Red Meat?

ninerbuff

again you're making things up... when did is state nutrition was my major? i majored in biochemistry & public health to become a physician's assistant but i switched careers to a different job in the healthy industry...

Like promoting veganism?

no eating red meat is not healthy, does not mean people who eat it are unhealthy because you can eat meat and still eat other plants and nutritious food

if you want a clear example of what im talking about look at Robin Quivers. She was diagnosed with endometrial cancer and maintained a vegan diet, as she had been for over 10 years. She also received chemo and some radiation and stated that HER OWN DOCTORS told her that her vegan diet is the likely reason she survived cancer and had no negative side effects from the chemotherapy(besides losing her hair)

so there you go a woman who was a vegan for over a decade who had no adverse effects to chemotherapy, which is pretty much unheard of,

she survived when the odds were she would die during surgery, or be stuck with a colostomy bag for the rest of her life

Anecdotes aren't evidence. And you seem to use a lot of them as your proof.

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ninerbuff

Read the China Study. Perhaps you already have jessigoct17. Good stuff. I try to follow a plant based diet 90 % of the time.

China Study has been debunked. By actual science mind you.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-china-study-revisited/

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ninerbuff

yet again more people are attacking & insulting me when i just said that if you enjoy eating meat and you have a healthy lifestyle thats fine but keep going keep picking sentences out of paragraphs i write and analyzing them and telling me im wrong and im citing crap resources i dont care, all i said is i believe a vegan diet is the healthiest if you dont believe thats true good for you why do i care what you think none of you are me or live in my body.

You're not being attacked............you're being refuted by the statements you're implying and using weak evidence to support it.

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neandermagnon

if iron deficiency is an issue, I'd recommend meals that include red meat, dark green vegetables and beans. My iron levels improved a lot from that.

the studies showing a link between red meat and illness, they don't isolate individual factors very well, as they're comparing the standard american diet with the vegetarian diet so it's not necessarily the red meat itself that's the problem, but a whole combination of factors, such as the vegetarian diet including more vegetables, and the standard american diet being too high in both fat and carbs. So really, what those studies prove is that the standard american diet isn't healthy. However, modern hunter-gatherers eat a lot of red meat but don't have the health issues, mostly because they have to catch their food before they eat it (i.e. they get way more exercise than the standard American) and also eat hundreds of different plant foods over the course of a year (due to seasonal variations) - so when you look at those factors as well, the message should be to get plenty of exercise, eat plenty of plant foods, eat meat if you want to (and if you don't make sure you're following a nutritionally balanced vegetarian diet), and make sure the amount of fat and carbs you eat is not in excess of your body's requirements.

People are very prone to dichotomous thinking and going to extremes rather than a happy medium. You can see this all over people's ideas about healthy eating.... people went from "too much fat is bad for you" to promoting very low fat diets, rather than aiming to get the *right amount of fat*, ditto "too much carbs are bad for you" to promoting very low carb diets, rather than trying to get the right amount of carbs, and from "high fat, high carb diets rich in red meat is linked to increased cancer rates" to "everyone should go vegan" - in relation to red meat, it's a very good source of iron, and if a vegetarian or red meat free diet is causing someone to become anaemic, then really, it's not a healthy diet. healthy diets don't make you ill, that's the point. So if you find that you're healthier by including red meat in your diet, then that's a healthier diet for you. As for how much, if you're logging your food on here, set your macronutrient (fat, carb and protein) targets to something balanced that suits your fitness goals (e.g. 50% carb, 20% fat 30% protein, or 40% carb, 30% fat 30% protein, or around those numbers) and aim to hit those, so you'll know how much of everything to eat.

neandermagnon

no eating red meat is not healthy, does not mean people who eat it are unhealthy because you can eat meat and still eat other plants and nutritious food

you'd better get in a time machine and warn all the humans who've lived as hunter-gatherers over the last 2+ million years and tell them that all that red meat is bad for them

oh, wait, if you do that we'll never evolve....

staveshabr

personally i believe in the ideal if you was meant to die its going to happen one way or another so enjoy life, with that being said i eat all meats and usually daily and everytime i go to the doctor everything is perfectly fine always been heathly obese and all lol so you can try it out if your body disagrees find an alternative:flowerforyou:

psuLemon

yet again more people are attacking & insulting me when i just said that if you enjoy eating meat and you have a healthy lifestyle thats fine but keep going keep picking sentences out of paragraphs i write and analyzing them and telling me im wrong and im citing crap resources i dont care, all i said is i believe a vegan diet is the healthiest if you dont believe thats true good for you why do i care what you think none of you are me or live in my body.

Disagreement =/= attack. If people were attacking you, I would be giving a warning and remove them from this thread. What people expect are real studies.. not one person's success story. One person switching to vegan while having stage 4 and surviving doesn't mean vegan is a healthier lifestyle. If vegan was proven to be superior, then every cancer patient would have been switched to that diet years ago. Essentially, people are looking for non bias studies. You typically see these with studies done with the National Institute of Health, American Journal of Medicine, Harvard or scientist such as Alan Alagon, Layne Norton, etc..


Here are some studies or items that members tend to look for. Both are from the NIH. While both correlate that increasing red meat will increase the chances of cardio vascular disease or other issues, it doesn't confirm it's the cause. Many of these studies will write stuff such as:

"Since this was an observational study in which people reported their own food intake, it's possible that the associations seen may be due to other factors. When the researchers accounted for known risk factors in red meat—like saturated fat, dietary cholesterol and iron—they still couldn't account for all of the risk associated with eating red meat. Other mechanisms may be involved, or other unknown factors may affect the results. Further study will be needed to fully understand the connection between red meat consumption and health."

So keep in mind, that correlation =/= causation. But more importantly, it's vary ambiguous to how they define increasing consumption of red meat. It also doesn't mention if it's all red meat or other types (processed vs unprocess; lean vs high fat). In fact, if you look at my previous post on fats, Harvard concluded:

Although the different types of fat have a varied—and admittedly confusing—effect on health and disease, the basic message is simple: Out with the bad, in with the good. You can do this by choosing foods with healthy fats, limiting foods that are high in saturated fat, and avoiding trans fat. Here’s how to make it happen:
1. Eliminate trans fats from partially hydrogenated oils.
2. Limit your intake of saturated fats by cutting back on red meat and full-fat dairy foods
3. In place of butter, use liquid vegetable oils rich in polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats, in cooking and at the table
4. Eat one or more good sources of omega-3 fats every day.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22412075

http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/march2012/03262012meat.htm


So I would think that none of us are suggesting eating red meat daily, we are more against when people make blanket statements like " red meat is not healthy for u. animal protein is difficult for our bodies to break down and it is not meant for human consumption.. "

Essentially, it all comes down to eating a variety of food and eat red meat in moderation. And when you do eat red meat, try eat more lean cuts to reduce saturate fats. I will note, if you read up on saturate fats, there is still more research required on it.

firstsip

yet again more people are attacking & insulting me when i just said that if you enjoy eating meat and you have a healthy lifestyle thats fine but keep going keep picking sentences out of paragraphs i write and analyzing them and telling me im wrong and im citing crap resources i dont care, all i said is i believe a vegan diet is the healthiest if you dont believe thats true good for you why do i care what you think none of you are me or live in my body.

Disagreement =/= attack. If people were attacking you, I would be giving a warning and remove them from this thread. What people expect are real studies.. not one person's success story. One person switching to vegan while having stage 4 and surviving doesn't mean vegan is a healthier lifestyle. If vegan was proven to be superior, then every cancer patient would have been switched to that diet years ago. Essentially, people are looking for non bias studies. You typically see these with studies done with the National Institute of Health, American Journal of Medicine, Harvard or scientist such as Alan Alagon, Layne Norton, etc..


Here are some studies or items that members tend to look for. Both are from the NIH. While both correlate that increasing red meat will increase the chances of cardio vascular disease or other issues, it doesn't confirm it's the cause. Many of these studies will write stuff such as:

"Since this was an observational study in which people reported their own food intake, it's possible that the associations seen may be due to other factors. When the researchers accounted for known risk factors in red meat—like saturated fat, dietary cholesterol and iron—they still couldn't account for all of the risk associated with eating red meat. Other mechanisms may be involved, or other unknown factors may affect the results. Further study will be needed to fully understand the connection between red meat consumption and health."

So keep in mind, that correlation =/= causation. But more importantly, it's vary ambiguous to how they define increasing consumption of red meat. It also doesn't mention if it's all red meat or other types (processed vs unprocess; lean vs high fat). In fact, if you look at my previous post on fats, Harvard concluded:

Although the different types of fat have a varied—and admittedly confusing—effect on health and disease, the basic message is simple: Out with the bad, in with the good. You can do this by choosing foods with healthy fats, limiting foods that are high in saturated fat, and avoiding trans fat. Here’s how to make it happen:
1. Eliminate trans fats from partially hydrogenated oils.
2. Limit your intake of saturated fats by cutting back on red meat and full-fat dairy foods
3. In place of butter, use liquid vegetable oils rich in polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats, in cooking and at the table
4. Eat one or more good sources of omega-3 fats every day.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22412075

http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/march2012/03262012meat.htm


So I would think that none of us are suggesting eating red meat daily, we are more against when people make blanket statements like " red meat is not healthy for u. animal protein is difficult for our bodies to break down and it is not meant for human consumption.. "

Essentially, it all comes down to eating a variety of food and eat red meat in moderation. And when you do eat red meat, try eat more lean cuts to reduce saturate fats. I will note, if you read up on saturate fats, there is still more research required on it.

WendyTerry420

again you're making things up... when did is state nutrition was my major? i majored in biochemistry & public health to become a physician's assistant but i switched careers to a different job in the healthy industry...

no eating red meat is not healthy, does not mean people who eat it are unhealthy because you can eat meat and still eat other plants and nutritious food

if you want a clear example of what im talking about look at Robin Quivers. She was diagnosed with endometrial cancer and maintained a vegan diet, as she had been for over 10 years. She also received chemo and some radiation and stated that HER OWN DOCTORS told her that her vegan diet is the likely reason she survived cancer and had no negative side effects from the chemotherapy(besides losing her hair)

so there you go a woman who was a vegan for over a decade who had no adverse effects to chemotherapy, which is pretty much unheard of,

she survived when the odds were she would die during surgery, or be stuck with a colostomy bag for the rest of her life

You skipped over the part where she got cancer in spite of her alleged "healthy diet."

firstsip

again you're making things up... when did is state nutrition was my major? i majored in biochemistry & public health to become a physician's assistant but i switched careers to a different job in the healthy industry...

no eating red meat is not healthy, does not mean people who eat it are unhealthy because you can eat meat and still eat other plants and nutritious food

if you want a clear example of what im talking about look at Robin Quivers. She was diagnosed with endometrial cancer and maintained a vegan diet, as she had been for over 10 years. She also received chemo and some radiation and stated that HER OWN DOCTORS told her that her vegan diet is the likely reason she survived cancer and had no negative side effects from the chemotherapy(besides losing her hair)

so there you go a woman who was a vegan for over a decade who had no adverse effects to chemotherapy, which is pretty much unheard of,

she survived when the odds were she would die during surgery, or be stuck with a colostomy bag for the rest of her life

You skipped over the part where she got cancer in spite of her alleged "healthy diet."

I'm also pretty certain Linda McCartney didn't have "chemotherapy" superpowers either before she died of, you know, cancer.

randomtai

yet again more people are attacking & insulting me when i just said that if you enjoy eating meat and you have a healthy lifestyle thats fine but keep going keep picking sentences out of paragraphs i write and analyzing them and telling me im wrong and im citing crap resources i dont care, all i said is i believe a vegan diet is the healthiest if you dont believe thats true good for you why do i care what you think none of you are me or live in my body.

Disagreement =/= attack. If people were attacking you, I would be giving a warning and remove them from this thread. What people expect are real studies.. not one person's success story. One person switching to vegan while having stage 4 and surviving doesn't mean vegan is a healthier lifestyle. If vegan was proven to be superior, then every cancer patient would have been switched to that diet years ago. Essentially, people are looking for non bias studies. You typically see these with studies done with the National Institute of Health, American Journal of Medicine, Harvard or scientist such as Alan Alagon, Layne Norton, etc..


Here are some studies or items that members tend to look for. Both are from the NIH. While both correlate that increasing red meat will increase the chances of cardio vascular disease or other issues, it doesn't confirm it's the cause. Many of these studies will write stuff such as:

"Since this was an observational study in which people reported their own food intake, it's possible that the associations seen may be due to other factors. When the researchers accounted for known risk factors in red meat—like saturated fat, dietary cholesterol and iron—they still couldn't account for all of the risk associated with eating red meat. Other mechanisms may be involved, or other unknown factors may affect the results. Further study will be needed to fully understand the connection between red meat consumption and health."

So keep in mind, that correlation =/= causation. But more importantly, it's vary ambiguous to how they define increasing consumption of red meat. It also doesn't mention if it's all red meat or other types (processed vs unprocess; lean vs high fat). In fact, if you look at my previous post on fats, Harvard concluded:

Although the different types of fat have a varied—and admittedly confusing—effect on health and disease, the basic message is simple: Out with the bad, in with the good. You can do this by choosing foods with healthy fats, limiting foods that are high in saturated fat, and avoiding trans fat. Here’s how to make it happen:
1. Eliminate trans fats from partially hydrogenated oils.
2. Limit your intake of saturated fats by cutting back on red meat and full-fat dairy foods
3. In place of butter, use liquid vegetable oils rich in polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats, in cooking and at the table
4. Eat one or more good sources of omega-3 fats every day.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22412075

http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/march2012/03262012meat.htm


So I would think that none of us are suggesting eating red meat daily, we are more against when people make blanket statements like " red meat is not healthy for u. animal protein is difficult for our bodies to break down and it is not meant for human consumption.. "

Essentially, it all comes down to eating a variety of food and eat red meat in moderation. And when you do eat red meat, try eat more lean cuts to reduce saturate fats. I will note, if you read up on saturate fats, there is still more research required on it.

Boom! :flowerforyou:

jessigoct17

the cancer, which caused a tumor the size of a grapefruit to grow near her bladder, was a result of a lifetime of being overweight and unhealthy... shes been a vegan for almost 10 years but shes in her 60's and has been unhealthy and on medication and not exercising the majority of her life..

ChrisS30V

With so many other ways to die and so many other diseases that it's possible to contract, getting cancer from eating red meat is fairly low on my personal list of concerns. If you look hard enough, you can find information linking cancer to the consumption of just about every food you can imagine.

jessigoct17

never said eating red meat caused cancer i said i believe the healthiest way to eat is being a vegan and many ppl have survived cancer and having a vegan diet is a big reason for that

psuLemon

never said eating red meat caused cancer i said i believe the healthiest way to eat is being a vegan and many ppl have survived cancer and having a vegan diet is a big reason for that

If the people didn't have any type of medicine or chemo, you might be able to make the presumption, but for the most part, people say it's the vegan diet even though they get chemo and take lots of medicine. This is why we are suggesting correlation =/= causation. Keep in mind, we aren't saying that it isn't beneficial or eat a lot of fruits and veggies aren't contributing, we are just saying for every case there was a person who turned vegan and beat cancer, there is a similar case of someone who beat cancer while maintaining a meat diet. In fact, 3 people in my family personally fit in the latter category.

Safiyandi

I hate to say it but citing Stanislaw Burzynski as a basis for your beliefs does do a number on your credibility. =\ He has been in the news a lot lately because he is a terrible person and a worse doctor.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/11/11/the-fda-reports-on-its-investigation-of-the-burzynski-clinic-and-burzynski-research-institute/



Eating lots of whole foods is awesome for you. Nobody is denying that. But claiming that we weren't meant to eat red meat is simply unfounded.



e: while we're at it, Forks Over Knives and the like is another pet peeve of mine. They use anecdotal evidence to promote the idea that treating cancer with a plant-based diet is a good idea, AS A REPLACEMENT for chemo. No. No no no no no. That is so terrible. It may discourage cancer sufferers from receiving adequate medical care. They imply that cancer is a choice based on lifestyle, and thus, those who suffer from cancer are responsible for their own disease. It is so wrong I can't even.

judswi

I eat red meat all the time.

jessigoct17

i guess a big reason im against chemo is because it doesnt "cure cancer" it kills all of your cells hoping that the cancer cells get killed to.. we are so advanced that i would think that people with cancer would have a better option then chemotherapy & radiation which is ancient

krazyforyou

I love and eat red meat as often as I want. If you are Vegan with low iron simply look for other iron rich food sources and take an over the counter iron tablet daily. Its that simple.