Supporting MFP friends on very low calorie diets
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I question them on it. Because occassionally there's a good reason (gastric bypass would fall into that category).
If there's no good reason, and they aren't open to seeing some logic, I remove them from my friends list, because I'm not going to suppose someone who is pro-ana
There are a few friends that explained their situation and I am good with that and will support them. My experience is that if you flag their behavior, explain to them why it is a bad idea and they *still* do it (the in one ear and out the other effect), then I am at a point where I am not sure what do next. I cannot internally support that type of destructive behavior.
Thank you all for the feedback so far. I am weighing in on the opinions I get before deciding my next move.
Sounds like your thought process on this is sound. I think the "what do next" part is, you have to take them off your FL. Perhaps a PM explaining that if at some point down the road they want to try a more reasonable approach (such as a minimum of X calories), you'll add them and do what you can to support them, but you just can't watch them try to survive on Y calories. What values you use for X and Y are probably debatable.
Good luck. It's a tough topic.0 -
People who use the TDEE method typically log their cardio exercise as 1 calorie because they want to keep track of the activity but the calorie burn is already included in their total daily energy expenditure.I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.
About the one calorie workout; one of my friends did that and I had to reply "is x amount of minutes of exercise really 1 calorie?" Of course, I got no response back on that, just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.
Thanks to everyone for that information! I didn't think about that scenario and I stand corrected!
It was odd that this person did not correct me when I asked; so I am not sure if she was using the TDEE method or not. But again, thank you for taking the time to answer!0 -
Not sure how accurate the burned calories estimates are. Some look way too high. I see people recording pretty light exercise like slow walking pace for 30 minutes, with a burn estimate of 1000 cal. Looks really suspicious. So, when they come in under their total calorie target, with those bizarre burn estimates, I'm not sure what to think.0
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I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.
About the one calorie workout; one of my friends did that and I had to reply "is x amount of minutes of exercise really 1 calorie?" Of course, I got no response back on that, just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.
when you are using the TDEE method your exercise is already factored into your cal goals so you cannot put the real amount of cals u burned b/c it would raise your daily allowance for the day and give you too high net cals for weight loss. Ignore that, that's happening by ppl who know what they are doing.
for the under cals ppl. if you have many ppl eating low net cals it can be what happened to me when I first started, one pro ana person led to another to another before i knew it I had decidedly anorexic girls on my list cheeringone another on and being "supportive" in their own way of their unhealthy goals. this may have happened to you. I'd raise the question with anyone willing to reply. Also looking at their friends list should reveal if they are flocking together all names like "skinny" ribs showing in pics ultra thin girls, "ana" in the usernames over and over this might be what's going on. It took a long time to delete all those girls but I had too b/c it was too emotional reading their feeds. I saw a girl die from low cals in my youth and i can't see that kind of talk without it affecting me.0 -
Not sure how accurate the burned calories estimates are. Some look way too high. I see people recording pretty light exercise like slow walking pace for 30 minutes, with a burn estimate of 1000 cal. Looks really suspicious. So, when they come in under their total calorie target, with those bizarre burn estimates, I'm not sure what to think.
Yes, I kind of have the same issues.
Is 60 minutes of heavy weight lifting the 600 calories I tend to put in for exercise? I don't own a HRM and it is my understanding from the MFP gurus that a HRM is not an accurate method of tracking exercise calories for weight lifting. So, in this instance, I will eat about 75% of those exercise calories back to allow some wiggle room since I am really just taking a WAG at the exercise expenditures.
Once I get closer to my weight goal, I might need to revisit this again if my weight loss stalls.0 -
I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.
About the one calorie workout; one of my friends did that and I had to reply "is x amount of minutes of exercise really 1 calorie?" Of course, I got no response back on that, just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.
when you are using the TDEE method your exercise is already factored into your cal goals so you cannot put the real amount of cals u burned b/c it would raise your daily allowance for the day and give you too high net cals for weight loss. Ignore that, that's happening by ppl who know what they are doing.
for the under cals ppl. if you have many ppl eating low net cals it can be what happened to me when I first started, one pro ana person led to another to another before i knew it I had decidedly anorexic girls on my list cheeringone another on and being "supportive" in their own way of their unhealthy goals. this may have happened to you. I'd raise the question with anyone willing to reply. Also looking at their friends list should reveal if they are flocking together all names like "skinny" ribs showing in pics ultra thin girls, "ana" in the usernames over and over this might be what's going on. It took a long time to delete all those girls but I had too b/c it was too emotional reading their feeds. I saw a girl die from low cals in my youth and i can't see that kind of talk without it affecting me.
Very valid concern if you see someone doing something harmful to themselves. Have you ever reported or reached out to MFP "staff" whoever they are and let them know about the dangerous behaviour? I'd be interested to know if anyone has done this before, and if there is indeed any intervention that occurs.0 -
Once I get closer to my weight goal, I might need to revisit this again if my weight loss stalls.
That's the important part of this whole thing (IMHO). I always advise that someone uses a method...in your case, calling 60 minutes of lifting 600 calories...and do it consistently and accurately for X weeks...then evaluate progress. If it's where you want it, carry on...and if not (in either direction), adjust accordingly. (Honestly, your 60 minutes of lifting probably isn't that much of a burn, but if other factors in your approach mitigate the difference, then it really doesn't matter that you don't have the "right" number.)0 -
I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.
About the one calorie workout; one of my friends did that and I had to reply "is x amount of minutes of exercise really 1 calorie?" Of course, I got no response back on that, just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.
when you are using the TDEE method your exercise is already factored into your cal goals so you cannot put the real amount of cals u burned b/c it would raise your daily allowance for the day and give you too high net cals for weight loss. Ignore that, that's happening by ppl who know what they are doing.
for the under cals ppl. if you have many ppl eating low net cals it can be what happened to me when I first started, one pro ana person led to another to another before i knew it I had decidedly anorexic girls on my list cheeringone another on and being "supportive" in their own way of their unhealthy goals. this may have happened to you. I'd raise the question with anyone willing to reply. Also looking at their friends list should reveal if they are flocking together all names like "skinny" ribs showing in pics ultra thin girls, "ana" in the usernames over and over this might be what's going on. It took a long time to delete all those girls but I had too b/c it was too emotional reading their feeds. I saw a girl die from low cals in my youth and i can't see that kind of talk without it affecting me.
Very valid concern if you see someone doing something harmful to themselves. Have you ever reported or reached out to MFP "staff" whoever they are and let them know about the dangerous behaviour? I'd be interested to know if anyone has done this before, and if there is indeed any intervention that occurs.
I thought of reporting the one MFP "friend" doing a 600 goal calorie a day diet. Poking around the help section, there did not seem to be any instance of reporting anyone conscientiously doing a VLCD diet.
In the end, I decided to go with both "we are all adults here" and "some people will only learn only when the time is right and nothing will change their mind until that time". I suppose this is a pessimistic view, but I really believe people will keep on doing what they are doing until they decide themselves to stop the insanity (thinking of the Albert Einstein quote: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.").0 -
Once I get closer to my weight goal, I might need to revisit this again if my weight loss stalls.
That's the important part of this whole thing (IMHO). I always advise that someone uses a method...in your case, calling 60 minutes of lifting 600 calories...and do it consistently and accurately for X weeks...then evaluate progress. If it's where you want it, carry on...and if not (in either direction), adjust accordingly. (Honestly, your 60 minutes of lifting probably isn't that much of a burn, but if other factors in your approach mitigate the difference, then it really doesn't matter that you don't have the "right" number.)
Yes! In total agreement !
And not to go too far off tangent, the same can be said for measuring/recording food. And I not talking about the WAGs on the calories on eating restaurant food (an important part of the food equation for sure), but the more subtle examples like taking the calorie information on a slice of bread from the supermarket as factual when in reality there probably a 20% error on calories per slice. If I were to stall, both exercise expenditures and food intake will need to be re-examined.
All fascinating stuff when you think about it!0 -
my advice would be to let them know how you feel about it and say you're not going to be supportive of them over-exercising and undereating. Then the ball's in their court. If they delete you (which they probably will if they don't accept that they have a problem), then it's not your problem any more. If they accept that what they're doing is wrong, then you're in a position to possibly influence them.0
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I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.
About the one calorie workout; one of my friends did that and I had to reply "is x amount of minutes of exercise really 1 calorie?" Of course, I got no response back on that, just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.
when you are using the TDEE method your exercise is already factored into your cal goals so you cannot put the real amount of cals u burned b/c it would raise your daily allowance for the day and give you too high net cals for weight loss. Ignore that, that's happening by ppl who know what they are doing.
^^^^ this
I log 1 calorie exercise burns (currently, didn't use to) because it encourages me to stay on track with my scheduled workouts. My exercise is already accounted for in my calorie goal. A lot of people on my friend's list do this as well.0 -
Well I am in ED recovery, so I just delete anyone who doesn't regularly eat 1200 calories plus per day. My profile is pretty open about not supporting anyone who is pro-ana or pro-mia, so it should not come as a surprise to anyone. I like to support others but when it comes right down to it, I am here for my own health first. There are plenty of MFP'ers with goals and activities similar to mine and sometimes it just takes a little fine tuning to get to a group of people with whom you click. Same as in real life!
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my advice would be to let them know how you feel about it and say you're not going to be supportive of them over-exercising and undereating. Then the ball's in their court. If they delete you (which they probably will if they don't accept that they have a problem), then it's not your problem any more. If they accept that what they're doing is wrong, then you're in a position to possibly influence them.
Very wise advice and I thank you!0 -
I have a similar issue - but with people who eat 1000 cals and log an hour of jogging in at one calorie... I know it is so it doesn't make their net APPEAR low, but the reality is that they are netting 400 cals. It is ridiculous. I don't even question them anymore, I just delete them from my FL.
About the one calorie workout; one of my friends did that and I had to reply "is x amount of minutes of exercise really 1 calorie?" Of course, I got no response back on that, just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.
when you are using the TDEE method your exercise is already factored into your cal goals so you cannot put the real amount of cals u burned b/c it would raise your daily allowance for the day and give you too high net cals for weight loss. Ignore that, that's happening by ppl who know what they are doing.
^^^^ this
I log 1 calorie exercise burns (currently, didn't use to) because it encourages me to stay on track with my scheduled workouts. My exercise is already accounted for in my calorie goal. A lot of people on my friend's list do this as well.
This makes complete sense and is something I am considering when I get to the point of allowing for consistent daily exercise. I am just not at this point in my life, but I am working on it!0 -
I've actually had a similar problem but slightly different. I have been encouraged to be self destructive on this site actually by men and women young and old. I just delete people who encourage unsafe behavior. if it's dangerous, it's dangerous, that's all there is to it. I had someone ask me why I unfriended them on mfp and I just said the truth. just say the truth.0
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I have noticed this trend that a decent amount of my MFP friends are eating nowhere the amount of calories they should be like logging an insane amount of exercise calories and netting something like 400 calories for the day.
That's pretty much impossible. Netting that few calories a day would very quickly bring an end to high levels of activity. Most likely most of these people are both under-estimating their intake and over-estimating their exercise burn.
Ultimately, it's not my place to police other people's habits.0 -
I have noticed this trend that a decent amount of my MFP friends are eating nowhere the amount of calories they should be like logging an insane amount of exercise calories and netting something like 400 calories for the day.
That's pretty much impossible. Netting that few calories a day would very quickly bring an end to high levels of activity. Most likely most of these people are both under-estimating their intake and over-estimating their exercise burn.
Ultimately, it's not my place to police other people's habits.
Of course, you are probably right that a) that amount of daily activity is not sustainable and b) they probably over-estimating their exercise expenditures and under-estimating their daily calorie intake. But, to be fair, I also only go back a few days, maybe a week and look for patterns. This is done to prevent unfairly jumping to the wrong conclusions if this pattern was only for a few days (maybe they were sick, maybe a personal issue, etc.).
You are right, I probably should not try to police them. As I addressed this issue in a blog entry of mine, I am not their mother and we are all adults here. But on the other hand, the humanitarian in me is concerned about their health.
I am still on the fence on how to proceed with this and I am taking in all opinions (which have been excellent; thank you all for taking the time to post) and formulating my next move.0 -
In a totally different and probably uncommon perspective, I'm one of those people whose diary consistently shows under 1200 calories, with days I exercise showing way less net than that. I think I am the exception to the rule on this, but who knows?
I am pretty strong in my anorexia recovery (been out of treatment for 18 months without a significant relapse) but have recently been struggling with a lot of body image issues and feeling out of control with my food. Obviously I know that this is stemming from changes in my personal life that I won't discuss on MFP, but the desire to engage in "ana" behaviors has been strong lately so I decided to start logging my food again. But I also don't want to relapse and know that calorie counting has been a big trigger for me in the past, so here is what I do:
I purposely do not add all my food to my log. I have a tendency to snack on baby carrots and I don't add those in often. Things like dipping sauces or salad dressings I don't add because I know those calories are relatively negligible. And I also eat at least one 200+ calorie protein bar that I don't log. So my diary is usually about 200-350 calories short every day. This way my ED is happy seeing a low net calorie count, but my healthy mind is happy because I really am eating enough to sustain a healthy weight. I'm literally tricking my brain.
I know this isn't typical of what most people do on here, but I thought it might be an interesting idea to add. Unless you are with the person 24/7 you really don't know what they are eating or exercising so we can't judge all that accurately. Just "food" for thought0 -
I get where you are coming from on this. Is it possible they have forgot to add in other items they ate? Or is the goal posted that they will not eat no more than that low Calorie amount? It is definitely a concern because they are practically starving themselves and it could hurt them. If you say something to them be sure to show you are here to support them but you are really concerned about their low calorie intake.
A valid point. Thank you!
Normally, this is coupled with a) consistent day in day out low net calorie reporting and b) constant newsfeed talk about hating to eat, whining about how many calories are in 3g of butter, how gross they feel when they eat *anything*, that kind of stuff. This pretty much raises red flags all over the place.0 -
Having had a friend actually die from anorexia I cannot at all support this. I don't feel its my place either to try to convince someone over the internet that this is damaging. I would hope she has some family or friends in her life that are aware of her eating. But in my experience its alot trickier of a condition and to tackle it online with a stranger is close to pointless.
First off, so sorry about the loss of your friend; that was truly heartbreaking!
Your other point about (paraphrasing) "not my place to convince someone their behavior is damaging" is something I am having trouble wrapping my mind around. You and Mr Knight are correct, this should not be my concern (I am not their mother, we are all adults kind of thing), but the fear that someone in my MFP friends might have same faith as your friend. It is a depressing thought and one where I need to determine how much effort I should assert to (potentially) save someone from harming themselves (as quaint a notion that is).
Thank you for your reply!0
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