Weight Training for Power - Sports

gmallan

I'm in the off-season of Australian Rules Football and looking to transition into a weights program that involves more power (i.e. moving weight quickly) than strength. Any suggestions for programs that would be worth checking out would be appreciated

Thanks in advance

ChrisLindsay9

I'm no expert, so I'm bumping this in case others may have a suggestion.

But isn't olympic-style lifting typically the go-to for training power?

http://danjohn.net/beginners/
http://www.pendlay.com/A-Training-System-for-Beginning-Olympic-Weightlifters_df_90.html

HelloDan

Yes, weightlifting.

Cleans, snatches, jerks and the different variations of them.

ninerbuff

Along with Olympic lifts look for programs that also include plyometrics with explosive movements. Some of the ones I do are:

Box Jumps with weights
Burpee to a pull up
Heavy kettlebell swings switching hand to hand
Running weight drag

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

jacksonpt

I'm no expert, and I'd take Dan's and Niner's advice over mine, but since you haven't had many replies yet, I'll throw this in (and bump your thread in the process)...

From what I've read, you can do most of the same big lifts you would do for strength, just do them with more explosive movements. Obviously form is still important, but explode into the lift rather than the slow and controlled approach that many people follow/recommend.

HelloDan

In theory that would work, but the problem is that if you just do the 'normal' lifts but fast, you have to slow the barbell or dumb elks down at the end of the movement.

With olympic weightlifting and jumping, you are accelerating the bar or yourself through the whole range of motion, and the in the case of weightlifting reversing your movement, and getting under the bar before gravity has slowed it and reversed its direction.

Throwing is also good for explosive power for the same reason, you accelerate what you are throwing untill you release it, you don't have to decelerate the object being thrown.

HelloDan

I love those dumb elks! That's dumbbells + autocorrect!

Cherimoose

Personally i would a follow traditional lifting program, to maintain strength & mass, and simply add speed exercises using relatively low loads, since that's what you encounter in football. So add jumping lunges, jumping squats, kettlebell swings, medicine ball wall throws, speed skaters, etc. Definitely include some rotational movement, since traditional lifting programs lack that, but it's used in all sports. Medicine ball twisting exercises like this could come in handy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYnM7vSt5RM
If you don't have a medicine ball, hold a dumb elk. :bigsmile:

rjmudlax13

Along with Olympic lifts look for programs that also include plyometrics with explosive movements. Some of the ones I do are:

Box Jumps with weights
Burpee to a pull up
Heavy kettlebell swings switching hand to hand
Running weight drag

This. Plyometrics FTW.

JNick77

Olympic lifting is not the only way to build speed. Max effort methods also require to use momentum, you are not going to move a heavy load without applying maximum force.

Westside for Skinny *kitten* 3 by Joe DeFranco. Before people freak out and are like "ZOMG, dat's da' Westside and even though I don't know *kitten* about it I'm going to say it's too complicated and you should do SL5x5 because it worked for me", let me say that it's a somewhat scaled back version of Westside that has definitely been simplified, you don't have to worry about bands, chains, or anything crazy; it is very simple. Joe has further tailored to athletes because that is his primary clientele. The program includes Max Effort training, Volume, and Dynamic effort in the form of Plyometrics. Again, it is very easy to use.

The top part of the web-page includes his off-season training routine which is a 4-day split. Towards the middle of the page he discusses his Speed and Strength template which tells you exactly what you're doing. For example, on the Tuesday workout you only focus on things like mobility and different speed and agility drills. After that section there is an in-season training section which gives you a workout plan to follow so you can maintain strength while you're playing.

http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/65-westside-for-skinny-*kitten*-part3.html

Again, this is very easy to use and is a complete program for an athlete.

JNick77

In theory that would work, but the problem is that if you just do the 'normal' lifts but fast, you have to slow the barbell or dumb elks down at the end of the movement.

With olympic weightlifting and jumping, you are accelerating the bar or yourself through the whole range of motion, and the in the case of weightlifting reversing your movement, and getting under the bar before gravity has slowed it and reversed its direction.

Throwing is also good for explosive power for the same reason, you accelerate what you are throwing untill you release it, you don't have to decelerate the object being thrown.

You're decelerating more with Dynamic Effort lifting than you are with Maximal Effort lifting. The DE lift is fast and explosive and due to the light weight being used you are somewhat launching it and have to decelerate a little. That's not necessarily the case with ME lifting as you are applying maximum force to initiate the concentric, it is NOT a slow controlled movement even though the actual movement of the weight might be slow. Even if you're doing something like a Power Clean or Snatch right around your 1RM to 3RM that weight isn't moving as fast as it would if you were lifting 70% to 75% of that weight. I'm not saying that Olympic lifting isn't a good way to develop speed, it just isn't the only way. That's why things like Russian Conjugate get used so frequently with athletes and have been successful since the 1950's.

From what I've read, you can do most of the same big lifts you would do for strength, just do them with more explosive movements. Obviously form is still important, but explode into the lift rather than the slow and controlled approach that many people follow/recommend.

Hey jackson! Yeah, that's pretty much it. But it's not really you can as in "if you want to", that's the way at least the major compound lifts should be done.

HelloDan

You're decelerating more with Dynamic Effort lifting than you are with Maximal Effort lifting. The DE lift is fast and explosive and due to the light weight being used you are somewhat launching it and have to decelerate a little. That's not necessarily the case with ME lifting as you are applying maximum force to initiate the concentric, it is NOT a slow controlled movement even though the actual movement of the weight might be slow. Even if you're doing something like a Power Clean or Snatch right around your 1RM to 3RM that weight isn't moving as fast as it would if you were lifting 70% to 75% of that weight. I'm not saying that Olympic lifting isn't a good way to develop speed, it just isn't the only way. That's why things like Russian Conjugate get used so frequently with athletes and have been successful since the 1950's.

I typed a load of stuff, then changed my mind, as I'm not sure we're on the same page, when I say decelerate, I mean that say you do a bench press, as you approach lock out, you have to slow down the weight, because it stops at the top, because of this, as you approach lock out, you reduce the force you're applying, so the bar decellerates and then stops locked out. When you clean, you keep accelerating the bar, until you reach end ROM, as the bar will continue to travel upwards after this point, so you've been accelerating the load the whole time. In both cases, I'm not referring to how the amount of load may affect your ability to move the bar, and how it may slow down if it's too heavy.

Also, remember speed is only one part of the power application, high speed and low force isn't optimal, neither is low speed and high force, peak power will be somewhere in the middle. In terms of sporting performance, you generally want to be able to apply as big a force as you can, as quickly as you can.

jimmmer

Olympic lifting would be a great idea, I agree.

If for some reason that's not a goer for you, then you can develop power with kettlebells, too.

Kb snatches, swings, double C&J's are all great power builders.

Plyos (done properly in the original soviet style for low reps, maximum explosiveness) are a great suggestion also.

JNick77

You're decelerating more with Dynamic Effort lifting than you are with Maximal Effort lifting. The DE lift is fast and explosive and due to the light weight being used you are somewhat launching it and have to decelerate a little. That's not necessarily the case with ME lifting as you are applying maximum force to initiate the concentric, it is NOT a slow controlled movement even though the actual movement of the weight might be slow. Even if you're doing something like a Power Clean or Snatch right around your 1RM to 3RM that weight isn't moving as fast as it would if you were lifting 70% to 75% of that weight. I'm not saying that Olympic lifting isn't a good way to develop speed, it just isn't the only way. That's why things like Russian Conjugate get used so frequently with athletes and have been successful since the 1950's.

I typed a load of stuff, then changed my mind, as I'm not sure we're on the same page, when I say decelerate, I mean that say you do a bench press, as you approach lock out, you have to slow down the weight, because it stops at the top, because of this, as you approach lock out, you reduce the force you're applying, so the bar decellerates and then stops locked out. When you clean, you keep accelerating the bar, until you reach end ROM, as the bar will continue to travel upwards after this point, so you've been accelerating the load the whole time. In both cases, I'm not referring to how the amount of load may affect your ability to move the bar, and how it may slow down if it's too heavy.

Also, remember speed is only one part of the power application, high speed and low force isn't optimal, neither is low speed and high force, peak power will be somewhere in the middle. In terms of sporting performance, you generally want to be able to apply as big a force as you can, as quickly as you can.

No, I think we're saying the same thing or at least on the same page. My point is training an athlete for explosiveness and power isn't limited to Olympic lifts. The same can and IS taught via your basic compound lifts and plyometrics. Simmons, DeFranco, and Chad Smith all talk about this as they train a lot of athletes and even consult professional football teams on their lifting programs.

gmallan

Wow, pretty impressed with all the replies and the quality of the responses. Looks like I have some reading to do

HelloDan

Yeah, definitely a lot to discover in this area.

Anyway, really I just wanted an excuse to post this video I saw today. I wish I had one of Vasily Alexeev doing a vertical jump, as that always shocks people, but it's still a good example of how the power from weightlifting applies to general sports.

http://youtu.be/Zg2Z1pusas8