Is this just normal for colder weather?

heybales

More links here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/science/11qna.html?_r=0

Q. Will you burn more calories sitting at your desk if the thermostat is turned down?

A. Yes, caloric expenditure will increase if one stays lightly dressed, but not much, said Wayne Askew, director of the division of nutrition at the University of Utah. A more effective way would be to walk up and down a few flights of stairs, he said.

The basal metabolic rate increases slightly in colder climates, and Dr. Askew said there might be a very small increase in calories burned from the warming of cold air by the lungs and from the rewarming of skin that has been exposed to the cold.

A more significant increase can be expected if it is cold enough to cause shivering, which warms the body through quick involuntary contractions and relaxations of muscles.

This is not an ideal weight-loss technique, as a person insulated with plenty of body fat is usually less likely to shiver. “And it is very difficult to perform work requiring fine motor coordination, such as writing or using a computer, when shivering,” Dr. Askew said.

When the core body temperature gets dangerously low and the shivering response is maximally stimulated, Dr. Askew said, energy expenditure can be as high as that from work requiring 40 percent to 50 percent of the person’s maximum aerobic capacity. But if the core temperature drops low enough, the shivering response ceases and hypothermia rapidly sets in.

And for those wondering, 40-50% of VO2max is usually about 63-69% of HRmax.
Perhaps walking up steep incline fast.

But you got to be shivering uncontrollably. Not many would find that useful.

SarahBeth0625

Actually, don't do that, you'll be creating bigger than 500 calorie deficit while nursing. Bad idea.

He was not speaking correctly at all. Perhaps he doesn't know or remember how MFP works, perhaps he came from another site where the majority do use a TDEE deficit method, perhaps he does himself. But MFP does NOT.

He thinks you said you wear your HRM all day and eat that back it sounds like - not sure where he got that from.

In addition, MFP does NOT estimate your TDEE at all. TDEE of course by definition including exercise - Total Daily Energy Expenditure.
MFP estimates daily maintenance they call it, non-exercise TDEE in other words.

With the understanding you will log exercise and their figure will now go up, and indeed include exercise now.

Now it's TDEE, now you take off the 500 calories, now you have a deficit the same daily.

No, logging exercise calories you have a good estimate of is correct.

And don't do that intermittent fasting calculator, usually very confusing, though they have improved it lately.

Make small changes.
If your weight was creeping up, knock off those 200 calories only.
Don't do that AND nursing calories.

If you really want to try a totally different method, the TDEE deficit can work with a steady routine, use the spreadsheet on my profile page. Hundreds finding it successful.

That's why some many have a hard time with MFP, they don't follow the program, and the always estimate on what they think is the safe side (underestimated), and they have no idea how much they used to eat, when not exercising.

So they change everything at once, totally different eating when they don't binge, gung-ho on exercise, and so eating tons less and exercising tons more. No reason the body is in shock and stops responding positively after a while.

Anyway. Just cut the 200 cal daily for a month. Your BMR literally does change through the month, your base metabolism. So it'll take a month to see if you got the number right.

200 cals might be more on the money. I was thinking I was supposed to eat back all of my exercise cals always, and I never had a "problem" until now, so I guess right now I am just revamping my calorie goals to make small adjustments.

The nurslings are toddlers so they are older, so not nursing as much as babies do, but still 5-6 times in 24 hours (each).

Ian_Stuart

@SarahBeth0625: Also, I should point out that, when that site gives you workout day calories, it is assuming you are doing a fairly directed weight training routine. It is trying to get you the extra protein and calories to rebuild muscle. If your workout is primarily cardio, then just use your rest day calories everyday and add whatever MFP says you should add.

SarahBeth0625

@SarahBeth0625: Also, I should point out that, when that site gives you workout day calories, it is assuming you are doing a fairly directed weight training routine. It is trying to get you the extra protein and calories to rebuild muscle. If your workout is primarily cardio, then just use your rest day calories everyday and add whatever MFP says you should add.

Thanks! My longer workouts are more strength training than cardio; I do cardio on my "off" days. I do think I should think about protein shakes or some sort of other source where I can get more of that in.

heybales

@heybales: I was momentarily terrified that you might be correct and that I had been giving out bad information, or information based on a poor understanding, but I just used MFP to recalculate my calorie goal (instead of using the calculator I linked above) and it gave me very nearly the same number, which is my TDEE, NOT my BMR. If MFP is calculating BMR, then they don't need to ask the question about activity level at all. I believe you are incorrect about that part, but you are completely correct that making such a large change when nursing would not be a great plan.

Well, misread my response just a tad. I only said BMR once, in relation to TOM.

MFP uses your calculated Mifflin BMR (in their tools) and your selection of activity level, to come up with maintenance - non-exercise TDEE you could say.

You said you selected Sedentary in that other tool - well, that is the only level that matches up close.

So if your daily life has no exercise in it, than that is your TDEE.
If you do exercise, then sedentary is not your TDEE, by neither method.

Otherwise:
MFP
Sedentary - 1.25 x BMR
Lightly Active - 1.35
Active - 1.45
Very Active - 1.55

Almost every other 5 TDEE level table
Sedentary - 1.2 x BMR
Light Active - 1.375
Moderately Active - 1.55
Very Active - 1.725
Extremely Active - 1.9

True TDEE Deficit method includes your planned weekly exercise in your level estimate, and that is averaged back out daily, so you eat the same amount daily. Your amount of deficit daily is literally different, but the week ends up being whatever the average is.

MFP method includes NO exercise planned or accounted for just daily life levels. You get a deficit exercise or not. But if you do exercise, your daily level obviously increased, so to keep the same hopefully reasonable deficit, you eat the exercise calories back, hopefully allowing you to truly benefit from the exercise done to the max available, at least while eating at a deficit still.

SarahBeth0625

MFP method includes NO exercise planned or accounted for just daily life levels. You get a deficit exercise or not. But if you do exercise, your daily level obviously increased, so to keep the same hopefully reasonable deficit, you eat the exercise calories back, hopefully allowing you to truly benefit from the exercise done to the max available, at least while eating at a deficit still.

This makes sense to me. I'd rather eat back the exercise calories than not log my exercise or log it as 1 cal.

One thing I did is I took out the -400 I was getting for tandem nursing. That alone should make a difference. It was a guess, if anything.

Ian_Stuart

@heybales: Ok! Then I don't think we were actually saying different things. It doesn't sound like she needs to calculate anything above sedentary, but she was taking a sedentary TDEE and adding additional calories for what sounded like basic activities that are already included in that 1.25 multiplier, which I assumed was the reason she was gaining despite eating at what MFP claimed was a deficit. Actual exercise or other "abnormal" activity should definitely be logged and accounted for, especially if nursing.

My second response might address your other concern. The calculator that I linked includes "workout day" calories to offset a heavy strength training routine, because the actual calories burned during strength training is notoriously hard to calculate and changes as you build muscle. I would recommend ignoring that, eating at the calorie deficit for rest days (plus MFP activity calories) until you reach your calorie goal and then switching to eating at TDEE plus whatever extra calories MFP assigns for activities.

SarahBeth0625

@heybales: Ok! Then I don't think we were actually saying different things. It doesn't sound like she needs to calculate anything above sedentary, but she was taking a sedentary TDEE and adding additional calories for what sounded like basic activities that are already included in that 1.25 multiplier, which I assumed was the reason she was gaining despite eating at what MFP claimed was a deficit. Actual exercise or other "abnormal" activity should definitely be logged and accounted for, especially if nursing.

My second response might address your other concern. The calculator that I linked includes "workout day" calories to offset a heavy strength training routine, because the actual calories burned during strength training is notoriously hard to calculate and changes as you build muscle. I would recommend ignoring that, eating at the calorie deficit for rest days (plus MFP activity calories) until you reach your calorie goal and then switching to eating at TDEE plus whatever extra calories MFP assigns for activities.

So you are saying set the goals to the rest day calories, and then just eat back the exercise cals, and that should be good?

Jewlz280

Someone here will remember where it is and link to the weighing versus measuring video, but for just one example

40 gr of dry oatmeal is a serving. the box says that's ½ cup. but when i put ½ cup of dry oatmeal on the scale it weighs 60 gr. That's 50% more calories than I'd record if I were doing it by cup measures and not by weight.

If you find that vid, please post it as I just was so baffled by this that I had to go and weigh my oatmeal! LOL Then, I had my husband do it. We both did it several times and I never went more than 3g over the 40 for half a cup. So... I don't necessarily think the big issue with items like oatmeal is that a measuring cup is inaccurate, but more the person measuring. People have a VERY hard time leveling off the measuring spoons/cups accurately. I could see it being an issue with larger sized items (certain cereals, etc.), but for things like oatmeal and rice, you're talking a gram or two here or there. And honestly, that should NOT be that big of a deal! Maybe over the course of an entire day it might add a few extra cals, but I just don't think it's anything to become obsessive over. With that said :blushing: I do pretty much weigh everything. Mostly because for me, it's easier than dirtying up a dad-gum measuring cup! LOL So, I'd be very interested in seeing the vid. I wonder if I can find it....

SarahBeth0625

Thank you for all the help!

There are so many variables, but I don't think there's anything wrong with tweaking the calories once in awhile. When I stopped going home for lunch nursing sessions (the kiddos getting older and all), I adjusted my cals then, but that's probably been 3-4 months now.

Ian_Stuart

So you are saying set the goals to the rest day calories, and then just eat back the exercise cals, and that should be good?

Yes. Heybales? Sound about right to you?
Of course, the right way to calibrate is to measure over time and use a moving average of your weight to see if you need to shave calories or add some: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/FatUncleRob/view/using-a-moving-or-rolling-average-to-track-weight-257660

heybales

Someone here will remember where it is and link to the weighing versus measuring video, but for just one example

40 gr of dry oatmeal is a serving. the box says that's ½ cup. but when i put ½ cup of dry oatmeal on the scale it weighs 60 gr. That's 50% more calories than I'd record if I were doing it by cup measures and not by weight.

If you find that vid, please post it as I just was so baffled by this that I had to go and weigh my oatmeal! LOL Then, I had my husband do it. We both did it several times and I never went more than 3g over the 40 for half a cup. So... I don't necessarily think the big issue with items like oatmeal is that a measuring cup is inaccurate, but more the person measuring. People have a VERY hard time leveling off the measuring spoons/cups accurately. I could see it being an issue with larger sized items (certain cereals, etc.), but for things like oatmeal and rice, you're talking a gram or two here or there. And honestly, that should NOT be that big of a deal! Maybe over the course of an entire day it might add a few extra cals, but I just don't think it's anything to become obsessive over. With that said :blushing: I do pretty much weigh everything. Mostly because for me, it's easier than dirtying up a dad-gum measuring cup! LOL So, I'd be very interested in seeing the vid. I wonder if I can find it....

My protein powder was the opposite direction.

I used their included scoop, leveled off, not fluffy and not banged down tight either - 38 grams was short by 12 gr, for the amount of protein I was to be getting, that's decent amount left off.

You are right on rice, but anything that can have air, like many measure fruits and vegetables, and fruit can add up when off and not packed the same as estimate.

Also depends on the product. Almost always sold by weight, but volume looks better to consumer, so some way to inflate it and make it look better is tried.

SLLRunner

Here is the calculator that I use:
http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/
Most people qualify as sedentary unless you work construction or something.

I believe the bold part is incorrect information. I would say most people qualify as lightly active or active, and otherwise would be sedentary if they sit and stare at the TV and do nothing all day long.

heybales

So you are saying set the goals to the rest day calories, and then just eat back the exercise cals, and that should be good?

Yes. Heybales? Sound about right to you?
Of course, the right way to calibrate is to measure over time and use a moving average of your weight to see if you need to shave calories or add some: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/FatUncleRob/view/using-a-moving-or-rolling-average-to-track-weight-257660

Yep.

That is the nice way of using a TDEE calc that uses % off (10, 15, 20) rather than MFP block calories off (250, 500, ect).

You can start at same basic non-exercise level but with a more reasonable % off, but then do MFP style eating back exercise calories.

Just make sure you take the same % off the exercise calories. Because if it had been included in the TDEE with deficit, it would have gotten it remove there.

In other words:
exercise included TDEE - 10% = (non-exercise TDEE - 10%) + (exercise - 10%)

Sarah,
For 5 lbs, it would be safer at 10% too.

The other nicer thing, if daily life really isn't sedentary, like most mothers find Lightly Active is true, then you are starting at a better base.
Sedentary is really 45 hrs sitting weekly for job and commute, and lots of sitting on the weekend, outside the formal exercise.

You'll find many with FitBit's or BodyMedia's that found even before they got inspired to move more, their non-exercise days maintenance was higher than MFP sedentary level already. And that was with sedentary desk jobs.

You with 2 kids - lightly active.

Ian_Stuart

I believe the bold part is incorrect information. I would say most people qualify as lightly active or active, and otherwise would be sedentary if they sit and stare at the TV and do nothing all day long.

I thought exactly the same thing and initially select lightly active, and I began slowly creeping up in weight. Apparently sedentary is calibrated to account for working a desk job, driving, basic walking around, etc... Unless you are a nurse or teacher where you are on your feet for many hours, I wouldn't go much above sedentary. try it for a while and see if you are losing/gaining at the weight you are supposed to be and calibrate as necessary.

Here are the descriptions that I used to decide:

Activity Level: Choose from the following options.
Sedentary - desk job, mostly typing, minimal movement. 95% of us have this job (and dread it)
Lightly Active - walking around a good amount (about half the day), meetings, socializing
(retail jobs, barista)
Moderately Active - walking/socializing constantly in a fast paced environment (aka waiting tables, delivering mail, etc.)
Very Active - walking and heavy lifting; very labor intensive (construction workers, lumberjacks..this is probably not you)
Extremely Active - professional athlete, dancer, etc. (save this unless you are Lance Armstrong)

Edit: I wanted to add to this that I agree in retrospect that a stay at home mom probably qualifies as lightly active. I didn't give that enough thought.

SLLRunner

If I select sendentary, it gives me 1277 cals for a rest day and 1916 cals for a workout day.

I'm 5'7 1/2" if that matters.

1277 is too few calories for someone your height even on a rest day. You could spread the calories out more evenly so you get enough fuel. It's the end week average that counts. You could be overestimating burned calories as well, or simply be off on some intake calorie estimations. Believe me, it's easy to do.

I would not advise setting your activity level to sedentary unless you are sitting on the sofa all day starting at the TV all day long and doing very little.

SarahBeth0625

You with 2 kids - lightly active.

3 kids. And yeah, if I add up all my exercise, it is 1 hour of strength training 3 times a week, and 36 minutes of hard cardio 3 times a week. Desk job during the day. But I always do workout 6 days a week at the gym, so figured I wasn't in the sedentary category at all....

SarahBeth0625

If I select sendentary, it gives me 1277 cals for a rest day and 1916 cals for a workout day.

I'm 5'7 1/2" if that matters.

1277 is too few calories for someone your height even on a rest day. You could spread the calories out more evenly so you get enough fuel. It's the end week average that counts. You could be overestimating burned calories as well, or simply be off on some intake calorie estimations. Believe me, it's easy to do.

I would not advise setting your activity level to sedentary unless you are sitting on the sofa all day starting at the TV all day long and doing very little.

Agreed. And for the first time in 6 months, I watched *a* show last night. LOL! I really don't watch t.v.. But definitely, my work job is fairly sedentary, although I do some walking. I do get my workouts in 6 days a week, though, as mentioned.

When I first joined MFP, I did the 1200 calorie thing for about a month before I was wondering why I was always hungry... didn't take me long to customize my goals to a higher caloric intake.

SLLRunner

I believe the bold part is incorrect information. I would say most people qualify as lightly active or active, and otherwise would be sedentary if they sit and stare at the TV and do nothing all day long.

I thought exactly the same thing and initially select lightly active, and I began slowly creeping up in weight. Apparently sedentary is calibrated to account for working a desk job, driving, basic walking around, etc... Unless you are a nurse or teacher where you are on your feet for many hours, I wouldn't go much above sedentary. try it for a while and see if you are losing/gaining at the weight you are supposed to be and calibrate as necessary.

Here are the descriptions that I used to decide:

Activity Level: Choose from the following options.
Sedentary - desk job, mostly typing, minimal movement. 95% of us have this job (and dread it)
Lightly Active - walking around a good amount (about half the day), meetings, socializing
(retail jobs, barista)
Moderately Active - walking/socializing constantly in a fast paced environment (aka waiting tables, delivering mail, etc.)
Very Active - walking and heavy lifting; very labor intensive (construction workers, lumberjacks..this is probably not you)
Extremely Active - professional athlete, dancer, etc. (save this unless you are Lance Armstrong)

Edit: I wanted to add to this that I agree in retrospect that a stay at home mom probably qualifies as lightly active. I didn't give that enough thought.

That's interesting. I am a paralegal with a desk job and I have my activity level set to lightly active, and I have been losing weight just fine. I exercise each day and eat back my exercise calories (a good portion) and eat between 1,750 and 2,000 per day and I'm losing my .5 pounds per week (only five more to go!).

I guess it could be different for each person depending on a variety of factors.

123im4u2c

Hi, First of all your weight is never constant, it fluctuates through out the day! 2nd a word of advice is... don't be hooked at the hip to your scale. Bad habit to get into. I only weigh myself once every week or two, I can pretty much tell by how my clothes feel! I don't stress myself. You maybe eating the way you Normally do, and remember muscle DOES weigh more than fat! Use your BMI readings and Body fat readings as guide lines only! Don't be a slave to ant one thing! Actually the latest report is that working out in lower temps helps you body to burn calories you take in, it's like turning up a furnace to keep warm! If any of us are going to look for consistency, it should only be that you keep with your routine! You're doing fine, but remember it's easier to eat more in cold weather too, and it's not like the summer when we have all that great fresh fruit to gnosh on!:drinker: