Sodium - my new enemy

louisetteN

Thank you so much for your replies, guys! It really means a lot to me! I don't have any medical issues, but it just scared me a little bit to see so much sodium on my food diary.

BrainyBurro

sodium is not the devil it's been made out to be. both sodium and potassium are important electrolytes.

focus more on keeping the right balance between sodium and potassium, rather than worrying about getting too much of one or the other.

http://healthyliving.msn.com/diseases/osteoporosis/potassium-and-sodium-the-dynamic-duo-1
http://www.drsinatra.com/proper-sodium-potassium-balance-reduces-cardiovascular-risk/

jacksonpt

I don't even track sodium. do you have hypertension or any other conditions that require you to keep your consumption low? sodium is actually an electrolyte and it is important to make sure your intake is at the correct level. if you do not consume enough you may develop a sodium deficiency.

too much sodium is also a bad thing.

Not necessarily. "bad" is relative. so is "too much".

For f*cks sake people! Just stop this! Are you f*cking 8 years old?

Nope, and I can prove it by not feeling the need to say *kitten* every 5th word.

I'm not saying it's completely benign, but it's also not the devil some people make it out be. The average person, especially the average 18yr old (like the OP is) don't need to worry about sodium intake assuming they are on a reasonable diet. If they are living at McDonalds, then yes... sodium might become a problem. But then, they've probably got other health issues brewing too.

jacksonpt

Thank you so much for your replies, guys! It really means a lot to me! I don't have any medical issues, but it just scared me a little bit to see so much sodium on my food diary.

Why? 1500mg is not a lot. And as some have said, your body actually needs sodium. And it becomes even more important if you are active. Your body tries to keep itself hydrated (for lack of a better word). Sodium and potassium intake can affect this. Get either too high or too low and you could see problems. But what's required for it to become a problem is more than what most people get when on a decent, balanced diet.

This is a question of health. If your sodium intake is actually high enough to be concerned, then chances are you've got other health/dietary issues too.

markdlong

I've been tracking my sodium for a while now. I am pretty liberal with it, aiming for around 2500-3000mg per day. I am tracking it primarily because of the fact that by avoiding high sodium foods, I am -- in essence -- forcing myself to make even better choices with the food that I'm eating. Keeping my sodium down helps me to avoid a lot of processed foods, fast foods, and restaurant foods, and instead eat more naturally, whole and natural foods. Plus it's good to be able to correlate any big upticks in my weight (I weigh daily) to water retention.

LilRedRooster

A cardiac/low-sodium (i.e. high blood pressure, heart failure, etc.) diet is set at 2g (or 2000mg) or less of sodium per day. 1500 is well within that, so you're actually geting "low" sodium.

For comparison, a normal individual without any issues can have between 3g-4g (3000-4000mg) per day, and that's considered "acceptable".

Sodium is not "evil", by any means. You actually need a certain sodium content to your blood to maintain normal cellular function, so as long as you're within a nice mid-range and you don't have any other health issues, sodium is not something to really be THAT worried about.

Stoshew71

Drink lots of water. They say 8 glasses, but I am trying to drink a gallon a day. Not there yet. Also, exercising to the point where you get a good sweat on will flush that sodium out with all the water you are now drinking. But be careful, you also loose other important electrolytes like potassium. So bulk up on those if you do a lot of sweating.

TheSlorax

I don't even track sodium. do you have hypertension or any other conditions that require you to keep your consumption low? sodium is actually an electrolyte and it is important to make sure your intake is at the correct level. if you do not consume enough you may develop a sodium deficiency.

too much sodium is also a bad thing.

can you please link to any sources that substantiate this claim as applicable to someone without health concerns that require a low sodium intake? OP is worried about consuming 1500mg which is very low. I would be concerned if they consumed even less.

i sure can.

http://www.heart.org/idc/groups/heart-public/@wcm/@hcm/documents/downloadable/ucm_300625.pdf

the AHA website is not a peer-reviewed source.

Finding 2: The committee found that the evidence from studies on direct health outcomes was insufficient and inconsistent regarding an association between sodium intake below 2,300 mg per day and benefit or risk of CVD outcomes (including stroke and CVD mortality) or all-cause mortality in the general U.S. population.

Conclusion 2: The committee determined that evidence from studies on direct health outcomes is inconsistent and insufficient to conclude that lowering sodium intakes below 2,300 mg per day either increases or decreases risk of CVD outcomes (including stroke and CVD mortality) or all-cause mortality in the general U.S. population.

Recognizing the limitations of the available evidence, the committee found no consistent evidence to support an association between sodium intake and either a beneficial or adverse effect on health outcomes other than CVD outcomes (including stroke and CVD mortality) and all-cause mortality.

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18311

Nachise

I am one of those salt sensitive people. If I eat salty foods, my BP will spike. Some of us do have to watch how much sodium we consume, and keep it to a range of 1500 to 1800 mg. per day. I have been this way my entire life. For those of you who don't have to track it, God bless you!

My advice to the OP is to avoid processed foods and ready-made meals. Learn to cook, and learn how to use your spice rack. A number of foods have naturally occurring levels of sodium, such as red meat and celery. Not much, but it is there. Big offenders: cheese, processed meats, bacon, ham, and soy sauce. Avoid soy sauce, and foods that have soy sauce based sauces, i.e., teriyaki, and Chinese brown sauces.

AmyP619

packaged foods/stuff in cans = sodium

avoid or get low sodium products and you're good.

I've also been tracking my sodium because it can get out of hand very quickly. I look at the content of calories and sodium in everything that I eat.

Sarahndipity30

I don't even track sodium. do you have hypertension or any other conditions that require you to keep your consumption low? sodium is actually an electrolyte and it is important to make sure your intake is at the correct level. if you do not consume enough you may develop a sodium deficiency.

too much sodium is also a bad thing.

can you please link to any sources that substantiate this claim as applicable to someone without health concerns that require a low sodium intake? OP is worried about consuming 1500mg which is very low. I would be concerned if they consumed even less.

i sure can.

http://www.heart.org/idc/groups/heart-public/@wcm/@hcm/documents/downloadable/ucm_300625.pdf

the AHA website is not a peer-reviewed source.

Finding 2: The committee found that the evidence from studies on direct health outcomes was insufficient and inconsistent regarding an association between sodium intake below 2,300 mg per day and benefit or risk of CVD outcomes (including stroke and CVD mortality) or all-cause mortality in the general U.S. population.

Conclusion 2: The committee determined that evidence from studies on direct health outcomes is inconsistent and insufficient to conclude that lowering sodium intakes below 2,300 mg per day either increases or decreases risk of CVD outcomes (including stroke and CVD mortality) or all-cause mortality in the general U.S. population.

Recognizing the limitations of the available evidence, the committee found no consistent evidence to support an association between sodium intake and either a beneficial or adverse effect on health outcomes other than CVD outcomes (including stroke and CVD mortality) and all-cause mortality.

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18311

LOL.


1. Everyones opinion on this specific topic is going to be different. People need to do what works for them. As long as they are doing that, and staying within healthy limits and if need be, having a licensed medical professional guiding them, they should be fine.
2. It may not be "Committee Approved" but i also don't think the AHA doesn't know what it's talking about. It might not meet some peoples standards but it's a healthy guideline to use when you are unsure.
3. I stand by my original statement. there is such a thing as too much sodium, just as there is such a thing as too little. I was merely making an observational statement. at 1500 MG a day, that might be too low for some people, but if the OP is comofrtable with that and not showing any signs of a deficiencey there is nothing wrong with it.

IMO though - "..other than CVD outcomes (including stroke and CVD mortality) and all-cause mortality."<-would be a good reason to watch my sodium intake.

tfleischer

Sodium: How much do you need?

The Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommend limiting sodium to less than 2,300 mg a day — or 1,500 mg if you're age 51 or older, or if you are black, or if you have high blood pressure, diabetes or chronic kidney disease.

Keep in mind that these are upper limits, and less is usually best, especially if you're sensitive to the effects of sodium. If you aren't sure how much sodium your diet should include, talk to your doctor or dietitian.

Source -- http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/NU00284

Those are numbers for normal people: 2300 mg per day. Not for obese people, or those with other issues.


Sodium and Obesity in the Pathogenesis of Hypertension
Abstract

In the present work I focus on the pathophysiological mechanisms that may explain the association between high sodium intake, obesity and high blood pressure. Despite epidemiological and etiological controversies on the link between excess sodium in the diet and elevated arterial pressure, the association could be explained on the basis of three different pathophysiological mechanisms: (1) abnormal electrolyte transport across cell membranes, a defect that alters sodium/potassium exchange and also sodium/calcium exchanges, increasing the concentration of intracellular calcium ions that heightens vessel wall tension and the smooth muscle process, (2) increased sympathetic nervous system activity and (3) altered cellular sodium concentration that induces waterlogging in the peripheral arteriolar walls. These mechanisms increase peripheral resistance and enhance arterial pressure.

Early epidemiological studies documented a strong association between obesity and hypertension; and a greater incidence of high blood pressure and diabetes was reported in persons with upper body obesity (high waist/hip ratio). Researchers have explained obesity-related hypertension accordingly with various mechanisms. Hyperinsulinemia and vascular resistance may trigger the metabolic and adrenergic changes described in obese hypertensive patients in several ways. Insulin may increase absorption of sodium in the diluting segment of the distal nephron with consequent water retention. Alternatively, insulin might alter sodium/potassium distribution thus causing increased vascular peripheral resistance. The increased sodium stimulates adrenergic activity. The water retention in obese subjects increases absolute volume that is predominantly redistributed in the cardiopulmonary area, leading to augmented venous return and cardiac output. These changes in association with a total peripheral resistance considered inappropriately normal, are the main hemodynamic characteristics of obesity-related hypertension. Am J Hypertens 1990;3:164-167
Source
http://ajh.oxfordjournals.org/content/3/2/164.short





Then there is this report from NPR that says limited salt TOO much could be problematic especially at the 1500/mg per day and below

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/05/15/183883415/eating-much-less-salt-may-be-risky-in-an-over-salted-world


I have trouble with HBP due to being a fat guy. I have had a heart attack, a stint and a triple bypass. For me, personally, salt is a killer. I struggle to keep below 200 mg per day.

We as a society are SURROUNDED by salt. Immersed in it. Watch a cooking show and they dump the stuff on everything, even desserts! The Food Network is a secret source of porn for fat guys like me.

Anyway, here are my thoughts on your case. You are young but are obese. Losing weight is very important before your obesity leads to other problems: heart, diabetes, kidneys, etc. etc. etc.

If you want to stay at below 2000 MG per day, that would be great. 1500 MG per day is for those with issues according to the experts (I am not one).

Here are the areas salt hides:

Low FAT foods... Lean Cuisine, etc.
Prepared foods
Deli meats, such as turkey, salami, bologna, etc. etc.
Smoked meats
Fast food. Period.

Soups.... broths... etc. are loaded with sodium, even the lower sodium ones.

PICKLES: God, I love pickles. Pickled anything! But loaded, loaded, loaded with sodium.

Sausage meat... also heavy in sodium typically, especially the barbecue-type sausage.

Good luck on achieving your goals. Need a friend? You can add me.

Tim

mojohowitz

Ah!!! A reasoanable response. Let's see how long until we get an unsolicited and unnecessary counterclaim.

Tigg_er

Sodium: How much do you need?

The Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommend limiting sodium to less than 2,300 mg a day — or 1,500 mg if you're age 51 or older, or if you are black, or if you have high blood pressure, diabetes or chronic kidney disease.

Keep in mind that these are upper limits, and less is usually best, especially if you're sensitive to the effects of sodium. If you aren't sure how much sodium your diet should include, talk to your doctor or dietitian.

Source -- http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/NU00284

Those are numbers for normal people: 2300 mg per day. Not for obese people, or those with other issues.


Sodium and Obesity in the Pathogenesis of Hypertension
Abstract

In the present work I focus on the pathophysiological mechanisms that may explain the association between high sodium intake, obesity and high blood pressure. Despite epidemiological and etiological controversies on the link between excess sodium in the diet and elevated arterial pressure, the association could be explained on the basis of three different pathophysiological mechanisms: (1) abnormal electrolyte transport across cell membranes, a defect that alters sodium/potassium exchange and also sodium/calcium exchanges, increasing the concentration of intracellular calcium ions that heightens vessel wall tension and the smooth muscle process, (2) increased sympathetic nervous system activity and (3) altered cellular sodium concentration that induces waterlogging in the peripheral arteriolar walls. These mechanisms increase peripheral resistance and enhance arterial pressure.

Early epidemiological studies documented a strong association between obesity and hypertension; and a greater incidence of high blood pressure and diabetes was reported in persons with upper body obesity (high waist/hip ratio). Researchers have explained obesity-related hypertension accordingly with various mechanisms. Hyperinsulinemia and vascular resistance may trigger the metabolic and adrenergic changes described in obese hypertensive patients in several ways. Insulin may increase absorption of sodium in the diluting segment of the distal nephron with consequent water retention. Alternatively, insulin might alter sodium/potassium distribution thus causing increased vascular peripheral resistance. The increased sodium stimulates adrenergic activity. The water retention in obese subjects increases absolute volume that is predominantly redistributed in the cardiopulmonary area, leading to augmented venous return and cardiac output. These changes in association with a total peripheral resistance considered inappropriately normal, are the main hemodynamic characteristics of obesity-related hypertension. Am J Hypertens 1990;3:164-167
Source
http://ajh.oxfordjournals.org/content/3/2/164.short





Then there is this report from NPR that says limited salt TOO much could be problematic especially at the 1500/mg per day and below

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/05/15/183883415/eating-much-less-salt-may-be-risky-in-an-over-salted-world


I have trouble with HBP due to being a fat guy. I have had a heart attack, a stint and a triple bypass. For me, personally, salt is a killer. I struggle to keep below 200 mg per day.

We as a society are SURROUNDED by salt. Immersed in it. Watch a cooking show and they dump the stuff on everything, even desserts! The Food Network is a secret source of porn for fat guys like me.

Anyway, here are my thoughts on your case. You are young but are obese. Losing weight is very important before your obesity leads to other problems: heart, diabetes, kidneys, etc. etc. etc.

If you want to stay at below 2000 MG per day, that would be great. 1500 MG per day is for those with issues according to the experts (I am not one).

Here are the areas salt hides:

Low FAT foods... Lean Cuisine, etc.
Prepared foods
Deli meats, such as turkey, salami, bologna, etc. etc.
Smoked meats
Fast food. Period.

Soups.... broths... etc. are loaded with sodium, even the lower sodium ones.

PICKLES: God, I love pickles. Pickled anything! But loaded, loaded, loaded with sodium.

Sausage meat... also heavy in sodium typically, especially the barbecue-type sausage.

Good luck on achieving your goals. Need a friend? You can add me.

Tim

Good post Tim, Lots of backed up info. And by the way I have pretty good recipe for low-low sodium fridge dills that taste pretty good. A little spicey with some kick. Let me know if you would like it.

Cgall1

agree.

jorge_007

It's the opposite for me. I add salt to my food. I run everyday and I sweat a lot, even in the mornings and nights when it's cold. I look like I was wet with a hose. I use to avoid table salt and now I add it with pleasure. I rarely eat processed food, so I never got my sodium from there. Anyways I had poor digestion; I wasn't making enough stomach acid to properly digest food because of my low sodium intake. For the average person, I can see why they would avoid sodium. They get enough of it from processed food.