HOOOOW to make apple cider vinegar drinkable?
Replies
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Please could you people who are touting the benefits of apple cider vinegar explain to me what it is about apple cider vinegar, compared to other vinegars such as red wine vinegar or malt vinegar, that has the health benefits? And also, if it's something specific to apples, then wouldn't apple juice have the same health benefit(s)?
Also, peer reviewed journal articles would be nice....
Not to be rude by any means, but if you need to read such articles, can't you look them up? I'm sure the benefits from just an apple is fine, I love apples and eat them regularly as well. I just thought the information from the website of the maker of this ACV would be helpful.
I believe it is personal preference. If you find a way you like it, drink it or use it. If not, don't. I happen to like it. I cannot say for sure, but I have been told that other vinegars are offer great health benefits as well.
You people are the ones touting this stuff as having health benefits, and I don't believe you. People are extremely gullible and there's so much quackery being touted that I simply don't have the time to look up every single one individually. I will believe in the health benefits when any of you people touting them prove them with actual, bona fide scientific studies that show that whatever it is really does have the effects that are claimed, and preferably with information such as what the active ingredient is in it. Without that, then I will continue to dismiss them as quackery.
I also urge everyone to do the same, about this, and every other thing on the market out there, because the are people making a crap ton of money selling quack cures that do absolutely nothing except line their pockets. My questions are rhetorical, I don't really want to know the answers, I want the people to question the claims of the people selling these things. I use various different vinegars in cooking purely because I like the taste. I am not really interested in the health benefits of this, more in getting people to ask more questions before believing every single quack-peddler out there. Because they're getting rich selling stuff that doesn't work.1 -
Just shoot it and follow maybe with 5 cal cranberry juice drink. Nothing makes it takes good. diluting it with water just takes longer..0
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If it were really as beneficial as some reports say - don't you think everyone would drink it? Stop drinking it, substitute it for other vinegar in your cooking and let it go at that. I'm not sure it's even edible...period.
If weight loss were really as beneficial as reports say - don't you think everyone would be losing weight?
In other words, your argument is a fallacy.
It's entirely edible. I second the recommendation for Bragg's raw with the mother. It has more of an apple taste to it than the pasteurized/conventional stuff.
Acetic acid, the acid in ACV, actually has potent antiglycemic and antimicrobial effects, both of which have been known and studied for some time now. Acetic acid is even prescribed for outer ear infections. Works great for heartburn, too, depending on the underlying cause (I know, counterinuitive, but it really does, because not all heartburn is caused by too much stomach acid). Also works great as a fabric softener, hair conditioner, all-purpose household cleaner, and for removing various skin blemishes like moles and skin tags.
Oh, and to answer your question -- more people don't drink it, because societal norms have shifted toward shunning natural remedies in favor of pharmaceuticals, even when the pharmaceuticals are using the very natural remedies that the layman shuns (ie - the acetic acid ear drops for ear infections). Just like how more people don't eat organ meat anymore, even though doing so can supply you with more Vitamin A, Iron, and other nutrients than most other "nutrient powerhouse" foods can even dream of supplying.
http://authoritynutrition.com/6-proven-health-benefits-of-apple-cider-vinegar/ (has around 30 links to PubMed studies)
I found #3 particularly interesting. But perhaps people will believe you because it has links to med studies.
3. Apple Cider Vinegar May Lower Blood Sugar Levels, Which is Very Useful For Diabetics
Type 2 diabetes is characterized by elevated blood sugars, either in the context of insulin resistance or an inability to produce insulin.
However, elevated blood sugar can also be a problem in people who don’t have diabetes… it is believed to be a major cause of ageing and various chronic diseases.
So, pretty much everyone should benefit from keeping their blood sugar levels stable.
The most effective (and healthiest) way to do that is to avoid refined carbs and sugar, but apple cider vinegar may also have a powerful effect.
Please can you link me to the actual scientific studies that these statements are based on. Otherwise it's just words on a screen. Anyone can type words on a screen.
"The health benefits of eating ants: 1. they contain formic acid which helps to protect you from tennis elbow. 2. they are a good source of protein. 3. The keratin in their exoskeleton gives you glossy hair and shiny fingernails. 4. Wild chimpanzees eat them all the time, and look how healthy and strong they are."
See? I just made that up off the top of my head. Mix of stuff I know about ants and stuff I just made up right now for a laugh. How do we know the difference? Well, unless I can show you peer reviewed journal articles to back up each point (and I can, for some, such as chimpanzees eating ants and the fact that ants contain formic acid, protein and ketatin) and the claim that there's a health benefit in humans eating ants, then you can dismiss what I'm saying as whacko-jacko. And yes, I can back up about 60% of what's written up there with scientific sources, so beware of quacks who do exactly the same thing, i.e. mix of fact and stuff they just made up to sell you something, and then back up the facts that you can back up with semi relevant scientific sources so it *looks like* you did all your research, but actually you just made up about 40% of it.
The quote that the other person copied here was in the link posted in the block quote, but here are the studies that the original article cites:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7796781
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/1/281.long
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/11/2814.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20068289
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9630389
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16034360
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/11/2814.full.pdf
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bbb1961/52/5/52_5_1311/_pdf
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1750-3841.12434/full0 -
Please could you people who are touting the benefits of apple cider vinegar explain to me what it is about apple cider vinegar, compared to other vinegars such as red wine vinegar or malt vinegar, that has the health benefits? And also, if it's something specific to apples, then wouldn't apple juice have the same health benefit(s)?
Also, peer reviewed journal articles would be nice....
Not to be rude by any means, but if you need to read such articles, can't you look them up? I'm sure the benefits from just an apple is fine, I love apples and eat them regularly as well. I just thought the information from the website of the maker of this ACV would be helpful.
I believe it is personal preference. If you find a way you like it, drink it or use it. If not, don't. I happen to like it. I cannot say for sure, but I have been told that other vinegars are offer great health benefits as well.
And this is how we go from, "There is a ton of proven, scientific research on the benefits of apple cider vinegar." to "Look it up yourself, it's a personal choice."
If you're making a claim about something, you should be able to back it up. If you're proven wrong you should learn from that and examine your personal decision making process.
Because if you're following bad sources of information you'll end up with children who have whooping cough and bad teeth. That's a "personal choice" nobody wants.
:drinker:0 -
Don't drink it. Those health benefits are HIGHLY overrated.
If you insist on it, take it with a chaser of your favorite intensely flavorful beverage.
Actually that is incorrect. Drinking apple cider vinegar before a meal reduces the insulin spike that results from eating.
How is that even possible? Apple cider vinegar is just fermented apple juice. A lot of the sugar is removed, but that doesn't mean that there isn't still sugar present.
There have been countless studies on this and the results are lower blood sugar levels.
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/contact-us/2475-&action=1
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/06/02/apple-cider-vinegar-hype.aspx
http://simpledailychange.com/apple-cider-vinegar-for-insulin-sensitivity/
http://www.thealternativedaily.com/multiple-studies-you-can-control-blood-sugar-with-apple-cider-vinegar/
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-816-APPLE CIDER VINEGAR.aspx?activeIngredientId=816&activeIngredientName=APPLE CIDER VINEGAR
Mercola is a well renouned quack. Maybe he has shares in apple cider vinegar.
You need to be a bit more selective in your reading. Try peer reviewed scientific journal articles.
You mean like these?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1785201/ -- review, has a bunch of other studies as well
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7796781/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16034360/
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/11/2814.full
http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/22/1_MeetingAbstracts/315.2
From the first study (Did you actually read it by the way?);
"But whether vinegar is a useful adjunct therapy for individuals with diabetes or prediabetes has yet to be determined"
Did you not read my comment next to the first link? It's a review (read -- not study), published seven years ago. I linked to it, because it links to a number of other studies for the various reported benefits.0 -
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Why are you drinking vinegar?!0
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I'm skeptical of the health benefits, although oddly I find it helps with heartburn. Whatever works, works.
but am I the only one that *likes* the taste? I'll often add a pour to my water-- tap or club-- just to liven it up. mmmm
I do it once in a while to change up the taste of my water - 1 capful of Bragg's with the 'mother' in a 750 ml bottle of water. I really like sour and bitter things (sucked on lemons when I was a baby) but once in a while I'll give it a tiny squirt of Mio in the 750 ml bottle too for something different.
edit to add: I usually put lemon or lime juice in my water (no sweetener) so this is a bit of a change, although my dentist suggests that I use a straw to drink to help prevent deterioration of enamel.0 -
Of course it has "antimicrobial effects" it's a mild acid. That's why it's used as a househould cleaner. You planning on drinking your windex too? Silly argument - but people believe what they want to believe and most will only source links that back up what they want to believe.
Now "eye of newt" now there's a weight loss diamond!
cheers
Do you avoid fat, too? Fats are acids, too. In fact, they're half of the soap equation, and soap is a household (and body) cleaner. In fact, real soap like that is technically a salt! Should you avoid table salt, then, too?
Also, your comparison to Windex is essentially like comparing ethyl alcohol with methyl alcohol, and saying that, while both can be used as disinfectants, because one is toxic to the body, you shouldn't drink the other.
Your argument is not only silly, but downright absurd and fallacious. There are thousands of compounds that are both entirely edible and can be used for other purposes, including cleaning and medical purposes. The two sets of uses aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.0 -
Of course it has "antimicrobial effects" it's a mild acid. That's why it's used as a househould cleaner. You planning on drinking your windex too? Silly argument - but people believe what they want to believe and most will only source links that back up what they want to believe.
Now "eye of newt" now there's a weight loss diamond!
cheers
Do you avoid fat, too? Fats are acids, too. In fact, they're half of the soap equation, and soap is a household (and body) cleaner. In fact, real soap like that is technically a salt! Should you avoid table salt, then, too?
Also, your comparison to Windex is essentially like comparing ethyl alcohol with methyl alcohol, and saying that, while both can be used as disinfectants, because one is toxic to the body, you shouldn't drink the other.
Your argument is not only silly, but downright absurd and fallacious. There are thousands of compounds that are both entirely edible and can be used for other purposes, including cleaning and medical purposes. The two sets of uses aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
LOL... so totally this ^^^^^0 -
Please could you people who are touting the benefits of apple cider vinegar explain to me what it is about apple cider vinegar, compared to other vinegars such as red wine vinegar or malt vinegar, that has the health benefits? And also, if it's something specific to apples, then wouldn't apple juice have the same health benefit(s)?
Also, peer reviewed journal articles would be nice....
The active ingredient, acetic acid, is largely what provides most of the benefits, though raw AVC, like Bragg's also includes a number of probiotics, which have their own benefits. On the acetic acid front, though, it doesn't really much matter, as long as it has a sufficient concentration of acetic acid. In that aspect, white vinegar has the same benefits, though I'd argue that ACV tastes better, but that's just personal preference.
As for other vinegars, I'd suspect that the stock for making it may leave certain properties that could have different effects. Balsamic vinegar, for example, is made from grapes and is sweet. I suspect it therefore has more sugar in it. If that's the case, then the sugar may defeat the antiglycemic effects of the acetic acid (just a guess there, though).
Wikipedia has a good run down of the different types of vinegars and what they're made from -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar#Varieties
I know all about the various different vinegars for cooking purposes. I'm a connoisseur of vinegars (kidding - I'm not even that good at cooking... I just like the taste of vinegar and use various different ones). Which is why it doesn't make much sense that apple cider vinegar would have health benefits that the others don't
So if acetic/ethanoic acid is the active ingredient then any vinegar will do. So why not advise people to use malt vinegar, as it's much cheaper and easily obtained in any supermarket? And why tell people that they have to drink it - a strong acid - when they can consume it as part of a delicious salad dressing or something? (if 2 tablespoons are the required amount, you can add that to a tomato based sauce, or even add it to tuna mayonnaise, it'll give it a lot of zing and be a lot more pleasant to consume than drinking it. Also, vindaloo is a delicious curry dish that is made with vinegar... why not have a vindaloo? If someone is diabetic and wants to reduce carbs, serve it with only a small portion of rice, and you can make it not so spicy (eating more sauce and less rice will make the spiciness seem a lot stronger so I'd recommend that).)
So again, this idea that you have to buy apple cider vinegar - which is a more delicate vinegar for finer cooking and way more expensive than malt vinegar, which is your basic all purpose vinegar for putting on your fish n chips (yes I'm British so I mean French fries) and is much cheaper and on sale pretty much everywere..... and then you have companies selling you special apple cider vinegar as a health food product, so likely to be that much more expensive than the apple cider vinegar you get in supermarkets for people to use in cooking......... and you're saying that the active ingredient is acetic/ethanoic acid...... well that just smacks of quackery.... if there's truth in it, then use malt vinegar.
Also, what you wrote seems to be your opinion, or the sales pitch of companies selling apple cider vinegar. Again, without peer reviewed journal articles, how do I separate facts from your opinions or the sales pitch of people selling the stuff?1 -
Salad dressing.
But if you hate it, don't make yourself eat it!0 -
They made Jesus drink vinegar.0
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If it were really as beneficial as some reports say - don't you think everyone would drink it? Stop drinking it, substitute it for other vinegar in your cooking and let it go at that. I'm not sure it's even edible...period.
If weight loss were really as beneficial as reports say - don't you think everyone would be losing weight?
In other words, your argument is a fallacy.
It's entirely edible. I second the recommendation for Bragg's raw with the mother. It has more of an apple taste to it than the pasteurized/conventional stuff.
Acetic acid, the acid in ACV, actually has potent antiglycemic and antimicrobial effects, both of which have been known and studied for some time now. Acetic acid is even prescribed for outer ear infections. Works great for heartburn, too, depending on the underlying cause (I know, counterinuitive, but it really does, because not all heartburn is caused by too much stomach acid). Also works great as a fabric softener, hair conditioner, all-purpose household cleaner, and for removing various skin blemishes like moles and skin tags.
Oh, and to answer your question -- more people don't drink it, because societal norms have shifted toward shunning natural remedies in favor of pharmaceuticals, even when the pharmaceuticals are using the very natural remedies that the layman shuns (ie - the acetic acid ear drops for ear infections). Just like how more people don't eat organ meat anymore, even though doing so can supply you with more Vitamin A, Iron, and other nutrients than most other "nutrient powerhouse" foods can even dream of supplying.
http://authoritynutrition.com/6-proven-health-benefits-of-apple-cider-vinegar/ (has around 30 links to PubMed studies)
I found #3 particularly interesting. But perhaps people will believe you because it has links to med studies.
3. Apple Cider Vinegar May Lower Blood Sugar Levels, Which is Very Useful For Diabetics
Type 2 diabetes is characterized by elevated blood sugars, either in the context of insulin resistance or an inability to produce insulin.
However, elevated blood sugar can also be a problem in people who don’t have diabetes… it is believed to be a major cause of ageing and various chronic diseases.
So, pretty much everyone should benefit from keeping their blood sugar levels stable.
The most effective (and healthiest) way to do that is to avoid refined carbs and sugar, but apple cider vinegar may also have a powerful effect.
Please can you link me to the actual scientific studies that these statements are based on. Otherwise it's just words on a screen. Anyone can type words on a screen.
"The health benefits of eating ants: 1. they contain formic acid which helps to protect you from tennis elbow. 2. they are a good source of protein. 3. The keratin in their exoskeleton gives you glossy hair and shiny fingernails. 4. Wild chimpanzees eat them all the time, and look how healthy and strong they are."
See? I just made that up off the top of my head. Mix of stuff I know about ants and stuff I just made up right now for a laugh. How do we know the difference? Well, unless I can show you peer reviewed journal articles to back up each point (and I can, for some, such as chimpanzees eating ants and the fact that ants contain formic acid, protein and ketatin) and the claim that there's a health benefit in humans eating ants, then you can dismiss what I'm saying as whacko-jacko. And yes, I can back up about 60% of what's written up there with scientific sources, so beware of quacks who do exactly the same thing, i.e. mix of fact and stuff they just made up to sell you something, and then back up the facts that you can back up with semi relevant scientific sources so it *looks like* you did all your research, but actually you just made up about 40% of it.
The quote that the other person copied here was in the link posted in the block quote, but here are the studies that the original article cites:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7796781
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/1/281.long
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/11/2814.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20068289
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9630389
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16034360
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/11/2814.full.pdf
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bbb1961/52/5/52_5_1311/_pdf
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1750-3841.12434/full
Okay so a quick look at a couple of those shows that there may be some benefit to consuming acetic/ethanoic acid. Although the number of subjects were extremely small, so the conclusions are not firm by any means (sorry I didn't look at all of them, because I have a slow internet connection and they take forever to load... if I missed one that was specifically looking at something else in apple cider vinegar besides acetic/ethanoic acid, then link me to just that one).
But let's give them the benefit of the doubt.......... those studies brings me back to the question - why are these health food companies always saying that this benefit is from apple cider vinegar... which is expensive (and they're also selling this stuff marketed at the health food market, no doubt even more expensive than the supermarket apple cider vinegar).... when malt vinegar, which is much much cheaper than other fancy vinegars, will give the exact same benefit, as all the studies are on the acetic/ethanoic acid itself........ but I guess it'll be a lot harder for health food companies to market malt vinegar in the same way, seeing as you can buy that very cheap in any supermarket or corner shop..........0 -
I also use it to treat my cat's chin acne. I would never drink it straight.
How is it working for that? I have a cat with face/chin acne also and nothing the vet does is helping her.0 -
I also use it to treat my cat's chin acne. I would never drink it straight.
How is it working for that? I have a cat with face/chin acne also and nothing the vet does is helping her.
I use a qtip to dab a little hydrogen peroxide on my cat's chin acne, it clears it up.0 -
I also use it to treat my cat's chin acne. I would never drink it straight.
How is it working for that? I have a cat with face/chin acne also and nothing the vet does is helping her.
I use a qtip to dab a little hydrogen peroxide on my cat's chin acne, it clears it up.
I might try both. It's a pretty large spot.0 -
I also use it to treat my cat's chin acne. I would never drink it straight.
How is it working for that? I have a cat with face/chin acne also and nothing the vet does is helping her.
It's working pretty good so far. I saturate half of a cotton ball with acv and then wet the entire thing with warm water (so one part acv/two parts water??) and scrub gently. It's definitely helping and I'm trying to be diligent about doing it daily. She hates the smell though and tries to lick it off. It's been a few days and her chin is not as crunchy.0 -
Okay... so I actually lost interest in this thread when I realized that it was a zombie, but I actually learned a lot popping back here.
I didn't know acetic acid had any impact on insulin. Good to know. But like neander said, any vinegar should have the same impact. I am left with just one question. Would cooking the vinegar detrimentally effect the benefit of insulin?
Because that is the only way I can justify in my mind drinking it raw, and to the best of my knowledge, apple cider vinegar is chosen for drinking because it is more palatable than other vinegars. Also, I don't get the claim that this stuff helps with heartburn and reflux. I admit that I drank the Kool-Aid about ACV, so to speak, for awhile before abandoning it BECAUSE I would get terrible heartburn after. As an acid, I would think it would only make the hydrochloric acid in your stomach worse. Also, I heard that the acid can burn the lining of the esophagus.
Why can't using vinegar in cooking provide the same insulinogenic effect? Especially, when drinking it raw could be potentially more harmful than helpful.0 -
I also use it to treat my cat's chin acne. I would never drink it straight.
How is it working for that? I have a cat with face/chin acne also and nothing the vet does is helping her.
It's working pretty good so far. I saturate half of a cotton ball with acv and then wet the entire thing with warm water (so one part acv/two parts water??) and scrub gently. It's definitely helping and I'm trying to be diligent about doing it daily. She hates the smell though and tries to lick it off. It's been a few days and her chin is not as crunchy.
thanks!0 -
I mix it with a little water, cinnamon and lemon juice. Take it like a shot and it's really not that bad!0
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Please could you people who are touting the benefits of apple cider vinegar explain to me what it is about apple cider vinegar, compared to other vinegars such as red wine vinegar or malt vinegar, that has the health benefits? And also, if it's something specific to apples, then wouldn't apple juice have the same health benefit(s)?
Also, peer reviewed journal articles would be nice....
The active ingredient, acetic acid, is largely what provides most of the benefits, though raw AVC, like Bragg's also includes a number of probiotics, which have their own benefits. On the acetic acid front, though, it doesn't really much matter, as long as it has a sufficient concentration of acetic acid. In that aspect, white vinegar has the same benefits, though I'd argue that ACV tastes better, but that's just personal preference.
As for other vinegars, I'd suspect that the stock for making it may leave certain properties that could have different effects. Balsamic vinegar, for example, is made from grapes and is sweet. I suspect it therefore has more sugar in it. If that's the case, then the sugar may defeat the antiglycemic effects of the acetic acid (just a guess there, though).
Wikipedia has a good run down of the different types of vinegars and what they're made from -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar#Varieties
I know all about the various different vinegars for cooking purposes. I'm a connoisseur of vinegars (kidding - I'm not even that good at cooking... I just like the taste of vinegar and use various different ones). Which is why it doesn't make much sense that apple cider vinegar would have health benefits that the others don't
So if acetic/ethanoic acid is the active ingredient then any vinegar will do. So why not advise people to use malt vinegar, as it's much cheaper and easily obtained in any supermarket? And why tell people that they have to drink it - a strong acid - when they can consume it as part of a delicious salad dressing or something? (if 2 tablespoons are the required amount, you can add that to a tomato based sauce, or even add it to tuna mayonnaise, it'll give it a lot of zing and be a lot more pleasant to consume than drinking it. Also, vindaloo is a delicious curry dish that is made with vinegar... why not have a vindaloo? If someone is diabetic and wants to reduce carbs, serve it with only a small portion of rice, and you can make it not so spicy (eating more sauce and less rice will make the spiciness seem a lot stronger so I'd recommend that).)
So again, this idea that you have to buy apple cider vinegar - which is a more delicate vinegar for finer cooking and way more expensive than malt vinegar, which is your basic all purpose vinegar for putting on your fish n chips (yes I'm British so I mean French fries) and is much cheaper and on sale pretty much everywere..... and then you have companies selling you special apple cider vinegar as a health food product, so likely to be that much more expensive than the apple cider vinegar you get in supermarkets for people to use in cooking......... and you're saying that the active ingredient is acetic/ethanoic acid...... well that just smacks of quackery.... if there's truth in it, then use malt vinegar.
I'd venture to guess it has to do with prices and where a lot of the information originated from. Here in the US, ACV is cheaper than malt. I can buy both White/Distilled Vinegar and ACV by the gallon for pretty much the same price -- usually about $7-$8 for the gallon for the "conventional" pasteurized stuff (Bragg's is more expensive, most likely to do with riding the "organic" wave). Other vinegars, though, particularly malt and balsamic, are $7-$8 per pint (and for what it's worth -- here in the US, at least the midwest, putting on fries is largely the only purpose malt vinegar has, most other basic cooking recipes use white vinegar).
Additionally, it's said that Hippocrates used ACV, which may also contribute to the recommendations of it over other vinegars. Sort of a "we know this works, so we'll recommend it until we find out the details of why and find other things that share its properties" kind of thing.
I'd say the problem with putting it in a dish vs drinking it straight or in a carrier liquid is that you don't usually consume all of the dish in which you're using it, unless you're making a single serving (and even if you are, if it maintains it's appetite suppressing effects, then you're not likely to eat the whole dish), which means you'd consume considerably less than the tablespoon or two recommended "dose."
That said, to my knowledge, it does work when used as a salad dressing. If you're consuming it for the appetite suppressing effects, though, you'd probably have to make sure to eat the salad first, but it does indicate that, assuming you can ensure you get a sufficient amount, the mode of consumption doesn't matter as much as some may believe.
The studies that have been done do the "mix with carrier liquid and consume before meal" method. So, I'd say that if you're going to take something that's rather controversial or somewhat unknown, you'd follow the knowns that are there. In this case, the method the studies use.
It seems to me, too, that another part is simply societal norms. Why is yogurt held as the probiotic food? It's not even that great of a probiotic, with several others running circles around it. Because societal norms have made it that way. That's slowly changing now, with the rise in popularity of kefir, kombucha, and artisan fermented foods and drinks, but that's a slow process. I think the same can be said of ACV vs other vinegars for the health benefits, at least in part.Also, what you wrote seems to be your opinion, or the sales pitch of companies selling apple cider vinegar. Again, without peer reviewed journal articles, how do I separate facts from your opinions or the sales pitch of people selling the stuff?
I'm not really sure where I made any kind of sales pitch, and I thought I made it pretty clear what parts where opinion and what parts were fact, particularly with the health claims. If you feel otherwise, please feel free to point them out.
I mentioned Bragg's, specifically, because it's the only brand I know of that sells unpasteurized ACV with the mother, and it's the one most people seem to be aware of. It doesn't really matter, though, whether it's actually theirs. If it's unpasteurized, then it has similar properties to any other fermented food -- probiotics from the bacteria that did the fermenting (pasteurization, by nature, kills off the bacteria, of course). If you wanted, you could make it yourself and get the same benefits as buying it from the store.
I linked several studies and aggregating articles that, at the very least, demonstrate the viability of acetic acid for various health-related purposes.
This one, for example, was with 4 randomized, cross-over trials, and showed that apple cider vinegar reduced post-meal glucose by 20% compared to placebo -- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20068289
The big thing I don't like is that most of the studies I've linked throughout this thread are admittedly small. However, there are multiple studies that all show the same results, indicating that it holds up to repeatability. Study size is, unfortunately, subject to funding, and few people who have the money to fund such studies aren't inclined to actually do so unless it can result in them making money, but then, if the companies that make vinegar were to fund such a study, then it would be accused of bias and conflict of interest, so it's a bit of a catch-22 and we're stuck with what people can and are willing to fund.0 -
This is exactly how I started taking vinegar as a supplement. I had eaten barbecue ribs and later suffered bad heartburn. I took two tablespoons of vinegar and followed this immediately with a water chaser. Within 20 minutes the heartburn was totally gone. I have used this same cure a few times in the past years but almost never have heartburn anymore.Don't drink it. Those health benefits are HIGHLY overrated.
If you insist on it, take it with a chaser of your favorite intensely flavorful beverage.
Except...it pretty much cured my husband's acid reflux.
He had horrible acid reflux and started taking acv whenever it flared up. Not only did it help almost instantly, after a few months the problem went away and now only flares up on occasion (ie, pizza night. lol.)
AND this was several years ago.
You can dilute acv with water and add stevia & ginger to make a very yummy refreshing drink.0 -
They made Jesus drink vinegar.
And he said F this I am making wine....SMH.....just eat vinegar on salads, or cook with it.0 -
This is exactly how I started taking vinegar as a supplement. I had eaten barbecue ribs and later suffered bad heartburn. I took two tablespoons of vinegar and followed this immediately with a water chaser. Within 20 minutes the heartburn was totally gone. I have used this same cure a few times in the past years but almost never have heartburn anymore.Don't drink it. Those health benefits are HIGHLY overrated.
If you insist on it, take it with a chaser of your favorite intensely flavorful beverage.
Except...it pretty much cured my husband's acid reflux.
He had horrible acid reflux and started taking acv whenever it flared up. Not only did it help almost instantly, after a few months the problem went away and now only flares up on occasion (ie, pizza night. lol.)
AND this was several years ago.
You can dilute acv with water and add stevia & ginger to make a very yummy refreshing drink.
so the vinegar on the ribs didn't help, but the extra vinegar chaser is what did it?1 -
One tablespoon of Bragg's ACV (organic, raw, unfiltered with the mother) is a good source of potassium and probiotics with zero calories. It does have a smoother taste than pasteurized ACV. I know some here will argue against the benefits of potassium and probiotics but for those of us who know the benefits, Bragg's ACV is a good choice. You could easily make your own ACV using the mother from Bragg's as the starter. I don't find the price of Bragg's prohibitive but some may.0
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So if acetic/ethanoic acid is the active ingredient then any vinegar will do. So why not advise people to use malt vinegar, as it's much cheaper and easily obtained in any supermarket?
Because braggs brand is well embraced by hippies and new ageys. It's not the actual type of vinegar that is being touted, it's the fact that it comes from a hippy dippy loved company, Braggs. (because mother)
It's no different from even simple white vinegar which would be much more price appropriate. They're also ignoring artisinal vinegars that may have benefit from other added ingredients. I have a quite fine grapefruit vinegar in my pantry that has grapefruit and mint slurry in it. It's delicious.
At the end of the day, the focus on ACV is simply due to marketing.0 -
Of course it has "antimicrobial effects" it's a mild acid. That's why it's used as a househould cleaner. You planning on drinking your windex too? Silly argument - but people believe what they want to believe and most will only source links that back up what they want to believe.
Now "eye of newt" now there's a weight loss diamond!
cheers
Do you avoid fat, too? Fats are acids, too. In fact, they're half of the soap equation, and soap is a household (and body) cleaner. In fact, real soap like that is technically a salt! Should you avoid table salt, then, too?
Also, your comparison to Windex is essentially like comparing ethyl alcohol with methyl alcohol, and saying that, while both can be used as disinfectants, because one is toxic to the body, you shouldn't drink the other.
Your argument is not only silly, but downright absurd and fallacious. There are thousands of compounds that are both entirely edible and can be used for other purposes, including cleaning and medical purposes. The two sets of uses aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
I agree - the argument is silly. But - my argument is not fallacious it's satirical - I'm sorry you missed the difference. And I never said I avoid Apple cider vinegar it makes a nice salad dressing - I just think it's silly to pick one form of acetic acid and ascribe health benefits to it.
But as I said earlier - people will believe what they wish to believe - in spite of empirical evidence - because people wish to believe in a miracles, and b. that they can do something other than watch their food intake and exercise in order to lose weight.
The beauty of open forums is discussion - which is what this is. So discuss on..............0 -
One tablespoon of Bragg's ACV (organic, raw, unfiltered with the mother) is a good source of potassium and probiotics with zero calories. It does have a smoother taste than pasteurized ACV. I know some here will argue against the benefits of potassium and probiotics but for those of us who know the benefits, Bragg's ACV is a good choice. You could easily make your own ACV using the mother from Bragg's as the starter. I don't find the price of Bragg's prohibitive but some may.
A tbsp of vinegar only has 15 mg of potassium. Considering that RDA is 3000 mg, how can you consider that as a good source of potassium?0 -
Okay... so I actually lost interest in this thread when I realized that it was a zombie, but I actually learned a lot popping back here.
I didn't know acetic acid had any impact on insulin. Good to know. But like neander said, any vinegar should have the same impact. I am left with just one question. Would cooking the vinegar detrimentally effect the benefit of insulin?
Because that is the only way I can justify in my mind drinking it raw, and to the best of my knowledge, apple cider vinegar is chosen for drinking because it is more palatable than other vinegars. Also, I don't get the claim that this stuff helps with heartburn and reflux. I admit that I drank the Kool-Aid about ACV, so to speak, for awhile before abandoning it BECAUSE I would get terrible heartburn after. As an acid, I would think it would only make the hydrochloric acid in your stomach worse. Also, I heard that the acid can burn the lining of the esophagus.
Why can't using vinegar in cooking provide the same insulinogenic effect? Especially, when drinking it raw could be potentially more harmful than helpful.
There haven't been any studies (not even self-experimentations that I've seen) regarding actually cooking with it. Like I said to neaderthin, the most obvious issue is not getting enough if you're cooking with it. I did think of another issue, though -- do the relevant compounds cook off in some kinds of cooking? If so, which ones retain most of the compounds in question? That I don't know and haven't seen anything on. Like I also mentioned, I think that's why it's usually recommended to drink it -- it follows the knowns -- what's been studied, what Hippocrates recommended in his time, and how to get a known amount of vinegar.
As for the heartburn -- there's some evidence/theories that if heartburn has anything to do with the amount of stomach acid, it's actually that there's too little stomach acid. I don't know how much it's been studied, though.
Here's some food for thought, though -- if you have heartburn to the point that you go to the doctor and get a prescription, the doctor prescribes an antacid, doesn't s/he? Yet, no tests are run to see if you actually produce too much stomach acid.
What causes heartburn? Pretty much everyone will agree that the cause of heartburn is stomach acid getting into the esophagus, where it causes a chemical burn, because the esophagus isn't equipped to handle the acid content of the stomach.
The question is, though, what causes the acid to get there in the first place? This is where there's some controversy, it seems. It probably doesn't help that the answer to that question varies from person to person, depending on the circumstances.
Here are a few theories on it:
http://www.tahomaclinicblog.com/what-really-causes-heartburn/
http://digestivehealthinstitute.org/2014/07/08/what-really-causes-acid-reflux-gerd/
http://drlarsen.com/is-heartburn-really-due-to-too-much-acid/
The common theme here? Regardless of the actual cause, odds are, too much acid isn't one of them. One of the theories actually mentions that one of the issues may be that the pH of your stomach may be too basic. Why does it burn, then, if it's basic? Because bases burn as much as acids. Google "lye burn" and you'll understand very quickly (WARNING: that Google search, especially on the images, is not for the faint of heart. Lye is nasty stuff and the results are gnarly). In these cases, at least, that means that adding an acidic compound, such as vinegar, would increase the acidity, bringing it back into a more proper balance.
I wish I could better explain this, because it really does work. I actually made a believer out of my husband. Like you, he found it counterintuitive and didn't believe me at first. He's a frequent heartburn sufferer and eats Tums like candy sometimes. One time, he had a particularly bad bout of heartburn that no amount of Tums would touch. After a sleepless night or two, with no end in sight, I finally managed to talk him into trying some vinegar for it. I mixed about a tablespoon or two into an 8oz glass of water (which he watered down further after the first couple of swigs). He's got a touchy gag reflex, so he didn't drink it all, but he managed to get it down, and after drinking about half of it, his heartburn was all but gone entirely.0
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