Body building illusion??

frankiedb

So yesterday when I was lifting in the gym an older fellow approched me and said.... Young man! Body building is just an illusion. You're manipulating your body to give the apperance of strength... Lowering bf and growing muscle... blah blah blah..

I was pissed but I didn't say anything to him because everyone is entitled to there opion. Plus he's an older gentlemen and didn't want to upset him.

After thinking about it for a while maybe there is a fraction of truth to that. There's many people out there like construction workers or hard working farmers. labors.. etc.. Who never lift weights but are strong as hell. I know some auto mechanics and plumbers that I swear could choke and elephant with there hands. Even my father was a constuction worker and never worked out a day in his life but man! When I was a kid he kicked my *kitten* and it hurt!

I'm thinking he was refering to that. I also googled that and seen many topics on the body building illusion... Well I don't know about that. I spend way to much time in the gym for it to be an illusion and find it insulting.

Not taking away from the working man but body building, fitness, cutting, lifting, diet is real and hard work.

What do you people think? Any truth to that?

EricaFaythe

Absolutely there's truth to it. Aesthetics and strength are two totally different things, although you can train for strength in the gym just like you can train for aesthetics. They just require a different program.

astronomicals

Laborers are doing all sorts of strength training. They just arent using barbells and iron plates. I've worked labor jobs and I can point out a common thread among construction workers. The weak fail and the strong prevail. Observing strength in laborers is no different than observing strength in athletes. The weak get weeded out. They can't handle the workload and they quit the job.


So, what am I saying?

I'm saying a lot of laborers are slightly higher up the ladder with genetics in regards to strength. They may not be as gifted as athletes, but, they arent skinny, frail, ectomorph, "hardgainers". Typically those types of people are never even hired.


If someone said that to me I'd shake my head and laugh in his face. Strength built in the gym is no illusion. Its real, quantifiable, and can be exerted on more than a bar.

ETA:

Even if you're training in higher rep ranges, and more concerned with mass than strength, you'll still have plenty of strength. Its not like its all synthol and not real muscle fibers. You don't have to be a powerlifter to not be a nancy. You can train for strength and aesthetics if thats what you wanna do.

toddis

I suppose he could be referring to practical application.

MyChocolateDiet

Who cares you look hawt!

astronomicals

I suppose he could be referring to practical application.

to which I;d say what I already said

Strength built in the gym is no illusion. Its real, quantifiable, and can be exerted on more than a bar.

MyChocolateDiet

I suppose he could be referring to practical application.

to which I;d say what I already said

Strength built in the gym is no illusion. Its real, quantifiable, and can be exerted on more than a bar.

again...hawt!

AllanMisner

I can say as I've gotten older, I've moved more toward functional strength over aesthetics. That said, if you really want to amp up your bodybuilding, cycle in some 8 week strength programs. You'll improve the density of your musculature and make your bodybuilding cycles mean that much more.

No reason you cannot have some of both.

JustYandy

Men that Labor do it for 8-12 hrs a day you lift how long at the gym in a day?:noway:

aetzkorn14

I see where he is coming from but at the same time Body building is more than just looking the part. You can re-shape and transform your body, and there is "real" strength in being able to clean and press 250lbs or deadlift 300lbs. You may not be able to use those movements as a construction worker but it is still strength.

aetzkorn14

Men that Labor do it for 8-12 hrs a day you lift how long at the gym in a day?:noway:

And there is a difference in strength and endurance....8hr is endurance. Also in a gym setting you are able to protect your body better where as as a laborer usually you cant and longer term it wears your body down.

astronomicals

You may not be able to use those movements as a construction worker but it is still strength.

Im positive that a strong deadlift and strong rows directly translate to being able to easily pick up packages of shingles and throw them over your shoulder.

mustgetmuscles1

Some truth to it. We all know people that are much stronger than they appear and you can train for strength if that is your goal. A lot of power lifters dont appear really big but can put up some serious weight.

Body builders train to look a certain way and are not necessarily worried about pound for pound strength. Then there are those working at both. Body builders can and do get very strong so that is really not an illusion.

I guess the only problem I have with what he said was that he said it like it was a bad thing.

Mr_Knight

After thinking about it for a while maybe there is a fraction of truth to that.

Oh, I'd say that there's more than a fraction. An awful lot of gym rats have "muscles" that look big but don't contribute to meaningful strength. When you have 165 pound guys squatting 600 pounds and bench pressing nearly 500 pounds, it really starts to sink in just how inefficient and pointlessly...expanded...a lot of gym bodies actually are.

But hey - some folks are in it for the aesthetics, and there isn't anything wrong with that, either. And it is definitely hard work to achieve those aesthetics, no doubt about that, either.

JustYandy

Men that Labor do it for 8-12 hrs a day you lift how long at the gym in a day?:noway:

And there is a difference in strength and endurance....8hr is endurance. Also in a gym setting you are able to protect your body better where as as a laborer usually you cant and longer term it wears your body down.

with endurance comes strength ~He said they seem stronger and they are and they do it as a living not a few hours in a week

WakkoW

After thinking about it for a while maybe there is a fraction of truth to that.

Oh, I'd say that there's more than a fraction. An awful lot of gym rats have "muscles" that look big but don't contribute to meaningful strength. When you have 165 pound guys squatting 600 pounds and bench pressing nearly 500 pounds, it really starts to sink in just how inefficient and pointlessly...expanded...a lot of gym bodies actually are.

But hey - some folks are in it for the aesthetics, and there isn't anything wrong with that, either. And it is definitely hard work to achieve those aesthetics, no doubt about that, either.

600 pound squats and 500 pound bench presses?

Mr_Knight

600 pound squats and 500 pound bench presses?

Sorry - I was looking at the "open" results - the drug tested results for 165 pound Men's class are 550 squat and 425 bench press.

Don't know if people consider the Olympics clean or not, but here's what the "skinny" guys are lifting at the Olympics...this the 150-pound class...that is some *serious* strength to bodyweight ratio....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUP_sZZ2HDA

jpace00

Yes and no. There is definitely some truth to the fact that a sculpted body and strength aren't the same thing. You can have a sculpted body without being incredibly strong and you can be incredibly strong without a sculpted body. That being said either one is fine. It just depends on what your goals are. I don't personally need to be able to lift a small car. I am more concerned with having a good amount of strength, body health and how I look (for others and myself).

Decide what you care about and go with that.

markink81

Regardless if your a bodybuilder or a construction worker there is limits to everyone's strength and that is genetic make-up.

Growing up as a farm boy I have known people that didn't workout a day in their lives that could pickup a full 55 gallon drum and throw it up into the back of their pickups and drive off like it was no big deal. With that said, you can take that same person and train them and they will build-up their strength but again the limits are genetic.

astronomicals

600 pound squats and 500 pound bench presses?

Sorry - I was looking at the "open" results - the drug tested results for 165 pound Men's class are 550 squat and 425 bench press.

Don't know if people consider the Olympics clean or not, but here's what the "skinny" guys are lifting at the Olympics...this the 150-pound class...that is some *serious* strength to bodyweight ratio....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUP_sZZ2HDA

You're comparing top lifting athletes to the average joe in the gym on a solid program... You cant compare my game on the court to Michael Jordan. You're getting into the realm of genetic potential. Neural adaption is a function of genetics just as much as "critical mass" is. Those light lifters with huge squats and pulls are impressive, but, they shouldn't be the standard for judgement of people at their weight.

MercenaryNoetic26

I agree with you OP. Many dismiss the hard work of bodybuilding. It is an insult to approach you while you're doing something you're passionate about and crapping on it. I'm a powerlifting bodybuilder and I push, pull, lift my own weight and always evolving, growing and getting stronger. Strong is nice and looking it, even better.

It IS hard work.

HelloDan

Who would you (or perhaps the general public, who haven't read this thread) pick if asked who is stronger, the guy in the top picture, or the guy on the left in the bottom picture?

An illusion maybe?

I doubt he was saying bodybuilding isn't hard work, I would guess it's more an attack on aesthetics, or what he considers vanity. I'm not sure the old man would agree, but I don't doubt that both guys in the photo work damn hard, even if one if for looks and one is for strength.

ironanimal

Bodybuilders, generally speaking, are strong by normal population standards. They don't stack up to powerlifters and Oly lifters for the most part however, because the objective isn't to get stronger - it's to get bigger or more aesthetic, and while larger muscle has some carry-over into strength, you don't engage you CNS in the same way performing a bodybuilding split as you would doing a session of cleans, hang snatches, power jerks and whatnot.

And then there's Ronnie; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ6fQBt67Bk

sheepysaccount

Workouts are not always done at the gym. To say a construction worker doesn't work out or lift is plain wrong. They lift an awful lot of heavy stuff and carry it around.
The difference is that you do the same thing (perhaps even less) than they do in a different place. And that's fine. You do what you feel like doing.

Also, being an old fart does not exempt him from being a ****. Voicing your opinion is fine, and if it upsets him, he's the one with the problem.

eilbeck

Take the bodybuilder Kai Greene.
He is a beast, but if you watch his vids on youtube he often won't lift overly heavy weights.
Watch his videos "training with Kai Greene" and he preaches the "mind muscle connection."

This is where you concentrate on the contraction of the muscle you are working as opposed to concentrating on moving the weight.

Many people use this to prevent injury etc. Worth looking into.

jimmmer

Well, there's the saying "all show and no go...."

You train for different things and you'll get different results. If aesthetics is your goal, then it's unlikely you'll get as strong as you could be. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily.

There's a lot emphasis on various forums about getting as strong as possible in the big 3, but there comes a point of diminishing returns if your goal is not to compete at a powerlifting meet.

I like Dan John's list of strength standards:

http://danjohn.net/2013/04/strength-standards-sleepless-in-seattle/

He has a list that is divided into "expected" for athletes (and I guess fit individuals) and "game changing". Now going beyond "game changing" strength in his experience doesn't seem to help athletes outside of strength sports (PL/Oly/SM). Something like this would probably be true of most fit individuals, too. You can be both aesthetically pleasing AND meet these strength standards without too much trouble and they'll contribute to your daily life (work, sports, etc) and keep your body from deteriorating too rapidly as you age. Seems enough in the long run. Unless you actually do want to compete in PL and the like and then you'll need more....

Huffdogg

The strongest guys I have ever met are not lifters. They're just unbelievably strong genetically. IF they did lift, they'd likely be amazing, but they just grew up on farms and are now members of Ironworkers local 395 with me and their lives have always included picking up heavy **** and you would never guess it to look at them.

kitinboots

The biggest muscles may not always be the strongest and the strongest may not always be the biggest. But what's your goal? I run distances but I'm not the fastest sprinter. If I cared about my sprinting time I'd train for it.

amy1612

Who would you (or perhaps the general public, who haven't read this thread) pick if asked who is stronger, the guy in the top picture, or the guy on the left in the bottom picture?

An illusion maybe?

I doubt he was saying bodybuilding isn't hard work, I would guess it's more an attack on aesthetics, or what he considers vanity. I'm not sure the old man would agree, but I don't doubt that both guys in the photo work damn hard, even if one if for looks and one is for strength.

I love this example. On a first glance you'd miss them, but the traps on the guy in the bottom picture prove your point very nicely

LolBroScience

Who would you (or perhaps the general public, who haven't read this thread) pick if asked who is stronger, the guy in the top picture, or the guy on the left in the bottom picture?

An illusion maybe?

I doubt he was saying bodybuilding isn't hard work, I would guess it's more an attack on aesthetics, or what he considers vanity. I'm not sure the old man would agree, but I don't doubt that both guys in the photo work damn hard, even if one if for looks and one is for strength.

For the unaware Martin (first 2 pics) is actually quite strong himself if I'm not mistaken... Theres a video of him pulling 600 DL for reps

HelloDan

For the unaware Martin (first 2 pics) is actually quite strong himself if I'm not mistaken... Theres a video of him pulling 600 DL for reps

Yes, it is Martin, and he is definitely strong.

Also, this isn't aimed at you, but my point was the majority of people will just assume the guy who looks like he has muscles is stronger, discounting the guy who looks like a random fat man (Hossein Rezazadeh) who is actually a complete beast. I consider this aspect the 'illusion'.