Atkins?
Replies
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Most people join the threads to let the OP know it's unnecessary. My major issue with many of these type "diets" is they tend to cut calories drastically which adversely affect you long term. While LCHF is not a bad option, many people struggle when cutting large groups of food out of their diet. Short of having a medical condition, it's unnecessary from a weight loss perspective to cut out food group. Now from a satiety or diet adherence standpoint, that may not be true. Ultimately, the OP has to understand their current situation. If they have trigger foods, it would be advisable to cut them out of the diet. And for the most part, if you are exercising, 1200 calories is too little. Most women I know are eating 1700-2100 (tdee method with macros around 40% carbs, 30% protein and 30% fats) which give you enough calories to feel full quite often.I'm not sure why the "pro-carb" people creep into every thread like this. Of course you can eat carbs and lose weight, and of course the diet designed by Dr. Atkins isn't the only way to lose weight. Who ever said it was? However, there are a number of advantages to such a diet, first and foremost being the foods you eat are very satiating and you are unlikely to go hungry, even on an aggressive caloric deficit. Take two people eating, e.g., 1200 calories, with one following the Atkins plan and the other consuming small portions of the same foods they ate when they put on the extra weight, and I'd be willing to wager that the Atkins person will be more satiated throughout the day. Just look at the number of posts you see where people are struggling to get by on the 1200 calories MFP recommends - I have yet to see one of them complaining they're starving at 1200 calories while following a LCHF diet.
In short, simply because you like to eat carbs doesn't mean it's for everyone, especially for weight loss. As for long-term success, if you truly follow the Atkins diet, you will learn all the needed habits to maintain your weight loss, such as weighing/logging your food, tracking your macros, tracking your calories, and so on. I personally see no harm in someone wanting to use a LCHF while cutting body fat in order to take advantage of the satiating effect of LCHF foods and then using a different plan for long-term maintenance if they so choose.
I believe the issue that many of us have, is when comments like "LCHF" is much better for you or you will see much quicker fat loss through LCHF. Also, many of us want to get the OP's away from dieting and beginning teaching them how to eat long term for success, which most diets do not do. If you look at all the people who have done atkins... how many have maintained their weight loss and not gained back?
I see lots of scattered points and reasoning without a basis, especially the last paragraph where you say how many people do you know that have followed Atkins and maintained their weight. Like non Atkins dieters have no problem with weight gain, just the Atkins people. :noway: And I know lots that have done Atkins and have kept weight off, and improved their health and rid themselves of terrible cardiovascular problems that run in their family. Have you considered that not everybody has a body just like yours? Have you considered that by telling people certain healthy dieting programs that are not extreme and that have improved health that they are not sustainable and not healthy will have the effect of harming?
Actually, I know for a fact that not all people respond to things like mine; in fact, my wife has a medical condition that comes with a gluten intolerance. What I advocate is finding a diet/lifestyle that gives you the best chance to adhere to a diet. With that, I don't believe there is any one superior diet.
I will also be the first to admit when I do not know that much about a program.. atkins being one of them. That is why I used a general term such as these types of diets. It's not to specifically pick on atkins, but the majority of diets do cut calories in large. If atkins is not one of those, then great on them.
Well, here's a perfect example of a person following the traditional" diet in MFP and putting the weight back on again, this thread came out today. So, I don't think it is right to state Atkins is not sustainable nor effective and Traditional (and I use that term loosely) diet is. Check out this thread and see what diet he's on, it's not Atkins and he's struggling, and in more than one attempt with the same diet:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1175635-after-1-week0 -
It worked great for me when I had over 50 pounds to lose. I lost it all and was hardly ever hungry. Now, however, I'm in the normal weight range and trying to get rid of vanity pounds that I regained, and no such luck. I still think it's worth a try for anyone who likes to eat meat.0
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My point wasn't to suggest everyone eat 1200 calories. Rather, my point is that you don't see a lot of people following a LCHF diet complaining that they're going hungry, yet that's a common complaint on these forums and I would be willing to wager a very common reason that people give up on dieting altogether. To put it another way, you say that some people struggle because they have to give up certain foods. I would argue that at least as many people with diets because they are hungry and miserable while dieting, and for some of these people, they may not mind giving up certain foods for a fixed period of time in order to feel more satiated.
Ok, i can understand that. I would agree that many people, especially noobs, complain of hunger but I would suggest that is because they are following the FDA standards which is carb heavy. If you alter your macros and minimize your deficit, I believe hunger wont' occur. This is why I always suggest foods high in protien, fats and fibers. Don't get me wrong, I don't think LCHF is necessarily a bad program. Like I said, if you can adhere to it, then it's very beneficial; this especially applies to those with insulin resistance or other medical issues. For me, and the major point of my post, was I feel there is no reason to give up whole groups of foods (like fruit) for a diet, unless those foods cause binging issues.0 -
Does Atkins allow for pasta, rice, bread, etc. over 20 grams? That's a no. So if a person doesn't feel that they could limit themselves from those, then why bother with this diet? Eating for LIFE isn't about torture or restricting because a diet program deems it as "evil".If you can't do it for life, then don't do it. If you can't imagine yourself restricting any pasta, rice, ice cream, candy, etc. forever, then look for a different program.
Can you lose weight on it? Sure, but you can on ANY CALORIE DEFICIT program.
EDIT: For people who are diabetic, this may work for them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Why is this? By what logic must your diet today be the same as your diet tomorrow? If through doing the Atkins diet you learn to track calories, macronutrients, weigh your food - basically developing good habits for long-term weight loss success - where does the harm come from? If through doing Atkins you are able to eat at a caloric deficit without going hungry, where does the harm come from? No offense, but mere conclusory statements that you should not follow a diet simply because you may not follow it until the day you day are not very convincing. Not to mention, you've disregarded most of what's been said in this thread and fall back on the "you can lose weight on any calorie deficit program." No one is denying that.
And I wasn't being conclusionary, I was merely stating logic since most people who go on any diet strictly do it for weight loss. Rarely do they think of sustaining the program as an after thought.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Atkins is not an extreme diet, and it is very effective.
There's an Atkins support group on MFP, you can ask questions there and get good advice:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/5181-atkins-support-group
Lol! YES, it really IS an extreme diet. I was on Atkins Induction off and on for months and found it absolutely miserable. Not to mention, I lost weight the first week, then NOTHING after that. If you're diabetic, then that's a good reason to limit carbs, but to lose weight, as a lifestyle option, it's just not for most people...and it only helps if you have a LOT of weight to lose. Despite what the book tells you, it works through calorie restriction, because you can't eat a lot of foods, especially at first. If the OP is set on this diet, I'd suggest that they try a lower carb diet, in order to restrict calories that way, rather than demonizing specific types of food. Simple carbs aren't that filling, so it's easy to stick to a diet if you're eating more filling foods, like protein and veggies. However, in a lower carb diet, you CAN eat a freaking cookie without feeling like you've blown your entire diet (because you "knocked yourself out of ketogenesis").
*smh* Atkins isn't an extreme diet. Psshh! :noway:
Ok, so let's see now....what did I eat within the week.... Here's a rundown....
Eggs
Bacon
Smoked salmon
Ribeye steak
Ground beef
Pork sausage
Chicken
Chicken soup
Almonds
Brazil nuts
Asparagus
Cabbage
Radicchio
Rapini
Tomato
Zucchini
Cauliflower
Fennel
Kale
Carrot
Peas
Olives
Pickles
Full fat Cheese (parmigiano reggiano, Comte, montassio, Toma Piedmontese, kerrygold cheddar)
Flaxseed bread pita wraps (made with flaxseed, egg, extra virgin olive oil, baking powder, salt and water...and that's it)
Dark chocolate
Cream
Butter
Extra virgin olive oil
Red wine, tea, coffee
Does this look like being deprived of food? At the end of the day, I'm so full and satisfied I don't even think of overeating above my calorie targets set by the traditional tdee, bmr, etc, calculations.
I'm not suffering at all....and yes I can live eating rich and delicious foods like this for the rest of my life!!
Not a cookie or slice of real bread in the mix. Have fun with your flaxseed pitas, Oopsie rolls, and cauliflower tortillas and the fact that it's a pain to eat in many restaurants and explain to others why you can't have birthday cake, then tell me it's not extreme.
For me, eating is a SOCIAL event; if it's not, you're doing it wrong. If it works for you, GREAT! Different strokes for different folks. However, my assessment of the restrictiveness of the diet was EXTREME!
It's not a pain to eat in restaurants, and a bite or two of birthday cake or whatever in a celebration does no harm to me. Will the world come to a screeching halt if I don't eat the entire slice...no. Social events are fine, in fact I find I have more ability to eat with this lifestyle than with the traditional diet, where in a traditional diet I would eat a birds ration of food and say no to all the good stuff, instead now, I load my plate up with incredibly rich food and not restrict any of the wonderful accompaniments like bearnaise sauce, hollandaise, salad dressings, clarified butter, etc. Throwing out the egg yolks for omelets, not being able to eat full fat cheese and yogurt, not to mention cream, butter, bacon, etc. give me a break...who exactly is on the restrictive diet?0 -
Well, here's a perfect example of a person following the traditional" diet in MFP and putting the weight back on again, this thread came out today. So, I don't think it is right to state Atkins is not sustainable nor effective and Traditional (and I use that term loosely) diet is. Check out this thread and see what diet he's on, it's not Atkins and he's struggling, and in more than one attempt with the same diet:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1175635-after-1-week
I didnt say Atkins isn't effective. It works on the same premise as all diets.. a calorie deficit. Atkins, Advocare, Slimming World, WW and MFP all work.
Also, that is a very poor example. If you honestly think a person who has been dieting for a week is any indication of a traditional diet you are mistaken. If you want to see examples, look at the below threads:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/903628-one-year-of-barbells-and-ice-cream-my-story-so-far-pics
www.gettingfit4life.com <-- this is cyber ed's story.. an MFP mod who lost 312 lbs.
One week does not provide any results and many variables can effect weight loss: glycogen levels, sodium levels, accuracy of tracking, water weight from exercise, natural body weight fluctuations and more.0 -
Well, here's a perfect example of a person following the traditional" diet in MFP and putting the weight back on again, this thread came out today. So, I don't think it is right to state Atkins is not sustainable nor effective and Traditional (and I use that term loosely) diet is. Check out this thread and see what diet he's on, it's not Atkins and he's struggling, and in more than one attempt with the same diet:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1175635-after-1-week
I didnt say Atkins isn't effective. It works on the same premise as all diets.. a calorie deficit. Atkins, Advocare, Slimming World, WW and MFP all work.
Also, that is a very poor example. If you honestly think a person who has been dieting for a week is any indication of a traditional diet you are mistaken. If you want to see examples, look at the below threads:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/903628-one-year-of-barbells-and-ice-cream-my-story-so-far-pics
www.gettingfit4life.com <-- this is cyber ed's story.. an MFP mod who lost 312 lbs.
One week does not provide any results and many variables can effect weight loss: glycogen levels, sodium levels, accuracy of tracking, water weight from exercise, natural body weight fluctuations and more.
Gah! Yes, this.0 -
Well, here's a perfect example of a person following the traditional" diet in MFP and putting the weight back on again, this thread came out today. So, I don't think it is right to state Atkins is not sustainable nor effective and Traditional (and I use that term loosely) diet is. Check out this thread and see what diet he's on, it's not Atkins and he's struggling, and in more than one attempt with the same diet:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1175635-after-1-week
I didnt say Atkins isn't effective. It works on the same premise as all diets.. a calorie deficit. Atkins, Advocare, Slimming World, WW and MFP all work.
Also, that is a very poor example. If you honestly think a person who has been dieting for a week is any indication of a traditional diet you are mistaken. If you want to see examples, look at the below threads:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/903628-one-year-of-barbells-and-ice-cream-my-story-so-far-pics
www.gettingfit4life.com <-- this is cyber ed's story.. an MFP mod who lost 312 lbs.
One week does not provide any results and many variables can effect weight loss: glycogen levels, sodium levels, accuracy of tracking, water weight from exercise, natural body weight fluctuations and more.
Right, but I think what he said was that two years ago he lost about 40 lbs, put on 50, and now he's back in the same game. Hmmmm.....0 -
Atkins is not an extreme diet, and it is very effective.
There's an Atkins support group on MFP, you can ask questions there and get good advice:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/5181-atkins-support-group
Lol! YES, it really IS an extreme diet. I was on Atkins Induction off and on for months and found it absolutely miserable. Not to mention, I lost weight the first week, then NOTHING after that. If you're diabetic, then that's a good reason to limit carbs, but to lose weight, as a lifestyle option, it's just not for most people...and it only helps if you have a LOT of weight to lose. Despite what the book tells you, it works through calorie restriction, because you can't eat a lot of foods, especially at first. If the OP is set on this diet, I'd suggest that they try a lower carb diet, in order to restrict calories that way, rather than demonizing specific types of food. Simple carbs aren't that filling, so it's easy to stick to a diet if you're eating more filling foods, like protein and veggies. However, in a lower carb diet, you CAN eat a freaking cookie without feeling like you've blown your entire diet (because you "knocked yourself out of ketogenesis").
*smh* Atkins isn't an extreme diet. Psshh! :noway:
Ok, so let's see now....what did I eat within the week.... Here's a rundown....
Eggs
Bacon
Smoked salmon
Ribeye steak
Ground beef
Pork sausage
Chicken
Chicken soup
Almonds
Brazil nuts
Asparagus
Cabbage
Radicchio
Rapini
Tomato
Zucchini
Cauliflower
Fennel
Kale
Carrot
Peas
Olives
Pickles
Full fat Cheese (parmigiano reggiano, Comte, montassio, Toma Piedmontese, kerrygold cheddar)
Flaxseed bread pita wraps (made with flaxseed, egg, extra virgin olive oil, baking powder, salt and water...and that's it)
Dark chocolate
Cream
Butter
Extra virgin olive oil
Red wine, tea, coffee
Does this look like being deprived of food? At the end of the day, I'm so full and satisfied I don't even think of overeating above my calorie targets set by the traditional tdee, bmr, etc, calculations.
I'm not suffering at all....and yes I can live eating rich and delicious foods like this for the rest of my life!!
Not a cookie or slice of real bread in the mix. Have fun with your flaxseed pitas, Oopsie rolls, and cauliflower tortillas and the fact that it's a pain to eat in many restaurants and explain to others why you can't have birthday cake, then tell me it's not extreme.
For me, eating is a SOCIAL event; if it's not, you're doing it wrong. If it works for you, GREAT! Different strokes for different folks. However, my assessment of the restrictiveness of the diet was EXTREME!
It's not a pain to eat in restaurants, and a bite or two of birthday cake or whatever in a celebration does no harm to me. Will the world come to a screeching halt if I don't eat the entire slice...no. Social events are fine, in fact I find I have more ability to eat with this lifestyle than with the traditional diet, where in a traditional diet I would eat a birds ration of food and say no to all the good stuff, instead now, I load my plate up with incredibly rich food and not restrict any of the wonderful accompaniments like bearnaise sauce, hollandaise, salad dressings, clarified butter, etc. Throwing out the egg yolks for omelets, not being able to eat full fat cheese and yogurt, not to mention cream, butter, bacon, etc. give me a break...who exactly is on the restrictive diet?
I was on the diet for a year. It blew. You like it? Eat like Atkins tells you to, but don't try to argue its level of freedom, when someone calls it restrictive, because limiting food groups by the very definition itself, IS RESTRICTIVE.0 -
I've done Atkins twice. Both times I lost quite a bit of weight, both times I went insane with the food restrictions, and both times I regained all of the weight I had lost.
I thrive on carbs and no longer believe in restricting entire types of foods. I've lost nearly all of my weight and kept it off for 18 months by eating an appropriate number of calories no deprivation.0 -
Atkins is not an extreme diet, and it is very effective.
There's an Atkins support group on MFP, you can ask questions there and get good advice:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/5181-atkins-support-group
Lol! YES, it really IS an extreme diet. I was on Atkins Induction off and on for months and found it absolutely miserable. Not to mention, I lost weight the first week, then NOTHING after that. If you're diabetic, then that's a good reason to limit carbs, but to lose weight, as a lifestyle option, it's just not for most people...and it only helps if you have a LOT of weight to lose. Despite what the book tells you, it works through calorie restriction, because you can't eat a lot of foods, especially at first. If the OP is set on this diet, I'd suggest that they try a lower carb diet, in order to restrict calories that way, rather than demonizing specific types of food. Simple carbs aren't that filling, so it's easy to stick to a diet if you're eating more filling foods, like protein and veggies. However, in a lower carb diet, you CAN eat a freaking cookie without feeling like you've blown your entire diet (because you "knocked yourself out of ketogenesis").
*smh* Atkins isn't an extreme diet. Psshh! :noway:
Ok, so let's see now....what did I eat within the week.... Here's a rundown....
Eggs
Bacon
Smoked salmon
Ribeye steak
Ground beef
Pork sausage
Chicken
Chicken soup
Almonds
Brazil nuts
Asparagus
Cabbage
Radicchio
Rapini
Tomato
Zucchini
Cauliflower
Fennel
Kale
Carrot
Peas
Olives
Pickles
Full fat Cheese (parmigiano reggiano, Comte, montassio, Toma Piedmontese, kerrygold cheddar)
Flaxseed bread pita wraps (made with flaxseed, egg, extra virgin olive oil, baking powder, salt and water...and that's it)
Dark chocolate
Cream
Butter
Extra virgin olive oil
Red wine, tea, coffee
Does this look like being deprived of food? At the end of the day, I'm so full and satisfied I don't even think of overeating above my calorie targets set by the traditional tdee, bmr, etc, calculations.
I'm not suffering at all....and yes I can live eating rich and delicious foods like this for the rest of my life!!
Not a cookie or slice of real bread in the mix. Have fun with your flaxseed pitas, Oopsie rolls, and cauliflower tortillas and the fact that it's a pain to eat in many restaurants and explain to others why you can't have birthday cake, then tell me it's not extreme.
For me, eating is a SOCIAL event; if it's not, you're doing it wrong. If it works for you, GREAT! Different strokes for different folks. However, my assessment of the restrictiveness of the diet was EXTREME!
It's not a pain to eat in restaurants, and a bite or two of birthday cake or whatever in a celebration does no harm to me. Will the world come to a screeching halt if I don't eat the entire slice...no. Social events are fine, in fact I find I have more ability to eat with this lifestyle than with the traditional diet, where in a traditional diet I would eat a birds ration of food and say no to all the good stuff, instead now, I load my plate up with incredibly rich food and not restrict any of the wonderful accompaniments like bearnaise sauce, hollandaise, salad dressings, clarified butter, etc. Throwing out the egg yolks for omelets, not being able to eat full fat cheese and yogurt, not to mention cream, butter, bacon, etc. give me a break...who exactly is on the restrictive diet?
Not to mention, I eat full fat dairy, bacon, and whole eggs. I do not sacrifice flavor or enjoyment. The difference between your diet and my diet is that when you eat a hamburger, it's just the patty. When I eat one, it's half of the entire burger...and I get to eat some fries.0 -
Well, here's a perfect example of a person following the traditional" diet in MFP and putting the weight back on again, this thread came out today. So, I don't think it is right to state Atkins is not sustainable nor effective and Traditional (and I use that term loosely) diet is. Check out this thread and see what diet he's on, it's not Atkins and he's struggling, and in more than one attempt with the same diet:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1175635-after-1-week
I didnt say Atkins isn't effective. It works on the same premise as all diets.. a calorie deficit. Atkins, Advocare, Slimming World, WW and MFP all work.
Also, that is a very poor example. If you honestly think a person who has been dieting for a week is any indication of a traditional diet you are mistaken. If you want to see examples, look at the below threads:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/903628-one-year-of-barbells-and-ice-cream-my-story-so-far-pics
www.gettingfit4life.com <-- this is cyber ed's story.. an MFP mod who lost 312 lbs.
One week does not provide any results and many variables can effect weight loss: glycogen levels, sodium levels, accuracy of tracking, water weight from exercise, natural body weight fluctuations and more.
Right, but I think what he said was that two years ago he lost about 40 lbs, put on 50, and now he's back in the same game. Hmmmm.....
You do realize that you can hit the search button and find as many failures with atkins right? I don't even know why you are arguing.. I said it works and IMO it just unnecessarily eliminates healthy foods for you. Again, success all comes down to adherence.
BTW, any chance you check out those links I posted?:flowerforyou:0 -
From a personal standpoint, any diet that eliminates foods you love, increases the chances of failure. On top of that, any diet that can give you flu like symptoms is beyond me.
And I think this is where it largely comes down to the individual, and I agree entirely about finding something that works for you. For me, I've never experience any "flu" symptoms nor do I experience the feeling of excess energy some people get once in ketosis. I simply find it gives me much better control over my appetite and stupidly strong willpower. As for specific foods, I've never been prone to cravings nor have I had much of a sweet tooth nor do I regularly eat pasta and bread even when I'm not "dieting.' Honestly the only carb I miss is a good IPA, but I can rationalize cutting back on those for health reasons, and I'll still have the occasional nip of bourbon. All in all, I find it very easy to follow this type of diet.
But all of that said, I'd never suggest the Atkins diet is the right choice for everyone. Not even close.Does Atkins allow for pasta, rice, bread, etc. over 20 grams? That's a no. So if a person doesn't feel that they could limit themselves from those, then why bother with this diet? Eating for LIFE isn't about torture or restricting because a diet program deems it as "evil".
And I wasn't being conclusionary, I was merely stating logic since most people who go on any diet strictly do it for weight loss. Rarely do they think of sustaining the program as an after thought.
I'm always loathe to use the term "lifestyle change" because it's so over-used these days, but a diet in and of itself is never a lifestyle change. Deciding to prioritize your health is a lifestyle change, deciding you want to become a bodybuilder or achieve a "beach body" - those are lifestyle changes. Atkins, IIFYM, calorie counting and every other diet are simply tools for use in the short-term and they don't have to be sustainable in the long-term. You can change your short-term behavior (e.g., diet + exercise) as your long-term goals change, and simply because you do not decide to do something indefinitely doesn't mean you should never do it. If you simply pursue a short-term solution without committing to long-term change, you are destined to fail regardless of what program you are using. Again, this is nothing specific to Atkins; it's relevant to every school of thought when it comes to losing weight, including IIFYM and general calorie counting. If simple dieting/cutting were "lifestyle changes", conventional body builders would be making "lifestyle changes" roughly twice a year. In short, you shouldn't confuse short-term tools like the Atkins diet with a long-term goal like improving one's health.
As for eating for "torture" and deeming foods "evil", I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you probably haven't read Dr. Atkins' book nor have you been on his program for a significant period of time (correct me if I'm wrong). I can speak from experience though and say that the program is not torture for everyone, nor does Dr. Atkins characterize carbohydrates as evil. Quite to the contrary, I quite enjoy this program when cutting weight and I know many others that share the same sentiment.
Now, as for your comment:So if a person doesn't feel that they could limit themselves from those, then why bother with this diet?
I wholeheartedly agree. If someone does not feel they can give up a particular carbohydrate for a sufficient period of time, Atkins is not the plan for them. If you become miserable because you can't eat a cookie, don't do the Atkins diet. Everyone needs to find a plan they can stick with.0 -
You do realize that you can hit the search button and find as many failures with atkins right? I don't even know why you are arguing.. I said it works and IMO it just unnecessarily eliminates healthy foods for you. Again, success all comes down to adherence.
BTW, any chance you check out those links I posted?flowerforyou
I much prefer to see success story links than to dwell on people who failed and I'd never want to call someone out as an "example" of failure, and for that matter those are great success stories you've linked.
If you like, I'm happy to link plenty of keto/atkins/lchf success stories from other boards, but it sounds like we don't disagree it works, nor do we disagree that it's not for everyone. 0 -
From a personal standpoint, any diet that eliminates foods you love, increases the chances of failure. On top of that, any diet that can give you flu like symptoms is beyond me.
And I think this is where it largely comes down to the individual, and I agree entirely about finding something that works for you. For me, I've never experience any "flu" symptoms nor do I experience the feeling of excess energy some people get once in ketosis. I simply find it gives me much better control over my appetite and stupidly strong willpower. As for specific foods, I've never been prone to cravings nor have I had much of a sweet tooth nor do I regularly eat pasta and bread even when I'm not "dieting.' Honestly the only carb I miss is a good IPA, but I can rationalize cutting back on those for health reasons, and I'll still have the occasional nip of bourbon. All in all, I find it very easy to follow this type of diet.
But all of that said, I'd never suggest the Atkins diet is the right choice for everyone. Not even close.Does Atkins allow for pasta, rice, bread, etc. over 20 grams? That's a no. So if a person doesn't feel that they could limit themselves from those, then why bother with this diet? Eating for LIFE isn't about torture or restricting because a diet program deems it as "evil".
And I wasn't being conclusionary, I was merely stating logic since most people who go on any diet strictly do it for weight loss. Rarely do they think of sustaining the program as an after thought.
I'm always loathe to use the term "lifestyle change" because it's so over-used these days, but a diet in and of itself is never a lifestyle change. Deciding to prioritize your health is a lifestyle change, deciding you want to become a bodybuilder or achieve a "beach body" - those are lifestyle changes. Atkins, IIFYM, calorie counting and every other diet are simply tools for use in the short-term and they don't have to be sustainable in the long-term. You can change your short-term behavior (e.g., diet + exercise) as your long-term goals change, and simply because you do not decide to do something indefinitely doesn't mean you should never do it. If you simply pursue a short-term solution without committing to long-term change, you are destined to fail regardless of what program you are using. Again, this is nothing specific to Atkins; it's relevant to every school of thought when it comes to losing weight, including IIFYM and general calorie counting. If simple dieting/cutting were "lifestyle changes", conventional body builders would be making "lifestyle changes" roughly twice a year. In short, you shouldn't confuse short-term tools like the Atkins diet with a long-term goal like improving one's health.
As for eating for "torture" and deeming foods "evil", I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you probably haven't read Dr. Atkins' book nor have you been on his program for a significant period of time (correct me if I'm wrong). I can speak from experience though and say that the program is not torture for everyone, nor does Dr. Atkins characterize carbohydrates as evil. Quite to the contrary, I quite enjoy this program when cutting weight and I know many others that share the same sentiment.
Now, as for your comment:So if a person doesn't feel that they could limit themselves from those, then why bother with this diet?
I wholeheartedly agree. If someone does not feel they can give up a particular carbohydrate for a sufficient period of time, Atkins is not the plan for them. If you become miserable because you can't eat a cookie, don't do the Atkins diet. Everyone needs to find a plan they can stick with.
I think we are with each other. And no, I have not read Atkins. I tried Paleo for awhile due to my wife's gluten intolerance and i found that even too restrictive. I love my burrito's, ice cream and fruits. So low carb isnt an option for me. But my wife does have a lower carb diet (although she doesn't track).
Personally, I like these threads to learn more but more importantly, I like posters to have multiple options.0 -
You do realize that you can hit the search button and find as many failures with atkins right? I don't even know why you are arguing.. I said it works and IMO it just unnecessarily eliminates healthy foods for you. Again, success all comes down to adherence.
BTW, any chance you check out those links I posted?flowerforyou
I much prefer to see success story links than to dwell on people who failed and I'd never want to call someone out as an "example" of failure, and for that matter those are great success stories you've linked. If you like, I'm happy to link plenty of keto/atkins/lchf success stories from other boards, but it sounds like we don't disagree it works, nor do we disagree that it's not for everyone.
We are on the same page.. just have different approaches which is great. It allows for more variety in the community.0 -
Bump0
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To everyone complaining about why us "pro carbs" peeps come on here is be amuse we understand the importance of carbs.
Go research the health effects of low carb diets, like deep research. Ones not backed by the meat and dairy industry (yea I'm vegan so flipped what?).
Here's what happens on low carb. You lose weight quickly and a lot is because it is water weight that comes off. Carbs and water are like that friend you see who's always with their significant other.
Another is that is is so low carb that fiber intake is pretty low. But hey, you can just eat massive amounts of veggies correct? Sure you can buuutttt......
Your body doesn't need that much protein, the WHO recommends 5% of calories comes from protein. That's, if you are a woman....an average of 45g.
Ok so what happens to the extra protein? Well the body can't use it so it can either get rid of it or try to convert it to.......GLUCOSE. Which usually happens when carbs go bye bye. Guess where glucose comes from? Carbs. So why would I eat massive amounts of meat and fat that have very little nutrients when it's going to eventually convert to glucose when you can just eat whole foods like beans and veggies and fruits? Vitamins ya say? Guess what, our bodies can't properly absorb what's in the vitamins anyways.
And ketosis isn't healthy for us either, in fact the blood goes acidic and eventually damage organs. The body doesn't even use all the ketones but instead tries to get rid of them(gee I wonder why?) Ketosis is also found in diabetics (not insulin related), alcoholics, and starvation.
Eat properly, live longer, enjoy life.0 -
To everyone complaining about why us "pro carbs" peeps come on here is be amuse we understand the importance of carbs.
Go research the health effects of low carb diets, like deep research. Ones not backed by the meat and dairy industry (yea I'm vegan so flipped what?).
Here's what happens on low carb. You lose weight quickly and a lot is because it is water weight that comes off. Carbs and water are like that friend you see who's always with their significant other.
Another is that is is so low carb that fiber intake is pretty low. But hey, you can just eat massive amounts of veggies correct? Sure you can buuutttt......
Your body doesn't need that much protein, the WHO recommends 5% of calories comes from protein. That's, if you are a woman....an average of 45g.
Ok so what happens to the extra protein? Well the body can't use it so it can either get rid of it or try to convert it to.......GLUCOSE. Which usually happens when carbs go bye bye. Guess where glucose comes from? Carbs. So why would I eat massive amounts of meat and fat that have very little nutrients when it's going to eventually convert to glucose when you can just eat whole foods like beans and veggies and fruits? Vitamins ya say? Guess what, our bodies can't properly absorb what's in the vitamins anyways.
And ketosis isn't healthy for us either, in fact the blood goes acidic and eventually damage organs. The body doesn't even use all the ketones but instead tries to get rid of them(gee I wonder why?) Ketosis is also found in diabetics (not insulin related), alcoholics, and starvation.
Eat properly, live longer, enjoy life.
Ok. So, might you be talking about ketoacidosis? I don't believe ketosis is harmful?0 -
Low carb diets don't cause ketoacidosis. Similar terms. Very different conditions. Ketosis, itself, is not harmful.0
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To everyone complaining about why us "pro carbs" peeps come on here is be amuse we understand the importance of carbs.
Go research the health effects of low carb diets, like deep research. Ones not backed by the meat and dairy industry (yea I'm vegan so flipped what?).
Here's what happens on low carb. You lose weight quickly and a lot is because it is water weight that comes off. Carbs and water are like that friend you see who's always with their significant other.
Another is that is is so low carb that fiber intake is pretty low. But hey, you can just eat massive amounts of veggies correct? Sure you can buuutttt......
Your body doesn't need that much protein, the WHO recommends 5% of calories comes from protein. That's, if you are a woman....an average of 45g.
Ok so what happens to the extra protein? Well the body can't use it so it can either get rid of it or try to convert it to.......GLUCOSE. Which usually happens when carbs go bye bye. Guess where glucose comes from? Carbs. So why would I eat massive amounts of meat and fat that have very little nutrients when it's going to eventually convert to glucose when you can just eat whole foods like beans and veggies and fruits? Vitamins ya say? Guess what, our bodies can't properly absorb what's in the vitamins anyways.
And ketosis isn't healthy for us either, in fact the blood goes acidic and eventually damage organs. The body doesn't even use all the ketones but instead tries to get rid of them(gee I wonder why?) Ketosis is also found in diabetics (not insulin related), alcoholics, and starvation.
Eat properly, live longer, enjoy life.
Wow. Where to begin.
For one, your numbers about protein are completely off. This is obvious because you're giving a person's protein intake in terms of a percentage. Let's talk about that. Generally speaking, a person's protein intake should be calculated based on lean body mass and what sort of training they do (if any). Regardless of how many calories I eat per day, the amount of protein my body needs is roughly the same. For the sake of example, if we pretend 150g of protein is the maximum my body can take advantage of/day calculated based on my lean body mass, that's 30% of my calories at 2000 calories/day and 20% of my calories at 3000 calories per day. What does that mean? It means my percentage changes depending on my weight goals, yet the amount of protein my body needs is relatively constant regardless of whether I want to gain or lose weight. If I decide to begin bulking tomorrow, my body doesn't magically need more protein to repair muscle tissue, preserve bone integrity and all those lovely things protein is used for. Actually, it's arguable that I may need more protein when eating at a caloric deficit than maintenance in order to best preserve my lean body mass, which exacerbates this increase in percentage as my calories go lower and lower. I hate to say someone's flat out wrong, but generally speaking calculating your protein *needs* or their optimal protein intake based on your caloric intake is wrong in my opinion.
As for your body converting protein into glucose, it's possible but that's only done when your body has excess protein reserves and it's not an efficient process. Taking that further, I've seen studies that suggest that even though it potentially can happen, it doesn't happen as a practical matter. And again, this is only potentially an issue when you drastically overshoot your protein macro for the day (assuming you actually know how to calculate a proper protein macro to begin with); people following the Atkins diet or any standard keto diet rarely have this problem.
Finally, as another poster pointed out, you're thinking of ketoacidosis, but you're calling it ketosis. For someone who is telling other people to "Go research the health effects of low carb diets, like deep research," you might want to understand what you're talking about and at least get the terminology right. Everyone's body enters or approaches a mild state of ketosis while you sleep every night. Ketoacidosis is a potentially fatal condition where the pH of your blood decreases.0 -
If you can't do it for life, then don't do it. If you can't imagine yourself restricting any pasta, rice, ice cream, candy, etc. forever, then look for a different program.
Can you lose weight on it? Sure, but you can on ANY CALORIE DEFICIT program.
EDIT: For people who are diabetic, this may work for them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Point of Atkins if you do it properly is to work up to maintenance in a way that you can "do it for life".0 -
If you can't do it for life, then don't do it. If you can't imagine yourself restricting any pasta, rice, ice cream, candy, etc. forever, then look for a different program.
Can you lose weight on it? Sure, but you can on ANY CALORIE DEFICIT program.
EDIT: For people who are diabetic, this may work for them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Point of Atkins if you do it properly is to work up to maintenance in a way that you can "do it for life".
True, but there are less restrictive ways to accomplish this, depending on what's more important to you. Personally, induction was hell. I hated it. Others may not miss bread and cake, but I did. It wasn't in the form of cravings, either, because sugar cravings weren't there. It was in the form of absolute boredom in the lack of variety. Others think there's plenty of variety, but they're not me. I like a wide range of foods. For someone who isn't a big salad eater and who loves tacos, this wasn't the plan for me. Additionally, I found that knowing I wasn't supposed to have some type of food made me want it that much more. I'm rebellious by nature and if you tell me I can't, then I will. This dicotomy between "good and evil" really damaged my relationship with food. It has taken about a year to repair it. So, yeah, I hated it. Others like it and find it effective. I didn't.0 -
As I understand it, the second we start building up any glucose stores at all, those molecules bond with water (like, a lot of it), which explains the huge drop in weight we all experience the first week or two, as well as likely those 4 lbs. you immediately gained when you ate any carbs at all. From the science perspective, it most likely wasn't fat. (I'm saying that not to argue with Atkins, just to make you feel better if you feel like OMG I gained 4 lbs in a ridiculously short period of time.)0
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(Sorry, I was trying to reply to Lisa's post up-thread...not sure why it's sending my posts to the end...)0
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I'm on day 4 of induction, which I started before doing enough research, and now that I have I am having serious second thoughts...It's not that I can't do it, although I really can't afford the cost of all the meat I have to eat on this diet, and I don't like the carbon footprint associated with it...I can do it for a few weeks, but if this is truly about a "lifestyle change" there's no point, because I can't sustain this and don't really want to. If, once induction is done and the huge water weight loss is finished, I'll only be losing a pound or two a week anyway, I know I can do that on a standard MFP calorie-counting diet...so I just don't know.
On the other hand, I don't think I have ever in my life gone 4 full days without even the slightest bit of refined sugar, so THAT I think I will try to sustain. But I think I will need to bring back some healthy complex carbs--my oatmeal, my brown rice, that stuff--and just keep eating the veggies and a little less meat. Any "diet" that tells me I need to limit the amount of fresh veggies I can eat just feels sort of wrong...(for me. Wrong for me. Everyone's different.)
I have to say, though, that I appreciate this thread; it's been one of the clearest conversations showing both sides of the question that I've found anywhere. Thanks to all who are part of it.0 -
Hey JKBJenn, just wanted to let you know it's entirely possible to do a low-carb diet without eating any meat! I don't know much about Atkins specifically, but I'm following a vegetarian ketogenic plan and I find it quite sustainable (see reddit's vegetarian keto page for oodles of info and inspiration). You end up eating a lot of dairy, but if you buy grass-fed when able it's a much smaller carbon footprint. And veggies are cheap! Do I miss carbs? Yup. But when I'm able to feast upon hot buttery kale, zucchini lasagna oozing with cheese, and gobs of guacamole, it makes up for it. Plus I have a bit of dark chocolate every now and then. So anyway, fear not, you CAN do low-carb on the cheap and without a huge footprint! 0
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RE Atkins and vegetarianism.
I'm on Atkins induction and I'm a vegan! It is possible! Admittedly, it's not true induction, because I've been eating nuts and some chickpeas every day, but I am still managing to get enough calories and keeping my net carbs around 20g.
Sesame seeds and tofu are a winner!0 -
To everyone complaining about why us "pro carbs" peeps come on here is be amuse we understand the importance of carbs.
Go research the health effects of low carb diets, like deep research. Ones not backed by the meat and dairy industry (yea I'm vegan so flipped what?).
Here's what happens on low carb. You lose weight quickly and a lot is because it is water weight that comes off. Carbs and water are like that friend you see who's always with their significant other.
Another is that is is so low carb that fiber intake is pretty low. But hey, you can just eat massive amounts of veggies correct? Sure you can buuutttt......
Your body doesn't need that much protein, the WHO recommends 5% of calories comes from protein. That's, if you are a woman....an average of 45g.
Ok so what happens to the extra protein? Well the body can't use it so it can either get rid of it or try to convert it to.......GLUCOSE. Which usually happens when carbs go bye bye. Guess where glucose comes from? Carbs. So why would I eat massive amounts of meat and fat that have very little nutrients when it's going to eventually convert to glucose when you can just eat whole foods like beans and veggies and fruits? Vitamins ya say? Guess what, our bodies can't properly absorb what's in the vitamins anyways.
And ketosis isn't healthy for us either, in fact the blood goes acidic and eventually damage organs. The body doesn't even use all the ketones but instead tries to get rid of them(gee I wonder why?) Ketosis is also found in diabetics (not insulin related), alcoholics, and starvation.
Eat properly, live longer, enjoy life.
The water weight loss is in the 1st week or 2- after that, you are not continually losing water weight. Maybe 5lbs comes off from water.
Fiber intake? Easy. Avocados, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, lentils- all high fiber, and there are a lot more of those out there.
Protein, as has been mentioned, is based on your LBM and requirements for athletic activities. I target 30% of my daily total for protein, around 170g.
It's been an easy option for me- I do miss my IPA, but that doesn't stop me from having some on the weekends, and if I go over my carb count, it's no big deal.
I was stalled for almost a year after dropping 50lbs. I weigh everything, count everything, was eating 500 under my TDEE, and didn't lose. I started low carb last August and I'm down 24lbs, I enjoy what I eat, and I can see myself doing this for a long time.0 -
It's been an easy option for me- I do miss my IPA, but that doesn't stop me from having some on the weekends, and if I go over my carb count, it's no big deal.
:drinker:
That's the one food I've kicked completely that I actually miss, but it's also the one that historically gets me into the most dietary trouble.0
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