A call to more heavily regulate the supplement industry
Replies
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Honestly, why do people *WANT* a nanny to tell them how to live their life? Are you admitting to being a dummy or just lazy or what?
Do you research every single product that you purchase? Do you really have time for that?
This is a free market. Without the FDA, countries like China could sell us rat poison and call it a supplement.
A free market? Dafuq? When did this happen? Did the Supreme Court suddenly get replaced by folks who take the constitution literally?0 -
Exactly! Killing people, making them sick, defrauding them, etc. are all ways to ruin your business. There's no profit in pissing off customers.
How naive can you get? That's an insane statement.
You would rather trust a government bureaucracy that has no vested interest in keeping people safe? How Naïve can you be?
Rigger
The government has interest in keeping people safe. It's corrupt individuals that cause people not to trust the government as a whole. A few bad apples ruins it for the whole bunch. Seriously, vet your politicians better if you think that government doesn't have an interest in your safety.
The same is true with business. For the most part, businesses don't want to kill their customers. A few corrupt individuals in the right positions of power within that business might exploit their customers, but the public has very little control over what businesses do. That is why we need the FDA and the government to watch out for us.
Unless you are die-hard paleo and grow your own food and consume nothing processed, you really have no way of knowing what is going on with your food. And while monitoring ALL of the producers in a free market society is a daunting challenge for any government, it is better to have some regulation than none at all.0 -
Exactly! Killing people, making them sick, defrauding them, etc. are all ways to ruin your business. There's no profit in pissing off customers.
How naive can you get? That's an insane statement.
You would rather trust a government bureaucracy that has no vested interest in keeping people safe? How Naïve can you be?
Rigger
Our government does have a vested interest in keeping us safe. That's its overriding purpose. It's why governments exist.0 -
So basically you're saying that you, and most other Americans need a babysitter?
Rigger
Americans do need someone standing in between supplement and drug companies, preventing said companies from marketing things that are not safe. Yes.
Does this actually happen, bad drugs still come to market, tainted food still comes to market, so be serious. Government decree can't protect you, you need to be responsible for yourself.
Rigger0 -
Honestly, why do people *WANT* a nanny to tell them how to live their life? Are you admitting to being a dummy or just lazy or what?
Do you research every single product that you purchase? Do you really have time for that?
This is a free market. Without the FDA, countries like China could sell us rat poison and call it a supplement.
A free market? Dafuq? When did this happen? Did the Supreme Court suddenly get replaced by folks who take the constitution literally?
You don't have a lot of knowledge about economics if you think that the US is not a free market society. Or that the supreme court has any power over the economy.0 -
So basically you're saying that you, and most other Americans need a babysitter?
Rigger
Americans do need someone standing in between supplement and drug companies, preventing said companies from marketing things that are not safe. Yes.
Does this actually happen, bad drugs still come to market, tainted food still comes to market, so be serious. Government decree can't protect you, you need to be responsible for yourself.
Rigger
So if government regulation can't stop everyone in the US from consuming contaminated goods, then they shouldn't bother at all.
Is that your premise?0 -
Honestly, why do people *WANT* a nanny to tell them how to live their life? Are you admitting to being a dummy or just lazy or what?
Do you research every single product that you purchase? Do you really have time for that?
This is a free market. Without the FDA, countries like China could sell us rat poison and call it a supplement.
How long would that last before people got wise to it? Honestly.
Rigger
It's impossible for a consumer to know exactly what is in a product and where it comes from. A company could be selling toothpaste sweetened with antifreeze for years before the public became aware of it. And once they did, the company could cease to exist, sure. But then the exact same people who owned and ran that company would channel those established plants and importers and factories into a new company without that pesky blemish. Or the company could claim to have switched suppliers, but really be buying the sweetener from the same factory in China that is contracting out for a different shell company.
The food and drug industries need regulation, period. It's the FDA behind those nutrition labels we all love here on MFP. How many products would still be filled with trans fats without the FDA requiring their inclusion on the label?
And to those people claiming the FDA just increases the costs of products. Yes, it does increase the cost of products by requiring that manufacturers run expensive trials and tests with them. It's not the FDA, or FDA fees that increase the price of products.
If you claim that getting rid of the FDA will make things cheaper, you must understand that it will make things cheaper because companies will spend a lot less time and money on testing products for safety. You can't have it both ways.0 -
Exactly! Killing people, making them sick, defrauding them, etc. are all ways to ruin your business. There's no profit in pissing off customers.
How naive can you get? That's an insane statement.
You would rather trust a government bureaucracy that has no vested interest in keeping people safe? How Naïve can you be?
Rigger
Our government does have a vested interest in keeping us safe. That's its overriding purpose. It's why governments exist.
Really? Where are they held accountable? What is their motivation? Because I have a hard time believing that the government just has that big a heart. Besides, the government does a lot more that it's not supposed to do than it does that it's mandated to do. Face it, government is far more bad than good, and it's been that way for hundreds of years. Government has an interest in power, and if you were standing in the way of that they would gladly mow you over with a tank, so keep us safe my backside.
Rigger0 -
Honestly, why do people *WANT* a nanny to tell them how to live their life? Are you admitting to being a dummy or just lazy or what?
Do you research every single product that you purchase? Do you really have time for that?
This is a free market. Without the FDA, countries like China could sell us rat poison and call it a supplement.
How long would that last before people got wise to it? Honestly.
Rigger
You would be surprised. 100,000's could die before someone says... "Hmm... we've all been taking vitamin C from China and we are dying. Maybe we should stop taking this."
And guess what... without the FDA, who exactly would investigate to learn that all those people were poisoned by the same supplement.0 -
So basically you're saying that you, and most other Americans need a babysitter?
Rigger
Americans do need someone standing in between supplement and drug companies, preventing said companies from marketing things that are not safe. Yes.
Does this actually happen, bad drugs still come to market, tainted food still comes to market, so be serious. Government decree can't protect you, you need to be responsible for yourself.
Rigger
Yes, bad things do slip through the cracks in the gate.
Your claim appears to be that fewer bad things will get through if you remove the gate entirely.0 -
Exactly! Killing people, making them sick, defrauding them, etc. are all ways to ruin your business. There's no profit in pissing off customers.
How naive can you get? That's an insane statement.
You would rather trust a government bureaucracy that has no vested interest in keeping people safe? How Naïve can you be?
Rigger
Our government does have a vested interest in keeping us safe. That's its overriding purpose. It's why governments exist.
Really? Where are they held accountable? What is their motivation? Because I have a hard time believing that the government just has that big a heart. Besides, the government does a lot more that it's not supposed to do than it does that it's mandated to do. Face it, government is far more bad than good, and it's been that way for hundreds of years. Government has an interest in power, and if you were standing in the way of that they would gladly mow you over with a tank, so keep us safe my backside.
Rigger
Politicians are held accountable at every single election. Pay attention to what they do and act accordingly.
The government might not be the great white knight of all people everywhere, but you can't really be suggesting that we live in a society without one. That's just ignorant.0 -
Honestly, why do people *WANT* a nanny to tell them how to live their life? Are you admitting to being a dummy or just lazy or what?
Do you research every single product that you purchase? Do you really have time for that?
This is a free market. Without the FDA, countries like China could sell us rat poison and call it a supplement.
How long would that last before people got wise to it? Honestly.
Rigger
It's impossible for a consumer to know exactly what is in a product and where it comes from. A company could be selling toothpaste sweetened with antifreeze for years before the public became aware of it. And once they did, the company could cease to exist, sure. But then the exact same people who owned and ran that company would channel those established plants and importers and factories into a new company without that pesky blemish. Or the company could claim to have switched suppliers, but really be buying the sweetener from the same factory in China that is contracting out for a different shell company.
The food and drug industries need regulation, period. It's the FDA behind those nutrition labels we all love here on MFP. How many products would still be filled with trans fats without the FDA requiring their inclusion on the label?
And to those people claiming the FDA just increases the costs of products. Yes, it does increase the cost of products by requiring that manufacturers run expensive trials and tests with them. It's not the FDA, or FDA fees that increase the price of products.
If you claim that getting rid of the FDA will make things cheaper, you must understand that it will make things cheaper because companies will spend a lot less time and money on testing products for safety. You can't have it both ways.
A fallacy at best. Business doesn't want to kill or harm it's customers, there's no profit in it. Profit is what motivates a company, so tell me, what motivates the FDA?
Rigger0 -
A fallacy at best. Business doesn't want to kill or harm it's customers, there's no profit in it. Profit is what motivates a company, so tell me, what motivates the FDA?
Companies are gud! Gubmint is bad! Rigger say so!0 -
I am not in favor of overregulation.Honestly, why do people *WANT* a nanny to tell them how to live their life? Are you admitting to being a dummy or just lazy or what?
I am, however, in favor of some entity ensuring the things we ingest are safe to ingest.
Exactly. People tend to go to extremes one way or another apparently. Quote "down with the FDA". I'm at a middle ground. I appreciate the idea of having a system of checks and balances. However, I do not appreciate the big dollar sign that pushes the system to sway one way or another. Nothings perfect.0 -
Exactly! Killing people, making them sick, defrauding them, etc. are all ways to ruin your business. There's no profit in pissing off customers.
How naive can you get? That's an insane statement.
You would rather trust a government bureaucracy that has no vested interest in keeping people safe? How Naïve can you be?
Rigger
Our government does have a vested interest in keeping us safe. That's its overriding purpose. It's why governments exist.
Really? Where are they held accountable? What is their motivation? Because I have a hard time believing that the government just has that big a heart. Besides, the government does a lot more that it's not supposed to do than it does that it's mandated to do. Face it, government is far more bad than good, and it's been that way for hundreds of years. Government has an interest in power, and if you were standing in the way of that they would gladly mow you over with a tank, so keep us safe my backside.
Rigger
Politicians are held accountable at every single election. Pay attention to what they do and act accordingly.
The government might not be the great white knight of all people everywhere, but you can't really be suggesting that we live in a society without one. That's just ignorant.
Government is no more than organized crime, the difference is that the mafia has principles. Politicians are not held accountable, they get bounced out of office and into cushy lobbying posts. Government has more blood on it's hands than all private corporations combined could ever dream of, so why would you put your trust in nameless faceless bureaucrats?
Rigger0 -
Honestly, why do people *WANT* a nanny to tell them how to live their life? Are you admitting to being a dummy or just lazy or what?
Do you research every single product that you purchase? Do you really have time for that?
This is a free market. Without the FDA, countries like China could sell us rat poison and call it a supplement.
How long would that last before people got wise to it? Honestly.
Rigger
It's impossible for a consumer to know exactly what is in a product and where it comes from. A company could be selling toothpaste sweetened with antifreeze for years before the public became aware of it. And once they did, the company could cease to exist, sure. But then the exact same people who owned and ran that company would channel those established plants and importers and factories into a new company without that pesky blemish. Or the company could claim to have switched suppliers, but really be buying the sweetener from the same factory in China that is contracting out for a different shell company.
The food and drug industries need regulation, period. It's the FDA behind those nutrition labels we all love here on MFP. How many products would still be filled with trans fats without the FDA requiring their inclusion on the label?
And to those people claiming the FDA just increases the costs of products. Yes, it does increase the cost of products by requiring that manufacturers run expensive trials and tests with them. It's not the FDA, or FDA fees that increase the price of products.
If you claim that getting rid of the FDA will make things cheaper, you must understand that it will make things cheaper because companies will spend a lot less time and money on testing products for safety. You can't have it both ways.
A fallacy at best. Business doesn't want to kill or harm it's customers, there's no profit in it. Profit is what motivates a company, so tell me, what motivates the FDA?
Rigger
You speak in ignorance of how public health actually works. You seem to be under the impression that the FDA doesn't ever, by itself, take products off the market or deny approval to products by itself.
It does. The FDA does indeed deny approval to products. The FDA rescinds approval of products. The FDA investigates claims of harm of drugs and food and fines companies, or requires them to take things off the market.
Here's the inconsistency in your argument: if the FDA blocks approval of even one drug, or takes just one drug off the market, that's an action that the company itself didn't see fit to make. For all you harp about how much these companies care about their reputation, the FDA literally prevents many of them from doing things they want to do.0 -
Honestly, why do people *WANT* a nanny to tell them how to live their life? Are you admitting to being a dummy or just lazy or what?
Do you research every single product that you purchase? Do you really have time for that?
This is a free market. Without the FDA, countries like China could sell us rat poison and call it a supplement.
How long would that last before people got wise to it? Honestly.
Rigger
It's impossible for a consumer to know exactly what is in a product and where it comes from. A company could be selling toothpaste sweetened with antifreeze for years before the public became aware of it. And once they did, the company could cease to exist, sure. But then the exact same people who owned and ran that company would channel those established plants and importers and factories into a new company without that pesky blemish. Or the company could claim to have switched suppliers, but really be buying the sweetener from the same factory in China that is contracting out for a different shell company.
The food and drug industries need regulation, period. It's the FDA behind those nutrition labels we all love here on MFP. How many products would still be filled with trans fats without the FDA requiring their inclusion on the label?
And to those people claiming the FDA just increases the costs of products. Yes, it does increase the cost of products by requiring that manufacturers run expensive trials and tests with them. It's not the FDA, or FDA fees that increase the price of products.
If you claim that getting rid of the FDA will make things cheaper, you must understand that it will make things cheaper because companies will spend a lot less time and money on testing products for safety. You can't have it both ways.
A fallacy at best. Business doesn't want to kill or harm it's customers, there's no profit in it. Profit is what motivates a company, so tell me, what motivates the FDA?
Rigger
The FDA is motivated by tax dollars. The government doesn't want its citizens to die. Then, there would be no tax dollars.
And seriously, American companies don't want to kill their customers, sure. But do you really think Chinese companies give a rat's *kitten*?
They have their own population to generate profits from. They don't need us. And before you say we shouldn't buy imports, a very large portion of our domestic product is purchased through exports from other countries. If we don't buy imports, they won't buy our exports and our economy would take a serious hit.0 -
This repeated mantra of profit is what will drive businesses to not do any harm to their customers is seriously hilarious. Because history or other less regulated markets shows this to be so true.
A fallacy at best. Business doesn't want to kill or harm it's customers, there's no profit in it. Profit is what motivates a company, so tell me, what motivates the FDA?
0 -
Exactly! Killing people, making them sick, defrauding them, etc. are all ways to ruin your business. There's no profit in pissing off customers.
How naive can you get? That's an insane statement.
You would rather trust a government bureaucracy that has no vested interest in keeping people safe? How Naïve can you be?
Rigger
Our government does have a vested interest in keeping us safe. That's its overriding purpose. It's why governments exist.
Really? Where are they held accountable? What is their motivation? Because I have a hard time believing that the government just has that big a heart. Besides, the government does a lot more that it's not supposed to do than it does that it's mandated to do. Face it, government is far more bad than good, and it's been that way for hundreds of years. Government has an interest in power, and if you were standing in the way of that they would gladly mow you over with a tank, so keep us safe my backside.
Rigger
Politicians are held accountable at every single election. Pay attention to what they do and act accordingly.
The government might not be the great white knight of all people everywhere, but you can't really be suggesting that we live in a society without one. That's just ignorant.
Government is no more than organized crime, the difference is that the mafia has principles. Politicians are not held accountable, they get bounced out of office and into cushy lobbying posts. Government has more blood on it's hands than all private corporations combined could ever dream of, so why would you put your trust in nameless faceless bureaucrats?
Rigger
You know what...
You're right..................... LONG LIVE ANARCHY!
/end sarcasm0 -
No sense arguing anymore, you're all right, bigger government is the answer, I'm convinced, the government loves me, and only want's me to be safe. I feel so much better now, the government could never be wrong. I love big brother, 2+2=5.
I'm out.
Rigger0 -
No sense arguing anymore, you're all right, bigger government is the answer, I'm convinced, the government loves me, and only want's me to be safe. I feel so much better now, the government could never be wrong. I love big brother, 2+2=5.
I'm out.
Rigger
Um... I'm not for increasing regulation. But the complete obliteration of important functions like monitoring goods and products sold to us by malicious nations... yeah... we need to keep that.0 -
No sense arguing anymore, you're all right, bigger government is the answer, I'm convinced, the government loves me, and only want's me to be safe. I feel so much better now, the government could never be wrong. I love big brother, 2+2=5.
I'm out.
Rigger
Ironically, it's the protection of governmental regulatory agencies that is largely responsible for you being so comfortable and happy so as to say that.0 -
No sense arguing anymore, you're all right, bigger government is the answer, I'm convinced, the government loves me, and only want's me to be safe. I feel so much better now, the government could never be wrong. I love big brother, 2+2=5.
I'm out.
In Rigger's World, there are no shades of grey. But there is a lot of anger at every element of modern civilization, brought to him by the evil gubmints.0 -
Has no one suggested an independent company for the testing and investigation of supplement products before release to the general public?
A private, for-profit organization is far less likely to give in to those ever-enticing government bribes--I mean, subsidies.
Big government is getting bigger. It's first concern is power and gaining more power, not consumer safety. Politicians' care only about popular public opinion as it affects their place in office. Sad, but true. If possible, it'd be great if the FDA could be replaced with by a private sector counterpart who actually does their own homework, lab studies and all. At least then consumers could get their money's worth out of the products passed.
Edit: darn typos0 -
No sense arguing anymore, you're all right, bigger government is the answer, I'm convinced, the government loves me, and only want's me to be safe. I feel so much better now, the government could never be wrong. I love big brother, 2+2=5.
I'm out.
In Rigger's World, there are no shades of grey. But there is a lot of anger at every element of modern civilization, brought to him by the evil gubmints.
Somehow, I get the feeling that even if he got his way, he still wouldn't be happy.0 -
Has no one suggested an independent company for the testing and investigation of supplement products before release to the general public?
A private, for-profit organization is far less likely to give in to those ever-enticing government bribes--I mean, subsidies.
Big government is getting bigger. It's first concern is power and gaining more power, not consumer safety. Politicians' care only about popular public opinion as it affects their place in office. Sad, but true. If possible, it'd be great if the FDA could be replaced with by a private sector counterpart who actually does their own homework, lab studies and all. At least then consumer's could get their money's worth out of the products passed.
Actually, the government does contract a lot of that work out.0 -
Yeah, but they still oversee it and make the final decision. If the government really wants to push a certain product, they do so, with little regard to the effectiveness uncovered in the study.
Obviously, if the product is undeniably harming the subjects, then it's discontinued (which is great lol). But my concern is more about whether the reports of the supplement's effectiveness are padded. There's no way to be sure as the current system stands.0 -
How did a post about regulation on an unregulated industry degenerate into shut the government down?
Just gotta get me other 2 cents in:
There was a time when companies did put terrible stuff into products not out of malice but because of cost and lack of regulation. When it was learned that these were dangerous the government took steps to remove it from products and forced companies.
Remember there is a reason coca-cola is called coca-cola.
Mercury made a great skin whitener
Alcohol in baby's cough syrup worked excellent at soothing the infant
Arsenic made a great preservative
Morphine really helped the baby's toothache
Lead goes great in paint
Asbestos is great at preventing fires
Hey kids lets play with radiation your own gieger counter with authentic chunk of uranium0 -
Has no one suggested an independent company for the testing and investigation of supplement products before release to the general public?
A private, for-profit organization is far less likely to give in to those ever-enticing government bribes--I mean, subsidies.
Big government is getting bigger. It's first concern is power and gaining more power, not consumer safety. Politicians' care only about popular public opinion as it affects their place in office. Sad, but true. If possible, it'd be great if the FDA could be replaced with by a private sector counterpart who actually does their own homework, lab studies and all. At least then consumers could get their money's worth out of the products passed.
Edit: darn typos
Think about this for a while longer.
If it hasn't clicked, perhaps a slight rewrite will help.
"A private organization motivated solely by money is far less likely to accept offers of money to pass a product."
How much sense does that statement make now?0 -
It is kind of funny, considering that I am a staunch Libertarian, but I do believe in the necessity of regulating medicines, supplements, and food. Testing whether a product is safe, contains what it says it does, and is not contaminated are not things that an average citizen can do through due diligence. Without these regulations, and if no independent lab has verified has tested them and publishec their results, they are at the mercy of the manufacturer.
Doesn't sound "staunch" to me.
Yeah, having independent thought that strays from party line positions is awful, isnt it?0
This discussion has been closed.
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