Do you squat low enough? givi\en up on pushups?

gecallo

I love squating...especially with lb's on my back!

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ShaneT99

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ShaneT99

For every disclaimer there is always someone with another opinion:

http://www.mystrengthtraining.com/squat.htm

Do not believe I said she was wrong. I said I was taught a different way when I went through my cert. Read the above link just as quickly as you threw your jab out there.

I don't see anything in that article that contradicts what was said in the one I posted. I see where it tells the benefits of squats, the different types of squats, how to do a squat and some common errors made while performing the squats, but I don't see anything that says going to parallel or lower is bad. Am I missing something? Are you talking about the part that says deep squatting "too soon" can be harmful to knees or cause the ascension to be more difficult?

Irregardless, here's my opinion on squatting.

1. Start light. Work on perfecting your form. Even if that means doing body weight squats, work on perfecting your form and going as low as you can comfortably go while keeping proper alignment in your back (in other words, your back shouldn't be rounded). The lower you can go while maintaining proper form the more benefit you will get from the exercise.

2. Add weight. Don't go from nothing to 400 pounds, obviously. Just add weight in small increments and continue working to maintain perfect form. Continue adding weight so that you continue to be challenged, but if added weight ever causes your form to break down then back off the weight a little. Form is THE most important thing in squats.

3. If for some reason your knees or back start to hurt...STOP. That means you're doing something wrong. Find someone that knows what they're doing and get them to help you with your form.

amy1612

Thanks for the pushups site ,I can do a fair few on my knees, but being able to do more "proper" ones would be great. I also increased my weight on the chest press at the gym today.

I usually squat with a 10kg barbell, but can leg press around 40kg...hopeing to up my squat barbell soon, as Im starting to feel its getting easier.

rose1617

Love squats
Usually do around 45 for a warm-up.
Doing OH squats for a work-out today. Always go past-parallel otherwise the squats aren't as effective.
I was able to back squat over 100 lbs. the other day and of course it was way easier to not go all the way, but isn't a real measure of leg strength.
Thanks for the post!

mark996

Most people fall prey to the whole knee over extension, and the cooper institute in all their "infinite" wisdom and any other cert group only teaches above parallel for one reason, their client base. You're taught to teach slightly above parallel because if you teach someone ATF (*kitten* to floor) squats and they hurt themselves...well so and so trained me this way, you're sued and screwed, that's all any training organization looks out for, is it wrong? For the trainer...no, for the client to not know better...yes. I train ATF AND above parallel for different reasons, but try to do a squat slightly, even half an inch above parallel in a competition, you'll get 3 red lights and hit the showers real early. Sure, some 70 year old women shouldn't be doing ATF squats, but I have to question any trainer making her do squats in the first place. I've seen guys squat over 800 pounds with my own eyes, and to this day, they have no issues. If you're not sure if you're going deep enough, try box squats. It's a great movement to get the feel of parallel, and to work on explosiveness out of the hole. But, most of the people not squatting deep enough with a barbell on their back are probably the same group using the smith machine for squats. Just sayin

cuddlegrl

great post and interesting convo!

My trainer has me doing squats and i sure dont like em! We started with parallel and now he has me going lower. He also has me up against a wall and gives me the 25LB flat weight on my lap and makes me hold it (now that hurts!)

Im not so good with the pushups. I really really struggle with shoulder pain (bicep tendenitis was the latest). I even struggle on my knees so i generally try to avoid those. The trainer has had me on the bosi ball (ball side down) for knee pushups and I laugh my way through. I am soooo unstable. He loves that ball. He likes to make me lift it over my head then put it on the floor and jump back and have my toes hit the floor then bring my knees to my chest and jump up with the ball thing over my head and again again again until I cant do it anymore!

After reading your post I think I'll give the pushups a try again (starting out super slow) maybe one day Ill be able to have weight on my back

chrisdavey

another great post

Quite often it is asked "how much do you squat?" and I hear some pretty big numbers sometime and can't help but think "how low do you go?"

I have only been squatting for about 9 months now and my PB is 253lbs at 160lbs body weight. That is going as deep as my hips allow.

Point: hip flexibility and a good hamstring stretch are very important I feel. I will always do a low squat static hold for 30secs or so with just the bar for a stretch and then do the lunge and the move the front knee forward and hold (for hip flexors) as well as hammy stretches.

Great vid on squat technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kawBY5p29fQ

TateFTW

parallel is the way to go. Anything else is a waiste. I just renewed my gym membership after finishing up P90X, and I met a great older guy who only does free weights. He's almost 70 and he still squats to parallel. He's never had a knee problem, and he credits his good form. I see guys all the time putting twice their bodyweight on the bar and going down half way. They're destoying their backs, and they'll start feeling it very soon.

I advocate parallel for the average person. If you can't get down that far, use less weight. If you can't get down that far with a bar, then hold 2 dumbells. If you can't get down to parallel with 2 dumbells, then don't use weights.

If, like me, you're NOT and DON'T WANT TO BE average, then go LOWER. Parallel is nothing to me. I go down until my knees can't bend anymore. WHO CARES about how much weight you use. I'm not trying to impress anyone in the gym. I want to impress people at the beach or playing football, not some gymrats who never see the light of day. If you want to really have some fun, use the smith machine, put your feet a few inches in front of you, and feel like you're trying to touch your butt to the ground. When you come up, make sure your butt moves up and not back. After a few sets, you'll have to habble to the water fountain. Finish with a few sets of slow leg extensions with an isometric squeeze at the top of each, then try to make it to your car before your legs completely give out.

I LOVE leg day.

imagymrat

parallel is the way to go. Anything else is a waiste. I just renewed my gym membership after finishing up P90X, and I met a great older guy who only does free weights. He's almost 70 and he still squats to parallel. He's never had a knee problem, and he credits his good form. I see guys all the time putting twice their bodyweight on the bar and going down half way. They're destoying their backs, and they'll start feeling it very soon.

I advocate parallel for the average person. If you can't get down that far, use less weight. If you can't get down that far with a bar, then hold 2 dumbells. If you can't get down to parallel with 2 dumbells, then don't use weights.

If, like me, you're NOT and DON'T WANT TO BE average, then go LOWER. Parallel is nothing to me. I go down until my knees can't bend anymore. WHO CARES about how much weight you use. I'm not trying to impress anyone in the gym. I want to impress people at the beach or playing football, not some gymrats who never see the light of day. If you want to really have some fun, use the smith machine, put your feet a few inches in front of you, and feel like you're trying to touch your butt to the ground. When you come up, make sure your butt moves up and not back. After a few sets, you'll have to habble to the water fountain. Finish with a few sets of slow leg extensions with an isometric squeeze at the top of each, then try to make it to your car before your legs completely give out.

I LOVE leg day.

WHOA on the gymrat comment...I DO see the light of day..:laugh: lol..and you described my leg day today pretty well...Smith machine squats, and sumos, onto extensions with static holds, deadlifts, lunges and hack squats...I like using the Smith once in awhile, it definitely helps maintain form.

ShaneT99

Most people fall prey to the whole knee over extension, and the cooper institute in all their "infinite" wisdom and any other cert group only teaches above parallel for one reason, their client base. You're taught to teach slightly above parallel because if you teach someone ATF (*kitten* to floor) squats and they hurt themselves...well so and so trained me this way, you're sued and screwed, that's all any training organization looks out for, is it wrong? For the trainer...no, for the client to not know better...yes. I train ATF AND above parallel for different reasons, but try to do a squat slightly, even half an inch above parallel in a competition, you'll get 3 red lights and hit the showers real early. Sure, some 70 year old women shouldn't be doing ATF squats, but I have to question any trainer making her do squats in the first place. I've seen guys squat over 800 pounds with my own eyes, and to this day, they have no issues. If you're not sure if you're going deep enough, try box squats. It's a great movement to get the feel of parallel, and to work on explosiveness out of the hole. But, most of the people not squatting deep enough with a barbell on their back are probably the same group using the smith machine for squats. Just sayin

Excellent points made in this post. Worth a second read if you missed it above.

To reiterate what this guy and imagymrat said, box squats are great for making yourself go low enough. My gym has several of those "boxes" of varying heights that most people use for step ups and what not. The shortest one is 12 inches and it is GREAT for doing box squats. I use it occasionally just to make sure I'm still going low enough.

mark996

The smith machine does the exact opposite, you're not maintaining form AT ALL on the smith machine. When you squat, it's not a prefectly straight up and down movement, if you put your body on a track, as you are with the smith machine, you're putting more stress on parts that don't need it by making it commit to the rack..here's a great article on this...

"My biggest problem with the Smith Machine is that people are convinced they are still doing free weight movements when they perform exercises on the Smith Machine. Because an Olympic bar is attatched to the machine does not make this a free weight piece. The reason is this piece only allows movement in a fixed plane of motion. This is one of the many disadvantages of machines that Coach Snideman has stated in his article, Free Weights vs. Machines.

In any movement that a human performs, almost never are the same muscles or patterns of movement replicated. This is obviously not new to machine training, but with the Smith Machine this becomes even more complicated. A squatting movement is rather complex, especially considering the variations that are available. Even though the bar does not look as though it moves but up and down, all the joints are revolving and this simple movement is not simple. The Smith Machine locks into a very unnatural movement pattern which has the potential to stress inappropriate structures and not train the body in various planes.

How is this fixed? Really easily, just do the free weight equivalent. If you are worried about getting pinned then you have two options. Work within a power rack in which you can set the bars to help you if you do get stuck, secondly, don't work till failure. As I have stated on numerous occassions you do not need to train to failure to have phenomenal success in the gym. In fact, many would benefit from not training to failure for the majority of their workouts."

You are risking greater injury to your back by using the smith machine because you're targeting one certain area, the middle of your back, to control all the weight. With free weights, the weight is distributed amongst the vertebrae. I saw a guy at Metroflex, where I train strongman, that shattered his due to over stressing it. There's no natural movement on the smith machine. If you hate squats with free weights, get used to it, it's God's gift to your body. Start light, work up.

TateFTW

parallel is the way to go. Anything else is a waiste. I just renewed my gym membership after finishing up P90X, and I met a great older guy who only does free weights. He's almost 70 and he still squats to parallel. He's never had a knee problem, and he credits his good form. I see guys all the time putting twice their bodyweight on the bar and going down half way. They're destoying their backs, and they'll start feeling it very soon.

I advocate parallel for the average person. If you can't get down that far, use less weight. If you can't get down that far with a bar, then hold 2 dumbells. If you can't get down to parallel with 2 dumbells, then don't use weights.

If, like me, you're NOT and DON'T WANT TO BE average, then go LOWER. Parallel is nothing to me. I go down until my knees can't bend anymore. WHO CARES about how much weight you use. I'm not trying to impress anyone in the gym. I want to impress people at the beach or playing football, not some gymrats who never see the light of day. If you want to really have some fun, use the smith machine, put your feet a few inches in front of you, and feel like you're trying to touch your butt to the ground. When you come up, make sure your butt moves up and not back. After a few sets, you'll have to habble to the water fountain. Finish with a few sets of slow leg extensions with an isometric squeeze at the top of each, then try to make it to your car before your legs completely give out.

I LOVE leg day.

WHOA on the gymrat comment...I DO see the light of day..:laugh: lol..and you described my leg day today pretty well...Smith machine squats, and sumos, onto extensions with static holds, deadlifts, lunges and hack squats...I like using the Smith once in awhile, it definitely helps maintain form.

Haha, you know what I mean. People who think they have to show off in the gym and end up not helping or even hurting themselves.

I like to choose one power move, either squats, smith squats or leg presses, and pyramid the weight up then down for 5-6 sets, then move on to isolation exercises to finish off my upper legs. Then choose a calf move and finish with 4-6 sets of that. I've never been much for long sessions, but legs are one thing I'll spend a whole lifting session on. I used to hate working legs, but that was because I played football and we were taught it was all about weight over form. Now that weight doesn't matter I get so much more out of my workouts.

ivyjbres

1. As a woman it would be extremely difficult for you to ever build big, bulky muscles. That's an unfounded fear that a lot of women have about lifting weights, but the simple truth is that women don't produce enough testosterone to get big and bulky.

That's not entirely correct. The amount of testosterone does not affect the size of the muscle, only the speed at which that amount of muscle is easily attained. Also, men and women have different forms of testosterone. Its not a lack of testosterone that prevents most women from building bulky muscle, its genetics. Most people have a hard time building bulky muscle (if it were easy for everyone, we'd all be body builders!) Most women don't build bulky muscle because most people don't build bulky muscle. If the rest of a woman's family easily builds bulk muscle, its more likely that she may able to as well.

NinjaPrincess

this is great. do you do a blog? I would love to read one if you do. I read muscle and fitness hers as I think its the only magazine that actually talks about exercise not just fashion but it doesn't come out often enough and if you wrote a blog it might get me through the lul between issues and keep me improving at the gym. I love working out and want to show all the trainers who say I need their help that I can do just fine! (they just want to sell me sessions and I want to do this for me and learn along the way so I am not depending on anyone else!)

amy1612

Did 90 (30 each of chair,normal and sumo) squats yesterday that I made sure were parallel, and my goodness my thighs are sore today,but in a good way.

HealthyChanges2010

bump! thanks

amy1612

Noticed that the lovely gym rats account has been deactivated, does anyone know if shes ok??

gillleeman

I was wondering also, going to miss her :sad: