Help me decide: cut further then bulk or recomp now

Huffdogg

I am within a couple of pounds of my goal weight (currently 203 shooting to compete at 198), but I'm finding myself still around 17% body fat. I'd hoped to get down to at least 12 and try to hold around there, but I'm also really hoping to seriously pursue my strength goals so I don't particularly want to keep cutting too terribly long. So now I'm torn. I can't decide if it's better to keep cutting down to around 12% and then go into a slow bulk, or just stop at around 195-198 and start trying to do a much slower recomp. Any input from anyone who has gone through a similar process would be greatly appreciated.

MrGonzo05

You'll be happier with your long term results by following bulk and cut cycles.

However, I wouldn't consider bulking at 17% body fat. You still have too much fat to consider gaining any more.

SideSteel

I am within a couple of pounds of my goal weight (currently 203 shooting to compete at 198), but I'm finding myself still around 17% body fat. I'd hoped to get down to at least 12 and try to hold around there, but I'm also really hoping to seriously pursue my strength goals so I don't particularly want to keep cutting too terribly long. So now I'm torn. I can't decide if it's better to keep cutting down to around 12% and then go into a slow bulk, or just stop at around 195-198 and start trying to do a much slower recomp. Any input from anyone who has gone through a similar process would be greatly appreciated.

For clarity, when you say shooting to compete at 198, are you referring to a PL meet?

MrGonzo05

I am within a couple of pounds of my goal weight (currently 203 shooting to compete at 198), but I'm finding myself still around 17% body fat. I'd hoped to get down to at least 12 and try to hold around there, but I'm also really hoping to seriously pursue my strength goals so I don't particularly want to keep cutting too terribly long. So now I'm torn. I can't decide if it's better to keep cutting down to around 12% and then go into a slow bulk, or just stop at around 195-198 and start trying to do a much slower recomp. Any input from anyone who has gone through a similar process would be greatly appreciated.

For clarity, when you say shooting to compete at 198, are you referring to a PL meet?

Ah, good question.

Huffdogg

I am within a couple of pounds of my goal weight (currently 203 shooting to compete at 198), but I'm finding myself still around 17% body fat. I'd hoped to get down to at least 12 and try to hold around there, but I'm also really hoping to seriously pursue my strength goals so I don't particularly want to keep cutting too terribly long. So now I'm torn. I can't decide if it's better to keep cutting down to around 12% and then go into a slow bulk, or just stop at around 195-198 and start trying to do a much slower recomp. Any input from anyone who has gone through a similar process would be greatly appreciated.

For clarity, when you say shooting to compete at 198, are you referring to a PL meet?

Oh, duh. Yes lol PL. Sorry for the confusion. I don't have a meet scheduled atm or anything, but I'm hoping something will come along in 2014 that I can jump into. I'm a raw, drug free lifter.

Huffdogg

Currently at about a 1100 total at 204 (last test a month or so ago). Right now I'm doing a "daily max" type program hoping to maximize existing muscle mass without really gaining more muscle. Looking for CNS adaptation as far as I can take it.

NCSteveVH

I hope I'm not highjacking this thread but I think I have a somewhat related question. Obviously I'm not a bodybuilder, but I do bulk and cut phases. I'm about to start a cut phase as I'm trying to get down to around 12% body fat (currently at 16% as measured by a Body Pod). I will continue my split resistance training program to try to maintain as much muscle as I can in a caloric deficit but I will also add more cardio and HITT. My question -- I currently take creatine daily; should I continue to take it during a cut phase? I'm thinking that I should but figured you guys would know. Thanks.

SideSteel

Huffdog:

I'm not speaking from experience with the following comments as I've not yet competed. Please take that into consideration. I'm just laying out my thoughts on this.

When I think about your scenario, your current weight puts you in a position to be able to make competition weight very easily and on short notice. So in theory you could hit 198 within a week or two if needed. The bigger issue is that if you do schedule a competition you're going to want to have time to prep (you might run a contest specific program that has you peaking at meet time). So I think a big variable in how you proceed, would be how much time do you have or how far in advance would you know about your meet?

If you're planning on dropping into a meet in a month (very little prep time) then obviously you'll want to stay nearer your competition weight.

If you're planning on competing several months from now, my belief is that you would be better off cutting further now and getting another bulking phase (mild surplus) to take advantage of the effects it may have on your lifts.

Finally, I'd suggest asking ChrisDavey since he competes regularly (I'll link him this thread actually). He may have a more experience based answer. If it were me though, I'd lean towards cutting further so that you can get into a small energy surplus and stay there without getting too far above competition weight.

SideSteel

I hope I'm not highjacking this thread but I think I have a somewhat related question. Obviously I'm not a bodybuilder, but I do bulk and cut phases. I'm about to start a cut phase as I'm trying to get down to around 12% body fat (currently at 16% as measured by a Body Pod). I will continue my split resistance training program to try to maintain as much muscle as I can in a caloric deficit but I will also add more cardio and HITT. My question -- I currently take creatine daily; should I continue to take it during a cut phase? I'm thinking that I should but figured you guys would know. Thanks.

I can't think of a reason to stop using creatine based on whether or not you are cutting/bulking. I'd keep using it.

Huffdogg

Huffdog:

I'm not speaking from experience with the following comments as I've not yet competed. Please take that into consideration. I'm just laying out my thoughts on this.

When I think about your scenario, your current weight puts you in a position to be able to make competition weight very easily and on short notice. So in theory you could hit 198 within a week or two if needed. The bigger issue is that if you do schedule a competition you're going to want to have time to prep (you might run a contest specific program that has you peaking at meet time). So I think a big variable in how you proceed, would be how much time do you have or how far in advance would you know about your meet?

If you're planning on dropping into a meet in a month (very little prep time) then obviously you'll want to stay nearer your competition weight.

If you're planning on competing several months from now, my belief is that you would be better off cutting further now and getting another bulking phase (mild surplus) to take advantage of the effects it may have on your lifts.

Finally, I'd suggest asking ChrisDavey since he competes regularly (I'll link him this thread actually). He may have a more experience based answer. If it were me though, I'd lean towards cutting further so that you can get into a small energy surplus and stay there without getting too far above competition weight.

Well, I don't have a meet scheduled right now. It's entirely possible I won't even get into one in 2014. The cost and time involved basically rule me out of meet where I have to travel much, and oddly there doesn't seem to be much activity in Chicago, which is only 45 minutes away from me.

Basically, I train like a powerlifter, but haven't ever competed. I'd like to cut enough to be stacking myself near the top of the weight class I hope to eventually lift in, and without a pretty severe drop in bf% now, bulking into the next weight class would probably turn out...poorly. I've always tended towards fat rather than lean if I go off-plan.

I haven't ever seen my abs, and I think there's a part of me that wonders if I lack the willpower to cut that low. That keeps me waffling around the 15-20% range, never getting really lean, and never getting enough surplus to get significantly stronger. Maybe if I just suck it up and cut down now, I'll get my head right and be able to get used to the idea of a solid bulk.

Thanks for your perspective, SS.

charleyreedto175

work harder on your bulk lifting, max power training will help with your loss to 12. I would not start to add a higher intake. Check your water levels and have blood work done monthly. Within a short while you will be at your goal.

Huffdogg

Yeah I only do minimal accessory work. Doing a "bulgarian/nemesis" type program right now; daily workouts (5/week minimum) squat and press to max singles then a couple sets of doubles or triples at 10% down. If I'm feeling really hyped I add some explosive work around 50%. Rotate bench and standing press on a 1/3 ratio, and a bit of upper back and quad work to address weaknesses. So far, so good; only been on it for a month, so we'll see.

chrisdavey

How tall are you?

I basically agree with Sidesteel's advice that it's good to stay relatively close to comp weight. However, you need to think long term as well.

I'll give you my example. I compete at 82.5kg 181lbs and basically hover around 85kg now (at around 12% BF). My next comp isn't until June this year. I know that if I am around 86kg on the day but at a lower BF% then I will have more LBM and should be stronger. So I am going to cut for 3 months (probably get down to around 80-81kg). Then I'll be eating at a very slight surplus (which helps maintain performance during a very high volume period of training coming into competition). (alternatively, I "may" get a bit silly and keep dropping and see if I can cut to the 75's just once :laugh: Probably not a good idea though)

1100 at 204lbs will put you at the top of the field? That doesn't sound right to me but IDK US PL that well. The record in Oz for 204lbs or 90kg is 760kg which is 1672lbs.

IDK if that was at all helpful. Basiclally, pick the weight class that you can be competitive at for your height. A 5'4" person is probably not going to look real good in the SHW's but may total well. I like to look half decent and lift well so 82.5's is good for me at 5'8"

Sarauk2sf

I would advise definitely take the advice that SS and Chris have given with regard to not getting too far off your goal. Having an idea of when you compete obviously helps. I did my first meet last year and it was earlier than the one I envisaged doing and I ended up cutting until too close to the date and, even though I was reversing by then, was effectively at a deficit leading up to it. Being a few lbs off is not a big deal however, especially if they have 'evening before' weigh ins as its easy to drop water weight with no impact as long as you eat and drink enough after your weigh in.

Not an expert at all, but I would cut for a bit longer and then do a slow bulk leading up to a meet. It really depends on how your lifts are going as well (as in whether you are losing strength from a prolonged or deep cut).

SideSteel

I would advise definitely take the advice that SS and Chris have given with regard to not getting too far off your goal. Having an idea of when you compete obviously helps. I did my first meet last year and it was earlier than the one I envisaged doing and I ended up cutting until too close to the date and, even though I was reversing by then, was effectively at a deficit leading up to it. Being a few lbs off is not a big deal however, especially if they have 'evening before' weigh ins as its easy to drop water weight with no impact as long as you eat and drink enough after your weigh in.

Not an expert at all, but I would cut for a bit longer and then do a slow bulk leading up to a meet. It really depends on how your lifts are going as well (as in whether you are losing strength from a prolonged or deep cut).

^ but still smashed a deadlift PR despite the deficit.

















Then gained about 25lbs the following 3 weeks....

Huffdogg

1100 at 204lbs will put you at the top of the field? That doesn't sound right to me but IDK US PL that well. The record in Oz for 204lbs or 90kg is 760kg which is 1672lbs.

IDK if that was at all helpful. Basiclally, pick the weight class that you can be competitive at for your height. A 5'4" person is probably not going to look real good in the SHW's but may total well. I like to look half decent and lift well so 82.5's is good for me at 5'8"

Oh lord no, not at all. What I meant was that I'd like to ride high in the weight class I'm in. If I'm going to be in the 198 class, I might as well weigh 198. I don't have any intention of living around 220 lbs as of right now; I don't think I could carry another 20 lbs of lean mass and still do my job without it getting in the way, honestly. At any rate, in the long term the 200 lb'ish size is what I'm probably destined to be. If I get serious about competing that may change, but right now it's way in the background of life in general; it just informs how I train. If I could get around 1200 at 198 I might be competitive in raw/ drug tested meets, and that's definitely a long term goal for me.

For the record, I'm just under 6' tall.