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TDEE vs NEAT

SezxyStefSezxyStef Member Posts: 15,236 Member Member Posts: 15,236 Member
I have been reading in the forums a lot lately people saying this...

"I use TDEE-20% but I calculated my TDEE at Sednetary and eat my exercise calories back"

Well my typically response to that statement is "You are doing it wrong" which always ends up in a debate about semantics etc...

Not to be nit picky but that is not using the TDEE method and when you this you have the potential to confuse people who are new and asking questions and trying to get educatd

TDEE by Definition is Total Daily Energy Expenditure which is

"The total daily energy expenditure (TEE) is an important calculation in the determination of the overall dietary and exercise practices of any person. The amount of energy needed by anyone to meet the daily physical demands will have two components: the amount of energy needed to maintain the body's needs at rest, the basal energy expenditure, expressed as the base metabolic rate (BMR), and the needs generated by the daily activity levels, which include employment, sport, and any other activities."

BMR is defined as the amount of energy required for the body to function of all of the essential body systems, including heart rate, brain function, cardiovascular function, and the work of the thermoregulatory system. The BMR is the energy used by the body at rest.

The method used by MFP is called NEAT

NEAT = Non-exercise activity thermogenesis

NEAT is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT.

So folks please when answering a question from someone who is perhaps new or lacking in this knowledge do not confuse it further.

Use the correct terms and when someone tells you "You are doing it wrong, that is not TDEE" accept it because it's not.

*On a personal note I use the TDEE method. I eat the same number of calories everyday regarless of my activity.

I personally got my TDEE from my own actual data after measuring my portions, recording and logging accurately for 3 weeks.

There is no guesstimation from a website (not bashing those sites as the seem pretty close), Just mentioning this because often times people are directed to those site(s) and there are differences in the numbers each give.
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Replies

  • mimieonmimieon Member, Premium Posts: 182 Member Member, Premium Posts: 182 Member
    This just seems a discussion centered around semantics and actually nitpicking.

    Lets say I start with the "TDEE method" and I currently do not exercise at all, so I pick the TDEE matching my activity level (for instance pretty much sedentary or maybe lightly active).

    Then after a week, I add exercise 2 days a week to my lifestyle, and I decide to eat those calories back. According to you I should then rename my method to NEAT rather than TDEE?

    Doesn't seem so important. I get that people may get confused by suggesting this method, but I don't see how you saying that it is totally wrong in response to them would help matters.

    Edit to add: Maybe it would be fun to confuse people even more by calling this method TDEEEE (TDEE excluding exercise) >_>
  • Holly_Roman_EmpireHolly_Roman_Empire Member Posts: 4,418 Member Member Posts: 4,418 Member
    This just seems a discussion centered around semantics and actually nitpicking.

    Lets say I start with the "TDEE method" and I currently do not exercise at all, so I pick the TDEE matching my activity level (for instance pretty much sedentary or maybe lightly active).

    Then after a week, I add exercise 2 days a week to my lifestyle, and I decide to eat those calories back. According to you I should then rename my method to NEAT rather than TDEE?

    Doesn't seem so important. I get that people may get confused by suggesting this method, but I don't see how you saying that it is totally wrong in response to them would help matters.

    This is exactly what I do. I figured out my TDEE using sedentary settings, and set my MFP calorie limit between my BMR and TDEE. Then I eat any exercise calories I have. Not sure what method that is called, but it worked for me pretty well.
  • LunaInverseLunaInverse Member Posts: 111 Member Member Posts: 111 Member
    I don't care what way you cut it- if you are using the TDEE method you should NOT be eating your exercise calories back (although I am guilty of this sometimes). You should be eating the same exact amount of calories every day regardless of your activity level. Period.
  • SezxyStefSezxyStef Member Posts: 15,236 Member Member Posts: 15,236 Member
    This just seems a discussion centered around semantics and actually nitpicking.

    Lets say I start with the "TDEE method" and I currently do not exercise at all, so I pick the TDEE matching my activity level (for instance pretty much sedentary or maybe lightly active).

    Then after a week, I add exercise 2 days a week to my lifestyle, and I decide to eat those calories back. According to you I should then rename my method to NEAT rather than TDEE?

    Doesn't seem so important. I get that people may get confused by suggesting this method, but I don't see how you saying that it is totally wrong in response to them would help matters.

    Edit to add: Maybe it would be fun to confuse people even more by calling this method TDEEEE (TDEE excluding exercise) >_>

    This is exactly my point. You may eat your TDEE -% of calories but you are using the NEAT Method...not TDEE method.
  • SezxyStefSezxyStef Member Posts: 15,236 Member Member Posts: 15,236 Member
    This just seems a discussion centered around semantics and actually nitpicking.

    Lets say I start with the "TDEE method" and I currently do not exercise at all, so I pick the TDEE matching my activity level (for instance pretty much sedentary or maybe lightly active).

    Then after a week, I add exercise 2 days a week to my lifestyle, and I decide to eat those calories back. According to you I should then rename my method to NEAT rather than TDEE?

    Doesn't seem so important. I get that people may get confused by suggesting this method, but I don't see how you saying that it is totally wrong in response to them would help matters.

    This is exactly what I do. I figured out my TDEE using sedentary settings, and set my MFP calorie limit between my BMR and TDEE. Then I eat any exercise calories I have. Not sure what method that is called, but it worked for me pretty well.

    Any method where you are a calorie deficet will work....and just so you know you are using NEAT method.
  • Holly_Roman_EmpireHolly_Roman_Empire Member Posts: 4,418 Member Member Posts: 4,418 Member
    Funny, OP is dead on right, and then the 2 people come on directly after and argue. If you aren't using the TDEE method as she described, then you aren't and no amount of arguing will change it.

    I'm not arguing. I'm just saying there's more than one way to cut a pie, and some people's ways don't fit exactly into two models. As long as they explicitly say what they are doing, you are still able to help them.

    ETA: I guess I just don't see what the big deal is. People on MFP use incorrect terms all the time.
  • mimieonmimieon Member, Premium Posts: 182 Member Member, Premium Posts: 182 Member
    This just seems a discussion centered around semantics and actually nitpicking.

    Lets say I start with the "TDEE method" and I currently do not exercise at all, so I pick the TDEE matching my activity level (for instance pretty much sedentary or maybe lightly active).

    Then after a week, I add exercise 2 days a week to my lifestyle, and I decide to eat those calories back. According to you I should then rename my method to NEAT rather than TDEE?

    Doesn't seem so important. I get that people may get confused by suggesting this method, but I don't see how you saying that it is totally wrong in response to them would help matters.

    Edit to add: Maybe it would be fun to confuse people even more by calling this method TDEEEE (TDEE excluding exercise) >_>

    This is exactly my point. You may eat your TDEE -% of calories but you are using the NEAT Method...not TDEE method.

    I understand that that is your point, that is why I reiterated it. I just don't think it is very important, I guess.
  • uncharted01uncharted01 Member Posts: 105 Member Member Posts: 105 Member
    OP, thank you for explaining the differences! I'm relatively new here so this is very helpful info! :smile:
  • At3w3ightAt3w3ight Member Posts: 12 Member Posts: 12
    I have been reading in the forums a lot lately people saying this...

    "I use TDEE-20% but I calculated my TDEE at Sednetary and eat my exercise calories back"

    Well my typically response to that statement is "You are doing it wrong" which always ends up in a debate about semantics etc...

    Not to be nit picky but that is not using the TDEE method and when you this you have the potential to confuse people who are new and asking questions and trying to get educatd

    TDEE by Definition is Total Daily Energy Expenditure which is

    "The total daily energy expenditure (TEE) is an important calculation in the determination of the overall dietary and exercise practices of any person. The amount of energy needed by anyone to meet the daily physical demands will have two components: the amount of energy needed to maintain the body's needs at rest, the basal energy expenditure, expressed as the base metabolic rate (BMR), and the needs generated by the daily activity levels, which include employment, sport, and any other activities."

    BMR is defined as the amount of energy required for the body to function of all of the essential body systems, including heart rate, brain function, cardiovascular function, and the work of the thermoregulatory system. The BMR is the energy used by the body at rest.

    The method used by MFP is called NEAT

    NEAT = Non-exercise activity thermogenesis

    NEAT is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT.

    So folks please when answering a question from someone who is perhaps new or lacking in this knowledge do not confuse it further.

    Use the correct terms and when someone tells you "You are doing it wrong, that is not TDEE" accept it because it's not.

    *On a personal note I use the TDEE method. I eat the same number of calories everyday regarless of my activity.

    I personally got my TDEE from my own actual data after measuring my portions, recording and logging accurately for 3 weeks.

    There is no guesstimation from a website (not bashing those sites as the seem pretty close), Just mentioning this because often times people are directed to those site(s) and there are differences in the numbers each give.

    Thanks for breaking this down! I am new and immediately became discouraged with how much to eat, work out, etc because everyone was saying something different. I then went to different sites and got like 4 different numbers!!! So this cleared it up for me and I feel a little more comfortable in what I need to do. I don't plan on "eating back" my exercise calories, so does this mean for MFP I should only stick to what my daily allotment of calories are and when I work out ignore that it adds more calories?
  • YorriaRaineYorriaRaine Member, Premium Posts: 370 Member Member, Premium Posts: 370 Member
    I get the TDEE -%method. TDEE includes daily activities and exercises already in it, so you don't ever eat your exercise calories back because the method already considers them.

    However I see two types of NEAT.

    One type people take there TDEE -%, that's what they eat, but they make their TDEE under sedentary (usually), and if they exercise they eat that back.

    Then there is myfitnesspal default method, which takes your TDEE and gives you a deficit depending on your weight loss per week goal, rather than takes off a percentage. Then you eat back your exercise calories.

    Are both those method under the category of NEAT? Or are they called different things?
  • GothyFaeryGothyFaery Member Posts: 772 Member Member Posts: 772 Member
    Does it really matter what we call it? I could call it the Sparkling Unicorn Method as long as I'm at a deficit and losing weight. I understand that some people might be confused but don't you think it is more confusing to throw another term out there? Technically I guess I use the NEAT method, but when I needed to calculate my TDEE (at a sedentary level) I searched for a TDEE calculator. If you search for a NEAT calculator, all you get is a landscaping website and State Farm Insurance.

    As long at it is clearly explained, it shouldn't confuse people. What happens if you can't keep your activity level up for a while? You're method of eat the same amount of calories every day no matter what will fail. With the NEAT method (or as I will now refer to as the Sparkling Unicorn Method or SUM) you can be sure you're eating at a deficit everyday no matter what you do.

    ETA: I'm not saying either way is right or wrong. Some things work better for some people and the SUM works better for me so that's what I'm going to do.
  • Holly_Roman_EmpireHolly_Roman_Empire Member Posts: 4,418 Member Member Posts: 4,418 Member
    Funny, OP is dead on right, and then the 2 people come on directly after and argue. If you aren't using the TDEE method as she described, then you aren't and no amount of arguing will change it.

    I'm not arguing. I'm just saying there's more than one way to cut a pie, and some people's ways don't fit exactly into two models. As long as they explicitly say what they are doing, you are still able to help them.

    ETA: I guess I just don't see what the big deal is. People on MFP use incorrect terms all the time.

    Yes they do. But, wen yur tryin ta loose wait, it maks a diffreance. Specially, sence alls we hav is the writtin wurd.

    Above is extreme, but the point is that words matter. What you say matters. Don't just cop out and say, "that's just details". It is details, and details matter. It's confusing when you say, I use the TDEE method, but I still eat back my calories. That doesn't even compute in my brain. I literally have no idea what you are talking about.

    Okay, I can see how that would be misunderstood by someone trying to help. And I guess I'll go eat some humble pie after reading all the responses that say "Thanks for the explanation, OP!" :drinker::flowerforyou:
  • QuietBloomQuietBloom Member, Premium Posts: 5,414 Member Member, Premium Posts: 5,414 Member
    I have been reading in the forums a lot lately people saying this...

    "I use TDEE-20% but I calculated my TDEE at Sednetary and eat my exercise calories back"

    Well my typically response to that statement is "You are doing it wrong" which always ends up in a debate about semantics etc...

    Not to be nit picky but that is not using the TDEE method and when you this you have the potential to confuse people who are new and asking questions and trying to get educatd

    TDEE by Definition is Total Daily Energy Expenditure which is

    "The total daily energy expenditure (TEE) is an important calculation in the determination of the overall dietary and exercise practices of any person. The amount of energy needed by anyone to meet the daily physical demands will have two components: the amount of energy needed to maintain the body's needs at rest, the basal energy expenditure, expressed as the base metabolic rate (BMR), and the needs generated by the daily activity levels, which include employment, sport, and any other activities."

    BMR is defined as the amount of energy required for the body to function of all of the essential body systems, including heart rate, brain function, cardiovascular function, and the work of the thermoregulatory system. The BMR is the energy used by the body at rest.

    The method used by MFP is called NEAT

    NEAT = Non-exercise activity thermogenesis

    NEAT is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT.

    So folks please when answering a question from someone who is perhaps new or lacking in this knowledge do not confuse it further.

    Use the correct terms and when someone tells you "You are doing it wrong, that is not TDEE" accept it because it's not.

    *On a personal note I use the TDEE method. I eat the same number of calories everyday regarless of my activity.

    I personally got my TDEE from my own actual data after measuring my portions, recording and logging accurately for 3 weeks.

    There is no guesstimation from a website (not bashing those sites as the seem pretty close), Just mentioning this because often times people are directed to those site(s) and there are differences in the numbers each give.

    Thanks for breaking this down! I am new and immediately became discouraged with how much to eat, work out, etc because everyone was saying something different. I then went to different sites and got like 4 different numbers!!! So this cleared it up for me and I feel a little more comfortable in what I need to do. I don't plan on "eating back" my exercise calories, so does this mean for MFP I should only stick to what my daily allotment of calories are and when I work out ignore that it adds more calories?

    Don't log your exercise into MFP when using the TDEE method. Or if you do, just put in 1 calorie for the expenditure so it only adds on 1 calorie. Does that make sense? If you are using TDEE you have to 'fool' MFP because it is a NEAT calorie calculator.
  • mimieonmimieon Member, Premium Posts: 182 Member Member, Premium Posts: 182 Member
    Does it really matter what we call it? I could call it the Sparkling Unicorn Method as long as I'm at a deficit and losing weight. I understand that some people might be confused but don't you think it is more confusing to throw another term out there? Technically I guess I use the NEAT method, but when I needed to calculate my TDEE (at a sedentary level) I searched for a TDEE calculator. If you search for a NEAT calculator, all you get is a landscaping website and State Farm Insurance.

    As long at it is clearly explained, it shouldn't confuse people. What happens if you can't keep your activity level up for a while? You're method of eat the same amount of calories every day no matter what will fail. With the NEAT method (or as I will now refer to as the Sparkling Unicorn Method or SUM) you can be sure you're eating at a deficit everyday no matter what you do.

    ETA: I'm not saying either way is right or wrong. Some things work better for some people and the SUM works better for me so that's what I'm going to do.

    What I think is fun is that when you do the NEAT method and don't exercise, then you are also using the TDEE method.
  • Holly_Roman_EmpireHolly_Roman_Empire Member Posts: 4,418 Member Member Posts: 4,418 Member
    I get the TDEE -%method. TDEE includes daily activities and exercises already in it, so you don't ever eat your exercise calories back because the method already considers them.

    However I see two types of NEAT.

    One type people take there TDEE -%, that's what they eat, but they make their TDEE under sedentary (usually), and if they exercise they eat that back.

    Then there is myfitnesspal default method, which takes your TDEE and gives you a deficit depending on your weight loss per week goal, rather than takes off a percentage. Then you eat back your exercise calories.

    Are both those method under the category of NEAT? Or are they called different things?

    Apparently they both fall under the category of NEAT. I'm always careful to explain to people how I came up with my calorie goal though, since I didn't just go with the MFP default.
  • KeepGoingKyleneKeepGoingKylene Member Posts: 435 Member Member Posts: 435 Member
    :flowerforyou:
  • SezxyStefSezxyStef Member Posts: 15,236 Member Member Posts: 15,236 Member
    Does it really matter what we call it? I could call it the Sparkling Unicorn Method as long as I'm at a deficit and losing weight. I understand that some people might be confused but don't you think it is more confusing to throw another term out there? Technically I guess I use the NEAT method, but when I needed to calculate my TDEE (at a sedentary level) I searched for a TDEE calculator. If you search for a NEAT calculator, all you get is a landscaping website and State Farm Insurance.

    As long at it is clearly explained, it shouldn't confuse people. What happens if you can't keep your activity level up for a while? You're method of eat the same amount of calories every day no matter what will fail. With the NEAT method (or as I will now refer to as the Sparkling Unicorn Method or SUM) you can be sure you're eating at a deficit everyday no matter what you do.

    ETA: I'm not saying either way is right or wrong. Some things work better for some people and the SUM works better for me so that's what I'm going to do.

    What I think is fun is that when you do the NEAT method and don't exercise, then you are also using the TDEE method.

    No you are not...TDEE method states in it ....energy expended doing sports like activity ie exercise
  • SezxyStefSezxyStef Member Posts: 15,236 Member Member Posts: 15,236 Member
    OP, thank you for explaining the differences! I'm relatively new here so this is very helpful info! :smile:

    and
    Thanks for breaking this down! I am new and immediately became discouraged with how much to eat, work out, etc because everyone was saying something different. I then went to different sites and got like 4 different numbers!!! So this cleared it up for me and I feel a little more comfortable in what I need to do. I don't plan on "eating back" my exercise calories, so does this mean for MFP I should only stick to what my daily allotment of calories are and when I work out ignore that it adds more calories?

    And this is why the devil is in the details...for new people to understand exactly what each one means, why we choose the one we do and the science behind it.
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