How much REAL muscle gain from a bulk cycle?

NRBreit

For the sake of discussion, let's assume the target weight gain is 15 lbs. over 4 months (approx. 1 lb per week). Of those 15 lbs., assume 5 lbs. comes from water/glycogen. Of the remaining 10 lbs.gained, assume a 1:1 partitioning ratio where 5 lbs. is actual muscle gain and 5 lbs. is fat. So, assume 5 lbs. actual muscle gain in 4 months.

Now let's move to the cut phase. Assume a target weight loss of 15 lbs. over 4 months (approx. 1 lb per week). Again, assume 5 of those lbs. are water glycogen depletion. Now, for the remaining 10 lbs. lost, assume a 30% muscle loss. So, a 7 lb. fat loss and a 3 lb. muscle loss.

So, over a 7-8 month period, the net body recomposiiton would be +2 lbs. of muscle and -2 lbs. of fat. at the same before/after weight.

Assuming a solid training plan and consistent eating with plenty of protein, are these results what someone should expect? Any flaws in the logic above?

waxon81

Sounds about right, the truth is its a desperately small amount! If anybody claims double digit muscle gain in a year they are either
A) lying
using steroids

I've read here and there that as a teenager it is potentially possible, with perfect training and diet to grow up to double digits. However, as a grown man you can basically forget adding inches to your arms/ thighs in anything close to the short term. The older I get the more I notice this. I can honestly say I doubt anybody is capable of adding more than 5lbs of lean muscle in a year.

I'm depressing myself.....

SideSteel

For the sake of discussion, let's assume the target weight gain is 15 lbs. over 4 months (approx. 1 lb per week). Of those 15 lbs., assume 5 lbs. comes from water/glycogen. Of the remaining 10 lbs.gained, assume a 1:1 partitioning ratio where 5 lbs. is actual muscle gain and 5 lbs. is fat. So, assume 5 lbs. actual muscle gain in 4 months.

Now let's move to the cut phase. Assume a target weight loss of 15 lbs. over 4 months (approx. 1 lb per week). Again, assume 5 of those lbs. are water glycogen depletion. Now, for the remaining 10 lbs. lost, assume a 30% muscle loss. So, a 7 lb. fat loss and a 3 lb. muscle loss.

So, over a 7-8 month period, the net body recomposiiton would be +2 lbs. of muscle and -2 lbs. of fat. at the same before/after weight.

Assuming a solid training plan and consistent eating with plenty of protein, are these results what someone should expect? Any flaws in the logic above?

Total opinion at this point:

I would find a 30% loss of muscle on a cut to be quite high unless you're cutting quite low.

alpha_andy

Sounds consistent with what I've read. I would be very curious how the results would change with consistent daily usage of BCAAs during both bulk and cut cycles.

fleetzz

Wow, so as a woman I have little chance of gaining much muscle --sad.

Sounds about right, the truth is its a desperately small amount! If anybody claims double digit muscle gain in a year they are either
A) lying
using steroids

I've read here and there that as a teenager it is potentially possible, with perfect training and diet to grow up to double digits. However, as a grown man you can basically forget adding inches to your arms/ thighs in anything close to the short term. The older I get the more I notice this. I can honestly say I doubt anybody is capable of adding more than 5lbs of lean muscle in a year.

I'm depressing myself.....

MercenaryNoetic26

Bump

V0lver

For the sake of discussion, let's assume the target weight gain is 15 lbs. over 4 months (approx. 1 lb per week). Of those 15 lbs., assume 5 lbs. comes from water/glycogen. Of the remaining 10 lbs.gained, assume a 1:1 partitioning ratio where 5 lbs. is actual muscle gain and 5 lbs. is fat. So, assume 5 lbs. actual muscle gain in 4 months.

Now let's move to the cut phase. Assume a target weight loss of 15 lbs. over 4 months (approx. 1 lb per week). Again, assume 5 of those lbs. are water glycogen depletion. Now, for the remaining 10 lbs. lost, assume a 30% muscle loss. So, a 7 lb. fat loss and a 3 lb. muscle loss.

So, over a 7-8 month period, the net body recomposiiton would be +2 lbs. of muscle and -2 lbs. of fat. at the same before/after weight.

Assuming a solid training plan and consistent eating with plenty of protein, are these results what someone should expect? Any flaws in the logic above?

Total opinion at this point:

I would find a 30% loss of muscle on a cut to be quite high unless you're cutting quite low.

i agree. With a reasonable calorie deficit,high protein diet and heavy weight training, LBM loss would be negligible unless you decide to go down below 12 % bf.

Tricep_A_Tops_

I can usually gain 2.5 lbs of muscle per month during a bulk. Im 43, someone younger might be able to gain more per month. I also agree with sidesteel that a 30% loss in lean muscle during a cut is very high. ( atleast in my experience) Great topic OP.

ninerbuff

For the sake of discussion, let's assume the target weight gain is 15 lbs. over 4 months (approx. 1 lb per week). Of those 15 lbs., assume 5 lbs. comes from water/glycogen. Of the remaining 10 lbs.gained, assume a 1:1 partitioning ratio where 5 lbs. is actual muscle gain and 5 lbs. is fat. So, assume 5 lbs. actual muscle gain in 4 months.

Now let's move to the cut phase. Assume a target weight loss of 15 lbs. over 4 months (approx. 1 lb per week). Again, assume 5 of those lbs. are water glycogen depletion. Now, for the remaining 10 lbs. lost, assume a 30% muscle loss. So, a 7 lb. fat loss and a 3 lb. muscle loss.

So, over a 7-8 month period, the net body recomposiiton would be +2 lbs. of muscle and -2 lbs. of fat. at the same before/after weight.

Assuming a solid training plan and consistent eating with plenty of protein, are these results what someone should expect? Any flaws in the logic above?

Logic is correct. As mentioned, if one is gaining more (especially a female), they are either superbly genetically endowed or using chemical enhancement to attain it.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

I can usually gain 2.5 lbs of muscle per month during a bulk. Im 43, someone younger might be able to gain more per month. I also agree with sidesteel that a 30% loss in lean muscle during a cut is very high. ( atleast in my experience) Great topic OP.

You should write a book then because professionals who do it are happy to gain 10lbs of muscle in a year.................with drugs.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I_mustacheU4pancakes

Bullcrap.

takumaku

I can usually gain 2.5 lbs of muscle per month during a bulk. Im 43, someone younger might be able to gain more per month. I also agree with sidesteel that a 30% loss in lean muscle during a cut is very high. ( atleast in my experience) Great topic OP.

You should write a book then because professionals who do it are happy to gain 10lbs of muscle in a year.................with drugs.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I agree, write a book. I'm on gel (replacement therapy) and I am happy when I gain some muscle mass. 6 month followup had my lean mass shoot from 123 to 133.

Tricep_A_Tops_

Ninerbuff. Why try to be a smart *kitten*? I agree to a point if i was an advanced bodybuilder that was close to reaching his genetic potential. But i am far from being considered " advanced " or anywhere close to my gentic potential. I have been lifting for 2 + plus years with the majority of that time eating at a deficit or maintaining. I might have spent 7-8 months buliking since i reached my goal weight of 203 lbs and now weigh 219 lbs.

jasonpclement

a pound a month of muscle would be very difficult unless it was someone just starting out.

I'd reccomend going at it slowly. Just a 2-500 calorie surplus. And just track. If you dont gain, add another 200 cals.

jollyjoe321

So, at that rate, how much slowly is a body recomp, all things considered?

Mr_Knight

I might have spent 7-8 months buliking since i reached my goal weight of 203 lbs and now weigh 219 lbs.

That 16 pounds isn't "muscle".

mustgetmuscles1

A lot of variables that are not in your example.

Experience level, age and starting body fat level being big ones.

An average male within the first couple years of training could realistically gain around a pound of muscle per month.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html

With a sensible surplus you could be shooting for around a 1:1 ratio of fat and muscle. The couple pounds of water between cutting and bulking is something a lot of people dont think about but it goes on pretty fast in the beginning and comes off pretty fast when you start cutting.

Depending on how lean you started out a 1 pound per week loss for the whole cutting cycle might be bit aggressive.

So in 8 months you could bulk for 4 of them gaining around 8lbs. Half muscle, half fat. Cut for the next 4 months losing about .5 lbs a week. With a this slow cut, enough protein and proper training you should have almost no muscle loss. In the end you could be the same-ish body fat % you started at but with 4 lbs of new muscle.

If you did this for the whole year you would see about 5-6 lbs of new muscle. I bet this is pretty much what most men realistically gain in a year if they care at all about staying somewhat lean.

ninerbuff

Ninerbuff. Why try to be a smart *kitten*? I agree to a point if i was an advanced bodybuilder that was close to reaching his genetic potential. But i am far from being considered " advanced " or anywhere close to my gentic potential. I have been lifting for 2 + plus years with the majority of that time eating at a deficit or maintaining. I might have spent 7-8 months buliking since i reached my goal weight of 203 lbs and now weigh 219 lbs.

7-8 months and a 16lb gain with NO FAT gained? Stating you gain 2lbs a month at 43 years old (without peak test levels), that adds up to 14-16lbs. Sorry not believing it unless you're on gear. Bulking results in fat gain as well as muscle gain. Not trying to be a smart *kitten*, just following the guidelines of physiology.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I_mustacheU4pancakes

So if no one supports .6 pounds of muscle gain per week
Why is the recommendation all over this site and others to gain
.5 pounds per week when bulking?
Lets say someone who has never lifted in a surplus and starts
Lifting at .5 pounds gain per week and over the.course of 10 months (40 weeks)
He puts on 20 pounds.
You're telling me that its not going to be almost all muscle?
That doesn't make sense or else everyone would constantly be wasting time in a Continuous
Bulk/cut cycle since gains are 50/50 and losses are 50/50.
Lets even assume all gains are 50/50 and losses 100% fat.
Over the 40 weeks only ten pounds muscle and then another 3 months to cut the fat.
So 13 months to add 10 pounds of muscle to someone in their first year?
Hmmm.

Mr_Knight

Lifting at .5 pounds gain per week and over the.course of 10 months (40 weeks)
He puts on 20 pounds.
You're telling me that its not going to be almost all muscle?
That doesn't make sense or else everyone would constantly be wasting time in a Continuous

Required reading...

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html

I_mustacheU4pancakes

Lifting at .5 pounds gain per week and over the.course of 10 months (40 weeks)
He puts on 20 pounds.
You're telling me that its not going to be almost all muscle?
That doesn't make sense or else everyone would constantly be wasting time in a Continuous

Required reading...

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html

The article says 1 year lifting 2 pounds a month is possible yet you dismiss
The guy above when he claimed 16 pounds in 8 months,which IS 2 pounds per month.
So if you disagree with the article why are you referencing it?