"Unhealthy food" detrimental to muscle gain?

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Replies

  • Sreneesa
    Sreneesa Posts: 1,170 Member
    Ive been known to hit up McDonalds to fulfill macros. Ill get like a grilled chicken ranch burger or a deluxe bacon quarter pounder or something with bacon. Works out for me. Usually when I do get a high cal sandwich such as this its because I'm trying to fill up the days calories and macros.

    I also do subway a lot BLT or whatever. As long as it fits your cals shouldn't be a big deal.
  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,899 Member
    If you're exercising heavy, and eating over your TDEE, you're going to gain both muscle and fat no matter what you eat. Does it really matter how much of that is protein?

    no.

    We don't seem to know exactly what "optimal" protein intake for hypertrophy is, but that doesn't mean it is zero. Personally, I'd stick with the experts' best guesses in this area and target the 1 gram of protein per pound of lean muscle mass. That doesn't mean that not hitting it will "kill our your gains" either, but I like meat so it isn't difficult for me to go a bit over either.
  • googlebear123
    googlebear123 Posts: 42
    in no way did i imply eat zero protein. no was just the shortest answer.

    if you are eating sufficient calories then your probably getting all the protein you need as well as all the micronutrients you need.

    more protein doesnt equate to more muscle hpertrophy.
  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,899 Member
    in no way did i imply eat zero protein. no was just the shortest answer.

    if you are eating sufficient calories then your probably getting all the protein you need as well as all the micronutrients you need.

    more protein doesnt equate to more muscle hpertrophy.

    Fair enough. I wouldn't advise people to not worry about protein though because peoples' diets vary quite a bit. As I said above, I never have a problem hitting my protein macro, but that's just me. For vegans and those who simply enjoy more carbs it can be a heck of a lot more difficult. If the OP is eating more margarita pizzas than double burgers, for example, that could be a problem.

    I also disagree with the more protein point as if there is an optimal level of protein intake, then there would be more muscle hypertrophy up to that optimal point (wherever it may actually fall). Once at the optimal level, however, no more gains would be expected. Hence "optimal."

    Finally, I strongly disagree with your point on micronutrients. If the OP is eating nothing but fast food burgers and fries, then there is no way the OP would be getting sufficient micronutrients and fiber.
  • baptiste565
    baptiste565 Posts: 590 Member
    U weigh 138. Eat everything.
  • toddis
    toddis Posts: 941 Member
    I lurk on these forums from time to time, and I see these flame wars almost as often as I see the "rub pizza on or boff the user above" threads. The eat clean crap annoys me, but I also get confused by the bulk concept when it comes to macros.

    If you're exercising heavy, and eating over your TDEE, you're going to gain both muscle and fat no matter what you eat. Does it really matter how much of that is protein?

    There is a guesstimate of the optimal protein intake as Sun has said. There are various types of bulks. You don't necessarily have to get all chunky to gain muscle. Increased caloric needs mean in some cases increased micronutrient needs. This eat whatever and you'll get mad gains is a bunch of whooey.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    The trans-fat are really ubiquitous in fast/junk food though.

    That is not true. It was 10 years ago+. Non-natural trans fats have been voluntarily removed from virtually all foods, there are only a few stragglers. Products containing non-naturally occurring trans fats are on the verge of being banned in the US, the process is already underway.

    Naturally occurring trans fats are not thought to be harmful.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    Increased caloric needs mean in some cases increased micronutrient needs. This eat whatever and you'll get mad gains is a bunch of whooey.

    The increase in food quantity MORE than makes up for any increased micronutrient needs.

    You eat really, really, really screwed up if you've got a micronutrient deficiency while bulking.
  • googlebear123
    googlebear123 Posts: 42
    1393634_550950764959781_2017084461_n.jpg

    balanced diet + ice cream and pizza + counting calories = win.

    i only get 100g protein if im lucky, im predominantly vegetarian now, but have gone from 300 - 100g protein and everywhere inbetween and seen no difference at all. minimum recomended intake of protein is only ~50g

    im not advoctaing IIFYM YOLO diet of burgers and chips. but thay can be part of a balanced diet, and wont affect muscle gain.

    balanced diet, small calorie surplus, intensity of training will give you results OP. thats all any novice needs to know.

    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout
    this is the programme i'm running, its given me great gains thus far. its a modified SL.
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member
    Good thread! I do love my junk food. I do. It's just I try and limit it, because it takes up so much macro space. I'm not afraid of sodium, cholesterol, bring on the sat fat blah blah. I'm European after all.

    It's the trans fats that worry me, they aren't so ubiquitous in England but still I've read some scary stuff about weird fats and their link to cancer. I would still eat it, just not very often.

    Yes, the bulking thing, I remember Lyles diet now, and how it was more about the calorie surplus than the protein surplus.

    Mmmm quarter pounder with cheese.....
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member
    U weigh 138. Eat everything.

    I just disagree with this philosophy. 138lb guy could go way over the 3500 per week max excess in just one visit to mac ds. If the max you can gain is .5lb muscle per week and .5lb tag along fat=3500 cals Divided by 7, =500 per day. On top of his what? 2000 tdee....the rest would go to fat. It's so easy to go over 2500.

    Then he'd be like 90% of the people at my gym, muscley but no definition and too much body fat. Or just too much body fat on no muscle. Big and bulky. Skinny fat. Surely most people want definition right?

    That's the beauty of this website, you can learn, log, control and sculpt your body with as little time in deficit, and as little deficit as possible. Deficit sucks on every level.
  • googlebear123
    googlebear123 Posts: 42
    IIFYM YOLO!!! :D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtxyS8synKY
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member
    The trans-fat are really ubiquitous in fast/junk food though.

    That is not true. It was 10 years ago+. Non-natural trans fats have been voluntarily removed from virtually all foods, there are only a few stragglers. Products containing non-naturally occurring trans fats are on the verge of being banned in the US, the process is already underway.

    Naturally occurring trans fats are not thought to be harmful.

    Excellent. Thanks for this answer, I was hoping this would happen to those nasty things. So we are safe now? Eat all foods and live for ever?:drinker:
  • Kate1278
    Kate1278 Posts: 1
    I mean, evidently if you eat too much "unhealthy" food it won't be all that great for your health.. but eating fast food occasionally and picking options which more closely match your goals (in your case, more protein) shouldn't hurt anything.

    Whilst not the healthiest, Mcdonald's/Wendy's don't have an automatic "NO MUSCLE" button. :)
  • quixoteQ
    quixoteQ Posts: 484
    Thanks for your responses.
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
    The most recent recommendation for protein during calorie restriction is 1.1 to 1.4g/lb lean body mass. As far as how much you need for bulking, I'd imagine it is probably close to that. As long as there are plenty of energy calories available, the body is very good at using the protein specifically for muscle repair/hypertrophy.
  • googlebear123
    googlebear123 Posts: 42
    The most recent recommendation for protein during calorie restriction is 1.1 to 1.4g/lb lean body mass.

    by who?

    The Institute of Medicine’s protein RDAs are calculated using 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. This means an adult who weighs 68 kilograms needs at least 54 grams of protein each day.

    Athletes generally need more protein than the RDA to help build, maintain and repair muscle mass in response to training. A review published in a 2011 edition of the “Journal of Sports Sciences” suggests that athletes may benefit from consuming 1.8 to 2.0 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, especially during times of intense training. A study published in a 2011 edition of the “Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition” reports that consuming more than 2.0 grams of protein per kilogram does not provide additional benefits for athletes.


    2 gram protein per kg bw > 1g per lb and thats in highly trained individuals.
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
    The most recent recommendation for protein during calorie restriction is 1.1 to 1.4g/lb lean body mass.

    by who?

    The Institute of Medicine’s protein RDAs are calculated using 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. This means an adult who weighs 68 kilograms needs at least 54 grams of protein each day.

    Athletes generally need more protein than the RDA to help build, maintain and repair muscle mass in response to training. A review published in a 2011 edition of the “Journal of Sports Sciences” suggests that athletes may benefit from consuming 1.8 to 2.0 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, especially during times of intense training. A study published in a 2011 edition of the “Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition” reports that consuming more than 2.0 grams of protein per kilogram does not provide additional benefits for athletes.


    2 gram protein per kg bw > 1g per lb and thats in highly trained individuals.

    Here you go: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24092765

    "A Systematic Review of Dietary Protein During Caloric Restriction in Resistance Trained Lean Athletes: A Case for Higher Intakes."
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    You can bulk the healthy way or the unhealthy way (aka transfats , cholesterol , sodium) which pizzas/burgers have lots of :) It will reflect upn your heart/liver health in the long run=)




    * except for the trans fats.

    Come on then! Now's your chance to educate us on junk food that doesn't contain harmful fats! I'm interested....really. Set me free from my healthy ways.

    Define unhealthy fat.
  • googlebear123
    googlebear123 Posts: 42
    he aims of this review were to evaluate the effects of dietary protein on body composition in energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes and to provide protein recommendations for these athletes
    Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3-3.1g/kg of FFM scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness.

    op is not calorie restricted nor is he a trained athlete.
  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,899 Member
    he aims of this review were to evaluate the effects of dietary protein on body composition in energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes and to provide protein recommendations for these athletes
    Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3-3.1g/kg of FFM scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness.

    op is not calorie restricted nor is he a trained athlete.

    This is an interesting example of the grey area that I mentioned above though. We don't know precisely how much protein is optimal. We have some targets and educated guesses (which are clearly way above what standard dietary guidelines suggest). Personally, I'd rather get a bit too much as it seems pretty harmless for healthy individuals.
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
    he aims of this review were to evaluate the effects of dietary protein on body composition in energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes and to provide protein recommendations for these athletes
    Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3-3.1g/kg of FFM scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness.

    op is not calorie restricted nor is he a trained athlete.

    Why do you think that would be cause for concern? And the term was 'resistance-trained athletes'. If you noted, the body fat cut offs were 35% for women and 23% for men. Not really what one thinks of when one thinks of an 'athlete'. I think it simply meant that these were people who engage in regular lifting, not Olympic champions.
  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    For some, ie me, eating all the foods would fast lead me to the road of over fat.

    I was still hungry on my bulk which was 2/300 cals over 1750 net. I swear I have the appetite of a 6'4" man.

    Saying that though, this guy is pretty slim which means that he is probably struggling to eat over maintenance.

    Is that correctomondo OP?

    Correctomondo you are :)

    I struggle to eat over 2500 calories a day, and that's without exercise. On a lifting day, I generally eat 3000+ calories. Rarely do I ever go over 3500 calories a day, so I guess I don't have to worry about eating McDonald's and Wendy's lol. Right now, as I type, I am eating vietnamese spring rolls. Greasy, but delicious :)

    Thanks everyone for your advice, I greatly appreciate it all! Really motivates me to eat more! Before having an account on this site, I would eat only around 1500 - 2000 calories a day. But now, it is more like 2500 - 3500 a day. The only way I could overeat (aka. 3500+ calories), is if I spend the whole day smoking weed and eating "unhealthy" foods.
  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    The most recent recommendation for protein during calorie restriction is 1.1 to 1.4g/lb lean body mass. As far as how much you need for bulking, I'd imagine it is probably close to that. As long as there are plenty of energy calories available, the body is very good at using the protein specifically for muscle repair/hypertrophy.

    So for me...

    138.3 lbs x 1.1 = 152.13 required grams of protein a day
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
    The most recent recommendation for protein during calorie restriction is 1.1 to 1.4g/lb lean body mass. As far as how much you need for bulking, I'd imagine it is probably close to that. As long as there are plenty of energy calories available, the body is very good at using the protein specifically for muscle repair/hypertrophy.

    So for me...

    138.3 lbs x 1.1 = 152.13 grams of protein a day
    No, your lean body mass. What you weigh minus the fat. Do you have any idea what your % body fat is?
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member
    For some, ie me, eating all the foods would fast lead me to the road of over fat.

    I was still hungry on my bulk which was 2/300 cals over 1750 net. I swear I have the appetite of a 6'4" man.

    Saying that though, this guy is pretty slim which means that he is probably struggling to eat over maintenance.

    Is that correctomondo OP?

    Correctomondo you are :)

    I struggle to eat over 2500 calories a day, and that's without exercise. On a lifting day, I generally eat 3000+ calories. Rarely do I ever go over 3500 calories a day, so I guess I don't have to worry about eating McDonald's and Wendy's lol. Right now, as I type, I am eating vietnamese spring rolls. Greasy, but delicious :)

    Thanks everyone for your advice, I greatly appreciate it all! Really motivates me to eat more! Before having an account on this site, I would eat only around 1500 - 2000 calories a day. But now, it is more like 2500 - 3500 a day. The only way I could overeat (aka. 3500+ calories), is if I spend the whole day smoking weed and eating "unhealthy" foods.

    Hi Dern

    Just double check all your numbers again. I think you should be eating 3500 a WEEK over your total daily energy expenditure (go to Scooby's calculator and put in your height, weight ageand exercise level).

    That's 500 over a day. I would hate to see you get unnecessarily fat! You'd feel awful and then have to cut for longer. You're going to put fat on anyway so my philosophy is keep it to a minimum. Every day in deficit is a sad day for the body.

    Lifting actually doesn't burn many calories for a hour. But it's after effects are astounding. I use the strength training setting on MFP in the cardio section of 'exercise' and it's about right. Anyone else find this?

    Do minimum cardio on your bulk, if you struggle to eat and are low weight.

    Edited: at your height and weight I put in moderate exercise and came up with 2549. So 3000 a day sounds about right. You must lift heavy though, to failure. Protein I'd guess to be about 125g per day to be safe, there's no harm in going over, then it's 2500 of anything else, but I think if you're struggling to eat, try and get as much high cal high nutrition stuff you can in.

    I'm not a nutritionist or prof trainer btw. These are the rules I've used for my bulking and found success with, I'm still learning stuff all the time.

    Good luck and keep us posted please. Try and get photos and measurements and track your numbers so we can observe your happy progress!

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