My November diet vs. Military dieting

ikearch

First off, I know what I'm doing isn't generally approved by most people on here but hear me out and I'd like to see what others think.

This month I am aiming to lose 12-13lbs through a lot of cardio (jumping rope and running) along with a calorie deficit. So far I'm at 9.5lbs lost and it's noticeable. People say I'm losing it too quickly or starving myself but I don't believe that at all. I've dieted before using foods high in fiber to remain feeling full longer (sweet potato is the first food I'll eat and keeps me full for 6+ hours).

In the military, if you need to lose weight, they will limit your calories a lot and work you out more than those who don't need to lose weight. They also lose a lot more weight than I'm aiming for.

I have 4 "fat" days this month, the last one I felt like I could do without and 1 more remaining. I started at 212lbs this month and kept my intake higher at first but I can make it through the day with 800-1200 no problem now. My daily average is 1466 cal/day with fat days and I've jumped rope for 500 minutes so far this month (very HIIT jump roping). I eat a lot of fiber and protein.

What are your thoughts on this vs. military? Do you think they're both wrong? Is just one of these wrong? Why? Both are temporary fixes, a jumping off point in my opinion. I am not losing muscle either, despite what you may think.

_Zardoz_

So from your post you're looking for support for your 'diet'. You are unlikely to get that here. My first thoughts are that both unsustainable and as soon as you start eating normally the weight will come back on. My second thoughts are that it's really not a way to live. It's your choice though but short term fixes normally come back to bite you in the ****. Why the rush to lose that much weight in one month?

ikearch

I'm not saying it's sustainable, I'm doing it as a boost to my ultimate goal. I'll keep exercising and I'm sure my caloric intake will rise to 1500-1700 once this month's over. My goal is losing approximately 20-25 more pounds by the beginning of March. I'll also resume weight lifting as a higher priority next month.
I wasn't looking for support, I wanted to see other's points about why my diet or how the military diets are good/bad or whatever. I'd like to make the point that at no time in my life have a "rebounded" after dieting like this or after a less-strict diet. Normal is what you make of it and will power and body chemistry will determine that.

pkw58

So my opinion is this. I think that if you have a goal of losing 30 pounds, and you have a plan to do it over 4 months, that is like an average of less than 2 pounds a week, which is what quite a few different medical and research authorities believe is a safe and reasonable weight loss. There are many different ways to get there.

I know a lot of us need a positive start to a new lifestyle , and losing 5-10 pounds the first month is very encouraging. The first 5 pounds are generally a lot of water weight anyway, I also think a mental transition that first month from limited to adding calories slowy the following months "resets" your mind to stop the mindless eating and work towards a more precise understanding of exactly how your body need nourishment vs food as "fun".

Military is a whole different world. The men and women in the military have to be at a higher fitness level not only for themselves, but for their fellow troop and protecting their country. I have never been in the military, but everything seems to be 'stricter" and "tougher". I am sure the process to get one in shape in the military is very time sensitive due to the need for every member of the troop to be in the best shape possible for their mission. Totally different reasons/missions for being in shape for most of us on this forum, so i don't think the two are comparable.. Just my honest opinion. Much like the diabetic or person who's excess weight has life limiting or ending consequences, medical supervision of a lower calorie diet for a period of time is not mine to judge.

sijomial

My opinion is the the key for successful fat loss (as opposed to weight loss) while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible is:
Small calorie deficit, adequate protein, a good weight training routine (plus cardio for aerobic fitness), patience.

You seem to be aiming for:
Large deficit, you will struggle to get adequate protein at such a low calorie amount (or have to exclude too much fat & carbs), no weight training, setting pointless time targets.

Honestly - I think you are making a mistake.

Not sure why you need to compare to the military - any organisation that produces M.R.E. (a.k.a. Meals Rejected by Ethiopians) shouldn't be held up as a gold standard for nutrition.

Ninkyou

Honestly - I think you are making a mistake.

I agree. Even if you're looking at this in the short term, it's unhealthy.

You may "feel full" with the increased fiber, but that doesn't mean your body is getting adequate nutrition. Your body needs more than 800-1200 calories to function properly. For men, the recommended minimum is 1800 calories. To be honest, when you're cutting down to 800 calories, it's not even about weight/fat-loss anymore. It's about malnutrition and the way the human body responds to that.

Do your health a favor and forget about this. Set a realistic and reasonable goal, lower your expectations, and nourish your body with proper nutrients. The weight will come off. Remember that you didn't put the weight on in a short amount of time, it's not going to take a short amount of time to lose it either. Don't go to the extremes because someone somewhere in the world lost 100 lbs in 100 days (or the like, you get my meaning).

I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who will advocate a VLC of 800-1200 calories for a male, let alone a female on this site. If you're REALLY gungho about doing this, it needs to be under the supervision of a doctor, and I have a hard time believing a doctor would oversee much of this.

Just my opinion.

mrsamanda86

Every military person that has to "cut weight" ends up having to cut weight EVERY TIME, trust me, I've been around military my entire life, I know this. Because it isn't sustainable. Just lose weight on a healthy deficit with a workout plan that is sustainable to you. Don't go for a quick fix, or a boost. Any diet that is designed to "boost" or kick start your weight loss, is planned like that because it's not sustainable and you will keep having to do it in order to lose the same weight you lost the first time after it creeps back on again.

msf74

Both are temporary fixes, a jumping off point in my opinion.

They're both fine then as as you are aware they are short term "boost" and if you then transition to a more moderate approach for long term success.

chrisdavey

Looks like a great way to lose a lot of muscle mass, decrease your metabolism and gain the weight back when you start eating normally.

psuLemon

My opinion is the the key for successful fat loss (as opposed to weight loss) while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible is:
Small calorie deficit, adequate protein, a good weight training routine (plus cardio for aerobic fitness), patience.

You seem to be aiming for:
Large deficit, you will struggle to get adequate protein at such a low calorie amount (or have to exclude too much fat & carbs), no weight training, setting pointless time targets.

Honestly - I think you are making a mistake.

Not sure why you need to compare to the military - any organisation that produces M.R.E. (a.k.a. Meals Rejected by Ethiopians) shouldn't be held up as a gold standard for nutrition.

This pretty much sums it up. And I suspect once the OP hit's their weight goal, they won't like the results due to muscle loss and will have to work to rebuild muscle which will take longer than if he wouldn't be as aggressive and sustain muscle from the beginning.

erickirb

Wow, with only 25lbs to lose you should not be trying to lose more than 1 lb/week at most, trying to do more will lead to a large % of the loss coming from lean muscle and water, not as much fat as you think or are trying to lose.

Lift heavy, get protein, eat at a small deficit, and give it time... Why the rush?

msf74

Unless I am reading this thread incorrectly it looks like the OP is only planning to do this for 4-6 weeks in total before transitioning to a more moderate approach.

As such he should be ok I feel.

If he attempts to do this over a longer period of time then I think the position would be different.

erickirb

Unless I am reading this thread incorrectly it looks like the OP is only planning to do this for 4-6 weeks in total before transitioning to a more moderate approach.

As such he should be ok I feel.

If he attempts to do this over a longer period of time then I think the position would be different.

I still think it is a bad idea, of the 3 ish lbs/week he is losing at least one is probably muscle, so at the very least he could expect to lose 4-6 lbs of muscle, To build the same amount back could take 3-6 months of a caloric surplus.

msf74

Unless I am reading this thread incorrectly it looks like the OP is only planning to do this for 4-6 weeks in total before transitioning to a more moderate approach.

As such he should be ok I feel.

If he attempts to do this over a longer period of time then I think the position would be different.

I still think it is a bad idea, of the 3 ish lbs/week he is losing at least one is probably muscle, so at the very least he could expect to lose 4-6 lbs of muscle, To build the same amount back could take 3-6 months of a caloric surplus.

Oh, I don't think it's an ideal approach by any means. I do think that some people however need a short term "boost" to secure long term adherence though.

Most of what he is losing will be water I believe. Where are you getting the 4-6 lbs of muscle (as opposed to lean body mass) figure from out of curiosity?

jim9097

Your caloric intake will rise to 1500-1700? Really? we are roughly the same size and I do about 2500 a day. Also not sure what your experience with the military is; but I retired after 21 years; and I have never heard of anything like that! Yes in boot camp they had the FBI or Fat Boys Incorperated, but they worked them harder, and extra session a day. But they did not restrict their calories anymore than normal.

AnotherXFitGuy

Just curious, what branch of the military, or country, are you talking about? I did 22 years in the Air Force and had many friends in all of the branches. I never had anyone or heard of anyone restrict diets, much less to the level you are talking about. At the most, they recommended and trained but your weight was your responsibility. In basic training, you had to meet a minimum weight just to be allowed to go. If anything, most troops had to eat more based on the activity level. Again, no rant, just curious.

erickirb

Unless I am reading this thread incorrectly it looks like the OP is only planning to do this for 4-6 weeks in total before transitioning to a more moderate approach.

As such he should be ok I feel.

If he attempts to do this over a longer period of time then I think the position would be different.

I still think it is a bad idea, of the 3 ish lbs/week he is losing at least one is probably muscle, so at the very least he could expect to lose 4-6 lbs of muscle, To build the same amount back could take 3-6 months of a caloric surplus.

Oh, I don't think it's an ideal approach by any means. I do think that some people however need a short term "boost" to secure long term adherence though.

Most of what he is losing will be water I believe. Where are you getting the 4-6 lbs of muscle (as opposed to lean body mass) figure from out of curiosity?

Because of the 13 lbs some will be water, and other LBM, a little fat, and some muscle. Just making an assumption could be 2 could be 8 lbs of muscle, the point there will be a lot of it lost on such a deficit with not a lot of fat stores to draw on, also assuming not enough protein, due to the lowered caloric intake.

EvgeniZyntx

I am not losing muscle either, despite what you may think.

Because you have a crystal ball?
You'll only know afterwards. If you can lose that many pounds in a month and maintain LBM you should patent it.

What's your protocol to prevent/minimize muscle loss?

Anyway, take measurments to estimate your LBM now so you can laugh at all the people here. Or not.

ikearch

Unless I am reading this thread incorrectly it looks like the OP is only planning to do this for 4-6 weeks in total before transitioning to a more moderate approach.

As such he should be ok I feel.

If he attempts to do this over a longer period of time then I think the position would be different.

You're absolutely right. This particular "chapter" of my diet/exercise regimen is only for this month. After this month my calorie intake will be at least 1600/day. I typically avg 160+ g protein and try to get 25g fiber. Those are my main goals for dieting. When I lift, I use mostly compound exercises and I hardly ever fatigue and can almost always add weight after each week of lifting.
This part is short-term. I lost most of my weight by only lifting weights and a 1600-1800 calorie diet. I am basically focusing this month on cardio alone and I see results very quickly because it was left out of my workout regimen.

msf74

Because of the 13 lbs some will be water, and other LBM, a little fat, and some muscle. Just making an assumption could be 2 could be 8 lbs of muscle, the point there will be a lot of it lost on such a deficit with not a lot of fat stores to draw on, also assuming not enough protein, due to the lowered caloric intake.

Fair play.

The problem is we can only make assumptions when dieting to the % of fat we are losing to muscle based on a number of factors such as the different energy yields from 1lb of muscle to 1lb of fat, strength levels, BF% readings etc etc. It seemed rather high to me.

I do think that doing as much as possible to preserve or minimise the loss of muscle is generally a good idea, without doubt. At the same time you have to bear in mind the context of the individual and what cluster of benefits may be achieved and if in fact preserving muscle ranks more highly than getting weight off or securing long term adherence.

So, an obese patient who has escalated risk of organ failure due to excessive weight may need an entirely different approach to a trained athlete or bodybuilder to be successful.

Horses for courses

xenofell

For what it's worth, this approach has worked for me, with no "rebound" as is preached on these forums by many members. I eat 700-800 calories a day for about a month (with a cheat day on Saturday of no more than 1600 calories, and a fast day on Sunday of 300 calories), then transition to 1400-1600 calories a day for eight weeks. Then I go back to 800 calories. The fast weight loss helped to motivate me through the first few weeks, and the fast weight loss brought on every "cycle" continues to motivate me.

This approach absolutely works if you have self-discipline and want quick results. Not so much if you're prone to binging a few weeks in. One note -- make sure to take multivitamins. I found I had an awful headache unless I took multivitamins regularly.