Lifting, Eating "Clean," and Muscle Definition

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  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
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    Well let's say the drugs help a little too. As I've mentioned, whole foods are less calorie dense and if you've seen a pro bodybuilder eat in the off season, it's like a week's worth of food for me in one day for them. So eating more volume helps to keep them from going insane. I haven't really known a pro body builder yet that doesn't eat some junk food in the off season. Jay Cutler claimed to, but then there were pictures posted of him eating a Double Western Bacon cheeseburger while relaxing.
    Don't get me wrong, a diet consisting of just junk food isn't going to cut it for them, but for pure bulk up, these guys will eat just about anything as long as it has high protein in it.

    Wasn't referring to Cutler, Heath, or any of the other drugged out bodybuilders in my response. Look at someone who's a natural bodybuilder e.g. Cory Gregory. I'm sure he was the occasional "Double Western Bacon cheeseburger" but to get his lean, muscular look do you really think he doesn't eat clean most of the time? Seriously?

    Bulking is a different topic and not what I was referring to in my response. Obviously, if you want to bulk up you need to eat in a surplus. But again, WHAT YOU EAT will make a difference in body composition. I'll use myself for an example. I have been trying to bulk up since July but want to put on as little fat as possible. Eating 2800kcal/day as clean as I can, I've gained 7lbs and haven't put on any fat. Pretty good IMO for someone who started at 125lbs. I guarantee you if I was eating 2800 kcal of CRAP my body composition at this point would be much different.

    It's funny to me that a clean diet vs a crap one is even being debated one this forum. Just wow. Forget body composition, we haven't even touched on what eating unhealthy does for your health in general.
    Logical fallacy. Excluding the middle.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    Well let's say the drugs help a little too. As I've mentioned, whole foods are less calorie dense and if you've seen a pro bodybuilder eat in the off season, it's like a week's worth of food for me in one day for them. So eating more volume helps to keep them from going insane. I haven't really known a pro body builder yet that doesn't eat some junk food in the off season. Jay Cutler claimed to, but then there were pictures posted of him eating a Double Western Bacon cheeseburger while relaxing.
    Don't get me wrong, a diet consisting of just junk food isn't going to cut it for them, but for pure bulk up, these guys will eat just about anything as long as it has high protein in it.

    Wasn't referring to Cutler, Heath, or any of the other drugged out bodybuilders in my response. Look at someone who's a natural bodybuilder e.g. Cory Gregory. I'm sure he was the occasional "Double Western Bacon cheeseburger" but to get his lean, muscular look do you really think he doesn't eat clean most of the time? Seriously?

    Bulking is a different topic and not what I was referring to in my response. Obviously, if you want to bulk up you need to eat in a surplus. But again, WHAT YOU EAT will make a difference in body composition. I'll use myself for an example. I have been trying to bulk up since July but want to put on as little fat as possible. Eating 2800kcal/day as clean as I can, I've gained 7lbs and haven't put on any fat. Pretty good IMO for someone who started at 125lbs. I guarantee you if I was eating 2800 kcal of CRAP my body composition at this point would be much different.

    It's funny to me that a clean diet vs a crap one is even being debated one this forum. Just wow. Forget body composition, we haven't even touched on what eating unhealthy does for your health in general.

    Define "unhealthy" eating and a "crap diet".
  • WhiteRabbit1313
    WhiteRabbit1313 Posts: 1,091 Member
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    "everything in moderation including moderation" ;)

    ETA: i don't usually do motivational quotes, but i like this one.

    I like that :)
  • msf74
    msf74 Posts: 3,498 Member
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    Ok, so, it would be reasonable for me to continue to eat an "80/20 diet," count calories (which is what I've been doing, nutritionally speaking), and achieve visible results, if I put in the physical work, right?

    That would work.

    Clean eating tends to be a more useful concept when you prefer not to track calories as the likelihood is that it will result in a spontaneous calorie deficit (although this is not guaranteed!)
  • WhiteRabbit1313
    WhiteRabbit1313 Posts: 1,091 Member
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    Ok, so, it would be reasonable for me to continue to eat an "80/20 diet," count calories (which is what I've been doing, nutritionally speaking), and achieve visible results, if I put in the physical work, right?

    That would work.

    Clean eating tends to be a more useful concept when you prefer not to track calories as the likelihood is that it will result in a spontaneous calorie deficit (although this is not guaranteed!)

    Ahhhh...I thought this might be a reason, also. I lost weight on Atkins Induction, but plateaued. I suspect the reason that I initially lost weight was due to cutting back on calories via limiting food groups, and the reason I stopped losing was due to the fact that I was no longer eating at a deficit after the initial weight loss.
  • emilynw10
    emilynw10 Posts: 60
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    I'm pretty sure your body DOES recognize all of the million mystery applications of GM corn found in a big mac. It may not affect your weight, but it'll affect your health.
  • p4ulmiller
    p4ulmiller Posts: 588 Member
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    "everything in moderation including moderation" ;)

    My new favourite MFPer.
  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
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    I'm pretty sure your body DOES recognize all of the million mystery applications of GM corn found in a big mac. It may not affect your weight, but it'll affect your health.
    Exactly which "mystery applications" are you referring to? That might be the silliest thing I've read all morning, and I've read some silly stuff on here today.
  • Morgaath
    Morgaath Posts: 679 Member
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    Let's define "Eating Clean," as it was told to me and focus on THIS loose definition:

    "whole grains, hormone free meat, veggies, and water"

    Ok, the above is what I was told that I HAD to eat, and avoid all other foods, in order to achieve the "ripped effect" when lifting.

    In your experience, is this True or false?

    (Please, only those with experience in achieving actual results respond to this.)

    Back in the day I was cutting grass for a living, quite a few of us had 6packs, and not a single one of us was not scarfing down at fast food joints, dining on boxes of processed food, pizza, and several of us met up every Fri at Po' Folks for all you can eat fried catfish night, and had an agreement with the manages to hit a different place each week, as we could put a good dent in the profits. None of that was "clean" eating, and I don't think any of us ever hit a gym.

    Now, I sit at a desk all day, go to the gym, count calories, and hope to lose the fat.
  • BusyRaeNOTBusty
    BusyRaeNOTBusty Posts: 7,166 Member
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    I have decent muscle definition. I do not eat clean but that or any definition.
  • emilynw10
    emilynw10 Posts: 60
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    I'm pretty sure your body DOES recognize all of the million mystery applications of GM corn found in a big mac. It may not affect your weight, but it'll affect your health.
    Exactly which "mystery applications" are you referring to? That might be the silliest thing I've read all morning, and I've read some silly stuff on here today.

    The website is in pdf, so it won't let me copy/paste: http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/getnutrition/ingredientslist.pdf
    Take a look at the bun and sauce. Not to mention the meat itself.
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
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    I'm pretty sure your body DOES recognize all of the million mystery applications of GM corn found in a big mac. It may not affect your weight, but it'll affect your health.
    Exactly which "mystery applications" are you referring to? That might be the silliest thing I've read all morning, and I've read some silly stuff on here today.

    The website is in pdf, so it won't let me copy/paste: http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/getnutrition/ingredientslist.pdf
    Take a look at the bun and sauce. Not to mention the meat itself.

    So the 'mystery' applications are stated via a world wide, publicly available communication medium.

    That doesn't sound very mysterious to me. I'd hazard to say that it's positively transparent.

    Look, if you don't want to eat it, don't eat it. Just don't go around saying other people shouldn't either.
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
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    I'm guessing reducing water retention for competition is beyond the scope of this question.
  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
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    I'm pretty sure your body DOES recognize all of the million mystery applications of GM corn found in a big mac. It may not affect your weight, but it'll affect your health.
    Exactly which "mystery applications" are you referring to? That might be the silliest thing I've read all morning, and I've read some silly stuff on here today.

    The website is in pdf, so it won't let me copy/paste: http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/getnutrition/ingredientslist.pdf
    Take a look at the bun and sauce. Not to mention the meat itself.
    I'm still not seeing any mystery applications. I see pretty straight forward recipes. Would you feel better if they listed "vitamin c" instead of calling it "ascorbic acid?" There's nothing mystical, magical, weird, or harmful in any of the ingredients lists, it's stuff you eat in other foods on a daily basis.

    It's just that those other foods don't require an "ingredients list."
  • emilynw10
    emilynw10 Posts: 60
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    I'm pretty sure your body DOES recognize all of the million mystery applications of GM corn found in a big mac. It may not affect your weight, but it'll affect your health.
    Exactly which "mystery applications" are you referring to? That might be the silliest thing I've read all morning, and I've read some silly stuff on here today.

    The website is in pdf, so it won't let me copy/paste: http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/getnutrition/ingredientslist.pdf
    Take a look at the bun and sauce. Not to mention the meat itself.

    So the 'mystery' applications are stated via a world wide, publicly available communication medium.

    That doesn't sound very mysterious to me. I'd hazard to say that it's positively transparent.

    Look, if you don't want to eat it, don't eat it. Just don't go around saying other people shouldn't either.

    yeahhhh, super transparent...

    I'm not saying people shouldn't eat it. I'm a huge fan of donuts and poptarts and those have the same crap in them. I'm just saying it's not the same. Processed food is not the same as real food.... period.

    I don't know anything about eating for weight loss/muscle gain, so if people are saying you can eat it and look great, you probably can. But for health purposes, I think the list of ingredients is more important than the nutrition facts.
  • WhiteRabbit1313
    WhiteRabbit1313 Posts: 1,091 Member
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    I'm guessing reducing water retention for competition is beyond the scope of this question.

    Oy...yeah. You see the pic. I'm not even close to competition, nor is that my goal. I want to look great in a bathing suit and in jeans. If I get REALLY into this, maybe competitions will be in order, but, for now, I'll focus on first things first. haha! :)
  • WhiteRabbit1313
    WhiteRabbit1313 Posts: 1,091 Member
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    I don't know anything about eating for weight loss/muscle gain, so if people are saying you can eat it and look great, you probably can. But for health purposes, I think the list of ingredients is more important than the nutrition facts.

    Agreed, but that's an entirely different topic. I just wanted to know if I could have a muffin (homemade, of course!) while I train. LOL!
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
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    I agree, you want to eat as clean as possible and eat the appropriate amount of calories for your goals. Perhaps slightly off topic but I personally don't believe "calories are calories". Your body will react very differently to a 450 calorie McDonald's burger than it will to a 450 calories of lean steak and vegetables. If this wasn't the case, pro bodybuilders (for example) wouldn't live off of Chicken & veggies (and other "clean" foods) to achieve the very low body fat %s while still being muscular.
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html
  • emilynw10
    emilynw10 Posts: 60
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    I'm pretty sure your body DOES recognize all of the million mystery applications of GM corn found in a big mac. It may not affect your weight, but it'll affect your health.
    Exactly which "mystery applications" are you referring to? That might be the silliest thing I've read all morning, and I've read some silly stuff on here today.

    The website is in pdf, so it won't let me copy/paste: http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/getnutrition/ingredientslist.pdf
    Take a look at the bun and sauce. Not to mention the meat itself.
    I'm still not seeing any mystery applications. I see pretty straight forward recipes. Would you feel better if they listed "vitamin c" instead of calling it "ascorbic acid?" There's nothing mystical, magical, weird, or harmful in any of the ingredients lists, it's stuff you eat in other foods on a daily basis.

    It's just that those other foods don't require an "ingredients list."

    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
  • emilynw10
    emilynw10 Posts: 60
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    I don't know anything about eating for weight loss/muscle gain, so if people are saying you can eat it and look great, you probably can. But for health purposes, I think the list of ingredients is more important than the nutrition facts.

    Agreed, but that's an entirely different topic. I just wanted to know if I could have a muffin (homemade, of course!) while I train. LOL!

    I'm super sorry to have sidetracked your thread!

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