What benefits to lifting without a calorie surplus??

amandarunning

Since being on MFP I have read much about lifting/heavy lifting for women and the benefits. I also read about the need to be in a calorie surplus in order to bulk and (I assume) deficit to cut. I like muscles and am intrigued my doing more resistance training as my exercise is/has always been VERY cardio dominated. I've always loved cardio and hated weights - through boredom (lack of knowledge perhaps) and also can push through discomfort with cardio but struggle to do so with weights so never quite get the same buzz. I'm quite strong and have completed the 100 push up challenge a couple of times and am currently 7 (long!) days away from completing Insanity. So I'm beginning to think about what to do next and today have written a 2 month programme which has a blend of Insanity, Spinervals (turbo), T25 and dumbbell workouts (have a small gym at home).

What I do know, however, is that I won't eat a surplus! Too many years spent trying to maintain a lean shape to start actively eating enough to gain fat! So...what do I gain from adding some specific lifting workouts, or should I just continue a blend of cardio and body weight exercises?

In summary (!!) - what do I gain if I start lifting on a slight deficit (my normal calories in/out regime)?

Thanks in advance.

BerryH

When you lose weight you'll inevitably lose some muscle mass along with fat, whatever you do. Lifting while at a calorific deficit will stop you losing as great a percentage from muscle.

RGv2

To start....

You can have signifigant strength gains while in a deficit, but lifting in a deficit helps you to maintain muscle mass. While eating in a deficit you lose water, fat, and LBM. Lifting helps prevent that loss in muscle mass, so when you lose mass, it's mostly fat and not so much muscle.

erickirb

Lifting while in a deficit along with adequate protein will help retain the muscle you already have, while getting stronger. without lifting a larger % of your weight loss will come from lean muscle, meaning you will have a higher BF% at every weight while losing if you don't also lift. So if your goal was 125lbs, without lifting you may be 23%BF%, but with lifting you may be at 19%, so even though the weight is the same, you will look and feel quite different. Or if you goal was 23% bf, you may hit it at 130lbs, instead of 125.

Keep in mind that it is much easier to maintain the muscle you already have than it is to build new muscle once you get to your goal weight.

grantdumas7

In addition to what everyone else posted it can prevent osteoporosis.

jimmmer

Well, the obvious advantage is you'll be stronger.

As in actually stronger. Not strength-endurance (as in high rep body-weight exercises). Although you can get A LOT stronger with bodyweight exercises as long as you keep the difficulty level high enough that you can only manage 4-8 reps of any given exercise.

You'll more than likely increase your bone density by placing your skeletal system under load. At the very least you'll mitigate the bone-wasting effects of aging. You'll also retain more muscle-mass as you lose weight than you would without a progressive strength training routine. Which means a higher ratio of weight lost would be fat (which I'm guessing is the real reason most people want to lose weight anyway).

I don't really see a downside (apart from no really appreciable gains in muscle mass beyond the initial newbie gains). So if you want to add a bit of muscle (as opposed to increasing muscle definition) then you'll need to eat a surplus at some point.

ETA - was interrupted at work, so basically what everyone else had already typed above!

SanteMulberry

Bump

jorralee

Well, the obvious advantage is you'll be stronger.

As in actually stronger. Not strength-endurance (as in high rep body-weight exercises). Although you can get A LOT stronger with bodyweight exercises as long as you keep the difficulty level high enough that you can only manage 4-8 reps of any given exercise.

You'll more than likely increase your bone density by placing your skeletal system under load. At the very least you'll mitigate the bone-wasting effects of aging. You'll also retain more muscle-mass as you lose weight than you would without a progressive strength training routine. Which means a higher ratio of weight lost would be fat (which I'm guessing is the real reason most people want to lose weight anyway).

I don't really see a downside (apart from no really appreciable gains in muscle mass beyond the initial newbie gains). So if you want to add a bit of muscle (as opposed to increasing muscle definition) then you'll need to eat a surplus at some point.

ETA - was interrupted at work, so basically what everyone else had already typed above!

To get stronger in the long run you would eventually need a caloric surplus as well or you will plateau after a while and it will be very hard or almost impossible to get stronger at a certain level.

Huffdogg

Helps maintain existing muscle and improve strength.

SezxyStef

Benefits to liftng at a small deficet or at TDEE for a woman are numerous.

I personally have dropped 2sizes (with 5lbs lost) (I wear a size 8)
I am leaner and firmer everywere
I am stronger (I can now do chinups again)
My butt looks like it's 25-30
I am losing fat and very little muscle
I may weigh 165 but I look like 130 (or so I am told)
not to mention feeling great.


I didn't bother adding in what others had said but that too...

Huffdogg

To get stronger in the long run you would eventually need a caloric surplus as well or you will plateau after a while and it will be very hard or almost impossible to get stronger at a certain level.

Yeah but this takes a LONG time to reach. I've been lifting heavy compounds, PL-type training, for a couple of years without really running a surplus for more than 2 weeks (off the wagon twice), and have continued to make slow but steady gains in strength while continuing to lower my average weight.

If this weren't true you wouldn't have guys pulling 600 lb deadlifts in the 181 weight class.

3laine75

You'll strengthen the muscles you already have and may even gain a little at deficit, through newbie gains. If you get enough protein you should also maintain most of the muscle you already have. And it's very good for your bones too

ETA: I lifted at deficit for a good 5 months before having to up calories.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

TavistockToad

Benefits to liftng at a small deficet or at TDEE for a woman are numerous.

I personally have dropped 2sizes (with 5lbs lost) (I wear a size 8)
I am leaner and firmer everywere
I am stronger (I can now do chinups again)
My butt looks like it's 25-30
I am losing fat and very little muscle
I may weigh 165 but I look like 130 (or so I am told)
not to mention feeling great.


I didn't bother adding in what others had said but that too...

all of this plus strong bones so you dont snap like a twig when you're 80 and fall over....

Ely82010

In addition to what everyone else posted it can prevent osteoporosis.

Strength training helps to keep bones strong and to REDUCE the chances of getting osteoporosis, but it will not totally PREVENT osteoporosis.

amandarunning

Wow thanks everyone - some very useful information and enough to make me commit to a 3 days a week lifting routine. I've looked at http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/dumbbell-only-home-or-gym-fullbody-workout.html as I don't have a barbell and am planning to start next week after Insanity is done.

Does that look a good enough start point for me?

I'm currently eating higher protein and lower carbs and there or thereabouts my TDEE (got some more serious reading to do on that) but do burn significant calories with my cardio. A typical day will have an easy 45 minute turbo spin on waking (warms my body up!), then play golf and then Insanity. My plan would be to replace the Insanity element with the lifting.

I don't have weight to lose as such - never weigh myself mind you! I started Insanity as was finding my shape was changing through the ageing process (I'm 49) and hated the extra lumpy bits. Insanity has indeed shed those so I'm looking to improve further AND maintain that as the ageing process continue to take its toll!

cwolfman13

- preserve you existing muscle mass

- improved body composition

- substantial strength gains can be made without adding muscle mass

- increased bone density

- Burning more calories at rest while your body repairs your muscles

- Maintaining a higher running metabolism overall

- You just feel awesome when you're pushing and pulling weight.

grantdumas7

In addition to what everyone else posted it can prevent osteoporosis.

Strength training helps to keep bones strong and to REDUCE the chances of getting osteoporosis, but it will not totally PREVENT osteoporosis.

forgot to add help: So, help prevent osteoporosis.

kelsully

I have no desire to build mass, I have a level of strength that works for my life as I can help my husband move heavy stuff when necessary, do my daily chores and carry heavy stuff. I do a degree of strength training to keep the muscles I have and improve the definition of the muscles.

I do not enjoy weight training like I do running. I keep weight training/strength work in my schedule to help me reach goals in running, look defined in a swim suit etc...I have no other strength goals unless someone can tell me how being able to squat more than I already can etc will help me qualify for Boston.

Point is, decide what you want to gain. If you want more strength, more mass, etc then you may need to eat at a surplus, if you are looking to maintain the strength and shape you have, then I wouldn't worry to much about changing your calorie goals.

jimmmer

Well, the obvious advantage is you'll be stronger.

As in actually stronger. Not strength-endurance (as in high rep body-weight exercises). Although you can get A LOT stronger with bodyweight exercises as long as you keep the difficulty level high enough that you can only manage 4-8 reps of any given exercise.

You'll more than likely increase your bone density by placing your skeletal system under load. At the very least you'll mitigate the bone-wasting effects of aging. You'll also retain more muscle-mass as you lose weight than you would without a progressive strength training routine. Which means a higher ratio of weight lost would be fat (which I'm guessing is the real reason most people want to lose weight anyway).

I don't really see a downside (apart from no really appreciable gains in muscle mass beyond the initial newbie gains). So if you want to add a bit of muscle (as opposed to increasing muscle definition) then you'll need to eat a surplus at some point.

ETA - was interrupted at work, so basically what everyone else had already typed above!

To get stronger in the long run you would eventually need a caloric surplus as well or you will plateau after a while and it will be very hard or almost impossible to get stronger at a certain level.

Over what sort of timescale though?

If the OP sticks with it for a few years and finds that she can no longer increase any of her metrics, then she can either attempt to tweak her programming to provide better recovery and cns-adaptation, or she may decide that by that point she would be comfortable eating a bit more to achieve whatever her goals are by then.

Let's not forget that goals are really moving targets and those of us that have been around the block a few times have adapted our training methodologies and goals multiple times by now.

But yeah, as per Jerry and Huff, you can get a bucketload stronger without adding muscle. The human body is an amazing adaptive machine and as long as you don't do stupid stuff to it and burn it out, you can coax strength out of it for a good long while.

Huffdogg

I have no desire to build mass, I have a level of strength that works for my life as I can help my husband move heavy stuff when necessary, do my daily chores and carry heavy stuff. I do a degree of strength training to keep the muscles I have and improve the definition of the muscles.

I do not enjoy weight training like I do running. I keep weight training/strength work in my schedule to help me reach goals in running, look defined in a swim suit etc...I have no other strength goals unless someone can tell me how being able to squat more than I already can etc will help me qualify for Boston.

Point is, decide what you want to gain. If you want more strength, more mass, etc then you may need to eat at a surplus, if you are looking to maintain the strength and shape you have, then I wouldn't worry to much about changing your calorie goals.

Any sports coach worth a damn will tell you that a stronger athlete is a better athlete. A higher baseline strength level means longer activity before onset of fatigue, longer stride length, and less postural issues related to running.

SashleyA

Benefits to liftng at a small deficet or at TDEE for a woman are numerous.

I personally have dropped 2sizes (with 5lbs lost) (I wear a size 8)
I am leaner and firmer everywere
I am stronger (I can now do chinups again)
My butt looks like it's 25-30
I am losing fat and very little muscle
I may weigh 165 but I look like 130 (or so I am told)
not to mention feeling great.


I didn't bother adding in what others had said but that too...

This. It's a wonderful feeling to actually feel muscles and see them move. I have always weighed significantly more than I look because of muscles. When comparing other people my height to my weight, I tend to be about 2 sizes smaller than them. I feel better when I do strength training than when I do just cardio (don't get me wrong, I like cardio, but I don't feel that wonderful soreness of having done something without weights).

kelsully

I have no desire to build mass, I have a level of strength that works for my life as I can help my husband move heavy stuff when necessary, do my daily chores and carry heavy stuff. I do a degree of strength training to keep the muscles I have and improve the definition of the muscles.

I do not enjoy weight training like I do running. I keep weight training/strength work in my schedule to help me reach goals in running, look defined in a swim suit etc...I have no other strength goals unless someone can tell me how being able to squat more than I already can etc will help me qualify for Boston.

Point is, decide what you want to gain. If you want more strength, more mass, etc then you may need to eat at a surplus, if you are looking to maintain the strength and shape you have, then I wouldn't worry to much about changing your calorie goals.

Any sports coach worth a damn will tell you that a stronger athlete is a better athlete. A higher baseline strength level means longer activity before onset of fatigue, longer stride length, and less postural issues related to running.

This is why I still incorporate strength work...but to a specific goal. My point is that the OP should identify her specific goalgoals for her weight training so she can decide if she needs a surplus (building mass) or not (maintaining LBM)...without a goal in mind it is tough to answer...I do not want more mass so I will not add to a surplus...

WalkingAlong

So you can get yourself up off the toilet at age 80, or up off the floor if you fall, or to prevent falling, and if you do fall to prevent breaking a bone.