So you want a nice stomach
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Sorry if it sounded rude to you. But tell me what did you think your 4 kilo gain was if you said your bodyfat went down in the same sentence? It can only be muscle or fluid retention from glycogen.0
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stevencloser wrote: »Sorry if it sounded rude to you. But tell me what did you think your 4 kilo gain was if you said your bodyfat went down in the same sentence? It can only be muscle or fluid retention from glycogen.
I suppose those two you stated.
I can't say, 4 kilo of muscle would sound ridiculous in 5 weeks, however I wouldn't know what to think as I am in the middle of hormone replacement therapy as well.
It's confusing because, as you said, 19.7% of 59 is about the same as 17.7% of 63.
So if my fat mass in kg stayed the same, what are those 4 kgs indeed then, if they can't be muscle..
Obviously I myself have a lot of questions, otherwise I wouldn't come digging around on forums.
I'm guessing I didn't think my arguements through enough and they've been invalidated.
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governatorkp wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »
Here's what I mean;
I'm not a chemistry expert, I'm not a dietician or food consulent.
I cannot argue with you about what you claim to be facts.
However I have my own experiences.
Let's look at these right here. Cutting out all your personal stuff and getting down to facts.
The average sumo wrestler eats 10,000-20,000 calories per day. The average sumo wrestler skips breakfast to try to be as hungry as possible for lunch. Lunch is often 5,000-10,000 calories (depending on training level and how much they have to gain or maintain). After lunch they are so full they take a nap, then wake up to train for three hours. After training they have a second meal of 5,000-10,000 calories. It's also not told that many will snack during food prep or between meals, but the traditional wrestlers do not count those as meals or food eaten since they are not seated at a table. Do you think the average man could eat 10,000 calories across the day and not gain fat?
http://www.banzuke.com/00-4/msg00060.html
I take issue with the "average overweight person" graph because there is no set standard to an average person. I became obese eating 7 meals per day.
Here are some studies on meal timing:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20339363
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17413096
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15452402
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16450542
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029094
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17909674
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3508745
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9040548
Here's one on blood glucose:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405701
Here are some studies on "starvation mode":
http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/BJN/BJN71_03/S0007114594002151a.pdf&code=97abffefc12eb742c3e652438a6bb5dd
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3661473
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405717
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/108372921 -
governatorkp wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sorry if it sounded rude to you. But tell me what did you think your 4 kilo gain was if you said your bodyfat went down in the same sentence? It can only be muscle or fluid retention from glycogen.
I suppose those two you stated.
I can't say, 4 kilo of muscle would sound ridiculous in 5 weeks, however I wouldn't know what to think as I am in the middle of hormone replacement therapy as well.
It's confusing because, as you said, 19.7% of 59 is about the same as 17.7% of 63.
So if my fat mass in kg stayed the same, what are those 4 kgs indeed then, if they can't be muscle..
Obviously I myself have a lot of questions, otherwise I wouldn't come digging around on forums.
I'm guessing I didn't think my arguements through enough and they've been invalidated.
Did you start strength training? Come off a restrictive diet? Add creatine? You say hormone replacement therapy, but not specifically what the regimen is. Those can all increase water weight, which would make all body fat measurement methods show a lean mass increase (since water is counted as lean mass).0 -
Drink plenty of water, try tummy exercise and maintain your food taking .. try not to stay calm at all keep moving in your placedncing is an amazing way to lose fat0
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Did you start strength training? Come off a restrictive diet? Add creatine? You say hormone replacement therapy, but not specifically what the regimen is. Those can all increase water weight, which would make all body fat measurement methods show a lean mass increase (since water is counted as lean mass).
The only thing I've changed since March (When I weighed 59 kg) is nutrition.
Hormone replacement therapy started in February, which is simply a 1g Testosterone injection every 3 months.
I'm still doing the same HIIT workout in the same frequency.
It lasts about 45-60 minutes, burning around 400-500 kcal.
Working out 6 days out of 7, fairly sedentary rest of the day.
I upped my calorie intake from 1600 to 2500 (gaining those 4 kgs), now 2800.
As for supplements, I don't take creatine.
Though I've been using BCAA and L-Carnitin, however I already used those weighing 59kg.
You talk about water weight, but isn't 4kgs of 'water' rather.. much?
Numbers are one thing, but in those 5 weeks I see a significant change in the mirror which makes me think it can't be 4kgs of fat, or water, or only those two.
Clothing still fits perfectly (I'm assuming gaining 4 kgs of fat/water would be noticeable in clothing?)
I'm looking more muscular, mostly in back, arms and upper abs/obliques.
Measurements with tape in those regions tell an increase.
Any idea?
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governatorkp wrote: »Did you start strength training? Come off a restrictive diet? Add creatine? You say hormone replacement therapy, but not specifically what the regimen is. Those can all increase water weight, which would make all body fat measurement methods show a lean mass increase (since water is counted as lean mass).
The only thing I've changed since March (When I weighed 59 kg) is nutrition.
Hormone replacement therapy started in February, which is simply a 1g Testosterone injection every 3 months.
I'm still doing the same HIIT workout in the same frequency.
It lasts about 45-60 minutes, burning around 400-500 kcal.
Working out 6 days out of 7, fairly sedentary rest of the day.
I upped my calorie intake from 1600 to 2500 (gaining those 4 kgs), now 2800.
As for supplements, I don't take creatine.
Though I've been using BCAA and L-Carnitin, however I already used those weighing 59kg.
You talk about water weight, but isn't 4kgs of 'water' rather.. much?
Numbers are one thing, but in those 5 weeks I see a significant change in the mirror which makes me think it can't be 4kgs of fat, or water, or only those two.
Clothing still fits perfectly (I'm assuming gaining 4 kgs of fat/water would be noticeable in clothing?)
I'm looking more muscular, mostly in back, arms and upper abs/obliques.
Measurements with tape in those regions tell an increase.
Any idea?
You may have gained .5 kg of muscle, but it's very possible to gain 4 kgs of water and not have it noticeable. I gained 4.5 kg of water weight in the first week after my last bodybuilding competition. My clothes still fit the same and my muscles looked a bit fuller. I didn't look any fatter.
The average woman only gains .45 kg of muscle per month. They can gain .68 kg in a really really good month. If the testosterone is simply bringing your test levels up to a normal woman's levels your gains would be in line with the average. If the testosterone is in addition to a normal test level you could be gaining more, but still not 4 kgs worth. If your levels were low (which is what replacement indicates) then you are most likely regaining lean mass you lost previously, but you still gained mostly water with a little bit of fat.0 -
You may have gained .5 kg of muscle, but it's very possible to gain 4 kgs of water and not have it noticeable. I gained 4.5 kg of water weight in the first week after my last bodybuilding competition. My clothes still fit the same and my muscles looked a bit fuller. I didn't look any fatter.
The average woman only gains .45 kg of muscle per month. They can gain .68 kg in a really really good month. If the testosterone is simply bringing your test levels up to a normal woman's levels your gains would be in line with the average. If the testosterone is in addition to a normal test level you could be gaining more, but still not 4 kgs worth. If your levels were low (which is what replacement indicates) then you are most likely regaining lean mass you lost previously, but you still gained mostly water with a little bit of fat.
Thanks for taking your time to actually analyze my situation and give useful information.
To clarify, the testosterone is about cross-sex hormone treatment.
What would your advice be on lowering body fat then?
If looking at the OP, that would be simply creating a calorie deficit while remaining to do the same exercise?
Also, what method of calculating caloric need would you recommend?
I've been using the Harris Benedict Equation.
My BMR is 1650 for men. (1480 for women)
Excercising 6 times a week would put me in the Moderate-Heavy exercise rank, meaning
Moderate:
1650 x1.55 = 2557
1480 x1.55 = 2294
Heavy:
1650 x1.725 = 2846
1480 x1.725 = 2553
Which number would you recommend calculating a deficit on?
+ Is it even needed to create a deficit since the workouts burn about 400-500 kcal?
If not, and the deficit exercise creates is okay, should I eat part of the deficit back or is 500kcal okay?
+ On rest day (as I said I work out 6 out of 7 days) does that mean I should less (as I don't have the energy burn of the workout)?
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For some reason it double-posted my comment.
As it seems to not be possible to remove a comment,
I'm clarifying this useless edited post..
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governatorkp wrote: »You may have gained .5 kg of muscle, but it's very possible to gain 4 kgs of water and not have it noticeable. I gained 4.5 kg of water weight in the first week after my last bodybuilding competition. My clothes still fit the same and my muscles looked a bit fuller. I didn't look any fatter.
The average woman only gains .45 kg of muscle per month. They can gain .68 kg in a really really good month. If the testosterone is simply bringing your test levels up to a normal woman's levels your gains would be in line with the average. If the testosterone is in addition to a normal test level you could be gaining more, but still not 4 kgs worth. If your levels were low (which is what replacement indicates) then you are most likely regaining lean mass you lost previously, but you still gained mostly water with a little bit of fat.
Thanks for taking your time to actually analyze my situation and give useful information.
To clarify, the testosterone is about cross-sex hormone treatment.
What would your advice be on lowering body fat then?
If looking at the OP, that would be simply creating a calorie deficit while remaining to do the same exercise?
Also, what method of calculating caloric need would you recommend?
I've been using the Harris Benedict Equation.
My BMR is 1650 for men. (1480 for women)
Excercising 6 times a week would put me in the Moderate-Heavy exercise rank, meaning
Moderate:
1650 x1.55 = 2557
1480 x1.55 = 2294
Heavy:
1650 x1.725 = 2846
1480 x1.725 = 2553
Which number would you recommend calculating a deficit on?
+ Is it even needed to create a deficit since the workouts burn about 400-500 kcal?
If not, and the deficit exercise creates is okay, should I eat part of the deficit back or is 500kcal okay?
+ On rest day (as I said I work out 6 out of 7 days) does that mean I should less (as I don't have the energy burn of the workout)?
Your circumstances are unique and calculators are not going to work for you. Most of what you are going to face is different simply due to biological and interventional variables. Sorry I made assumptions on your situation prior on the need for hormone replacement, I did not mean it as an insult, just based off your calorie intake and your hormone replacement comment.
You are finding yourself also in a situation where recomposition may be the best method. You would lower your HIIT to focus on mostly resistance training and progressive overload. It's harder to do that when you are focusing in increasing calorie burn through HIIT. Along with a program more focused on muscle gain you would need to experiment with calorie intake to maintain your body weight. Women traditionally have lower lean mass (due to biology requiring females maintain more body fat to support reproduction) and lower testosterone, while men naturally have higher lean mass and higher testosterone. That's the reason the calculators spit out different numbers with identical statistics when you change the gender.
From your current intake I would simply lower it week by week until you maintain weight. From there your goal is to keep your weight fairly constant while lifting to build lean mass. You will be slowly lowering body fat while adding muscle. I've talked about recomposition a few times through this post because as you were stating earlier, lean people require other methods than a deficit to increase lean mass while reducing body fat.0 -
I'll try out the things you've just suggested.
As for lowering my intake until weight stays stable, what dropping margin are we talking about?
You talked about creatin earlier, would it be of any use to add that supplementary (at this stage)?
Would you mind if I keep contacting you as time passes and I'm trying out your suggestions?
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governatorkp wrote: »
I'll try out the things you've just suggested.
As for lowering my intake until weight stays stable, what dropping margin are we talking about?
You talked about creatin earlier, would it be of any use to add that supplementary (at this stage)?
Would you mind if I keep contacting you as time passes and I'm trying out your suggestions?
Most people drop about 100 calories per week. I'm guessing your margin between current intake and TDEE isn't huge, so 100 calories the first couple of weeks and 50 after that just to try to get close to TDEE. Over time you may find you need to increase calories as you lose fat and add lean mass. Your NEAT and exercise activity may not always be constant, so weighing weekly and making adjustments after a few weeks of up or down trend is a good idea.
Creatine can help with recovery. It can also help with gym performance. You'll gain up to 3 kgs when you start taking it. It's cheap and I feel 5g daily of creatine monohydrate is well worth adding in as a supplement.
http://examine.com/supplements/Creatine/
Feel free to send me a private message whenever you have questions!0 -
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asflatasapancake wrote: »governatorkp wrote: »
I'll try out the things you've just suggested.
As for lowering my intake until weight stays stable, what dropping margin are we talking about?
You talked about creatin earlier, would it be of any use to add that supplementary (at this stage)?
Would you mind if I keep contacting you as time passes and I'm trying out your suggestions?
Most people drop about 100 calories per week. I'm guessing your margin between current intake and TDEE isn't huge, so 100 calories the first couple of weeks and 50 after that just to try to get close to TDEE. Over time you may find you need to increase calories as you lose fat and add lean mass. Your NEAT and exercise activity may not always be constant, so weighing weekly and making adjustments after a few weeks of up or down trend is a good idea.
Creatine can help with recovery. It can also help with gym performance. You'll gain up to 3 kgs when you start taking it. It's cheap and I feel 5g daily of creatine monohydrate is well worth adding in as a supplement.
http://examine.com/supplements/Creatine/
Feel free to send me a private message whenever you have questions!
I remember taking Creatine back when I was in college football to get the gainz. I gained a bit of weight and strength. Shortly after, the substance was banned by the NCAA. I looked recently, and it is no longer banned. Not sure Creatine really did all that much for me. I was lifting crazy and eating like a horse back then and feel I would've gained strength and size regardless. I'm starting to lift heavy again and am just doing protein powder for supplements this time. Not saying Creatine couldn't help some. Just not for me.
Creatine is natural, you get it in smaller doses from eating beef and fish. Some people have naturally higher capacity and natural ability to store creatine, so they don't see much of a difference in muscular endurance. Some protein powders contain creatine. It's not going to magically build more muscle, but it can aid in gym performance and recovery.0 -
can you suggest something to help lose belly and tone lightly for people with umbilical hernia?? I can't strain much or do situps
what else can I do? It's frustrating when I lose butt, hips,etc then my belly looks even bigger!! 
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amylynn194 wrote: »can you suggest something to help lose belly and tone lightly for people with umbilical hernia?? I can't strain much or do situps what else can I do? It's frustrating when I lose butt, hips,etc then my belly looks even bigger!!
You need surgery to fix that. Lifting weights is very important to body composition (looking toned) as well as your bone health as you age. If you can't even do body weight exercises (which all do cause straining) then your hernia is impacting your health negatively. Unfortunately no matter what you can't spot reduce your belly fat. It might be the last to go and you just have to accept that.
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amylynn194 wrote: »can you suggest something to help lose belly and tone lightly for people with umbilical hernia?? I can't strain much or do situps what else can I do? It's frustrating when I lose butt, hips,etc then my belly looks even bigger!!
As stated in the OP, you want OVERALL bodyfat reduction ( so, more lean/muscle mass, less fat) and not just myth-induced "ab" workouts.
For you? I'd say skip "ab" workouts. Just get strong. Do compound heavy lifts, eat a calorically-appropriate diet.
The whole point of the OP is that situps/crunches aren't necessary. I don't even understand where your question is coming from.
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HeySwoleSister wrote: »amylynn194 wrote: »can you suggest something to help lose belly and tone lightly for people with umbilical hernia?? I can't strain much or do situps what else can I do? It's frustrating when I lose butt, hips,etc then my belly looks even bigger!!
As stated in the OP, you want OVERALL bodyfat reduction ( so, more lean/muscle mass, less fat) and not just myth-induced "ab" workouts.
For you? I'd say skip "ab" workouts. Just get strong. Do compound heavy lifts, eat a calorically-appropriate diet.
The whole point of the OP is that situps/crunches aren't necessary. I don't even understand where your question is coming from.
She has a hernia near her belly button that makes any sort of straining a very bad thing. She needs to get that fixed, then of course start following the advice listed. You are correct that part of my point in all of this was that crunches are not necessary
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Awesome info! Thanks!!0
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Does drinking green tea help burn fat ?0
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First I'd like to thank you, usmcmp, both for your original post and the time you've put in since. The world is a better place because of the generosity of people like you.
After years of trial and error (and some trial and success!), I started another trial with a routine that is based on exactly the principles laid out in the original post. I have been getting good results. These techniques work.
The biggest challenge I've faced with this method is that my scale is now of no use as a tracking tool. My weight hasn't changed in well over a month, although my appearance has. Since this has never been about what the scale says, this doesn't bother me except that it's hard to track progress for me now. Not seeing measurable progress can get me discouraged and I think that can happen to a lot of us. I wanted to share what I'm doing to combat my natural tendency to get discouraged and quit.
I've just been measuring other things. Which things exactly probably doesn't mater. In my case, I've been watching the amount of weight and reps I can do go up. On the cardio side, I'm running faster for less heart rate. While this journey was 100% about my physical appearance to start, it's now much more about fitness. So I'm tracking the stuff I can track on the fitness side. I have faith that improved fitness will result in improved appearance.
I'm not saying you have to change what your journey is about like I have. That was just one way. The idea is to find something you can track that parallels what you can't track.
The second biggest challenge I've had and I'm still struggling with is eating enough to support this. For several months up until about a month ago I had been eating 1500 cal/day, which was to be a 700 cal deficit off my estimated TDEE of 2200. That worked for a while, and I got used to that amount of food. I wasn't factoring in exercise at that time. I figured, hell, bigger deficit, right? Well, it didn't really work out that way and I eventually stalled, at least scale-wise. Lucky for me I had been taking in enough "muscle insurance" (200g/day of protein) and it seemed I started re-comping a little bit (I can't say this with certainty; the evidence was I was getting stronger and staying the same weight). More research led me to understand I wasn't getting enough nutrition to support my exercise, and I was adding more exercise (progressing from 2 strength days to 3). I have arrived at a figure of 2850 cal/day (175g p, 105g f, 310g c) that factors in the amount of strength and cardio in my plan.
Every day I struggle to shovel that much food in. Part of it is psychological. I'm very worried about getting fatter. I understand that's not the reality; try telling that to my emotions. So that's making me just want to eat less to start with. Beyond that it just comes down to not being that hungry most of the time. I feel full and I still have calories to go.
My question is this: how much of a disservice am I doing to my progress on the days when I fail to eat enough?
--Rich
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seiffertrk wrote: »For several months up until about a month ago I had been eating 1500 cal/day, which was to be a 700 cal deficit off my estimated TDEE of 2200. That worked for a while, and I got used to that amount of food. I wasn't factoring in exercise at that time. I figured, hell, bigger deficit, right?
I have arrived at a figure of 2850 cal/day (175g p, 105g f, 310g c) that factors in the amount of strength and cardio in my plan.
My question is this: how much of a disservice am I doing to my progress on the days when I fail to eat enough?
You said your TDEE was estimated at 2200, but now you are eating 2850? I'm guessing you either estimated your original TDEE without exercise, which would be inaccurate since TDEE includes exercise calories, or you are bulking. Without knowing your stats I'm not sure what your approximate TDEE is. I'm also not sure if you are bulking, cutting or attempting a recomposition.
For your question:
A few days here and there are not going to create a very big impact no matter what your goals are. Consistently being low on a bulk means it will take longer to build the lean mass, on a cut means you could start losing lean mass, on a recomp means you'll lose fat faster and build lean mass slower.
If you want more specific help I'll need your stats and goals. I'd also need to know what kind of lifting program you are doing.0 -
Great thread0
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seiffertrk wrote: »For several months up until about a month ago I had been eating 1500 cal/day, which was to be a 700 cal deficit off my estimated TDEE of 2200. That worked for a while, and I got used to that amount of food. I wasn't factoring in exercise at that time. I figured, hell, bigger deficit, right?
I have arrived at a figure of 2850 cal/day (175g p, 105g f, 310g c) that factors in the amount of strength and cardio in my plan.
My question is this: how much of a disservice am I doing to my progress on the days when I fail to eat enough?
You said your TDEE was estimated at 2200, but now you are eating 2850? I'm guessing you either estimated your original TDEE without exercise, which would be inaccurate since TDEE includes exercise calories, or you are bulking. Without knowing your stats I'm not sure what your approximate TDEE is. I'm also not sure if you are bulking, cutting or attempting a recomposition.
For your question:
A few days here and there are not going to create a very big impact no matter what your goals are. Consistently being low on a bulk means it will take longer to build the lean mass, on a cut means you could start losing lean mass, on a recomp means you'll lose fat faster and build lean mass slower.
If you want more specific help I'll need your stats and goals. I'd also need to know what kind of lifting program you are doing.
The original TDEE was calculated without factoring in exercise. The exercise ramped up slowly and I never went back to recalculate it. Anyway, in the past now.
I'm a 45 year old 5'-8" male currently averaging 200 lbs (+/- 3-5 lbs) at an estimated 32% body fat. I came to the current figures using the math from the book "The Lean Muscle Diet" by Men's Health guys Lou Schuler and Alan Aragon. The book and your 5-point bullet list say the same thing. Their math factors in exercise, daily activity level (a multiplier), current lean mass and target lean mass and body fat percentage. Also factored in are two rates: the rate at which you're trying to lose body fat % and the rate at which you're trying to add lean mass. I chose conservative rates from their ranges (although they sound aggressive to me): 1.5 lb of lean mass per month, 2.5% BF reduction per month. Clearly those goals fall under recomposition.
Turning the crank on all that yields 2850 cals with 175g of protein minimum. There is wiggle room on how much of the remainder comes from fat and carbs. I took a middle of the road approach. As long as I get enough protein I don't sweat the exact breakdown of the other two. According to the book and the math, if I eat right and do the exercise, in 6 months I will have added 9 lbs of lean mass, lost 33 lbs of fat, and will be 175 lbs at 17.5% BF. I'm not expecting it to be that exact obviously, but that's the target. It still seems aggressive.
For exercise I factored in 3 hours of strength and 2.5 hours of cardio weekly. Cardio used to be just elliptical, 30 mins x 5 days. I'm getting into running a little now that the weather is nice, but it's still working out to about the same amount of time, but a lot more random day to day depending on where and how far I run.
I'm following the strength program from the book. Each of the 3 workout days are broken down into core, primary and complementary exercises. Core includes plank, side plank, dead bug, mcgill curlup. Primary exercises: day 1: squat, bench, dumbbell 3-point row (all 4 sets x 6 reps), day 2: deadlift, shoulder press, inverted row (all 3 sets x 8-10 reps), day 3: step up (2 sets x 10-12 reps), T pushup (max), inverted row (max). Complementary exercises: day 1: glute bridge, pike pushup, pulldown, day 2: lunge, pushup, cable row, day 3: farmer's walk, biceps curl, triceps extension. All the complementaries are less sets with higher reps.
I'm in the third week of that program (MWF). So far I have progressed on almost every exercise each week.
During that time I've been trying to hit the calorie goal. I just looked back over my diary, and some (not most) days I hit it. Most days I ended up shorting by 200-750 calories. The important thing is that during this time my clothes have not gotten any tighter, so the extra food is not causing me to gain fat. That makes me feel good about the calorie goal being reasonably on point. Perhaps my body is trying to tell me the right number is more like 2400 or so.
I should add that I have a smoothie before and after each strength session. These consist of whey powder, milk, and fruit which always includes banana. They're around 400 cals and provide at least 24g of protein. These seem to be helping a lot.
Before this I completed a 3 month strength program (from another book) which had similar exercises and a full body focus but with less exercises and volume. It was only 2 workout days per week (but I was fatter and weaker then!).
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question!
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seiffertrk wrote: »seiffertrk wrote: »For several months up until about a month ago I had been eating 1500 cal/day, which was to be a 700 cal deficit off my estimated TDEE of 2200. That worked for a while, and I got used to that amount of food. I wasn't factoring in exercise at that time. I figured, hell, bigger deficit, right?
I have arrived at a figure of 2850 cal/day (175g p, 105g f, 310g c) that factors in the amount of strength and cardio in my plan.
My question is this: how much of a disservice am I doing to my progress on the days when I fail to eat enough?
You said your TDEE was estimated at 2200, but now you are eating 2850? I'm guessing you either estimated your original TDEE without exercise, which would be inaccurate since TDEE includes exercise calories, or you are bulking. Without knowing your stats I'm not sure what your approximate TDEE is. I'm also not sure if you are bulking, cutting or attempting a recomposition.
For your question:
A few days here and there are not going to create a very big impact no matter what your goals are. Consistently being low on a bulk means it will take longer to build the lean mass, on a cut means you could start losing lean mass, on a recomp means you'll lose fat faster and build lean mass slower.
If you want more specific help I'll need your stats and goals. I'd also need to know what kind of lifting program you are doing.
The original TDEE was calculated without factoring in exercise. The exercise ramped up slowly and I never went back to recalculate it. Anyway, in the past now.
I'm a 45 year old 5'-8" male currently averaging 200 lbs (+/- 3-5 lbs) at an estimated 32% body fat. I came to the current figures using the math from the book "The Lean Muscle Diet" by Men's Health guys Lou Schuler and Alan Aragon. The book and your 5-point bullet list say the same thing. Their math factors in exercise, daily activity level (a multiplier), current lean mass and target lean mass and body fat percentage. Also factored in are two rates: the rate at which you're trying to lose body fat % and the rate at which you're trying to add lean mass. I chose conservative rates from their ranges (although they sound aggressive to me): 1.5 lb of lean mass per month, 2.5% BF reduction per month. Clearly those goals fall under recomposition.
Turning the crank on all that yields 2850 cals with 175g of protein minimum. There is wiggle room on how much of the remainder comes from fat and carbs. I took a middle of the road approach. As long as I get enough protein I don't sweat the exact breakdown of the other two. According to the book and the math, if I eat right and do the exercise, in 6 months I will have added 9 lbs of lean mass, lost 33 lbs of fat, and will be 175 lbs at 17.5% BF. I'm not expecting it to be that exact obviously, but that's the target. It still seems aggressive.
For exercise I factored in 3 hours of strength and 2.5 hours of cardio weekly. Cardio used to be just elliptical, 30 mins x 5 days. I'm getting into running a little now that the weather is nice, but it's still working out to about the same amount of time, but a lot more random day to day depending on where and how far I run.
I'm following the strength program from the book. Each of the 3 workout days are broken down into core, primary and complementary exercises. Core includes plank, side plank, dead bug, mcgill curlup. Primary exercises: day 1: squat, bench, dumbbell 3-point row (all 4 sets x 6 reps), day 2: deadlift, shoulder press, inverted row (all 3 sets x 8-10 reps), day 3: step up (2 sets x 10-12 reps), T pushup (max), inverted row (max). Complementary exercises: day 1: glute bridge, pike pushup, pulldown, day 2: lunge, pushup, cable row, day 3: farmer's walk, biceps curl, triceps extension. All the complementaries are less sets with higher reps.
I'm in the third week of that program (MWF). So far I have progressed on almost every exercise each week.
During that time I've been trying to hit the calorie goal. I just looked back over my diary, and some (not most) days I hit it. Most days I ended up shorting by 200-750 calories. The important thing is that during this time my clothes have not gotten any tighter, so the extra food is not causing me to gain fat. That makes me feel good about the calorie goal being reasonably on point. Perhaps my body is trying to tell me the right number is more like 2400 or so.
I should add that I have a smoothie before and after each strength session. These consist of whey powder, milk, and fruit which always includes banana. They're around 400 cals and provide at least 24g of protein. These seem to be helping a lot.
Before this I completed a 3 month strength program (from another book) which had similar exercises and a full body focus but with less exercises and volume. It was only 2 workout days per week (but I was fatter and weaker then!).
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question!
I've calculated your TDEE at about 2400. You've only been at it three weeks and you aren't hitting the 2800, so you might be averaging around what your TDEE is. I know that Alan is very knowledgeable and provides solid information, but my guess is that you some how picked the wrong multiplier (he usually has multiple formulas to accommodate for age and general activity level outside of workouts).
The good news is that you probably haven't gained fat, the bad news is if you ate 2800 calories consistently you would not reach the fat loss and muscle gain projections you calculated at the end of 6 months. Seeing that you are newer to lifting you can gain lean mass in a deficit, but a projected 9 pound lean mass gain in 6 months is just not going to happen. Losing 33 pounds in 6 months would require an intake of about 700 calories less than your TDEE.
There is nothing wrong with eating at about your TDEE while lifting. You will lose some fat and gain some lean mass. This is a fairly slow process, but it allows you a decent number of calories and capitalizes on new lifter gains.0 -
seiffertrk wrote: »seiffertrk wrote: »For several months up until about a month ago I had been eating 1500 cal/day, which was to be a 700 cal deficit off my estimated TDEE of 2200. That worked for a while, and I got used to that amount of food. I wasn't factoring in exercise at that time. I figured, hell, bigger deficit, right?
I have arrived at a figure of 2850 cal/day (175g p, 105g f, 310g c) that factors in the amount of strength and cardio in my plan.
My question is this: how much of a disservice am I doing to my progress on the days when I fail to eat enough?
You said your TDEE was estimated at 2200, but now you are eating 2850? I'm guessing you either estimated your original TDEE without exercise, which would be inaccurate since TDEE includes exercise calories, or you are bulking. Without knowing your stats I'm not sure what your approximate TDEE is. I'm also not sure if you are bulking, cutting or attempting a recomposition.
For your question:
A few days here and there are not going to create a very big impact no matter what your goals are. Consistently being low on a bulk means it will take longer to build the lean mass, on a cut means you could start losing lean mass, on a recomp means you'll lose fat faster and build lean mass slower.
If you want more specific help I'll need your stats and goals. I'd also need to know what kind of lifting program you are doing.
The original TDEE was calculated without factoring in exercise. The exercise ramped up slowly and I never went back to recalculate it. Anyway, in the past now.
I'm a 45 year old 5'-8" male currently averaging 200 lbs (+/- 3-5 lbs) at an estimated 32% body fat. I came to the current figures using the math from the book "The Lean Muscle Diet" by Men's Health guys Lou Schuler and Alan Aragon. The book and your 5-point bullet list say the same thing. Their math factors in exercise, daily activity level (a multiplier), current lean mass and target lean mass and body fat percentage. Also factored in are two rates: the rate at which you're trying to lose body fat % and the rate at which you're trying to add lean mass. I chose conservative rates from their ranges (although they sound aggressive to me): 1.5 lb of lean mass per month, 2.5% BF reduction per month. Clearly those goals fall under recomposition.
Turning the crank on all that yields 2850 cals with 175g of protein minimum. There is wiggle room on how much of the remainder comes from fat and carbs. I took a middle of the road approach. As long as I get enough protein I don't sweat the exact breakdown of the other two. According to the book and the math, if I eat right and do the exercise, in 6 months I will have added 9 lbs of lean mass, lost 33 lbs of fat, and will be 175 lbs at 17.5% BF. I'm not expecting it to be that exact obviously, but that's the target. It still seems aggressive.
For exercise I factored in 3 hours of strength and 2.5 hours of cardio weekly. Cardio used to be just elliptical, 30 mins x 5 days. I'm getting into running a little now that the weather is nice, but it's still working out to about the same amount of time, but a lot more random day to day depending on where and how far I run.
I'm following the strength program from the book. Each of the 3 workout days are broken down into core, primary and complementary exercises. Core includes plank, side plank, dead bug, mcgill curlup. Primary exercises: day 1: squat, bench, dumbbell 3-point row (all 4 sets x 6 reps), day 2: deadlift, shoulder press, inverted row (all 3 sets x 8-10 reps), day 3: step up (2 sets x 10-12 reps), T pushup (max), inverted row (max). Complementary exercises: day 1: glute bridge, pike pushup, pulldown, day 2: lunge, pushup, cable row, day 3: farmer's walk, biceps curl, triceps extension. All the complementaries are less sets with higher reps.
I'm in the third week of that program (MWF). So far I have progressed on almost every exercise each week.
During that time I've been trying to hit the calorie goal. I just looked back over my diary, and some (not most) days I hit it. Most days I ended up shorting by 200-750 calories. The important thing is that during this time my clothes have not gotten any tighter, so the extra food is not causing me to gain fat. That makes me feel good about the calorie goal being reasonably on point. Perhaps my body is trying to tell me the right number is more like 2400 or so.
I should add that I have a smoothie before and after each strength session. These consist of whey powder, milk, and fruit which always includes banana. They're around 400 cals and provide at least 24g of protein. These seem to be helping a lot.
Before this I completed a 3 month strength program (from another book) which had similar exercises and a full body focus but with less exercises and volume. It was only 2 workout days per week (but I was fatter and weaker then!).
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question!
I've calculated your TDEE at about 2400. You've only been at it three weeks and you aren't hitting the 2800, so you might be averaging around what your TDEE is. I know that Alan is very knowledgeable and provides solid information, but my guess is that you some how picked the wrong multiplier (he usually has multiple formulas to accommodate for age and general activity level outside of workouts).
The good news is that you probably haven't gained fat, the bad news is if you ate 2800 calories consistently you would not reach the fat loss and muscle gain projections you calculated at the end of 6 months. Seeing that you are newer to lifting you can gain lean mass in a deficit, but a projected 9 pound lean mass gain in 6 months is just not going to happen. Losing 33 pounds in 6 months would require an intake of about 700 calories less than your TDEE.
There is nothing wrong with eating at about your TDEE while lifting. You will lose some fat and gain some lean mass. This is a fairly slow process, but it allows you a decent number of calories and capitalizes on new lifter gains.
Is the 9 lb lean mass gain in 6 months not going to happen because I'm targeting a deficit, or it's just not reasonable for anyone to expect?
I reworked the numbers using Alan's lowest multiplier and dropped the lean mass gain to 0.5 lb/month. It still comes up with 2400 calories. It has always seemed high to me.
Dropping the fat is my main goal. It would be great to add some muscle at the same time. Put a better way, it would be great to target some muscle gain as insurance against losing any muscle if things don't go perfectly. If you were me, what would you target for calories?0 -
seiffertrk wrote: »seiffertrk wrote: »seiffertrk wrote: »For several months up until about a month ago I had been eating 1500 cal/day, which was to be a 700 cal deficit off my estimated TDEE of 2200. That worked for a while, and I got used to that amount of food. I wasn't factoring in exercise at that time. I figured, hell, bigger deficit, right?
I have arrived at a figure of 2850 cal/day (175g p, 105g f, 310g c) that factors in the amount of strength and cardio in my plan.
My question is this: how much of a disservice am I doing to my progress on the days when I fail to eat enough?
You said your TDEE was estimated at 2200, but now you are eating 2850? I'm guessing you either estimated your original TDEE without exercise, which would be inaccurate since TDEE includes exercise calories, or you are bulking. Without knowing your stats I'm not sure what your approximate TDEE is. I'm also not sure if you are bulking, cutting or attempting a recomposition.
For your question:
A few days here and there are not going to create a very big impact no matter what your goals are. Consistently being low on a bulk means it will take longer to build the lean mass, on a cut means you could start losing lean mass, on a recomp means you'll lose fat faster and build lean mass slower.
If you want more specific help I'll need your stats and goals. I'd also need to know what kind of lifting program you are doing.
The original TDEE was calculated without factoring in exercise. The exercise ramped up slowly and I never went back to recalculate it. Anyway, in the past now.
I'm a 45 year old 5'-8" male currently averaging 200 lbs (+/- 3-5 lbs) at an estimated 32% body fat. I came to the current figures using the math from the book "The Lean Muscle Diet" by Men's Health guys Lou Schuler and Alan Aragon. The book and your 5-point bullet list say the same thing. Their math factors in exercise, daily activity level (a multiplier), current lean mass and target lean mass and body fat percentage. Also factored in are two rates: the rate at which you're trying to lose body fat % and the rate at which you're trying to add lean mass. I chose conservative rates from their ranges (although they sound aggressive to me): 1.5 lb of lean mass per month, 2.5% BF reduction per month. Clearly those goals fall under recomposition.
Turning the crank on all that yields 2850 cals with 175g of protein minimum. There is wiggle room on how much of the remainder comes from fat and carbs. I took a middle of the road approach. As long as I get enough protein I don't sweat the exact breakdown of the other two. According to the book and the math, if I eat right and do the exercise, in 6 months I will have added 9 lbs of lean mass, lost 33 lbs of fat, and will be 175 lbs at 17.5% BF. I'm not expecting it to be that exact obviously, but that's the target. It still seems aggressive.
For exercise I factored in 3 hours of strength and 2.5 hours of cardio weekly. Cardio used to be just elliptical, 30 mins x 5 days. I'm getting into running a little now that the weather is nice, but it's still working out to about the same amount of time, but a lot more random day to day depending on where and how far I run.
I'm following the strength program from the book. Each of the 3 workout days are broken down into core, primary and complementary exercises. Core includes plank, side plank, dead bug, mcgill curlup. Primary exercises: day 1: squat, bench, dumbbell 3-point row (all 4 sets x 6 reps), day 2: deadlift, shoulder press, inverted row (all 3 sets x 8-10 reps), day 3: step up (2 sets x 10-12 reps), T pushup (max), inverted row (max). Complementary exercises: day 1: glute bridge, pike pushup, pulldown, day 2: lunge, pushup, cable row, day 3: farmer's walk, biceps curl, triceps extension. All the complementaries are less sets with higher reps.
I'm in the third week of that program (MWF). So far I have progressed on almost every exercise each week.
During that time I've been trying to hit the calorie goal. I just looked back over my diary, and some (not most) days I hit it. Most days I ended up shorting by 200-750 calories. The important thing is that during this time my clothes have not gotten any tighter, so the extra food is not causing me to gain fat. That makes me feel good about the calorie goal being reasonably on point. Perhaps my body is trying to tell me the right number is more like 2400 or so.
I should add that I have a smoothie before and after each strength session. These consist of whey powder, milk, and fruit which always includes banana. They're around 400 cals and provide at least 24g of protein. These seem to be helping a lot.
Before this I completed a 3 month strength program (from another book) which had similar exercises and a full body focus but with less exercises and volume. It was only 2 workout days per week (but I was fatter and weaker then!).
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question!
I've calculated your TDEE at about 2400. You've only been at it three weeks and you aren't hitting the 2800, so you might be averaging around what your TDEE is. I know that Alan is very knowledgeable and provides solid information, but my guess is that you some how picked the wrong multiplier (he usually has multiple formulas to accommodate for age and general activity level outside of workouts).
The good news is that you probably haven't gained fat, the bad news is if you ate 2800 calories consistently you would not reach the fat loss and muscle gain projections you calculated at the end of 6 months. Seeing that you are newer to lifting you can gain lean mass in a deficit, but a projected 9 pound lean mass gain in 6 months is just not going to happen. Losing 33 pounds in 6 months would require an intake of about 700 calories less than your TDEE.
There is nothing wrong with eating at about your TDEE while lifting. You will lose some fat and gain some lean mass. This is a fairly slow process, but it allows you a decent number of calories and capitalizes on new lifter gains.
Is the 9 lb lean mass gain in 6 months not going to happen because I'm targeting a deficit, or it's just not reasonable for anyone to expect?
I reworked the numbers using Alan's lowest multiplier and dropped the lean mass gain to 0.5 lb/month. It still comes up with 2400 calories. It has always seemed high to me.
Dropping the fat is my main goal. It would be great to add some muscle at the same time. Put a better way, it would be great to target some muscle gain as insurance against losing any muscle if things don't go perfectly. If you were me, what would you target for calories?
The average male at the peak of testosterone and a year or so into training will gain about 2 pounds of lean mass while bulking every month. If you are not bulking and considering your age, you will not gain 1.5 pounds of lean mass per month. No matter how spot on your nutrition and lifting are. Also, gaining strength does not mean you are gaining lean mass.0 -
What I find more funny than anything is the fact you have the usmc title in your name and you know damn well you wouldn't have anywhere close to the body you have now without all the fun cardio they made you do.
Other than that, two thumbs up.
LOL. Wrong dude is wrong.
Haha it's okay. It's easy to assume that someone who is a veteran stayed in great shape. Nope, I got fat and I hate running. I'll blame breaking my pelvis and ankle, but I just really like eating.
This - When I got injured and left the service I continued eating a 5k calorie diet, but skipped the exercise and became a fatty. I forgot how much I love running and swimming.0 -
What is the best workout for Tummy toning?!0
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