Is bulking neccessary to gain muscle?

thekyleo

any thoughts would be appreciated

beekay70

This could be one of those hotly debated discussions. It comes down to body recomposition vs the traditional bulk/cut approach. Some will state that it is impossible to gain muscle without a calorie surplus, some will concede that "newbies" may see some gains on a deficit, and some will even posit that some will gain muscle on a deficit due to previous training and composition.

I will admit that I don't know. I tend to think that body recomposition is an emerging strategy that flies in the face of what we thought we knew about body building. Even the proponents of body recomposition state that this is a very slow method. For me, I'm going to attempt the strategy just because gaining weight on purpose is counter intuitive to someone that has struggled to take the weight off.

I look forward to the responses. As I said, it will likely be a spirited debate with even a few calling me and others idiots for not immediately ****ting all over the idea that you don't have to eat at a surplus to gain muscle.

beekay70

Then again, I could be wrong; maybe everybody is tired of debating it.

cwolfman13

It depends on what you want exactly. If you want body build type of muscle you will need to bulk and cut, bulk and cut, bulk and cut...and get a good assist from your genetic makeup.

In my personal experience you can achieve good composition results just eating to maintenance and lifting for hypertrophy...you can slowly (like turtle slow) gain some muscle while cutting fat). You're not going to end up with any kind of a body builder's body doing this...or if you did it would take you an eternity...but you can obtain a good, solid physique.

thekyleo

I would like to get stronger and increase muscle size. But not to the point of a body builder

jwdieter

I would like to get stronger and increase muscle size. But not to the point of a body builder

One day you're just like, pushing some weights up and eating an extra taco, and then suddenly you're Jay Cutler. Have to be verrrry careful.

beekay70

You will get stronger, even if you don't gain muscle; as long as you lift progressively. This is more a function of your nervous system. I've always seen the rep recommendations as 3-5 reps for strength, 6-8 for muscle growth (myofibrillar hypertrophy), and 10-12 reps for bulk (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy).

beekay70

And the load should reflect the reps, i.e. very heavy for 3-5, and lighter for more reps.

ElliottTN

I would like to get stronger and increase muscle size. But not to the point of a body builder

EDIT: Removing my comment bc I just realized who OP is and his amazing ability to never learn anything even though he asks the same question once a week.

thekyleo

I would like to get stronger and increase muscle size. But not to the point of a body builder

One day you're just like, pushing some weights up and eating an extra taco, and then suddenly you're Jay Cutler. Have to be verrrry careful.

Fithealthyforlife

I think if you're thin when starting, then it pretty much is required to bulk.

The exception to that is the person who has only lean gains with very minimal fat due to smart eating and great training. (But even they still have to eat over maintenance.) Franco Columbu is, I believe, an example of this. I don't believe he ever bulked intentionally. He only had lean gains and minimal fat due to an excellent diet with just the right amount of calories, excellent training, and probably being Sardinian (think Greek/italian) helped too. (Mediterranean people on the whoole seem to be naturally thin and can gain muscle easily.)

BinaryPulsar

I would like to get stronger and increase muscle size. But not to the point of a body builder

One day you're just like, pushing some weights up and eating an extra taco, and then suddenly you're Jay Cutler. Have to be verrrry careful.

I don't think he was saying he was worried about that, but that he didn't want/need to put that degree of effort into it because it's not what he is trying to achieve. I think people misunderstand this sometimes. They are asking what is an easy, simple way to put on a little muscle, my goals are not that big, they are just regular goals. They know that body building takes tremendous effort.

thekyleo

I would like to get stronger and increase muscle size. But not to the point of a body builder

EDIT: Removing my comment bc I just realized who OP is and his amazing ability to never learn anything even though he asks the same question once a week.

thekyleo

I would like to get stronger and increase muscle size. But not to the point of a body builder

EDIT: Removing my comment bc I just realized who OP is and his amazing ability to never learn anything even though he asks the same question once a week.

i'm seeing someone now for my anxiety with food. so this is serious

nomeejerome

I would like to get stronger and increase muscle size. But not to the point of a body builder

EDIT: Removing my comment bc I just realized who OP is and his amazing ability to never learn anything even though he asks the same question once a week.

i'm seeing someone now for my anxiety with food. so this is serious

Nobody has ever doubted that it is serious for you. You have received a huge amount of information in past threads and now is a good time to absorb that information and apply it for more than a week before starting another thread.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

Probably. You don't have to GFH, but yeah, you are probably going to have to eat a surplus to gain muscle. How are you going to gain anything if you don't eat?

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html

Bonny272

I like the Body for Life approach because it's something you can do long-term and have a life outside the gym. It explains the intensity levels that the others are talking about too. The big perk is you can probably check it out for free at the library.

thekyleo

Probably. You don't have to GFH, but yeah, you are probably going to have to eat a surplus to gain muscle. How are you going to gain anything if you don't eat?

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html

thanks, I will have t check out lyle's article

cdahl383

Most of the stuff I've read on this subject states you need to be in a small caloric surplus to effectively put on muscle at an optimal rate. This does not mean it is impossible to gain muscle at maintenance or a deficit (i.e. newbie gains). When they say a surplus, then mean 250-500 over maintenance, preferably on the lower end of that spectrum, to keep fat gains at a minimum. Thus aiming for .5 lb gain per week or 2 lbs per month, maybe 3 lbs in a month. This is just stuff I've read, not from personal experience. So take it with a grain of salt.

I've never attempted an actual bulk yet, though I do intend to do one this spring once I've achieved my goal weight and a leaner bodyfat percentage.

If you think about it, if you're body is going to "build" something new, it will most likely need additional resources. You can't built a new house or an addition onto your house without first getting some additional bricks and wood and some workers to do it all for you. So it makes sense in that regard that you need to eat more to build muscle. However, there is a point where additional eating is just pointless and will lead to fat gains because your body can only produce so much muscle at a time. So if you have 5 workers building the addition on your home, they'll only be able to work so fast before the additional bricks that you keep dumping in front of them just pile up and they can't be used at the moment. This analogy came from some article I read on a bodybuilding site and it seemed to make sense at least in theory.

So I would think it would be necessary to eat an additional amount over maintenance, but not necessary to pig out and get all fat in the process. Gaining 2 lbs a month is only 12 lbs in 6 months, and if most of that is muscle, I doubt you'd look very bad afterwards.

But like the first poster said, there seems to be a lot of debate on this topic so just digest what everyone has said and more importantly do some of your own research as well to see what you think is best and take it from there. Good luck!

FrnkLft

Bottom line, especially if you're a newbie to lifting, you can build some muscle eating maintenance. But your gain rate might be as low as 1/2 lb of lean mass per month or less, versus a bulk where you might gain 2lbs of lean mass per month.

Just have to choose which suits you best.

You can vary this though, maybe do a slower bulk, or alternate bulking and cutting. Bulk for 8 weeks, cut for 4, etc...

thekyleo

Bottom line, especially if you're a newbie to lifting, you can build some muscle eating maintenance. But your gain rate might be as low as 1/2 lb of lean mass per month or less, versus a bulk where you might gain 2lbs of lean mass per month.

Just have to choose which suits you best.

You can vary this though, maybe do a slower bulk, or alternate bulking and cutting. Bulk for 8 weeks, cut for 4, etc...

might have to try this as well

FrnkLft

Bottom line, especially if you're a newbie to lifting, you can build some muscle eating maintenance. But your gain rate might be as low as 1/2 lb of lean mass per month or less, versus a bulk where you might gain 2lbs of lean mass per month.

Just have to choose which suits you best.

You can vary this though, maybe do a slower bulk, or alternate bulking and cutting. Bulk for 8 weeks, cut for 4, etc...

might have to try this as well

Yeah man, don't over think it. As for a gain rate of 2 lbs of LM per month, that's exactly what I've gained eating around 500+ calories a day.

Those are the basics, now just choose your plan of attack.

sijomial

No it's not necessary - but a recomp is generally slower.
Your choice depends on your goals.

My own experience from March to October, majority of the time eating at maintenance:
Lost 4.2lbs of overall weight
Lost 7.7lbs of fat
Gained 3.5lbs of lean mass (mostly muscle hopefully!)

( See this post for more details if interested - http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1126552-results-of-a-recomp-after-7-months-stats-overload?page=1#posts-17473260 )

LuLuChick78

I would like to get stronger and increase muscle size. But not to the point of a body builder

One day you're just like, pushing some weights up and eating an extra taco, and then suddenly you're Jay Cutler. Have to be verrrry careful.

Ummmm...I don't think that you used that pic appropriately. I saw no escalation.

thekyleo

I would like to get stronger and increase muscle size. But not to the point of a body builder

One day you're just like, pushing some weights up and eating an extra taco, and then suddenly you're Jay Cutler. Have to be verrrry careful.

Ummmm...I don't think that you used that pic appropriately. I saw no escalation.

it was in reference to going from eating an extra taco to looking like jay cutler