A call to more heavily regulate the supplement industry

UCSMiami

I guess none of you folk recall the Consumer Reports protein powder supplement evaluation from a few years ago or the unofficial one done by reddit?

Rage_Phish

So basically you're saying that you, and most other Americans need a babysitter?

Rigger

Americans do need someone standing in between supplement and drug companies, preventing said companies from marketing things that are not safe. Yes.

Does this actually happen, bad drugs still come to market, tainted food still comes to market, so be serious. Government decree can't protect you, you need to be responsible for yourself.

Rigger

yeah and some people still die in car crashes while wearing seatbelts, so why even use them at all?!?

unclehammy

I have no problem with the people buying bee jelly covering the cost of bee jelly safety and efficacy studies.

The people buying bee jelly just might. If you're not not one of them, then what business is it of yours? More importantly, as a non bee jelly consumer, what exactly is it you think gives you the right to force the bee jelly consumers to pay higher prices for their products to help get a bee out of your bonnet (pun intended)? The world in general would be a lot better off without busy bodies running around sticking the government's nose into things because they get an itch.

Government is by FAR responsible for more death, pain, misery AND snake oil in the world than a billion supplement companies. Hell, government has caused more death and injury than all diseases combined. Yet we never seem to run out of busy bodies calling for government to "fix" something new.

richardheath

If something is proven to cause irreparable harm, then get it pulled from the market (like they did with ephedra containing products)

It was the FDA that banned ephedra, against the strong opposition of the companies selling it.

I'm not sure why you would make that comment concerning what you quoted? I don't have a problem with the government (FDA) banning harmful products of this nature since we have the precedent already of making other harmful substances illegal (heroin, cocaine, LSD, methamphetamines, etc.). I don't care if the company strongly opposed it. What I don't want is for the government to decide that it needs to investigate each and every dietary supplement on the market or all of the future products (99% of which are harmless snakeoil) because to do so would be a massive waste of resources.

No one is saying the government should do the investigation.

I said it was a massive waste of resources. I never specified whose resources would be wasted. But no matter what, there would be taxpayer money used if the supplement industry became more heavily regulated. Someone would have to sort through and verify the testing and claims presented by each company. The products won't just magically make it onto the shelves if the company provides enough evidence to show it has beneficial and non harmful effect. When the term 'regulation' is used, it's talking about government oversight unless there's some private regulatory agency that I'm unaware of doing this pro bono.

A lot of the work has already been done. Believe it or not, people in the biomedical sciences take notice of health claims. We test them. Pharma looks at "traditional" medicine to see if they do, in fact, have any efficacy. But why should they do that if they don't have to? They (Pharma) can sell this stuff without having to prove it works. [Read the article in the OP. Many of these supplement companies are already owned by big Pharma companies.]

If someone wants to prove their supplement works, the mechanism is in place.

stumblinthrulife

I have no problem with the people buying bee jelly covering the cost of bee jelly safety and efficacy studies.

The people buying bee jelly just might. If you're not not one of them, then what business is it of yours? More importantly, as a non bee jelly consumer, what exactly is it you think gives you the right to force the bee jelly consumers to pay higher prices for their products to help get a bee out of your bonnet (pun intended)? The world in general would be a lot better off without busy bodies running around sticking the government's nose into things because they get an itch.

Government is by FAR responsible for more death, pain, misery AND snake oil in the world than a billion supplement companies. Hell, government has caused more death and injury than all diseases combined. Yet we never seem to run out of busy bodies calling for government to "fix" something new.

Maybe the investigation would show that bee jelly does precisely squat, and the bee jelly buying public can save themselves the cost of regulation and the cost of bee jelly. Just sayin'

ldrosophila

I am in the industry, (I manage a supplement company) and dearly wish there was more regulation. The claims made by some are outrageous. Inspection is skimpy. Supplement facts are not verified. Ingredient point of origin not specified.

Toothpaste and shampoo and cosmetics are more strongly regulated than supplements. Imagine that something used orally is lesser than topical application.

I got the pleasure of touring a local homeopathic factory when I was in college. The mindset of our tour guide was much like yours he wanted to see more regulation in his industry. He is competing with companies that are not as ethical and can out sell him because of the strict regulations they had put onto their own business.

This company took pride in their products they sold. They provided us with some of the clinical studies that they had done using their own money. We got a tour of how they chose the products to make into the tinctures and powders. Something as simple as ginseng the steps involved to procure the right plants, the timing of harvest, the location, and even how they were stored was astounding.

I was very impressed sadly they do not distribute to my area, but yes the ones who adhere to standards want regulation they want to be monitored. It's much like a hospital getting accreditation even though it is a cost they can show to the public that certain standards are met and maintained.

jonnythan

Homeopathic factory?

You mean the sugar mill, or the bottled water facility?

stumblinthrulife

I am in the industry, (I manage a supplement company) and dearly wish there was more regulation. The claims made by some are outrageous. Inspection is skimpy. Supplement facts are not verified. Ingredient point of origin not specified.

Toothpaste and shampoo and cosmetics are more strongly regulated than supplements. Imagine that something used orally is lesser than topical application.

I got the pleasure of touring a local homeopathic factory when I was in college. The mindset of our tour guide was much like yours he wanted to see more regulation in his industry. He is competing with companies that are not as ethical and can out sell him because of the strict regulations they had put onto their own business.

This company took pride in their products they sold. They provided us with some of the clinical studies that they had done using their own money. We got a tour of how they chose the products to make into the tinctures and powders. Something as simple as ginseng the steps involved to procure the right plants, the timing of harvest, the location, and even how they were stored was astounding.

I was very impressed sadly they do not distribute to my area, but yes the ones who adhere to standards want regulation they want to be monitored. It's much like a hospital getting accreditation even though it is a cost they can show to the public that certain standards are met and maintained.

Not to be picky, but ginseng isn't used in homeopathy, to my knowledge.

Are you sure it wasn't just every day herbals they were making?

Carnivor0us

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/11/vitamins-herbal-dietarysupplementsregulatefda.html

Presented without comment.

I'm thinking we need to more heavily regulate the meal replacement bar industry, amirite?

ldrosophila

Homeopathic factory?

You mean the sugar mill, or the bottled water facility?

They made homepathic tinctures and pills a lot of pure supplements like ginseng, kava kava, um what is the other one that they eat in south africa...most of it got sold to the local wild oats or other health food stores.

My class was pretty cool though in was a phytochemical class and one of our sections was on the regulation (or lack there of) and manufactures of supplements. So we got to take a little field trip, and see the making of supplements in action.

ldrosophila

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/11/vitamins-herbal-dietarysupplementsregulatefda.html

Presented without comment.

I'm thinking we need to more heavily regulate the meal replacement bar industry, amirite?

lol

wheird

I have no problem with the people buying bee jelly covering the cost of bee jelly safety and efficacy studies.

The people buying bee jelly just might. If you're not not one of them, then what business is it of yours? More importantly, as a non bee jelly consumer, what exactly is it you think gives you the right to force the bee jelly consumers to pay higher prices for their products to help get a bee out of your bonnet (pun intended)? The world in general would be a lot better off without busy bodies running around sticking the government's nose into things because they get an itch.

Government is by FAR responsible for more death, pain, misery AND snake oil in the world than a billion supplement companies. Hell, government has caused more death and injury than all diseases combined. Yet we never seem to run out of busy bodies calling for government to "fix" something new.

This...was an interesting rant. It is completely off base and nonsensical, but quite entertaining.

brower47

If something is proven to cause irreparable harm, then get it pulled from the market (like they did with ephedra containing products)

It was the FDA that banned ephedra, against the strong opposition of the companies selling it.

I'm not sure why you would make that comment concerning what you quoted? I don't have a problem with the government (FDA) banning harmful products of this nature since we have the precedent already of making other harmful substances illegal (heroin, cocaine, LSD, methamphetamines, etc.). I don't care if the company strongly opposed it. What I don't want is for the government to decide that it needs to investigate each and every dietary supplement on the market or all of the future products (99% of which are harmless snakeoil) because to do so would be a massive waste of resources.

No one is saying the government should do the investigation.

I said it was a massive waste of resources. I never specified whose resources would be wasted. But no matter what, there would be taxpayer money used if the supplement industry became more heavily regulated. Someone would have to sort through and verify the testing and claims presented by each company. The products won't just magically make it onto the shelves if the company provides enough evidence to show it has beneficial and non harmful effect. When the term 'regulation' is used, it's talking about government oversight unless there's some private regulatory agency that I'm unaware of doing this pro bono.

A lot of the work has already been done. Believe it or not, people in the biomedical sciences take notice of health claims. We test them. Pharma looks at "traditional" medicine to see if they do, in fact, have any efficacy. But why should they do that if they don't have to? They (Pharma) can sell this stuff without having to prove it works. [Read the article in the OP. Many of these supplement companies are already owned by big Pharma companies.]

If someone wants to prove their supplement works, the mechanism is in place.

That's great. I read the OP's link. I'm not sure what your comment had to do with the last comment I made because you didn't address a single one of its points. Let me bold what you didn't address as a response to what you just wrote.

If every supplement that currently is on shelves suddenly needed to get passed through a government agency (assuming FDA) that agency will have to employ X number of people to field the sudden influx of applications submitted immediately and in the future. The more red tape you add to a process, the more the product will cost and the greater drain of government on taxpayers. And for what? Verifying that 99% of the products do little to nothing? I don't want to add millions or billions of dollars to the cost of the government just so I can rest easy knowing that the government has given it's stamp of "this products does nothing" to things like greet bean extract and raspberry keytones. If something is dangerous, spend the money to deal with that, not the tons of non harmful crap.

Edit: can't stop making typos today

ldrosophila

I am in the industry, (I manage a supplement company) and dearly wish there was more regulation. The claims made by some are outrageous. Inspection is skimpy. Supplement facts are not verified. Ingredient point of origin not specified.

Toothpaste and shampoo and cosmetics are more strongly regulated than supplements. Imagine that something used orally is lesser than topical application.

I got the pleasure of touring a local homeopathic factory when I was in college. The mindset of our tour guide was much like yours he wanted to see more regulation in his industry. He is competing with companies that are not as ethical and can out sell him because of the strict regulations they had put onto their own business.

This company took pride in their products they sold. They provided us with some of the clinical studies that they had done using their own money. We got a tour of how they chose the products to make into the tinctures and powders. Something as simple as ginseng the steps involved to procure the right plants, the timing of harvest, the location, and even how they were stored was astounding.

I was very impressed sadly they do not distribute to my area, but yes the ones who adhere to standards want regulation they want to be monitored. It's much like a hospital getting accreditation even though it is a cost they can show to the public that certain standards are met and maintained.

Not to be picky, but ginseng isn't used in homeopathy, to my knowledge.

Are you sure it wasn't just every day herbals they were making?

IDK they called themselves homeopathic they made tinctures and stuff

brower47

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/11/vitamins-herbal-dietarysupplementsregulatefda.html

Presented without comment.

I'm thinking we need to more heavily regulate the meal replacement bar industry, amirite?

^

I think the government needs to spend money investigating the health claims of coconut oil, pomegranate seeds, kale, cauliflower, chia seeds, and every other supposed miracle food fad out there. After all, someone might be duped into thinking those foods are the answer to all their health concerns out there. Can't have the public misinformed with potentially incorrect claims. That's the job of the government, right? To make sure that, despite anyone's ability to do even a tiny amount of personal research, they don't get duped.

The government: Saving people from making their own decisions and choices since (fill in your own date here).

jonnythan

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/11/vitamins-herbal-dietarysupplementsregulatefda.html

Presented without comment.

I'm thinking we need to more heavily regulate the meal replacement bar industry, amirite?

^

I think the government needs to spend money investigating the health claims of coconut oil, pomegranate seeds, kale, cauliflower, chia seeds, and every other supposed miracle food fad out there. After all, someone might be duped into thinking those foods are the answer to all their health concerns out there. Can't have the public misinformed with potentially incorrect claims. That's the job of the government, right? To make sure that, despite anyone's ability to do even a tiny amount of personal research, they don't get duped.

The government: Saving people from making their own decisions and choices since (fill in your own date here).

Those are food, not supplements.

unclehammy

I have no problem with the people buying bee jelly covering the cost of bee jelly safety and efficacy studies.

The people buying bee jelly just might. If you're not not one of them, then what business is it of yours? More importantly, as a non bee jelly consumer, what exactly is it you think gives you the right to force the bee jelly consumers to pay higher prices for their products to help get a bee out of your bonnet (pun intended)? The world in general would be a lot better off without busy bodies running around sticking the government's nose into things because they get an itch.

Government is by FAR responsible for more death, pain, misery AND snake oil in the world than a billion supplement companies. Hell, government has caused more death and injury than all diseases combined. Yet we never seem to run out of busy bodies calling for government to "fix" something new.

Maybe the investigation would show that bee jelly does precisely squat, and the bee jelly buying public can save themselves the cost of regulation and the cost of bee jelly. Just sayin'

Or maybe the bee jelly buying public can figure that out for themselves when there's no evidence that they're benefiting from the jelly. Then they can save themselves the costs of regulation and bee jelly, and society can be spared the (incalculable) of further empowering the government.

jonnythan

I have no problem with the people buying bee jelly covering the cost of bee jelly safety and efficacy studies.

The people buying bee jelly just might. If you're not not one of them, then what business is it of yours? More importantly, as a non bee jelly consumer, what exactly is it you think gives you the right to force the bee jelly consumers to pay higher prices for their products to help get a bee out of your bonnet (pun intended)? The world in general would be a lot better off without busy bodies running around sticking the government's nose into things because they get an itch.

Government is by FAR responsible for more death, pain, misery AND snake oil in the world than a billion supplement companies. Hell, government has caused more death and injury than all diseases combined. Yet we never seem to run out of busy bodies calling for government to "fix" something new.

Maybe the investigation would show that bee jelly does precisely squat, and the bee jelly buying public can save themselves the cost of regulation and the cost of bee jelly. Just sayin'

Or maybe the bee jelly buying public can figure that out for themselves when there's no evidence that they're benefiting from the jelly. Then they can save themselves the costs of regulation and bee jelly, and society can be spared the (incalculable) of further empowering the government.

Turns out the public is extraordinarily bad at separating marketing claims from scientific fact

toddis

It seems to me when an industry is fearful of being regulated they come up with self-regulation. Supplements have testing agencies that they hire to state that their product is true to the label. This, one would assume, would increase the cost the consumer pays for the product. I'm not sure how one could verify the veracity of the claims of the testing agencies though...

I believe you can use other countries food/supplement issues as an example of what happens in an unregulated/overregulated environment.