffseekingV

SonyaCele wrote: »

i keep reading about people calorie cycling, or eating at maint or below on a rest day - during a bulk cycle. Why is this? I'm most hungry on my rest days , i figured my body was starving for nutrition to repair the muscles i just crushed the day before? Why would i not want to eat to nourish the repair. On my lift days , i would probably be fine lifting on a maintainence number, since the actual lifting isn't draining my body of all its life force like the repair is. Well it kinda is, but its just a quick burst of energy needed rather than an all day drawn out repair job, and i can lift weights on a handful of crackers. I am eating at a surplus every day cause my body is screaming feed me.

so i'm wondering why is it some of you eat at maint or even below on rest days? is this somethign i should be doing to help my bulk? or is it just a fat control thing, to keep from gaining too much fat during the bulk?

Over the course of a week, is your net calories still end up in the correct surplus amounts?