Weight Training

timbrom

I started off w/ 5/3/1 as a total beginner. I remember benching 95lbs and being excited when I hit 135. I think you could modify it for a nice beginner split, his newest book has a lot more options in it then the first 2 editions.

I have the 2nd edition - he outlines his full-body setup on page 79.

It's definitely suitable for a beginner as long as they have an idea of their RMs so they can get an accurate(ish) training max to start with. I worry that a total beginner will not have an accurate handle on their RMs in order to establish the correct starting point. Since the whole programme is percentage based, you really do need to start off with the right TM.

Absolutely, I would suggest someone start at 60% of their 1RM, especially if they are untrained.

You can zone in on the 90% he talks about for the standard programme by doing a triple. It's something like 90(ish)% of your 1RM, I think. It's still a bit much for a beginner though. I don't think the connective tissue has been exposed to enough ongoing stress at the beginner stage to handle this kind of thing. Takes tendons and stuff a while to adapt.

I'm not sure how a true beginner would know their 1RM to take a percentage off of though? Unless they worked up to 5-6RM and used that figure for their 1st cycle TM? That would be a conservative enough start, I would think and allow their soft tissue time to adapt before things really got going.

A 1RM for a beginner is unknowable. The simple act of finding your 1RM as a beginner will provide a sufficient training stress to trigger an adaptation that will increase your 1RM. Same would go for proxying a 3RM or 5RM and calculating a 1RM for that, building up to those will, in and of itself, increase your strength, rendering your results useless.

dtimedwards

No need for so much complexity.

Eat what MFP tells you
Do Stronglifts 5X5

timbrom

THANK YOU ALL!

So far here is what I got:

1. Purchase the book Staring Strength (Kindle Fire - maybe) - ??
2. Full Body 3x/week (I assume a single day break in-between - so I could do a Friday, Sunday and Tuesday) - ??
3. Calories around 2K a day - high content of lean protein
4. Reps, Sets (I assume you be lower weight and higher reps and then increase over time) - ??
5. Cardio on off days - ??

1. Definitely
2. It's in the book, but yes
3. I'd even shoot for more like 2.5k, with 200-250g of protein. See where that gets you. If you're not losing after 2 weeks then drop 1-200 calories and try again.
4. It's in the book
5. Cardio will mess with your results. Ideally you'll do nothing, if you have to do something try HIIT once a week, 8 rounds of 20s on and 100s off.

5. Mess with what results? Weight loss?? lol. Because that's hiw goal, to lose fat.

Cardio is fine. 3 times a week. Not immediately before lifting.

You can't sufficiently recover from 3 cardio sessions and 3 truly heavy lifting sessions a week. You'll overtrain and burn out fairly quickly. You will see much better results if you take the time to recover properly. And by results, I'm not just talking about weight loss, I assume the OP would like to be strong too.

jimmmer

You can zone in on the 90% he talks about for the standard programme by doing a triple. It's something like 90(ish)% of your 1RM, I think. It's still a bit much for a beginner though. I don't think the connective tissue has been exposed to enough ongoing stress at the beginner stage to handle this kind of thing. Takes tendons and stuff a while to adapt.

I'm not sure how a true beginner would know their 1RM to take a percentage off of though? Unless they worked up to 5-6RM and used that figure for their 1st cycle TM? That would be a conservative enough start, I would think and allow their soft tissue time to adapt before things really got going.

A 1RM for a beginner is unknowable. The simple act of finding your 1RM as a beginner will provide a sufficient training stress to trigger an adaptation that will increase your 1RM. Same would go for proxying a 3RM or 5RM and calculating a 1RM for that, building up to those will, in and of itself, increase your strength, rendering your results useless.

Sure, but that's the same for most trainee's: once you can do it, you've adapted to it.

Anyway, I agree with you - it's not the best way for a beginner to start. Something like Stronglifts of Starting Strength will work you up to where you need to be without overly complicating things. People can come to a percentage-based routine later on when they've got a bit more lifting experience.

jwdieter

Did OP say how tall he was? Pretty important if people are going to throw around calorie recommendations.

jimmmer

Did OP say how tall he was? Pretty important if people are going to throw around calorie recommendations.

He's a grown-*kitten* man wanting to do a compound lifting routine and add in extra cardio on top. 1200-1500 will NOT be enough. It will never be enough. He'll stall out and fall flat on his *kitten* in a very short time.

jwdieter

Did OP say how tall he was? Pretty important if people are going to throw around calorie recommendations.

He's a grown-*kitten* man wanting to do a compound lifting routine and add in extra cardio on top. 1200-1500 will NOT be enough. It will never be enough. He'll stall out and fall flat on his *kitten* in a very short time.

There have also been recommendations of 2500 and only 3/week strength training as well. If he's small and fat, he'll just get stronger with that.

timbrom

Did OP say how tall he was? Pretty important if people are going to throw around calorie recommendations.

Wouldn't really make much difference. I suppose if he's really tall he probably doesn't actually have 50 lbs to lose and should thus eat even more, but pretty much what jimmmer said.

Huffdogg

Did OP say how tall he was? Pretty important if people are going to throw around calorie recommendations.

He's a grown-*kitten* man wanting to do a compound lifting routine and add in extra cardio on top. 1200-1500 will NOT be enough. It will never be enough. He'll stall out and fall flat on his *kitten* in a very short time.

There have also been recommendations of 2500 and only 3/week strength training as well. If he's small and fat, he'll just get stronger with that.

I don't care how tall you are. If you weigh 265 and only eat 2500 calories a day and lift 3/week, you're in a deficit.

lrmall01

No need for so much complexity.

Eat what MFP tells you
Do Stronglifts 5X5

Agreed, with the caveat that MFP will probably not suggest enough protein. Adjust the macros and then it should be good.

jwdieter

Random numbers are fun. It's probably a deficit! What is this "MFP" thing?

timbrom

Random numbers are fun. It's probably a deficit! What is this "MFP" thing?

Personally, I don't really like MFPs NEAT + Exercise method for people who are primarily weight training, since calorie burn during weight training is (for all practical purposes) impossible to measure accurately. Could the OP punch their numbers into a TDEE Calculator and do the TDEE-20% method? Sure. But the number he's going to get back is going to be close enough to 2500 that it doesn't matter. And like I said, that number is a starting point. Do it for a couple of weeks. See what happens. Is it working? Then keep doing it. Are you not losing weight? Then drop a hundred or two calories and try again. This is the method most people have to use anyhow. TDEE calculators, NEAT + Exercise calculators are all fine and dandy for finding a starting point, but we all know there is large population variance and most people will need to titrate their macros to find what works for their particular metabolism.

trebin

I do not use MFP to track my exercise at all, I have a diet guy and use it to only train macros. I am excited to see where this goes, weight training changed my life and I hate missing days.

trebin

Right now I am at 1-1.4g of protein per lb of bodyweight

FrnkLft

You can zone in on the 90% he talks about for the standard programme by doing a triple. It's something like 90(ish)% of your 1RM, I think. It's still a bit much for a beginner though. I don't think the connective tissue has been exposed to enough ongoing stress at the beginner stage to handle this kind of thing. Takes tendons and stuff a while to adapt.

I'm not sure how a true beginner would know their 1RM to take a percentage off of though? Unless they worked up to 5-6RM and used that figure for their 1st cycle TM? That would be a conservative enough start, I would think and allow their soft tissue time to adapt before things really got going.

A 1RM for a beginner is unknowable. The simple act of finding your 1RM as a beginner will provide a sufficient training stress to trigger an adaptation that will increase your 1RM. Same would go for proxying a 3RM or 5RM and calculating a 1RM for that, building up to those will, in and of itself, increase your strength, rendering your results useless.

Sure, but that's the same for most trainee's: once you can do it, you've adapted to it.

Anyway, I agree with you - it's not the best way for a beginner to start. Something like Stronglifts of Starting Strength will work you up to where you need to be without overly complicating things. People can come to a percentage-based routine later on when they've got a bit more lifting experience.

Agreed. Very little attention is paid to the integrity and adaptation of tendons and joints. Stronglifts has quick progression, to where even starting with the bar, you're up to 225 lbs (two 45s on either side) by 6 months in. That's VERY fast, provided you even get there. Just requires an ego check and discipline. I would even say AMRAP or apply joker sets to the last set of the day if you like (for maybe 3 joker sets per exercise/workout).

The squat climbs twice as fast though, but maybe that's ok.