Rcomp question

Fithealthyforlife

Looking for advice for a friend...

Can a person with low bodyfat (say a guy in the single digits or a woman in the 12-15% range) gain muscle at a sustainable pace long-term via a "recomp" and eating proper macros/micros? Or will the body eventually "burn out" and muscle gains stall due to lack of energy?

I'm not looking for hearsay, but for actual people who have tried it...did you succeed if you tried it?

Thanks!

michellekicks

Well math would dictate logically that muscle gains would eventually stop since you can't draw energy from fat and add muscle indefinitely. If you ate at TDEE and lift for gains, you could add some new muscle tissue over time (not much, since there isn't much surplus) but eventually that level of intake would be a deficit under the new lean mass amount, especially as fat mass would decrease and be able to provide less energy for the body to use in the process.

Over time you'd have to keep adding calories and do basically a lean bulk to keep seeing gains in size or strength.

Fithealthyforlife

Well math would dictate logically that muscle gains would eventually stop since you can't draw energy from fat and add muscle indefinitely. If you ate at TDEE and lift for gains, you could add some new muscle tissue over time (not much, since there isn't much surplus) but eventually that level of intake would be a deficit under the new lean mass amount, especially as fat mass would decrease and be able to provide less energy for the body to use in the process.

Over time you'd have to keep adding calories and do basically a lean bulk to keep seeing gains in size or strength.

That totally makes sense, and is exactly what I was thinking...couldn't have said it any better myself!

I don't think I need any further replies, other than mybe a few from people with hands-on experience.

Fithealthyforlife

Honestly, that line of reasoning essentially explains the phenomenon of "newbie gains" as well! I love it.

michellekicks

Yeah I think newbie gains come not only from the energy availability of a higher fat mass, but also from the fact that untrained muscles won't be storing as much glycogen and water, so the initial "lean mass" increase isn't just new muscle tissue but water increases as well. Since lean mass and "fat free mass" can be used *almost* interchangeably (I believe lean mass is fat free mass - bone mass) anything gained is considered "lean" but not necessarily new muscle tissue.

Fithealthyforlife

Yeah I think newbie gains come not only from the energy availability of a higher fat mass, but also from the fact that untrained muscles won't be storing as much glycogen and water, so the initial "lean mass" increase isn't just new muscle tissue but water increases as well. Since lean mass and "fat free mass" can be used *almost* interchangeably (I believe lean mass is fat free mass - bone mass) anything gained is considered "lean" but not necessarily new muscle tissue.

Yeah...and I think given enough calories/macros, "newbie gains" could probably be kept up almost indefinitely. Like you say, it'd be a super slow, lean bulk at or slightly above theoretical meaintenance. But if the person's bodyfat drops too low AND they don't eat enough, forget it. That's why I stalled in the past at 6% bodyfat and eating under 2500 cal per day. I kept losing muscle!

MickeS

Bump out of interest and the fact that their is people doing recomp on my FL that seems successful.

sijomial

Hands-on experience...
I'm doing a recomp but not from a low body fat percentage - I'm about 18% at the moment and have no great desire to get lower than 15%. I best fit in the "returning from layoff" category of people that can get good results in a small deficit or at maintenance (strength at start of year was about 50% of lifetime best through injury and I'm now back to about 90%).

From March-Oct last year I lost 7.7lbs of fat and gained 3.5lbs of LBM (roughly half the time at deficit and half the time at maintenance).

I chose recomp as decreasing body fat percentage is way down my list of priorities, I'm really happy at this weight and I'm looking for something sustainable long term.

Every credible source I read says that recomp will stall out when you are lean or reach close to your training potential. So if you are already lean and not a begineer/returning from layoff/taking naughty supplements then the accepted wisdom is that you will be "spinning your wheels".

This is a balanced article (if a little long-winded!) - http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-to-build-muscle-and-lose-fat/

Fithealthyforlife

Hands-on experience...
I'm doing a recomp but not from a low body fat percentage - I'm about 18% at the moment and have no great desire to get lower than 15%. I best fit in the "returning from layoff" category of people that can get good results in a small deficit or at maintenance (strength at start of year was about 50% of lifetime best through injury and I'm now back to about 90%).

From March-Oct last year I lost 7.7lbs of fat and gained 3.5lbs of LBM (roughly half the time at deficit and half the time at maintenance).

I chose recomp as decreasing body fat percentage is way down my list of priorities, I'm really happy at this weight and I'm looking for something sustainable long term.

Every credible source I read says that recomp will stall out when you are lean or reach close to your training potential. So if you are already lean and not a begineer/returning from layoff/taking naughty supplements then the accepted wisdom is that you will be "spinning your wheels".

This is a balanced article (if a little long-winded!) - http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-to-build-muscle-and-lose-fat/

Great info, thanks! As far as stalling goes, it can definitely happen if you end up not eating enough to support your LBM level (trust me, I was there many years ago before I knew about bulk/cut/recomp/maintenance and proper calories/macros). But I also realize in hindsight that the body gives warning signals when that's happening. I just didn't know how to interpret them.

And thanks for the article. It basically shatters the myth that a person can't gain muscle at or near maintenance (depending of course on energy output and stored energy in fat).

I think that for a very lean person, a recomp, the closest acceptable equivalent to a "recomp" is probably a super slow bulk where they eat just enough to support the exercise they're doing, and no more. But it's still a recomp of sorts, since body fat percentage would theoretically drop (since they're not gaining much or any fat in the process). They just have to eat a bit more to pull it off.

I also think that your average person who works out and gains like 5 lbs of muscle over a year is likely either recomping...or eating at a surplus without realizing...depending on the individual and the exact circumstances (i.e. whether there is fat gain or maintenance of existing fat reserves in the case of a lean person...or fat maintenance or loss in the case of an overweight person).