Anyone clued up on employment law?

13»

Replies

  • 294Rich
    294Rich Posts: 171 Member
    I do have sufficient experience of this, so i can advise.

    You tell them that you have changed your mind, and you are not leaving. then, you give actual notice to leave when you have a date to start. You request that the new company doesn't seek a reference until you give a green light for that.

    That's it!
  • lauren3101
    lauren3101 Posts: 1,853 Member
    ask a lawyer, not a fitness site.

    Don't know about the US, but in the UK, 'solicitors' are expensive.

    i understand that, but "non-solicitors" haha will give you a million different wrong answers.

    This is true! Just had a couple of people message me about a free service called ACAS, apparently they can help with employment law. Didn't even know they existed! So I'll be giving them a call.
  • lauren3101
    lauren3101 Posts: 1,853 Member
    It's a little after 2pm in the UK, right? Are you at work right now?

    Not today. I have the occasional weekday off as I sometimes have to cover Saturdays.
  • lauren3101
    lauren3101 Posts: 1,853 Member
    I do have sufficient experience of this, so i can advise.

    You tell them that you have changed your mind, and you are not leaving. then, you give actual notice to leave when you have a date to start. You request that the new company doesn't seek a reference until you give a green light for that.

    That's it!

    I think this might be the best thing to say. I am going to speak with the new employer this week and if they don't have a date for me I'll have to go down this route I think. Also going to see what this ACAS say!
  • terricherry2
    terricherry2 Posts: 222 Member
    If your contract says 4 weeks and you never agreed to longer than that, then that's what you're legally required to give. They can't demand you give more notice. A contract is a contract. If you're really worried go speak to CAB. They'll tell you the same thing and might give you something in writing as a backup.
  • CollieFit
    CollieFit Posts: 1,683 Member
    Hi Lauren,

    I'm in the UK and my friend works for the ACAS employment helpline.
    Have you rung them yet? They deal with stuff like this regularly including unfair dismissals etc.

    http://www.acas.org.uk

    08457 47 47 47

    :drinker:
  • CollieFit
    CollieFit Posts: 1,683 Member
    Oh sorry, just spotted the previous posts relating ACAS. :drinker:
  • bugaha1
    bugaha1 Posts: 602 Member
    I’m curious if you could do it again would you still tell the management you are looking to leave for another job you just don’t know when?

    Usually you give a two week notice when you have a start date.
  • LoosingMyLast15
    LoosingMyLast15 Posts: 1,457 Member
    Ok, slightly more background info.

    I'm in the UK, I have a contract, no union. My contract says nothing about my current situation, only that both parties have to give 4 weeks notice if one wishes to terminate the contract.

    That's the thing, I HAVE to give 4 weeks notice, I certainly couldn't walk out of there after 2 days. However because of the job it is, they don't think that 4 weeks is long enough, but if that was so, should they not have requested a longer notice period when I started?

    I understand I have probably shot myself in the foot, and I have learnt my lesson! I honestly thought I was doing the right thing.

    unfortunately you did shoot yourself in the foot by doing the right thing. at the end of the day the company needs to look out for the company just like you need to look out for you. sucks but it happens. disclaimer i'm not an attorney and i'm in the US. sadly by telling them you forced them to start the ball rolling finding a replacement. you know you have at least 4 weeks - i'm guessing longer since it will take some time to find a replacement for you. if it was me i'd get on the phone to the new company and start hounding them for a start date. they recruited you - they want you. ball's in your court with the new position. good luck.
  • PRMinx
    PRMinx Posts: 4,585 Member

    No, it's free training for them as it's carried out by employees. It is legally recognised though.

    Don't get me wrong I understand completely why they don't want to train me, I'm just not entirely sure whether they have the legal right to pull me out of this training, as I've had it booked for months.

    Legal right? Whether it was official or not, you told them you are leaving!

    Do you really expect them to want to invest anything (time, money, facilities) in you now? Businesses aren't charities. They don't owe you training after you tell them you are leaving. Maybe it's a UK thing, but this sounds like entitlement to me...
  • lauren3101
    lauren3101 Posts: 1,853 Member
    Right, spoke to ACAS. They couldn't tell me much, just said that my current employer COULD force me out, but whether or not it would be fair is another story, but if that happened I would need to look at going to a tribunal. They said the best thing to do is talk to my current employer about how I feel!
  • Madame_Goldbricker
    Madame_Goldbricker Posts: 1,625 Member
    Have a look on TUC work smart. They list independent unions for most sectors. Normally about £5-7mth dues.
  • _John_
    _John_ Posts: 8,646 Member
    If you worked for us and told us that, yeah, we'd show you the door and wish you good luck.
  • teamAmelia
    teamAmelia Posts: 1,247 Member
    I'm not sure what state you're in, so the laws may vary. I've worked in HR and it looks like they're getting ready to find your replacement and show you the door. You basically gave your resignation and they are allowed to do that in my state.

    The HR department is really messed up, though, because THEY are the dept responsible for job descriptions. They need to already have that in place to avoid messy situations like this. What if you just left? They would be screwed. And, I'd be pi$$ed at the supervisor for telling other people.

    I have two options for you. If you're concerned about leaving on a bad note and messing up a reference, you can tell them that you have every intention on staying on until you train your replacement (if you can actually do that).

    Since HR is being b!tchy and not helping you even though you were trying to help them by telling them, what I would choose to do is tell them that things didn't work out or something. Tell them that you don't want to lose a secure job over a potential job. That's believable and they will probably back off. You don't want to leave them w the impression that you have resigned (which gives them a good reason to look for your replacement). Don't feel bad about just leaving unexpectedly, either, bc you tried to do the right thing and look at how they treated you. Hopefully, once you have a start date, it will give your employer enough time to find a replacement. If they ask why you took the job anyway, tell them that they came back w a start date. Still believable. Good luck!

    ETA: Oh, crap, you're in a different country! I have no idea. I can't help you. Don't you people have unions and stuff to help you...Google employment laws in your country. At least you have a contract for the new job, though...or was that the old job?
  • lauren3101
    lauren3101 Posts: 1,853 Member
    I'm not sure what state you're in, so the laws may vary. I've worked in HR and it looks like they're getting ready to find your replacement and show you the door. You basically gave your resignation and they are allowed to do that in my state.

    The HR department is really messed up, though, because THEY are the dept responsible for job descriptions. They need to already have that in place to avoid messy situations like this. What if you just left? They would be screwed. And, I'd be pi$$ed at the supervisor for telling other people.

    I have two options for you. If you're concerned about leaving on a bad note and messing up a reference, you can tell them that you have every intention on staying on until you train your replacement (if you can actually do that).

    Since HR is being b!tchy and not helping you even though you were trying to help them by telling them, what I would choose to do is tell them that things didn't work out or something. Tell them that you don't want to lose a secure job over a potential job. That's believable and they will probably back off. You don't want to leave them w the impression that you have resigned (which gives them a good reason to look for your replacement). Don't feel bad about just leaving unexpectedly, either, bc you tried to do the right thing and look at how they treated you. Hopefully, once you have a start date, it will give your employer enough time to find a replacement. If they ask why you took the job anyway, tell them that they came back w a start date. Still believable. Good luck!

    ETA: Oh, crap, you're in a different country! I have no idea. I can't help you. Don't you people have unions and stuff to help you...Google employment laws in your country. At least you have a contract for the new job, though...or was that the old job?

    Thank you. I have decided that's what I'm going to do. Like you said, I tried to do what I thought was the nice thing and it hasn't worked out, so I think I'm going to give it a couple of days so it doesn't look suspicious, then tell them the other one has fallen through. Then when I get my start date I will work my 4 weeks notice which is all I legally have to do.

    I have a contract for the new job, which is handy!
  • Hellbent_Heidi
    Hellbent_Heidi Posts: 3,669 Member
    Thank you. I have decided that's what I'm going to do. Like you said, I tried to do what I thought was the nice thing and it hasn't worked out, so I think I'm going to give it a couple of days so it doesn't look suspicious, then tell them the other one has fallen through. Then when I get my start date I will work my 4 weeks notice which is all I legally have to do.

    I have a contract for the new job, which is handy!
    Something to consider...even if you tell them it fell through, they may still try to push you out. This is why people are usually advised never to accept a counter offer to stay at a job they've tried to quit. The employer now knows you wanted to leave (regardless of the fact that the other company pursued you) at one time, and they won't really trust that you aren't actively looking for another position again....so just don't expect them to be happy if you say you aren't planning to leave now :ohwell:
  • markpmc
    markpmc Posts: 240 Member
    You probably shot yourself in the foot when you opened your mouth about the new job.

    Business is business. I would not have mentioned it at all until I'd given notice.
  • pawnstarNate
    pawnstarNate Posts: 1,728 Member
    THIS is why I love having my own business. Although I am thinking about laying myself off so I can collect some unemployment....I might even have to pawn a few items to my business to make ends meet. I wonder if I can get a better deal on a pawn from myself? Probably not...I'm pretty set on making money on my pawns. :happy:
  • ffhsanfran
    ffhsanfran Posts: 63 Member
    From my experience: the bottom line is that without a starting date and a written offer, it is not a job offer. I have seen too many times contracts broken, words are broken as they come out the mouth. Even with the best intentions, contracts, and written offers in place, if the circumstances arise, the hiring manager leaves, dies, changes his/her mind, the company may try to retract the offer. Best to play safe, for individual employees. If you think you need to give 1 month notice to honor your current employment contract, you mention that as your start date to the new employer. "My start date would be 1 month from the day I receive the formal job offer (with dates, salary and benefits statements included). I am legally obliged to give 1 month notice to my current employee." And don't overvalue yourself ;). No one is indispensable in the corporate work. If you want to know how much you are worth to your company, check out your pay slip. It is in there.

Categories