Is it possible to increase muscle without increasing fat?
anson808
Posts: 47 Member
I'm 6'2" and if my home scale is to be believed, I'm 176lbs at about 11.5% body fat. (I totally think I'm closer to 18% or the entirety of my fat is centered on my tummy.)
I'd like to get more muscle on me, hopefully to move me faster and more powerfully (sports related). I don't want to get fatter - in fact, I'd like to see a 6-pack at some point.
Is it possible to gain useful/functional muscle (to help me jump and sprint) AND lose body fat at the same time? Or am I stuck gaining muscle/weight, and then trying to cut later to shred some fat off?
Thanks for the help everyone. I've always been easily able to lose weight, but I've always had a really hard time gaining weight.
BTW, if it turns out my weight gains don't help me be more explosive, I'll just drop to the lighter weight again. But that's a different topic...
I'd like to get more muscle on me, hopefully to move me faster and more powerfully (sports related). I don't want to get fatter - in fact, I'd like to see a 6-pack at some point.
Is it possible to gain useful/functional muscle (to help me jump and sprint) AND lose body fat at the same time? Or am I stuck gaining muscle/weight, and then trying to cut later to shred some fat off?
Thanks for the help everyone. I've always been easily able to lose weight, but I've always had a really hard time gaining weight.
BTW, if it turns out my weight gains don't help me be more explosive, I'll just drop to the lighter weight again. But that's a different topic...
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Replies
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You are going to need to be in a calorie surplus to gain muscle. Muscle requires energy to be build, so therefore yes you will gain some fat while gaining muscle.
you could aim for a small bulk say 200 calorie surplus per day. Or you could try eating in surplus on work out days and eating at maintenance on non-work out days.
If you would like to see a six pack, you might have more success cutting down until you can see it and then doing a bulk …0 -
Some people have added muscle and kept the same bodyfat percentage. That means they've gained some fat, but their total fat percentage has stayed the same. I think keeping a smaller surplus, like 150-250 might help with that, potentially. Maybe. Regardless of what the critics say, some of it may have to do with macro percentages. I read a study that showed that if you get sufficient protein (say 25% of your macros) and then let the carbs and fat take up the rest in proper ratio, you will have an easier time gaining muscle. Also, the critics won't like this one either, but generally leaner people with less fat to begin with gain less fat, too. So, I think that's the best you could do--keep the same or almost the same bodyfat percentage...maybe. But you'll still gain some fat. That can be taken care of later. Work out hard but don't overdo it, and get sufficient protein (1-1.5g per lb of LBM). Eat a surplus, but don't go crazy with that, either. For me, 350 cal works well, but does produce some fat gains too. I'm not sure if surplus amount and fat gain threshold depends on the individual. It might. But do all this, and most of the gains will be muscle. But "most" could mean anywhere from 70 to 90 percent or whatever.0
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It is possible. It is usually referred to as a body recomposition or recomp for short.
Try to eat as close to maintenance calories as possible and follow a proven lifting program and you could add a little muscle while maintaining or even losing some body fat.
Very slow though. If you have little trouble cutting body fat you could probably get results much faster with a couple bulk/cut cycles.0 -
Also depends on how long you've been lifting. People new to lifting can see some gains while in a deficit, obese people also (although clearly that is not a category you fall in to). Otherwise, as the previous posters have said, you're going to have to eat a surplus. Some people have success with a small surplus, also known as a lean bulk, but generally this is thought to take longer to build muscle than a more traditional bulk. How much of the surplus your body partitions to muscle or fat depends on a couple different variables, such as macros and training load, as well as just plain genetics, and probably a few others that I haven't mentioned. Ultimately though, unless you are a newb to lifting you're just going to have to accept a certain amount of fat gain if you want to build muscle. But then, that's what cutting is for.0
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It is possible. It is usually referred to as a body recomposition or recomp for short.
Try to eat as close to maintenance calories as possible and follow a proven lifting program and you could add a little muscle while maintaining or even losing some body fat.
Very slow though. If you have little trouble cutting body fat you could probably get results much faster with a couple bulk/cut cycles.
It really sounds like you'd be happier with either a recomp (eating at or just slightly below maintenance) or a clean bulk (300-500 calories a day above maintenance). If you have a hard time gaining weight like I do, you may have to eat more. Regardless, you have to lift heavy 3-4 times a week or your muscles will have no reason to grow. :drinker:0 -
It is possible. It is usually referred to as a body recomposition or recomp for short.
Try to eat as close to maintenance calories as possible and follow a proven lifting program and you could add a little muscle while maintaining or even losing some body fat.
Very slow though. If you have little trouble cutting body fat you could probably get results much faster with a couple bulk/cut cycles.
^^ This. It's possible, but even when it is, it's very slow and inefficient. Most people get frustrated with it eventually.0 -
It is possible. It is usually referred to as a body recomposition or recomp for short.
Try to eat as close to maintenance calories as possible and follow a proven lifting program and you could add a little muscle while maintaining or even losing some body fat.
Very slow though. If you have little trouble cutting body fat you could probably get results much faster with a couple bulk/cut cycles.
^^ This. It's possible, but even when it is, it's very slow and inefficient. Most people get frustrated with it eventually.
Yes. Many start out doing a recomp, whether they know what it is called or not. Then they realize they are, in fact, human.0 -
How long have you been lifting for and what routine have you been doing?0
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Very common question ie "lose fat and gain muscle"
It's "possible" but it depends on many things and a very focussed routine.0 -
Certain things such as quickness, are difficult to train... they can be enhanced but they sort of have to be there to begin with. Generally though, if you want to gain muscle usually you will have some fat gains; however, this does not have to increase at the same rate as the muscle if you approach it carefully. Because of the specificity of what you are trying to achieve, I encourage you to find a qualified and certified personal training specialist to consult; this does not have to be a long term commitment or necessarily an expensive one... just somebody who can help you achieve your specific goals. Usually, they can properly assess your body fat percentage using calipers or similar device so that you know for sure what you are working from.0
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Saved me typing! This is what I'm doing but it is slow.It is possible. It is usually referred to as a body recomposition or recomp for short.
Try to eat as close to maintenance calories as possible and follow a proven lifting program and you could add a little muscle while maintaining or even losing some body fat.
Very slow though. If you have little trouble cutting body fat you could probably get results much faster with a couple bulk/cut cycles.
Suits me as I'm happy at this weight and it's not my priority.
As I understand it recomp works best for those who are "over-fat" (as Lyle phrases it) and currently below their training peak (either newbie or "returning athlete").
As I'm currently about 18% BF and strength-wise at about 80% of my lifetime peak (from 30 years ago!) I'm still seeing & measuring progress.
If you are are already at low body fat then it's unlikely to get you the results you want above some initial gains.0 -
Interested to see if anyone knows how much of this weight training muscle we are building is fast twitch. I get the feeling that this gradually (sadly) disappears as you get older and slow twitch (endurance) takes over.
OP you may want to check out the book Racing Weight if you want your speeds to pick up. In my experience, my times got faster and my average heart rate got slower the less weight I was carrying. Obviously I was trying to just lose the ballast (fat). Unfortunately I cut a bit too fast and lost some LBM which I've now built again. I still ran faster though. What sports do you do, and how old are you?
I'd love to hear more about this fast twitch/slow twitch subject if anyone can contribute.0 -
Sounds like you really might be looking for functional strength rather than big muscles. Calisthenics guys don't usually get big muscles but can be strong as h**. But then again I don't know if it's harder or easier to gain strength than muscle mass. Me I'm still gaining strength on calorie deficit and newbiegains.0
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I'm in my late 30s and I'm not totally new to lifting. My primary routines at this point are mostly the P90x workouts. Specifically part 3. If my counting matches up to my watch when I wake up in the morning, I have almost a 40 bpm heart rate.
When I'm not goofing around with that, I focus mostly on squats (front and back), power cleans, dead lifts , core, and overall body conditioning (pull-ups and push-ups). My speed work consists of foot drills on court and in the sand.
Seasonally I'll return to plyometrics, but only after I've built up a strength base. I make sure I can squat 50% of my weight within 3 sec time cycle.
My PB vertical reach is 10'10". Which is enough to dunk. My standing reach is almost 8', meaning vertical was 34". Currently it's closer to 24". I'll be happy to get back to 30" vertical leap. That is with a 3 step approach.
I'm wondering if it's my body composition that's making it tough on me, my workouts, or just my age. Lol. It's sad but I am actually carrying more muscle in my upper body than when was jumping my best.
Perhaps it would be best to ditch the beachbody workouts and just do my old routines or try one of those jump programs I read about on the internet.
Thanks again for all the responses all. It's been helpful.0 -
The quickest way is to do a bulk/cut cycle. If you follow any other path, it will take longer. I managed to increase by carb/calorie cycling but it is very slow. It also requires more planning and discipline. Nowadays, I'm just eating a bit more all the time.0
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Calisthenics guys don't usually get big muscles but can be strong as h**.
This has everything to do with diet and nothing to do with exercise style.
Cali is just as effective for muscle gains as weights, if not moreso (every exercise is a compound exercise, the stronger you get the more extreme the effect). Strength training is strength training, no matter where the resistance comes from.0 -
I'm 6'2" and if my home scale is to be believed, I'm 176lbs at about 11.5% body fat. (I totally think I'm closer to 18% or the entirety of my fat is centered on my tummy.)
I'd like to get more muscle on me, hopefully to move me faster and more powerfully (sports related). I don't want to get fatter - in fact, I'd like to see a 6-pack at some point.
Welcome to my world. : ) I am 6'1" and initially cut all the way down to 165 lbs. at 10-11% BF. Even with intensive weight training, I still carried a bit of fat on my lower abs at this weight. Last winter, I did a 15-week bulk from 165 to 180 and then cut back to 170 still around 11% with a 4-pack and some lower ab fat. This winter I am bulking again. Starting at 172 in Sept, I was 187 today with a target of 190 by end of Jan with really good strength gains. I have definitely gained mass but I've also added 2+ inches to my waist. Starting Feb, I will then cut all the way back to 170 and hopefully reveal a full six pack.0 -
I'm 6'2" and if my home scale is to be believed, I'm 176lbs at about 11.5% body fat. (I totally think I'm closer to 18% or the entirety of my fat is centered on my tummy.)
I'd like to get more muscle on me, hopefully to move me faster and more powerfully (sports related). I don't want to get fatter - in fact, I'd like to see a 6-pack at some point.
Welcome to my world. : ) I am 6'1" and initially cut all the way down to 165 lbs. at 10-11% BF. Even with intensive weight training, I still carried a bit of fat on my lower abs at this weight. Last winter, I did a 15-week bulk from 165 to 180 and then cut back to 170 still around 11% with a 4-pack and some lower ab fat. This winter I am bulking again. Starting at 172 in Sept, I was 187 today with a target of 190 by end of Jan with really good strength gains. I have definitely gained mass but I've also added 2+ inches to my waist. Starting Feb, I will then cut all the way back to 170 and hopefully reveal a full six pack.
Those are substantial cuts. I'm sure some people have cut more drastically (a bodybuilder whose name escapes me at the moment comes to mind). But why such a large gain (15-20 lbs) for such a small return (5 lbs)? It's energy and time intensive. Also, what are your lifting regimen, calorie goals, and macros like during your bulk and cut phases?
ETA: Lee Priest0 -
I'm 6'2" and if my home scale is to be believed, I'm 176lbs at about 11.5% body fat. (I totally think I'm closer to 18% or the entirety of my fat is centered on my tummy.)
I'd like to get more muscle on me, hopefully to move me faster and more powerfully (sports related). I don't want to get fatter - in fact, I'd like to see a 6-pack at some point.
Welcome to my world. : ) I am 6'1" and initially cut all the way down to 165 lbs. at 10-11% BF. Even with intensive weight training, I still carried a bit of fat on my lower abs at this weight. Last winter, I did a 15-week bulk from 165 to 180 and then cut back to 170 still around 11% with a 4-pack and some lower ab fat. This winter I am bulking again. Starting at 172 in Sept, I was 187 today with a target of 190 by end of Jan with really good strength gains. I have definitely gained mass but I've also added 2+ inches to my waist. Starting Feb, I will then cut all the way back to 170 and hopefully reveal a full six pack.
Those are substantial cuts. I'm sure some people have cut more drastically (a bodybuilder whose name escapes me at the moment comes to mind). But why such a large gain (15-20 lbs) for such a small return (5 lbs)? It's energy and time intensive. Also, what are your lifting regimen, calorie goals, and macros like during your bulk and cut phases?
ETA: Lee Priest
I want to be significantly leaner at 175 than I was at 165. My goal is to be 175 at 8-10% BF. Currently doing SL 5x5 plus some additional supplemental work with a personal trainer. 3,000-3,200 cals on the bulk (180p, 300c, 117f). I will cut on 2,000-2,200 cals keeping protein at 180g. Will also add 1 to 2 days running/cardio during the cut (mainly to prep for some upcoming 5/10K runs).0 -
If you're not seeing 6 pack at 11%, then you're first guess at 18% is probably more accurate. Just like losing weight reduces a little muscle along with fat, gaining muscle will usually include fat gain. It's entirely possible to do a "lean gain" but it's a pretty long drawn out process to see anything significant.I'm 6'2" and if my home scale is to be believed, I'm 176lbs at about 11.5% body fat. (I totally think I'm closer to 18% or the entirety of my fat is centered on my tummy.)
I'd like to get more muscle on me, hopefully to move me faster and more powerfully (sports related). I don't want to get fatter - in fact, I'd like to see a 6-pack at some point.
Is it possible to gain useful/functional muscle (to help me jump and sprint) AND lose body fat at the same time? Or am I stuck gaining muscle/weight, and then trying to cut later to shred some fat off?
Thanks for the help everyone. I've always been easily able to lose weight, but I've always had a really hard time gaining weight.
BTW, if it turns out my weight gains don't help me be more explosive, I'll just drop to the lighter weight again. But that's a different topic...
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I'm 6'2" and if my home scale is to be believed, I'm 176lbs at about 11.5% body fat. (I totally think I'm closer to 18% or the entirety of my fat is centered on my tummy.)
I'd like to get more muscle on me, hopefully to move me faster and more powerfully (sports related). I don't want to get fatter - in fact, I'd like to see a 6-pack at some point.
Welcome to my world. : ) I am 6'1" and initially cut all the way down to 165 lbs. at 10-11% BF. Even with intensive weight training, I still carried a bit of fat on my lower abs at this weight. Last winter, I did a 15-week bulk from 165 to 180 and then cut back to 170 still around 11% with a 4-pack and some lower ab fat. This winter I am bulking again. Starting at 172 in Sept, I was 187 today with a target of 190 by end of Jan with really good strength gains. I have definitely gained mass but I've also added 2+ inches to my waist. Starting Feb, I will then cut all the way back to 170 and hopefully reveal a full six pack.
Those are substantial cuts. I'm sure some people have cut more drastically (a bodybuilder whose name escapes me at the moment comes to mind). But why such a large gain (15-20 lbs) for such a small return (5 lbs)? It's energy and time intensive. Also, what are your lifting regimen, calorie goals, and macros like during your bulk and cut phases?
ETA: Lee Priest
I want to be significantly leaner at 175 than I was at 165. My goal is to be 175 at 8-10% BF. Currently doing SL 5x5 plus some additional supplemental work with a personal trainer. 3,000-3,200 cals on the bulk (180p, 300c, 117f). I will cut on 2,000-2,200 cals keeping protein at 180g. Will also add 1 to 2 days running/cardio during the cut (mainly to prep for some upcoming 5/10K runs).
I see. Not to detract from the main focus of this thread anymore...but is that a 500 cal surplus and a 500 cal deficit? I can't help but think you might be losing some muscle on your cut. Just a hunch from the numbers.0 -
Some people have added muscle and kept the same bodyfat percentage. That means they've gained some fat, but their total fat percentage has stayed the same. I think keeping a smaller surplus, like 150-250 might help with that, potentially. Maybe. Regardless of what the critics say, some of it may have to do with macro percentages. I read a study that showed that if you get sufficient protein (say 25% of your macros) and then let the carbs and fat take up the rest in proper ratio, you will have an easier time gaining muscle. Also, the critics won't like this one either, but generally leaner people with less fat to begin with gain less fat, too. So, I think that's the best you could do--keep the same or almost the same bodyfat percentage...maybe. But you'll still gain some fat. That can be taken care of later. Work out hard but don't overdo it, and get sufficient protein (1-1.5g per lb of LBM). Eat a surplus, but don't go crazy with that, either. For me, 350 cal works well, but does produce some fat gains too. I'm not sure if surplus amount and fat gain threshold depends on the individual. It might. But do all this, and most of the gains will be muscle. But "most" could mean anywhere from 70 to 90 percent or whatever.
Yup
Its all about body composition , personally I can make decent gains while maintaining bodyfat % just over maintenance calories . Takes ages though . That's why majority of people eat at a 300-500surplus while gaining , Sacrifice the definition and add some mass , after a few months you can go on a "cut" and drop to a lower bf% and see all your new gains .0 -
I'm 6'2" and if my home scale is to be believed, I'm 176lbs at about 11.5% body fat. (I totally think I'm closer to 18% or the entirety of my fat is centered on my tummy.)
I'd like to get more muscle on me, hopefully to move me faster and more powerfully (sports related). I don't want to get fatter - in fact, I'd like to see a 6-pack at some point.
Welcome to my world. : ) I am 6'1" and initially cut all the way down to 165 lbs. at 10-11% BF. Even with intensive weight training, I still carried a bit of fat on my lower abs at this weight. Last winter, I did a 15-week bulk from 165 to 180 and then cut back to 170 still around 11% with a 4-pack and some lower ab fat. This winter I am bulking again. Starting at 172 in Sept, I was 187 today with a target of 190 by end of Jan with really good strength gains. I have definitely gained mass but I've also added 2+ inches to my waist. Starting Feb, I will then cut all the way back to 170 and hopefully reveal a full six pack.
Those are substantial cuts. I'm sure some people have cut more drastically (a bodybuilder whose name escapes me at the moment comes to mind). But why such a large gain (15-20 lbs) for such a small return (5 lbs)? It's energy and time intensive. Also, what are your lifting regimen, calorie goals, and macros like during your bulk and cut phases?
ETA: Lee Priest
I want to be significantly leaner at 175 than I was at 165. My goal is to be 175 at 8-10% BF. Currently doing SL 5x5 plus some additional supplemental work with a personal trainer. 3,000-3,200 cals on the bulk (180p, 300c, 117f). I will cut on 2,000-2,200 cals keeping protein at 180g. Will also add 1 to 2 days running/cardio during the cut (mainly to prep for some upcoming 5/10K runs).
I see. Not to detract from the main focus of this thread anymore...but is that a 500 cal surplus and a 500 cal deficit? I can't help but think you might be losing some muscle on your cut. Just a hunch from the numbers.
That is less than 0.6% of body weight - seems reasonable to me and should not necessarily result in more LBM loss than a slightly smaller deficit.0
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