Advanced lifters- Squat advice

VincitQuiSeVincit

Had to switch to low bar squats due to a herniated disc in my upper back/neck- however, my form feels like CRAP and I'm down to 110 lbs from 130 lbs 1RPM. I don't feel "balanced", even with my shoes off I have a hard time driving into my heels. Any advanced lifters with advice?

FrnkLft

Hmmm, well high bar and low bar are much more different than you would think. You don't go down or sit back quite as much and so the tendency is to lean forward a bit more. Since you mention your heels, and balance, I'm guessing you feel like you're rocking forward.

It also feels very different than high bar because your back isn't as vertical. Make sure you're opening up your hips to allow your torso to lean forward, and make sure the bar is always tracking above your center of gravity (your feet). That should fix your problem. Also, while you should continue to keep your chest up, consider looking down at 45 degrees rather than forward or up. Since you're naturally going to be leaning forward a bit more, this could help you with a more natural movement (but keep that upper back solid).

So... knees out, bar over feet, head looking down at 45 deg.

Leadfoot_Lewis

Hard to tell what's going on without a video. Take some weight off the bar and work on your form - now's not the time to work on 1RMs. The bar path should be straight and should be vertical (centered) over the middle of the foot throughout the entire movement. I would bet the bar isn't centered over your mid-foot and that's why you feel unbalanced.

VincitQuiSeVincit

Hard to tell what's going on without a video. Take some weight off the bar and work on your form - now's not the time to work on 1RMs. The bar path should be straight and should be vertical (centered) over the middle of the foot throughout the entire movement. I would bet the bar isn't centered over your mid-foot and that's why you feel unbalanced.

Yea I def feel myself coming forward. Just a little background, I do CrossFit, and so I was working on 5 sets, 5 reps @ 65%, so I had 85lbs on the bar. I had to take it down to 75 for the workout, but later in the day I loaded up max just to give it a shot and it was just NOT happening. I am going to work on this bar only this afternoon for form's sake.
Thanks

VincitQuiSeVincit

Hmmm, well high bar and low bar are much more different than you would think. You don't go down or sit back quite as much and so the tendency is to lean forward a bit more. Since you mention your heels, and balance, I'm guessing you feel like you're rocking forward.

It also feels very different than high bar because your back isn't as vertical. Make sure you're opening up your hips to allow your torso to lean forward, and make sure the bar is always tracking above your center of gravity (your feet). That should fix your problem. Also, while you should continue to keep your chest up, consider looking down at 45 degrees rather than forward or up. Since you're naturally going to be leaning forward a bit more, this could help you with a more natural movement (but keep that upper back solid).

So... knees out, bar over feet, head looking down at 45 deg.

Yep... that "falling forward" feeling had me dipping my knees in to come up. It didnt feel right at all.

FrnkLft

Hmmm, well high bar and low bar are much more different than you would think. You don't go down or sit back quite as much and so the tendency is to lean forward a bit more. Since you mention your heels, and balance, I'm guessing you feel like you're rocking forward.

It also feels very different than high bar because your back isn't as vertical. Make sure you're opening up your hips to allow your torso to lean forward, and make sure the bar is always tracking above your center of gravity (your feet). That should fix your problem. Also, while you should continue to keep your chest up, consider looking down at 45 degrees rather than forward or up. Since you're naturally going to be leaning forward a bit more, this could help you with a more natural movement (but keep that upper back solid).

So... knees out, bar over feet, head looking down at 45 deg.

Yep... that "falling forward" feeling had me dipping my knees in to come up. It didnt feel right at all.

Yep, so for the record you should absolutely be warming up prior to your workouts anyhow. I do a warmup routine (DeFranco's Limber 11 fyi), BW x 10, Bar x 10, then start my sets. The warmup get the blood flowing into your muscles and tendons to prevent injury.. AAAAND it gives you a chance to get your form straight before you start putting on plates. Using my warmups this way has been great for me.

Just remember, natural arch in your lower back (don't over do it either), core like granite, bar over feet.

juliewatkin

Low bar uses more posterior chain than high bar. High bar uses more quad (front squats use most quad). The reason your knees are caving is because your body is automatically pulling them in the recruit quad for the lift. If you were a high bar squatter, you're used to more quad involvement.

I used to have serious knee cave. Work on strengthening your pc and, when you feel your knees pull, drive them out hard. Ultimately you will be able to move more weight with a low bar squat because the weight is closer to the centre of the lever. With a high bar squat, you move the bar away from the fulcrum.

A cue some people use if they feel like they are pitching forward is to curl your toes up in your shoes. That forces you back onto your heels.

The lower bar position you have, the more forward lean you will have because the weight must stay over the centre of your body for balance.

FrnkLft

FYI posterior chain is glutes, hamstrings, etc...

A good posterior chain workout is straight leg deadlifts. Do not try these until you've googled CanditoTrainingHQ and seen his video on how to do them correctly. You can just do 5x10 at low weight, maybe 50% of your current 5x5 weight. For this one... make sure you warm up!

HelloDan

Just curious more than anything, what was the reasoning behind the change of squat type?

Because of the nature of low bar, and the forward lean it requires, it's going to put more shear force on the spine, I would have thought this is the last thing you want with a herniated disc, but obviously there is more to it, so I am interested to learn why.

Chadomaniac

Honest advice

Give it a break until you healed up . What you are doing is a disaster waiting to happen .

astronomicals

Leg press or fix your form... I can visualise you bending your head back as your chest caves and it sounds like nothing but trouble. I'd switch to leg machines for a while and do zero spinal loading. Without knowing which vertebrae is damaged its hard to comment. My default is back the **** off.

Huffdogg

spinal shear force is negligible as a concern in a properly performed squat.

SideSteel

Post a video of your squat.

VincitQuiSeVincit

Just curious more than anything, what was the reasoning behind the change of squat type?

Because of the nature of low bar, and the forward lean it requires, it's going to put more shear force on the spine, I would have thought this is the last thing you want with a herniated disc, but obviously there is more to it, so I am interested to learn why.

I have a herniated cervical disc, it's at the base of my neck/upper back. Ive had physical therapy and my doctor and I have ruled out surgery. I have the go ahead to work out. The pain from squats doesn't come from the disc itself, but because it's a slight bulge, the bar rests really painfully on it.

VincitQuiSeVincit

Honest advice

Give it a break until you healed up . What you are doing is a disaster waiting to happen .

The herniated disc is an old injury, and I have the go ahead to workout and surgery was ruled out. Unfortunately, I have to live with a slight bulge in the back of my neck. It's minor, but when I load up the bar, the pressure is what causes it to hurt.