Health Insurance Penalty for Overweight and Smokers

JewelsinBigD

I heard from a friend that DELL was offering her a rebate on her health insurance if she got her BMI under 30, then I read this-
http://t.news.msn.com/us/how-your-company-is-watching-your-waistline

But we all know for those who exercise that BMI is a terrible way to measure health, thoughts?

JewelsinBigD

bump because I don't know how these even show up to be commented on..

TheLadyBane

My sister and her boyfriend both lift weights and compete in body building shows. They are active and healthy. According to BMI he is morbidly obese and she is obese. There need to be safeguards and common sense practices in place to prevent healthy individuals from being penalized for being "overweight".

ShannonMpls

But we all know for those who exercise that BMI is a terrible way to measure health, thoughts?

As a sole indicator of health? Yes.
But it's one of several biometrics that can be used to assess one's health and - more importantly - health risk factors.

It's a rare individual who is obese due solely to high muscle mass and not excess fat.

RM10003

At my company, you can get a kickback of $250 every 6 months if you go to the gym a certain number of times. That seems to me to be a less arbitrary way of doing it than BMI, although I'm sure those who prefer to exercise at home or outside wouldn't agree with me.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

TheLadyBane

At my company, you can get a kickback of $250 every 6 months if you go to the gym a certain number of times. That seems to me to be a less arbitrary way of doing it than BMI, although I'm sure those who prefer to exercise at home or outside wouldn't agree with me.

I would love to have something like that. My company would essentially be paying for my gym membership (with a little left over for fun:bigsmile: ) as long as was utilizing my membership. That is a pretty great perk.

JewelsinBigD

Should be waist-to-hip and waist-to-height ratios they look at, not BMI.

That would be great! OR at least Body fat percentage...BMI doesn't work for most athletes

JewelsinBigD

But we all know for those who exercise that BMI is a terrible way to measure health, thoughts?

As a sole indicator of health? Yes.
But it's one of several biometrics that can be used to assess one's health and - more importantly - health risk factors.

It's a rare individual who is obese due solely to high muscle mass and not excess fat.

Actually every trainer at my gym is obese under the BMI guidelines, and I will be obese when I have lost all my weight and am at 23% body fat. No kidding. Some of us are just naturally more muscular - I look at a weight machine and start to gain muscle.

TheGymGypsy

Instead of using a silly outdated measurement, I think they only way to measure real fitness is to do a basic fitness test. Old school. Run a mile, do a certain number of push ups, etc.

mammamaurer

ElliottTN

Hey, at the very least the dropped the word game and are calling it a penalty instead of a "benefit" for those with the "healthy BMI"

I am a fatty according to BMI btw.

Nouurann

Hey, at the very least the dropped the word game and are calling it a penalty instead of a "benefit" for those with the "healthy BMI"

I am a fatty according to BMI btw.

yupp. you're so obese I can't even handle it.

Literally. Cannot. Handle. It.

:blushing:

buttt while BMI is the worst way to base this off, I don't think there's anything wrong with the principle besides poor execution.

ldrosophila

Correct me if Im wrong, but I thought the Affordable Care Act meant you couldnt base rates on a preexisting conditions?

It's not a very fair measure to anyone who is muscular or pregnant.

Might as well give every one a genetic test and penalize them if they have a marker for cancer.

mister_universe

I'm as big of a BMI basher as anyone, and think I like the idea of an incentive toward healthier living.

My current BMI is a shade over 25, but that is misleading due to high muscle content (Much like ElliottTN). However, for me to get over the threshold of 30 that Dell is offering as the cutoff, I'd have to add roughly 35 pounds of additional muscle onto my frame. 30 is a *very* doable BMI number for even extreme cases.

I'm 6'2", currently 200 pounds, 32" waist measure. For someone who is of a more conventional body makeup, 6'2" at 235 pounds is a pretty reasonable target as a place to draw the healthy vs. needs work line. Remember, nobody is proposing canceling coverage at a BMI over 30, or increasing rates...rather they are only offering incentive to achieve a very attainable level of health. There's a very big difference between that and increasing rates or canceling coverage.

Anything based off BMI will never be perfect, as the starting premise is flawed, but...as an opening offer of "get healthier and we'll refund you some money", it's very respectable.

JewelsinBigD

I would have to get plastic surgery to alter the size of certain aspects of my physique that are not apparently going to be impacted by my weight loss to meet this. In one respect I am still the same size I was when I started this 61 pounds ago. So if I had them removed or reduced, then I could make it to 30BMI but my body fat would be low. With a LBM of 166 pounds now, for me to get to 30BMI I could weigh no more than 205. Pretty darn lean for someone of my age.

MysteriousMerlin

I work for a hospital. Our insurance is changing next year, so that anyone who smokes will have to pay more per pay period to stay a smoker, but in 2015, must be smoke-free to remain employed.

MissyJessy

I sell health insurance in Canada, now i understand that it is VERY different between Canada and the US with that being said there are more questions that come into play than simply "whats your BMI".

Typically life style is assessed and in Canada that is one of the questions we ask.

Hell on life insurance they want to know what your driving history is like to assess risk.

When it comes to smokers, everyone knows that if you smoke for a long period of time your chance of cancers and other medical conditions increase substantially, most often we ask if you smoke if so how many packs a week/a day etc.

When it comes to Overweight people.... im sorry and i dont mean to be harsh here but if your over weight chances are your health is not at the formost of your mind. Obviously there are exceptions to this so again thats why we ask further questions to determine the risk.

So before going on a rant on here (which i admist is way more fun to do then actually doing your own research) actually track down an application for health insurance and read the questionair and keep in mind that there are usually more than one step. For instance life insurance for certain limits requires a nurse to come to your home to take blood samples... Take a look at the application then judge how unfair the questions are. And i say questions because there is more than just "whats your BMI".

/end rant lol

MissyJessy

I'm as big of a BMI basher as anyone, and think I like the idea of an incentive toward healthier living.

My current BMI is a shade over 25, but that is misleading due to high muscle content (Much like ElliottTN). However, for me to get over the threshold of 30 that Dell is offering as the cutoff, I'd have to add roughly 35 pounds of additional muscle onto my frame. 30 is a *very* doable BMI number for even extreme cases.

I'm 6'2", currently 200 pounds, 32" waist measure. For someone who is of a more conventional body makeup, 6'2" at 235 pounds is a pretty reasonable target as a place to draw the healthy vs. needs work line. Remember, nobody is proposing canceling coverage at a BMI over 30, or increasing rates...rather they are only offering incentive to achieve a very attainable level of health. There's a very big difference between that and increasing rates or canceling coverage.

Anything based off BMI will never be perfect, as the starting premise is flawed, but...as an opening offer of "get healthier and we'll refund you some money", it's very respectable.

love this!

vtmoon

Correct me if Im wrong, but I thought the Affordable Care Act meant you couldnt base rates on a preexisting conditions?

It's not a very fair measure to anyone who is muscular or pregnant.

Might as well give every one a genetic test and penalize them if they have a marker for cancer.

Being fat and/or a smoker are not considered as pre-existing conditions, unless you got like medical treatment specifically for them before to make them a condition.

Also this is the company doing it and not the Health insurer it seems. So the company doesn't have to pay higher premium to the insurers because it has healthier employees that don't need the insurance as much.

ldrosophila

Correct me if Im wrong, but I thought the Affordable Care Act meant you couldnt base rates on a preexisting conditions?

It's not a very fair measure to anyone who is muscular or pregnant.

Might as well give every one a genetic test and penalize them if they have a marker for cancer.

Being fat and/or a smoker are not considered as pre-existing conditions, unless you got like medical treatment specifically for them before to make them a condition.

Interesting now with the AMA classifying obesity as a disease it might be possible to argue that it is a preexisting, but I dont know.

MissyJessy

The resulting conditions from smoking or obesity would be considered preexisting.

Cancer, COPD, Heart attack, Stroke, chronic pain, even depression plays a role in the premiums.

I dont blame companies for not wanting to pay the higher premiums for higher risks especially with so many people unemployed... unfortunatly it puts all the control in the companies hands.

But good on them for providing incentives to those who want to change and get healthy :flowerforyou:

ldrosophila

I sell health insurance in Canada, now i understand that it is VERY different between Canada and the US with that being said there are more questions that come into play than simply "whats your BMI".

Typically life style is assessed and in Canada that is one of the questions we ask.

Hell on life insurance they want to know what your driving history is like to assess risk.

When it comes to smokers, everyone knows that if you smoke for a long period of time your chance of cancers and other medical conditions increase substantially, most often we ask if you smoke if so how many packs a week/a day etc.

When it comes to Overweight people.... im sorry and i dont mean to be harsh here but if your over weight chances are your health is not at the formost of your mind. Obviously there are exceptions to this so again thats why we ask further questions to determine the risk.

So before going on a rant on here (which i admist is way more fun to do then actually doing your own research) actually track down an application for health insurance and read the questionair and keep in mind that there are usually more than one step. For instance life insurance for certain limits requires a nurse to come to your home to take blood samples... Take a look at the application then judge how unfair the questions are. And i say questions because there is more than just "whats your BMI".

/end rant lol

How does that work in Canada are somehow obese or smoking Canadians taxed more for the healthcare? Are they penalized and if so how?

SpecialKitty7

i thought it was a bit of a rip off to expect people to get to one arbitrary standard. what if your bmi is 31 you have a lot less to go than the person that starts at 40. what if the person at 40 is trying his/her butt off to get under a 30 bmi, but it's taking a long time? should they not be rewarded for trying, or at least less penalized?

vtmoon

I'm pretty sure if you got to HR and show them a six-pack, they will make an exception. :laugh:

DymonNdaRgh40

I work for a hospital. Our insurance is changing next year, so that anyone who smokes will have to pay more per pay period to stay a smoker, but in 2015, must be smoke-free to remain employed.

Same here. We already have a smoke-free environment in place at the hospital. Also non-smokers get a nice incentive toward health coverage this year in addition to a wellness credit that we receive.

ldrosophila

I'm pretty sure if you got to HR and show them a six-pack, they will make an exception. :laugh:

Like this...

vtmoon

I'm pretty sure if you got to HR and show them a six-pack, they will make an exception. :laugh:

Like this...

Whatever works to get you that money!