Anyone clued up on employment law?

TheRoadDog

You should have asked for advice before you announced you were leaving. I would have told you to say nothing until you had your start date, and, even then, give them only 2 weeks notice until your last day. I don't care what your relationship is with your current employer -- how much notice would they give you if there was a layoff?

There is really no advice to give at this point. You already dealt the cards. What may be even worse is that, you don't get the job for some reason, but your current employer knows you have been looking. What happens if you stay and an opportunity comes up at you current employer and you and Susie both apply. Know one knows if Susie is unhappy at work, but your employer knows you have already been aout there looking.

Unless you are in a Union, most companys are "at will" employers and can let you go at any time.

Have you actually read any of this thread?

1. Both myself and my employer have to give 4 weeks notice if my contract comes to an end for whatever reason.

2. I have the job, I have a signed contract for the job with pay etc on it, but a start date of 'TBC'.

3. I'm from the UK. 'At will' does not exist here.

Sorry I butted in. Sounds like you got it all figured out. What are you asking advice for then?

KeViN_v2pt0

Ok, so I was recently offered a job elsewhere, for a company I've always wanted to work for. They literally made me an offer I couldn't refuse. The only downside - no start date.

Im not a lawyer either but.... With no start date....theres no offer. Did you sign anything? If not, theres no offer. I think you really made a huge mistake by mentioning anything to your current employer without a legal document holding the company you want to work for responsible (for being unemployed) if for any reason that fell through.

Sorry for your situation but if anything else hopefully you learn something here. My only advice moving forward is to look for someone who can give you legal advice in your state about your situation and the employment laws there.

Jimaudit

The Employment Rights Act 1996 states that, unless the employee repudiates the relationship, before a dismissal every employer must give reasonable notice after one month of work, and after two years employers must provide a sufficiently fair reason for dismissal and redundancy payments for employees made redundant.

So if I assume you are there longer than 2 years you probably have nothing to worry about, unless they fabricate some sufficient reason for termination in which case they still need to provide reasonable notice.

But always consult a lawyer.

folks, time to apply some reading comprehension. She is from the UK so spouting off about "employment at will" doesn't really help her in any meaningful way. Admittedly she has already inserted foot in mouth by saying anything......

lauren3101

I dont know what TUPE means. I am not sure why you are so torn up about not doing the training or what value it is to you since you are leaving the position some time soon. I cant imagine that providing any further training is in the interest of your employer. You just got done telling us that your position is vital to production but then you dont realize that your spending a half day at training is no big deal to your employer. There is a reason they cancelled your training and that is they would be paying you for a half day and you wouldnt be doing anything productive and the productivity of the company would be diminished in your absence so its more that just your pay.

Training is training. :laugh: I want to do any training I can (especially if it's free). I want to improve myself. I'm not sure why that's incomprehensible for you.
Me spending half a day in a training session is not going to bring the company to a halt. Yes, my job is important, but it doesn't require someone 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I am allowed to move from my desk, believe it or not.

JustAnotherGirlSuzanne

If you can, maybe tell them that you're here to stay. You can always quit later. In the future, yeah, don't tell them about a new job.

Funny how trying to be nice oftentimes only ends up backfiring, eh?

rml_16

I dont know what TUPE means. I am not sure why you are so torn up about not doing the training or what value it is to you since you are leaving the position some time soon. I cant imagine that providing any further training is in the interest of your employer. You just got done telling us that your position is vital to production but then you dont realize that your spending a half day at training is no big deal to your employer. There is a reason they cancelled your training and that is they would be paying you for a half day and you wouldnt be doing anything productive and the productivity of the company would be diminished in your absence so its more that just your pay.

Training is training. :laugh: I want to do any training I can (especially if it's free). I want to improve myself. I'm not sure why that's incomprehensible for you.
Me spending half a day in a training session is not going to bring the company to a halt. Yes, my job is important, but it doesn't require someone 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I am allowed to move from my desk, believe it or not.

Does the company have to pay for the training, though? It sounds like they don't want to invest money in training someone who's leaving. I can understand that POV.

cdobrosemd

I would agree that you should probably go to them and tell them that your prospective employer retracted the job offer and that you intend to stay on with them. Then if this new job actually materializes then give your current employer the 4 weeks notice.

belgerian

I would say nothing I had a job offer with a start date but at the last minute they closed down the position due to budget issues. I am glad I said nothing. If anything just say I'm just looking at my options and leave it at that. And if for contractal reasons you have to give x amount of notice I would incorporate that into the job offer and ensure a contract is signed before you quit your current position. If a contract is required.

rieann84

If you really want to go to that training course, try to talk to HR and let them know that. While they may have heard that you were interviewed, nothing is set in stone yet and you haven't put your resignation in writing, You have a right to attend that seminar if you want to.

lauren3101

Hey Lauren, I'm surprised at the HR Director reacting like that. You haven't actually given your notice yet. You spoke informally with your line manager informing him of your intention to leave that's all. You have a contract stating 4 weeks notice. Your employer cannot insist on a longer term than that. Any change to that term, longer or shorter, will have to be mutually agreed.

Now, what if the worst happens and your new employer pushes out the start date indefinitely, or retracts the offer? Have you signed a contract with them by the way? Is there a latest start date? What if that offer doesn't materialise and you have been pushed out of your current role because they have hired your replacement? You need to ensure you are protected.

I can sympathise with your current employer. You are in a critical role and they know it will be difficult to replace you. However, they have no right to stop you going to training and hiring someone to take your role. It is still YOUR role and you have very strong legal rights in the UK. What your employer is doing is tantamount to constructive dismissal. Until you give formal notice you are employed. So your employer either has to sit it out and wait for you to hand in your notice, or they negotiate a full and final settlement with you and you leave, or they terminate your employment without just cause and you take them to an employment appeals tribunal for unfair dismissal. And you will win because they have already shot themselves in the foot with their behaviour so far.

Best approach is to put pressure on your new company to give you a start date and work from there. Good luck.

I have signed a contract, just with no start date. I requested the offer in writing before I made my employer aware.

Thanks for your advice. I need to look up constructive dismissal I think.

Jersey_Devil

ask a lawyer, not a fitness site.

mumblemagic

ask a lawyer, not a fitness site.

This ^^^

and...... I'm pretty sure that in the UK they cannot terminate your contract simply because you stated an intention to leave at some point in the future. Check your contract T&C but I think they have to have a reason to fire you unless they have grounds. Also, verbally informing them does not constitute notice. Email might - did you email them?

lauren3101

You should have asked for advice before you announced you were leaving. I would have told you to say nothing until you had your start date, and, even then, give them only 2 weeks notice until your last day. I don't care what your relationship is with your current employer -- how much notice would they give you if there was a layoff?

There is really no advice to give at this point. You already dealt the cards. What may be even worse is that, you don't get the job for some reason, but your current employer knows you have been looking. What happens if you stay and an opportunity comes up at you current employer and you and Susie both apply. Know one knows if Susie is unhappy at work, but your employer knows you have already been aout there looking.

Unless you are in a Union, most companys are "at will" employers and can let you go at any time.

Have you actually read any of this thread?

1. Both myself and my employer have to give 4 weeks notice if my contract comes to an end for whatever reason.

2. I have the job, I have a signed contract for the job with pay etc on it, but a start date of 'TBC'.

3. I'm from the UK. 'At will' does not exist here.

Sorry I butted in. Sounds like you got it all figured out. What are you asking advice for then?

That's quite alright. If you read the OP, the questions are at the bottom.

WVprankster

Ok, slightly more background info.

I'm in the UK, I have a contract, no union. My contract says nothing about my current situation, only that both parties have to give 4 weeks notice if one wishes to terminate the contract.

That's the thing, I HAVE to give 4 weeks notice, I certainly couldn't walk out of there after 2 days. However because of the job it is, they don't think that 4 weeks is long enough, but if that was so, should they not have requested a longer notice period when I started?

I understand I have probably shot myself in the foot, and I have learnt my lesson! I honestly thought I was doing the right thing.

Is there some...compulsion in your contract for giving notice? Or a financial penalty if you do? Short of the US military (AWOL), I can't think of a job that a body couldn't quit on the spot.

The damage was probably done when you told them in the first place. Perhaps damage control would be to drag your feet in the interview process, or to write a very, very specific and defined job description so that it takes a lot longer to find any qualified applicants.

lauren3101

I dont know what TUPE means. I am not sure why you are so torn up about not doing the training or what value it is to you since you are leaving the position some time soon. I cant imagine that providing any further training is in the interest of your employer. You just got done telling us that your position is vital to production but then you dont realize that your spending a half day at training is no big deal to your employer. There is a reason they cancelled your training and that is they would be paying you for a half day and you wouldnt be doing anything productive and the productivity of the company would be diminished in your absence so its more that just your pay.

Training is training. :laugh: I want to do any training I can (especially if it's free). I want to improve myself. I'm not sure why that's incomprehensible for you.
Me spending half a day in a training session is not going to bring the company to a halt. Yes, my job is important, but it doesn't require someone 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I am allowed to move from my desk, believe it or not.

Does the cmopany have to pay for the training, though? It sounds like they don't want to invest money in training someone who's leaving. I can understand that POV.

No, it's free training for them as it's carried out by employees. It is legally recognised though.

Don't get me wrong I understand completely why they don't want to train me, I'm just not entirely sure whether they have the legal right to pull me out of this training, as I've had it booked for months.

lauren3101

ask a lawyer, not a fitness site.

Don't know about the US, but in the UK, 'solicitors' are expensive.

lauren3101

ask a lawyer, not a fitness site.

This ^^^

and...... I'm pretty sure that in the UK they cannot terminate your contract simply because you stated an intention to leave at some point in the future. Check your contract T&C but I think they have to have a reason to fire you unless they have grounds. Also, verbally informing them does not constitute notice. Email might - did you email them?

No, I didn't email them. My contract doesn't say much about dismissal, just talk about gross misconduct and the procedures around that. It's not very informative at all, in fact, which is why I'm so confused about where I stand.

Jersey_Devil

ask a lawyer, not a fitness site.

Don't know about the US, but in the UK, 'solicitors' are expensive.

i understand that, but "non-solicitors" haha will give you a million different wrong answers.

TheRoadDog

It's a little after 2pm in the UK, right? Are you at work right now?

cdobrosemd

In my position I pay for all my own employment expenses directly. I am also the only individual who brings revenue into the company so I do a brutal calculation on the cost vs. benefit of my own training (and believe me I have to do plenty of it). Just giving you the employers point of view. I am on both sides of it in my job.