Runners- do you eat DURING a 1/2 marathon?
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I ate one of the gels they handed about about half way through. Plus some Gatorade and water. I did not take the gels/drink Gatorade during my training and felt fine.0
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Race how you train. Change nothing.
She hasn't trained specifically for a 1/2 and has done 10 miles at the most.
OP, next training run, try an energy gel to make sure it won't upset your stomach. Trust me, bonking during a race is nasty. I would say bring SOMETHING or at the very least, drink some Gatorade at an aid station along the way.
That's enough. You don't have to run 13.1 to train. 10 is sufficient. 10 is like 13,1, just a tad more. You shouldn't do anything different. Your body will freak out. Just stay the same. if you don't do gels, during a race is NOT the time to "try" one. Some people get upset stomachs from them.
I don't believe in needing gels and stuff from a half. Just run. Your body wont stop working suddenly. It's in your mind.
I'm sorry, but that is completely untrue. Your body CAN run out of glycogen stores during a long period of exertion. Good God.
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'"When an athlete hits the wall, [he or she is] essentially running out of carbohydrates in the leg muscles and in the liver," Rapoport says. "So when you bring the carbohydrate fuel tank to empty, the body is forced then to metabolize fat rather than carbohydrates."
Fat is a much less efficient fuel than carbohydrate. It takes more oxygen to burn. So an athlete needs to pump more oxygen to the muscles to keep going. As a result, the athlete needs to slow down dramatically.'
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130731888
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I do agree that having run 10 miles is enough for her to run the race, but not to know if she has the glycogen stores to run 13.1 without replenishment.
ETA: I have bonked during 5 milers while I was doing a low carb stint to drop some extra weight.0 -
I usually throw a few Gu packets in my pocket and wash one down with water or a sports drink at a hydration stop 7-8 miles in, and again toward the end, maybe miles 10 or 11.0
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I've used energy chews during halfs.0
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no, definitely not. i don't even stop for water. if you've trained up to 10 miles with no additional fuel, why would you need for an additional 3.1? you'll be fine.0
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.. Ive run 12 miles routinely with nothing, not even water, no issue. Ran my last 1/2 in 1:50, no water, gels or nothing. I don't know. It's an academic argument, really. I say that, because people do it constantly all the time. So, it's not really an issue for people that do it. It might be an issue if you can't do it. But, then I would ask if you've tried. The body is freaking amazing. You don't need glycogen stores. You can run on fat. if you don't have fat, then I don't know what happens. But, people do it all the time.
they used to not have gels. Those are a pretty recent thing. What did they do in the 1850's, or the 1970's?
LOL. so i was going to quote this, and say i completely agree and that so much is due to a mental block, in my opinion, without realizing it was YOU who wrote this! lol. we have the same thoughts handsome :flowerforyou: :smooched:0 -
Of course! Anything over 8 miles, you are going to need to start replenishing glycogen. Take a couple of GUs. I think I did one every 40 minutes while racing.
you're wrong. i've run 18 miles on multiple occasions without stopping for anything. like Jerry and probably others have said, the human body is amazing and capable of quite a lot. and if the OP can run 10 miles, without stopping for anything (as she stated), she'll be absolutely fine running 13.1 miles without worrying about what/when/how/where to "refuel". why complicate it? simple is ALWAYS best.0 -
.. Ive run 12 miles routinely with nothing, not even water, no issue. Ran my last 1/2 in 1:50, no water, gels or nothing. I don't know. It's an academic argument, really. I say that, because people do it constantly all the time. So, it's not really an issue for people that do it. It might be an issue if you can't do it. But, then I would ask if you've tried. The body is freaking amazing. You don't need glycogen stores. You can run on fat. if you don't have fat, then I don't know what happens. But, people do it all the time.
they used to not have gels. Those are a pretty recent thing. What did they do in the 1850's, or the 1970's?
LOL. so i was going to quote this, and say i completely agree and that so much is due to a mental block, in my opinion, without realizing it was YOU who wrote this! lol. we have the same thoughts handsome :flowerforyou: :smooched:
What did they do? They ate other things. Yes, energy gels are new. But eating during long races is not new. And if you read my post, you would see that yes, you can run on fat alone. But it is much less efficient and causes you to have to slow waaaay down when you deplete your carbohydrate stores. But remember, you are also burning fat while running on carb stores. It is the ratios that change as the body cycles through its stores.
But feel free to post something factually contrary.
ETA: Flat coke has been popular for years as an energy source during long efforts. It is still offered during ironmans, because it's also great for settling stomachs. Peanut butter sandwiches, bananas. Nuts. Anything that is easily digestible can be used for sustained efforts.0 -
.. Ive run 12 miles routinely with nothing, not even water, no issue. Ran my last 1/2 in 1:50, no water, gels or nothing. I don't know. It's an academic argument, really. I say that, because people do it constantly all the time. So, it's not really an issue for people that do it. It might be an issue if you can't do it. But, then I would ask if you've tried. The body is freaking amazing. You don't need glycogen stores. You can run on fat. if you don't have fat, then I don't know what happens. But, people do it all the time.
they used to not have gels. Those are a pretty recent thing. What did they do in the 1850's, or the 1970's?
You were doing so well until you got the the bold part, which is just not true. Hitting the wall in the marathon is because the body's stores of glycogen are nearly depleted. When it gets to a certain level, the body starts reserving what is left for essential brain function. So, it's impossible to have completely depleted the glycogen store making your statement that you can run [only] on fat incorrect. Long runs train the body to use a higher percentage of fat than glycogen but we never go to 100% fat. If we did, then weight loss would be a breeze!0 -
Of course! Anything over 8 miles, you are going to need to start replenishing glycogen. Take a couple of GUs. I think I did one every 40 minutes while racing.
you're wrong. i've run 18 miles on multiple occasions without stopping for anything. like Jerry and probably others have said, the human body is amazing and capable of quite a lot. and if the OP can run 10 miles, without stopping for anything (as she stated), she'll be absolutely fine running 13.1 miles without worrying about what/when/how/where to "refuel". why complicate it? simple is ALWAYS best.
Not even water? Gatorade? 18 miles? Okay....0 -
.. Ive run 12 miles routinely with nothing, not even water, no issue. Ran my last 1/2 in 1:50, no water, gels or nothing. I don't know. It's an academic argument, really. I say that, because people do it constantly all the time. So, it's not really an issue for people that do it. It might be an issue if you can't do it. But, then I would ask if you've tried. The body is freaking amazing. You don't need glycogen stores. You can run on fat. if you don't have fat, then I don't know what happens. But, people do it all the time.
they used to not have gels. Those are a pretty recent thing. What did they do in the 1850's, or the 1970's?
You were doing so well until you got the the bold part, which is just not true. Hitting the wall in the marathon is because the body's stores of glycogen are nearly depleted. When it gets to a certain level, the body starts reserving what is left for essential brain function. So, it's impossible to have completely depleted the glycogen store making your statement that you can run [only] on fat incorrect. Long runs train the body to use a higher percentage of fat than glycogen but we never go to 100% fat. If we did, then weight loss would be a breeze!
actually: "our bodies can only store about 2,000 calories of carbohydrate (glycogen) in our muscles, so if you burn roughly 100 calories an hour, you’ll run out of fuel or “hit the wall” at about mile 20. However, while glycogen is the most readily accessible form of fuel, our bodies can also turn fat into fuel if necessary ... we have an almost unlimited supply of fat stores – “even the thinnest runners have enough body fat to get them through 600 miles” - the trick is to get your body to rely less on glycogen and more on fat stores."
source: http://trueslant.com/runningshorts/2010/04/19/carbohydrate-depleted-trainin/0 -
Of course! Anything over 8 miles, you are going to need to start replenishing glycogen. Take a couple of GUs. I think I did one every 40 minutes while racing.
you're wrong. i've run 18 miles on multiple occasions without stopping for anything. like Jerry and probably others have said, the human body is amazing and capable of quite a lot. and if the OP can run 10 miles, without stopping for anything (as she stated), she'll be absolutely fine running 13.1 miles without worrying about what/when/how/where to "refuel". why complicate it? simple is ALWAYS best.
Not even water? Gatorade? 18 miles? Okay....
that is correct. the human body is an extremely capable and amazing machine.0 -
I'm considering running my 1/2 half in April of next year (longest mileage I have done has been 7 miles on a long run) and am interested to see what the responses are.
I will tell you that I did feel dizzy at one 5k race but I had eaten about 3 hours prior to the race and drank at every water station (which was 1 or 2) and was running on injury (I don't advocate to run on a calf injury). After the race and once I was able to not see stars anymore, I did eat and it seemed to help. As i said, it was the one and only time, after that I learned I had to start eating 2 hours before the race and drink water before the race as well (about a bottle) and drink at the water stations.0 -
Of course! Anything over 8 miles, you are going to need to start replenishing glycogen. Take a couple of GUs. I think I did one every 40 minutes while racing.
you're wrong. i've run 18 miles on multiple occasions without stopping for anything. like Jerry and probably others have said, the human body is amazing and capable of quite a lot. and if the OP can run 10 miles, without stopping for anything (as she stated), she'll be absolutely fine running 13.1 miles without worrying about what/when/how/where to "refuel". why complicate it? simple is ALWAYS best.
Not even water? Gatorade? 18 miles? Okay....
that is correct. the human body is an extremely capable and amazing machine.
I would suggest that some people are more economical runners (if not more genetically gifted) than others and that the OP goes with what works best for her. Go with what you know and experiment in training.
Race day is not the time to try something new... ever.0 -
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Of course! Anything over 8 miles, you are going to need to start replenishing glycogen. Take a couple of GUs. I think I did one every 40 minutes while racing.
you're wrong. i've run 18 miles on multiple occasions without stopping for anything. like Jerry and probably others have said, the human body is amazing and capable of quite a lot. and if the OP can run 10 miles, without stopping for anything (as she stated), she'll be absolutely fine running 13.1 miles without worrying about what/when/how/where to "refuel". why complicate it? simple is ALWAYS best.
Not even water? Gatorade? 18 miles? Okay....
that is correct. the human body is an extremely capable and amazing machine.
I would suggest that some people are more economical runners (if not more genetically gifted) than others and that the OP goes with what works best for her. Go with what you know and experiment in training.
Race day is not the time to try something new... ever.
re: the bolded sentence - exactly. did you read the OP? it states that she has NOT been using re-fueling techniques during her 10 milers.0 -
Of course! Anything over 8 miles, you are going to need to start replenishing glycogen. Take a couple of GUs. I think I did one every 40 minutes while racing.
you're wrong. i've run 18 miles on multiple occasions without stopping for anything. like Jerry and probably others have said, the human body is amazing and capable of quite a lot. and if the OP can run 10 miles, without stopping for anything (as she stated), she'll be absolutely fine running 13.1 miles without worrying about what/when/how/where to "refuel". why complicate it? simple is ALWAYS best.
Not even water? Gatorade? 18 miles? Okay....
that is correct. the human body is an extremely capable and amazing machine.
While you're correct that the body is capable of it the question that comes to mind is whether or not it's advisable.
Old school training was deprivation, drinking even water was frowned upon. But one of the great things about training is that it evolves, just look at marathon record times. In the early part of the 20th century champion marathon runners were coming in at 2:55 (a time that I would give my left nut for.....j/k), last year Wilson Kipsang ran a 2:03:23 in Berlin. That's a huge difference.
In the old days you didn't have runners dropping dead from hyponatremia but clearly advances in nutrition, hydration and training have been made.0 -
I don't buy it. I don't think a 1/2 marathon will cause a human being to complete deplete their glygogen stores. I think this is more academic since people do it all the time. I have done it, others have done it. i don't see why it's being argued. We do it. So, no, you don't need gels and water for a 13.1 mile run.
In a marathon, yes, the "wall" is well-known. I have never studied what that is, but assume it's where you run out of energy. But, people finish marathon all around the world all the time. So, I'm not sure where this "wall" lies. While I don't think the wall is imaginary, I also think it is overcome by the mind.
I've studied it and I have experienced it. It is when the body's glycogen stores reach a low enough level that the body hoards what is left to use for essential brain function. Yes, we can use fat for energy, but it is not as easily converted as glycogen, hence the body wanting to go for the low hanging fruit first. As I stated in my earlier post, long run training is designed to teach the body to rely less on glycogen and use more fat. You are always using a combination of the two, so you are working on ratios.
Running a marathon is tricky business. The idea is to run just fast enough that you are burning an optimal amount of glycogen, but not so fast that you use up your available stores before you reach the finish line. The faster you run, the higher the ratio of glycogen to fat being used.
So, yes it is overcome by the mind, but not in the sense you you suggest. It's overcome by knowing what your capabilities are and running right at the edge of them on race day.0 -
you're wrong. i've run 18 miles on multiple occasions without stopping for anything. like Jerry and probably others have said, the human body is amazing and capable of quite a lot. and if the OP can run 10 miles, without stopping for anything (as she stated), she'll be absolutely fine running 13.1 miles without worrying about what/when/how/where to "refuel". why complicate it? simple is ALWAYS best.
Not even water? Gatorade? 18 miles? Okay....
that is correct. the human body is an extremely capable and amazing machine.
While you're correct that the body is capable of it the question that comes to mind is whether or not it's advisable.
Old school training was deprivation, drinking even water was frowned upon. But one of the great things about training is that it evolves, just look at marathon record times. In the early part of the 20th century champion marathon runners were coming in at 2:55 (a time that I would give my left nut for.....j/k), last year Wilson Kipsang ran a 2:03:23 in Berlin. That's a huge difference.
In the old days you didn't have runners dropping dead from hyponatremia but clearly advances in nutrition, hydration and training have been made.
I knew a couple of old school deprivation runners. I guess I just met a couple of more. Wonders never cease! LOL
BTW - to the deprivation runners: I never 'stop' when I hydrate or eat something. It's all done on the fly. You might want to try it some time. Your body (and running times) will thank you for it!
ETA: because: Derp!0 -
I'll either eat the fruit punch squares CLIF makes, or the jelly belly sports but you can totally make it without.
i do it just cause I have reactive hypoglycemia and carry them just in case I feel weird.0 -
I knew a couple of old school deprivation runners. I guess I just met a couple of more. Wonders never cease! LOL
BTW - to the deprivation runners: I never 'stop' when I hydrate or eat something. It's all done on the fly. You might want to try it some time. Your body (and running times) will thank you for it!
ETA: because: Derp!
I deprivation train too. I've done 22 milers with no food or fuel. One point to make though, I would never attempt this if it's going to be 70 or above. I'll take water in that case. But with cooler temperatures, the only time I'll ever take fuel or fluids is if I am testing for race day.
ETA: to respond to the BTW: I don't always eat and drink on the run, but when I do I don't stop or slow down.
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I knew a couple of old school deprivation runners. I guess I just met a couple of more. Wonders never cease! LOL
BTW - to the deprivation runners: I never 'stop' when I hydrate or eat something. It's all done on the fly. You might want to try it some time. Your body (and running times) will thank you for it!
ETA: because: Derp!
I deprivation train too. I've done 22 milers with no food or fuel. One point to make though, I would never attempt this if it's going to be 70 or above. I'll take water in that case. But with cooler temperatures, the only time I'll ever take fuel or fluids is if I am testing for race day.
Actually, I can see doing it without fuel, if you are hoping to train your body to rely less on glycogen stores. But to do it without water doesn't make any sense that I can tell, except to stress your body unnecessarily.0 -
I knew a couple of old school deprivation runners. I guess I just met a couple of more. Wonders never cease! LOL
BTW - to the deprivation runners: I never 'stop' when I hydrate or eat something. It's all done on the fly. You might want to try it some time. Your body (and running times) will thank you for it!
ETA: because: Derp!
I deprivation train too. I've done 22 milers with no food or fuel. One point to make though, I would never attempt this if it's going to be 70 or above. I'll take water in that case. But with cooler temperatures, the only time I'll ever take fuel or fluids is if I am testing for race day.
Actually, I can see doing it without fuel, if you are hoping to train your body to rely less on glycogen stores. But to do it without water doesn't make any sense that I can tell, except to stress your body unnecessarily.
My suggested reading is "Waterlogged" by Tim Noakes. He explains how the human body is designed to dehydrate itself during workbouts and then replenish those missing fluids when finished, usually at meal time. Studies show that the fastest runners in races are the most dehydrated. There is no link between dehydration and degradation in performance. I have lost as much as 7% of my total body weight in fluids with no ill effect.0 -
I knew a couple of old school deprivation runners. I guess I just met a couple of more. Wonders never cease! LOL
BTW - to the deprivation runners: I never 'stop' when I hydrate or eat something. It's all done on the fly. You might want to try it some time. Your body (and running times) will thank you for it!
ETA: because: Derp!
I deprivation train too. I've done 22 milers with no food or fuel. One point to make though, I would never attempt this if it's going to be 70 or above. I'll take water in that case. But with cooler temperatures, the only time I'll ever take fuel or fluids is if I am testing for race day.
ETA: to respond to the BTW: I don't always eat and drink on the run, but when I do I don't stop or slow down.
Gawd, have you ever inhaled the wrong way during a race? :blushing: I still think I would have been 2 minutes faster if I only hadn't done that and had to choke gag and cough for 10 minutes. Talk about feeling oxygen deprived!0 -
I knew a couple of old school deprivation runners. I guess I just met a couple of more. Wonders never cease! LOL
BTW - to the deprivation runners: I never 'stop' when I hydrate or eat something. It's all done on the fly. You might want to try it some time. Your body (and running times) will thank you for it!
ETA: because: Derp!
I deprivation train too. I've done 22 milers with no food or fuel. One point to make though, I would never attempt this if it's going to be 70 or above. I'll take water in that case. But with cooler temperatures, the only time I'll ever take fuel or fluids is if I am testing for race day.
Actually, I can see doing it without fuel, if you are hoping to train your body to rely less on glycogen stores. But to do it without water doesn't make any sense that I can tell, except to stress your body unnecessarily.
My suggested reading is "Waterlogged" by Tim Noakes. He explains how the human body is designed to dehydrate itself during workbouts and then replenish those missing fluids when finished, usually at meal time. Studies show that the fastest runners in races are the most dehydrated. There is no link between dehydration and degradation in performance. I have lost as much as 7% of my total body weight in fluids with no ill effect.
That does sound interesting. How do you stand the thirst though?0 -
I knew a couple of old school deprivation runners. I guess I just met a couple of more. Wonders never cease! LOL
BTW - to the deprivation runners: I never 'stop' when I hydrate or eat something. It's all done on the fly. You might want to try it some time. Your body (and running times) will thank you for it!
ETA: because: Derp!
I deprivation train too. I've done 22 milers with no food or fuel. One point to make though, I would never attempt this if it's going to be 70 or above. I'll take water in that case. But with cooler temperatures, the only time I'll ever take fuel or fluids is if I am testing for race day.
Actually, I can see doing it without fuel, if you are hoping to train your body to rely less on glycogen stores. But to do it without water doesn't make any sense that I can tell, except to stress your body unnecessarily.
running 13.1 miles without fueling up with anything, including water, does not stress the body. you stated previously that running anything above 8 miles would require the body to refuel. that is false information. my body most definitely feels zero stress when i complete a 10+ miler without stopping for a water break. perhaps you should push yourself more, and test your abilities.0 -
I knew a couple of old school deprivation runners. I guess I just met a couple of more. Wonders never cease! LOL
BTW - to the deprivation runners: I never 'stop' when I hydrate or eat something. It's all done on the fly. You might want to try it some time. Your body (and running times) will thank you for it!
ETA: because: Derp!
I deprivation train too. I've done 22 milers with no food or fuel. One point to make though, I would never attempt this if it's going to be 70 or above. I'll take water in that case. But with cooler temperatures, the only time I'll ever take fuel or fluids is if I am testing for race day.
Actually, I can see doing it without fuel, if you are hoping to train your body to rely less on glycogen stores. But to do it without water doesn't make any sense that I can tell, except to stress your body unnecessarily.
My suggested reading is "Waterlogged" by Tim Noakes. He explains how the human body is designed to dehydrate itself during workbouts and then replenish those missing fluids when finished, usually at meal time. Studies show that the fastest runners in races are the most dehydrated. There is no link between dehydration and degradation in performance. I have lost as much as 7% of my total body weight in fluids with no ill effect.
i've heard Noakes' name, and the bit about dehydration. i was just reading something that stated more middle to back of the pack runners tend to over-hydrate, and those who are faster tend side more toward dehydration (like you stated).0 -
I knew a couple of old school deprivation runners. I guess I just met a couple of more. Wonders never cease! LOL
BTW - to the deprivation runners: I never 'stop' when I hydrate or eat something. It's all done on the fly. You might want to try it some time. Your body (and running times) will thank you for it!
ETA: because: Derp!
I deprivation train too. I've done 22 milers with no food or fuel. One point to make though, I would never attempt this if it's going to be 70 or above. I'll take water in that case. But with cooler temperatures, the only time I'll ever take fuel or fluids is if I am testing for race day.
Actually, I can see doing it without fuel, if you are hoping to train your body to rely less on glycogen stores. But to do it without water doesn't make any sense that I can tell, except to stress your body unnecessarily.
running 13.1 miles without fueling up with anything, including water, does not stress the body. you stated previously that running anything above 8 miles would require the body to refuel. that is false information. my body most definitely feels zero stress when i complete a 10+ miler without stopping for a water break. perhaps you should push yourself more, and test your abilities.
Thanks, but I am a veteran runner, and know my capabilities. I run with a heart rate monitor, and keep myself comfortable. Getting too dehydrated gets my HR elevated, and my time suffers. I am also prone to bonking, so I always carry gels. Really, it's so easy to keep yourself hydrated and fueled, I honestly don't feel the need to do deprivation training.
8 miles to first gel is pretty standard advice (and you see it echoed here in this thread), so I don't get where you feel you can call me on giving bad advice. Why don't you start dogging some of the other posters in this thread who posted the same advice I did? :ohwell:
Out 'cause the derp!
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