Gaining on a deficit
Shateyn
Posts: 71
I decided to bulk until I hit 140 lbs. I hit that and started my burn phase on Nov 5. I reduced my calories to between 1200-1400 a day. It is now Nov.26 and I am 146! I know it's not just water weight because my pants aren't fitting now and I can literally see extra fat. If anything I should've lost water weight from reducing carbs. My trainer says its because I wasn't eating back my exercise calories so my body went into defense mode and stored fat. So now I am eating more but everything I've read on here says that "defense mode" is a myth and it's always simple math. So is calories in, calories out, not always the case?
I definitely have not been eating more than I think because I am extremely diligent and count everything, right down to chewing gum.
Thanks
I definitely have not been eating more than I think because I am extremely diligent and count everything, right down to chewing gum.
Thanks
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Replies
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If it was calories in, calories out all the time you wouldn't have gained anything on 1200-1400 a day. Its definitely a touchy topic here on MFP, but I'm actually a believer in the so called "defensive mode" because I've experienced it. I've been using a bodymedia fit armband for the past 8 months, and surprisingly, started losing weight when I increased my calorie intake. Before using the armband I was trying to cut down to 1400-1500 a day and I would see no change, and I felt miserable all the time because my metabolism needed the extra energy to continue burning. Yet I lost weight eating 2000 a day, sometimes more, depending on how much my body really burned0
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Great! That's exactly the advice my trainer gave me too. I was just interested to see if anyone else had similar experiences.
Thanks, jonzo !0 -
there are differences between Adaptive Thermogensis and Stavation mode. Read this: could be what happened
Adaptive Thermogenisis:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1077746-starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss0 -
Didn't read all of the OP, but if you've been cutting for a long period of time, once you increase calories you will continue to lose weight. Lost about 5lbs after I increased my calories after a cut.
Check out this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWvvs19NgEk 0 -
You can't gain on a deficit. It means you're not in a deficit (or you're not gaining fat).0
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How long were you bulking for in order to reach 140lbs and how much weight did you gain?
Set your food diary to public.
Do you use a food scale?
You are not in "starvation mode" and additionally, AT is not likely to be a big issue here because you just came off of a gaining phase where you added weight. (EDITED -- not sure where I got that previous number from -- it's early) You shouldn't be under any adaptive stresses from weight loss after coming off of a lengthy period of weight gain.
Your trainer sounds like he doesn't have a clue if he's suggesting that low calorie intakes cause fat gain.0 -
Ive also had a good experience with increasing my calories
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how much were you eating on your bulk?0
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How long were you bulking for in order to reach 140lbs and how much weight did you gain?
Set your food diary to public.
Do you use a food scale?
You are not in "starvation mode" and additionally, AT is not likely to be a big issue here because you just came off of a gaining phase where you added weight. (EDITED -- not sure where I got that previous number from -- it's early) You shouldn't be under any adaptive stresses from weight loss after coming off of a lengthy period of weight gain.
Your trainer sounds like he doesn't have a clue if he's suggesting that low calorie intakes cause fat gain.
agree with this...
no way you are in starvation mode on 1200 to 1400 a day ...0 -
If you are gaining weight, then you are not at a deficit.0
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Yup. Any trainer that says your gaining weight because your not eating enough, should have his language center altered, so as to not effect other people around them.How long were you bulking for in order to reach 140lbs and how much weight did you gain?
Set your food diary to public.
Do you use a food scale?
You are not in "starvation mode" and additionally, AT is not likely to be a big issue here because you just came off of a gaining phase where you added weight. (EDITED -- not sure where I got that previous number from -- it's early) You shouldn't be under any adaptive stresses from weight loss after coming off of a lengthy period of weight gain.
Your trainer sounds like he doesn't have a clue if he's suggesting that low calorie intakes cause fat gain.
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I know it's not just water weight because my pants aren't fitting now and I can literally see extra fat.
Water weight can make your pants tight, too. How do you literally see extra fat without a biopsy before and after? Water weight can also be loose and jiggly.0 -
I agree, after bulking your body is actually primed for weight loss. It has only been three weeks, my guess is you are holding onto some water and you will start droping soon if you are indeed at a deficit. You might try a spike day with calories over your est. maintenance to see if that can get you to flush the excess water if you are that worried about the scale.0
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How long were you bulking for in order to reach 140lbs and how much weight did you gain?
Set your food diary to public.
Do you use a food scale?
You are not in "starvation mode" and additionally, AT is not likely to be a big issue here because you just came off of a gaining phase where you added weight. (EDITED -- not sure where I got that previous number from -- it's early) You shouldn't be under any adaptive stresses from weight loss after coming off of a lengthy period of weight gain.
Your trainer sounds like he doesn't have a clue if he's suggesting that low calorie intakes cause fat gain.
OP, "starvation mode" as most define it is a myth... even if it were real it wouldn't apply to you because you were in a bulking phase. Disregard the notion of starvation mode, weigh your food, and create a deficit. If you are gaining, you aren't in a deficit.0 -
If you are gaining, you aren't in a deficit.
Unless it's water.0 -
Ooops sorry, thought my diary was public already. It is now. Yes I use a scale for everything that isn't prepackaged.
So it is always scientifically impossible to gain weight on a deficit? That's what I originally thought but now this is confusing. My scale at home and at the gym both went up the same and said increased body fat (I know those aren't always accurate).
I have been exercising everyday.
My bulk was 2 months and I gained 20 lbs. I was eating 1900-2100 calories a day. Before my bulk I was really skinny-fat, very little muscle mass and I was eating around 1400 calories a day.
Thanks everyone.0 -
So, water weight it is then. That makes me feel better!0
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Water weight will increase bf readings if you are using calipers. Not sure about the other methods of measurement. Currently going through this myself, though mine is hormonally induced.0
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If you are using a BIA scale to assess BF, don't--they aren't accurate and while some may give water weight measurements, there are so many variables it is not useful except as a general guideline (and that is only so when you have a well-established baseline, which requires months at a constant level).
As others have said, water weight. Take it easy and disregard your trainer.
As for more calories = more fat loss, this is often confused by confounding variables. For instance, when I ate 2200 calories a day, I felt lethargic and non-energetic. I slumped in my chair when sitting, moved slower when walking, walked less, did not twitch, and generally tried to avoid physical exertion. At 2700 calories, I sit up straight, stand and walk more, and I do everything with zest and gusto. The cumulative effect is that one may actual end up with a greater deficit with more calories IF (and only IF) it increases their activity and other weight-changing factors GREATER than the difference in calories consumed. Thus, with deficits, it is not the absolute numbers of calories in, but the difference in calories in versus calories out.0 -
My trainer says its because I wasn't eating back my exercise calories so my body went into defense mode and stored fat. S
Impossible. The only thing "too few" calories will do is guarantee weight loss.
The answer lies elsewhere.0 -
At 1200-1400 you are still at a deficit--even if you have slowed your metabolism. those are just survival calories. no way you are gaining fat on that. my guess, water and muscle weight.0
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My bulk was 2 months and I gained 20 lbs. I was eating 1900-2100 calories a day. Before my bulk I was really skinny-fat, very little muscle mass and I was eating around 1400 calories a day.
It seems odd that you could gain 20 pounds in two months eating 1900-2100 calories a day at 120 pounds. that sounds like maintenance...unless you are very short.0 -
My bulk was 2 months and I gained 20 lbs. I was eating 1900-2100 calories a day. Before my bulk I was really skinny-fat, very little muscle mass and I was eating around 1400 calories a day.
It seems odd that you could gain 20 pounds in two months eating 1900-2100 calories a day at 120 pounds. that sounds like maintenance...unless you are very short.
I am 5'6" 125 lbs and 1550 is maintenance for me.0 -
My bulk was 2 months and I gained 20 lbs. I was eating 1900-2100 calories a day. Before my bulk I was really skinny-fat, very little muscle mass and I was eating around 1400 calories a day.
It seems odd that you could gain 20 pounds in two months eating 1900-2100 calories a day at 120 pounds. that sounds like maintenance...unless you are very short.
20 pounds in 2 months is going to 99.9% fat gain. It would also require a daily caloric surplus of 1200 calories, meaning a TDEE of 800 calories IF the intake was actually 2000 calories/day.
No way the TDEE was 800, so either the numbers given are all wrong, or the poster in question ate a crap load more than they realize/admit.0 -
My bulk was 2 months and I gained 20 lbs. I was eating 1900-2100 calories a day. Before my bulk I was really skinny-fat, very little muscle mass and I was eating around 1400 calories a day.
It seems odd that you could gain 20 pounds in two months eating 1900-2100 calories a day at 120 pounds. that sounds like maintenance...unless you are very short.
I am 125 lbs and 1500 is maintenance for me.
height is a huge factor.0 -
My bulk was 2 months and I gained 20 lbs. I was eating 1900-2100 calories a day. Before my bulk I was really skinny-fat, very little muscle mass and I was eating around 1400 calories a day.
It seems odd that you could gain 20 pounds in two months eating 1900-2100 calories a day at 120 pounds. that sounds like maintenance...unless you are very short.
I am 125 lbs and 1500 is maintenance for me.
height is a huge factor.
5'6"0 -
My bulk was 2 months and I gained 20 lbs. I was eating 1900-2100 calories a day. Before my bulk I was really skinny-fat, very little muscle mass and I was eating around 1400 calories a day.
It seems odd that you could gain 20 pounds in two months eating 1900-2100 calories a day at 120 pounds. that sounds like maintenance...unless you are very short.
I am 125 lbs and 1500 is maintenance for me.
height is a huge factor.
5'6"
individual bodies vary so much, i guess. my maintenance is extremely different, and I am about your height.0 -
My bulk was 2 months and I gained 20 lbs. I was eating 1900-2100 calories a day. Before my bulk I was really skinny-fat, very little muscle mass and I was eating around 1400 calories a day.
It seems odd that you could gain 20 pounds in two months eating 1900-2100 calories a day at 120 pounds. that sounds like maintenance...unless you are very short.
20 pounds in 2 months is going to 99.9% fat gain. It would also require a daily caloric surplus of 1200 calories, meaning a TDEE of 800 calories IF the intake was actually 2000 calories/day.
No way the TDEE was 800, so either the numbers given are all wrong, or the poster in question ate a crap load more than they realize/admit.
I disagree with the 99.9%. If she worked hard, she could have put on 2 lbs muscle. But definitely a dirty bulk. OP, get a new trainer.0 -
Ooops sorry, thought my diary was public already. It is now. Yes I use a scale for everything that isn't prepackaged.
This is off topic, but weigh the prepackaged stuff too. More often than not its slightly more than the serving on the bag. Half the time I weigh my pop its 366mL or more, not 355. That slice of bread or hamburger bun is more or less than predicted. Its little but those things add up...0 -
I disagree with the 99.9%. If she worked hard, she could have put on 2 lbs muscle. But definitely a dirty bulk. OP, get a new trainer.
Even that would still be 90% - still virtually all fat.
But the larger point is that the numbers don't add up - the poster in question is clearly eating far more than they think they're eating.0
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