Chest pains/tightmess running outside but not on treadmill?

lexbubbles

Does what it says on the tin really. On a treadmill I can knock out 3 miles in under 30 minutes with no discomfort in the chest area but whenever I run outside I get chest pains/tightness and have difficulty breathing (sometimes painful breathing) within half a mile? My outside mile time drops to around 11.5min/mile as a result (so not running faster and having problems as a result)

The area I run outside is as close to perfectly flat as you're going to get - so it's not like I'm running up huge hills and suffering the consequences either.

Anybody else have this problem? Anybody know why it's a thing?

Before you ask - yes, I've been to the doctor. No, there's nothing wrong with me (apart from arthritis but that's kind of irrelevant here)

patrickblo13

Cold weather can cause this

LatinaGordita

So no allergies or asthma? is it cold air? Anxiety attack? What the doctor say? Do you live in a higher altitude?

lexbubbles

So no allergies or asthma? is it cold air? Anxiety attack? What the doctor say? Do you live in a higher altitude?

1. Nope, allergy and asthma free since 1990 *touch wood*

2. It is coldish at the moment (currently 7c/45f so not that cold really. Bit on the nippy side, maybe), but it happens in all weathers. The last time I ran outside was June and it was just as bad then. I can't afford a gym membership any more and I don't have my own treadmill, so I ventured back outside for a run. I just finished the 30 day shred on Wednesday and thought WELL I'LL GO FOR A RUN OUTSIDE TODAY BEFORE I START SOMETHING ELSE AND MAYBE I'LL DO IT ONCE A WEEK LIKE THAT SEEMS A GOOD PLAN. Ha. Hahah. Ha.

3. It's unlike any anxiety attack I've ever had, so probably not? My chest gets really tight and breathing in is painful. Like, sharp stabbing pain painful. If I slow to a walk then it eventually goes away but as soon as start back up 'running' (really 10-11min/mile is more of a jog than an outright run) it comes back. The longer I go on the shorter my bursts of running/jogging/whatever are before I have to walk again.

4. Well I had stress tests and blood tests and stuff done. I came back healthy like my lungs and heart are totally fine, my blood pressure is normal and so is cholesterol etc so they don't know what's going on especially since I don't have the same problem with indoor running (or any other form of cardio). I was told I should 'probably stick to the treadmill'.

5. No, I live on the Isle of Dogs in London. I think I'm pretty close to sea level. The most I can find out from Google is that Greenwich (2 miles south and a bit higher up) is 115m above sea level so... probably a bit below that. Maybe like 100m above sea level. Definitely not a high altitude place.

Additional note: my fitness level isn't totally terrible. I mean it's not brilliant? But I did 30DS without feeling as if I was going to die so I should probably be able to manage running outside 2/3 of my inside distance without feeling this ****ty, right?

Additional note the second: I forgot to mention that my tongue feels really swollen and cold and saliva thickens? I drank 500ml of water before I left and had a 500ml bottle with me throughout (I can't run without water). Again, not something that happens inside. More 'slightly uncomfortable' than anything else.

Additional note the third: I breathe in through the nose, out through the mouth when running. I have tried in and out through the nose but it wasn't working out. I have real difficulty breathing out through my nose when I run *shrugs*

pinkiemarie252

Cold air can aggravate the lungs. Personally I can seem perfectly healthy then go out in the cold and start coughing really hard. I think yo might be suffering from winter

lexbubbles

Cold air can aggravate the lungs. Personally I can seem perfectly healthy then go out in the cold and start coughing really hard. I think yo might be suffering from winter

2. It is coldish at the moment (currently 7c/45f so not that cold really. Bit on the nippy side, maybe), but it happens in all weathers. The last time I ran outside was June and it was just as bad then. I can't afford a gym membership any more and I don't have my own treadmill, so I ventured back outside for a run. I just finished the 30 day shred on Wednesday and thought WELL I'LL GO FOR A RUN OUTSIDE TODAY BEFORE I START SOMETHING ELSE AND MAYBE I'LL DO IT ONCE A WEEK LIKE THAT SEEMS A GOOD PLAN. Ha. Hahah. Ha.

Paco4gsc

Even when the ground is more or less flat, running outside tends to be legitimately more strenuous than running on a treadmill. You usually end up using a few more muscles for stability outdoors due to making adjustments for uneven ground, turns, etc. that you wouldn't on a treadmill. Also, I've found that you can get away with less than ideal form on a treadmill, but for outdoor running, poor form can tire you out very quickly.

Those two things may increase your need for oxygen and could be the reason why you get short of breath?

lexbubbles

Even when the ground is more or less flat, running outside tends to be legitimately more strenuous than running on a treadmill. You usually end up using a few more muscles for stability outdoors due to making adjustments for uneven ground, turns, etc. that you wouldn't on a treadmill. Also, I've found that you can get away with less than ideal form on a treadmill, but for outdoor running, poor form can tire you out very quickly.

Those two things may increase your need for oxygen and could be the reason why you get short of breath?

That sounds like a reasonable theory. I've never had any kind of 'education' on the proper running form (never been part of a running group or anything like that) so I honestly can't tell you if my form is rubbish or not.

I did the race for life 10k in 2009 and 2011 and they were a lot harder than the 10k treadmill runs I was doing for training, so I totally get your point here.

How do I know what the proper form is? How do I work on it? I don't really know what I look like when I run (obviously). I look straight ahead, and I think I keep my back pretty straight.

In addition to arthritis, I do also have a leg length discrepancy (almost 1") and internal tibial torsion (twisted tibia that went untreated as a child and is now permanent) in both legs but more prominent in the right - both of which resulted over time in my hip becoming displaced/pelvic tilt - it's noticeably higher on one side so maybe that accounts for it? Trying to account for dodgy legs/joints in an outdoor setting leading to much higher exertion?

If so do you think it will eventually get better if I keep at it? (Not my legs, they never will. I mean the breathing)

ninerbuff

Even when the ground is more or less flat, running outside tends to be legitimately more strenuous than running on a treadmill. You usually end up using a few more muscles for stability outdoors due to making adjustments for uneven ground, turns, etc. that you wouldn't on a treadmill. Also, I've found that you can get away with less than ideal form on a treadmill, but for outdoor running, poor form can tire you out very quickly.

Those two things may increase your need for oxygen and could be the reason why you get short of breath?

This. Not to mention that running on a treadmill is "cushioned" so the impact of road running "shakes" you up more. Again this puts more impact on the overall body and energy expenditure is increased which may be causing you to increase your breathing and possibly causing the problem.

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Paco4gsc

How do I know what the proper form is? How do I work on it? I don't really know what I look like when I run (obviously). I look straight ahead, and I think I keep my back pretty straight.

In addition to arthritis, I do also have a leg length discrepancy (almost 1") and internal tibial torsion (twisted tibia that went untreated as a child and is now permanent) in both legs but more prominent in the right - both of which resulted over time in my hip becoming displaced/pelvic tilt - it's noticeably higher on one side so maybe that accounts for it? Trying to account for dodgy legs/joints in an outdoor setting leading to much higher exertion?

If so do you think it will eventually get better if I keep at it? (Not my legs, they never will. I mean the breathing)

I found this article on runner's world. http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/perfect-form

One of the most common mistakes I see is arm swing. You may be surprised at how much easier a run can feel if you cna just manage to keep your arms from swinging across your body.

I do think if you keep at it, the breathing should get better as your lungs, heart, and muscles strengthen.

SaintGiff

Something else to consider. Some people have different form when running on a treadmill as opposed to running outdoors. It is much much easier to maintain proper form, and therefore proper breathing on a treadmill. You take it for granted. Outdoors you may need to focus on your form a bit more. Also, are you sure the pain isn't more in the muscle? Again, this could be form related.

JanineHarrison

I think it is as simple as running on and off a treadmill are not the same. My gym has an indoor track on the same level as the machines. Running on the track is more "work" and I usually prefer it to the treadmill. I actually use the treadmill when I'm feeling a little lazy and want to burn some calories while I stream a show on my phone.

brad2021hk

There are a couple other things to consider running outside over a treadmill in addition to what's already been mentioned. One is wind resistance. It's not huge at 6mph, but it exists. Obviously, there is no wind resistance on a treadmill. Two is pacing. Pacing yourself takes effort. In the process, you often drift up and down in speed. Even though you're averaging an 11 minute mile on the road, you're probably doing a 9 minute mile for a bit and then a 12 minute mile and then a 10 and then back down to 11. The treadmill manages this for you.

In team oriented endurance sports, like pro cycling and probably cross-country running, a helper team member will often do pace making at the beginning of a stage or race. This does two things. First, they cut the wind resistance for the leader. Second, they take the hit of setting pace.

To simulate the effect of outdoor on a treadmill, the recommendation is to put in some slight incline. Like 1 to 2%. I bet if you run a 10 minute pace at 1% incline, you'll notice fatigue similar to running outdoors.

grneyedgoddess77

I'm not a runner but I wanted to just put my two cents in - just in case - since this is close to what my daughter goes through. She has 'cold urticaria' - which is basically an allergy to the cold. When she would run in gym class she would swell up, be unable to breath, and her tongue would swell up. If she had only shorts on or a tank top her skin would turn red and itchy. Even if it was a warm day, her own sweat would cool her skin down enough to react. Now her hands swell up if she holds a frapuccino. lol But it was slow coming and took some time for us to figure it out.

WannabeStressFree

Agreed on what others say, treadmill is just easier on the body. Outdoor running takes more of a toll.

Also, I'm wondering, maybe you're going all out and tiring quickly, this might be it. I say to try and pace yourself, esp with outdoor long distance running. Your body needs time to adjust.

heel_striker

Treadmill is easier than running outside, usually you have to add 1-2% incline on a treadmill to mimic outisde and that is assuming there is no wind. When you run outside you have to move your body through the air, you don't on a treadmill. Are you hydrating enough before running? I build up a lot of salvia (sorry if TMI) when running outside and don't on the treadmill. I think your body is just having to work harder outside than when on a treadmill and that is what's happening. Hopefully you have been fitted for proper running shoes as that is the most important thing. You may want to try a run/walk program just to see if that helps. Ie try running for 3 mins walking for 1 min and repeating that. It will give your body some time to rest. And then every week add an additional minute to the run portion. Also, do you eat close to when you run? You should wait an hour before you run, it could be a runner's stich. A lot of it is trial and error. Good luck!!

AlwaysInMotion

Have you tried wearing an HRM while running on the treadmill, as well as running outside? This might help you gauge your exertion levels in both environments for comparison purposes (try to do same pace, distance & elev to keep the variables down).

I'm betting (as others have suggested) that you're simply exerting yourself more outside. I know I do - even when switching between indoor track and outside pavement. You may be running with more effort to maintain the same pace. You may also be sucking in air more forcefully, causing chest pain (breathing/diaphragm pain, not chest/heart pain), as well as mouth issues related to more forceful exhaling.

Personally, I tend to clench up more when running outside to brace my body against the jarring effects of pavement pounding. (if you clench up, you're tightening your chest muscles and possibly your mouth/jaw.) I'm guessing your situation will improve as you condition yourself to more regular outside running.

Last thought - are exposed to any environmental pollutants - smog, factory exhaust, and such? Those can irritate your airways.

AlwaysInMotion

She has 'cold urticaria' - which is basically an allergy to the cold.

Hey, I get that, too! It happens to me every spring when I transition from spinning indoors to road cycling outside - and it's usually still rather chilly when I switch. I basically go thru a mild allergic reaction for several outings. Whole body redness, unbearable itching (especially extremities), and sometimes I look like I broke out in hives (it's just nasty.) It resolves itself rather shortly. I've learned it's actually rather common! I've considered taking Benedryl (OTC) to help me cope until I "break through" it.

wxbeauty123

I have had chest pains before and it is from my sternum being inflamed. It has an official medical term. It usually comes from being bigger chested and not wearing a supportive enough bra. Do you wear a different sports bra when you go outside instead of the treadmill. It could be the harder impact of the ground.

http://orthopedics.about.com/cs/sprainsstrains/a/costochondritis.htm

grneyedgoddess77

Hey, I get that, too! It happens to me every spring when I transition from spinning indoors to road cycling outside - and it's usually still rather chilly when I switch. I basically go thru a mild allergic reaction for several outings. Whole body redness, unbearable itching (especially extremities), and sometimes I look like I broke out in hives (it's just nasty.) It resolves itself rather shortly. I've learned it's actually rather common! I've considered taking Benedryl (OTC) to help me cope until I "break through" it.

Most the women in my family have it and never talk about it! I mentioned it to my Grandmother and she was like 'yeah, me and all my sisters and their kids have it too." Thanks Grandma. lol it skipped me - thank goodness - because I love the cold! My daughter unfortunately has a slightly severe case that is actually getting worse. One of my aunts has it so bad she wears gloves and a hat all winter round - in Arizona. BTW - Benedryl DOES help!

AlwaysInMotion

Most the women in my family have it and never talk about it! I mentioned it to my Grandmother and she was like 'yeah, me and all my sisters and their kids have it too." Thanks Grandma. lol it skipped me - thank goodness - because I love the cold! My daughter unfortunately has a slightly severe case that is actually getting worse. One of my aunts has it so bad she wears gloves and a hat all winter round - in Arizona. BTW - Benedryl DOES help!

Sorry to hear about your daughter & aunt. It stinks. Luckily it doesn't do any long term damage. Mostly just a misery thing. Thanks for the tip about the Benedryl.

lexbubbles

I'm not a runner but I wanted to just put my two cents in - just in case - since this is close to what my daughter goes through. She has 'cold urticaria' - which is basically an allergy to the cold. When she would run in gym class she would swell up, be unable to breath, and her tongue would swell up. If she had only shorts on or a tank top her skin would turn red and itchy. Even if it was a warm day, her own sweat would cool her skin down enough to react. Now her hands swell up if she holds a frapuccino. lol But it was slow coming and took some time for us to figure it out.

As I already said (twice) it happens in all weathers - not just the cold. The chest thing happens equally in heat! (Actually I'm worse in heat generally because I CANNOT DEAL with anything above 20c just as a person. I get heat exhaustion on the regular if it gets above that for very long. Cold weather is my friend. It's January and I still have the heating off and the windows open. Luv u cold weather don't leave me)

To the other points raised: I don't own a HRM and neither can I afford one. No, not even a 'it's only £25 one'. That's more than half what I have to live on a week and I don't have an overdraft or credit card or family. So nope. Definitely not buying one. I probably am exerting myself more outside and tbqh I really miss the treadmill. Like, so much.

My sports bra is the same outside and inside. it was a cheap one (see previous) but it does the job jumping around - like, no boob movement happening here when I jump about like a loon. The shoes are also cheap.

The person who said I'm going 'all out': my mile time is 1.5-2min/mile SLOWER than inside. Definitely not sprinting this one out. If I went much slower I'd be walking (I WALK at 15 min/mile and currently 'running' at a 12min/mile). I really don't feel that I can run any slower and not just be power-walking.

I live in London. While there aren't any factories in my immediate vicinity, it's not known for being the cleanest air in the world. But there's quite a lot of green space where I live so it's probably one of the 'cleaner' bits of the city in that regard.

EDIT: Person who said the sternum thing, I just checked the link. No, I do not have Tietze's Syndrome. My housemate does, and it's very very painful so I've heard, and also totally different to what I experience. She doesn't even exercise - hers just flares up if she breathes in wrong and she's had it for years. But it's not something I have - been given the all clear on everything by the doctor.

lexbubbles

There are a couple other things to consider running outside over a treadmill in addition to what's already been mentioned. One is wind resistance. It's not huge at 6mph, but it exists. Obviously, there is no wind resistance on a treadmill. Two is pacing. Pacing yourself takes effort. In the process, you often drift up and down in speed. Even though you're averaging an 11 minute mile on the road, you're probably doing a 9 minute mile for a bit and then a 12 minute mile and then a 10 and then back down to 11. The treadmill manages this for you.

In team oriented endurance sports, like pro cycling and probably cross-country running, a helper team member will often do pace making at the beginning of a stage or race. This does two things. First, they cut the wind resistance for the leader. Second, they take the hit of setting pace.

To simulate the effect of outdoor on a treadmill, the recommendation is to put in some slight incline. Like 1 to 2%. I bet if you run a 10 minute pace at 1% incline, you'll notice fatigue similar to running outdoors.

Yeah, I probably suck at outdoor pacing.

The treadmill thing though - on alt days I'd just run 5k but the others would be a program of ever-increasing incline (with alternating run-jog speed ie 11mph and 6mph - 6 being a 10 min mile) which started with 1% incline and the end of it was 10% incline at 11mph (15 min - increase 1% every 90s or so). Never got the chest pains and that level of fatigue. It was HARD but I never had difficulty breathing or painful breathing or chest tightness or any of it. I always felt brilliant after, in contrast to outdoor running which makes me feel absolutely awful

lexbubbles

Update: went out again today. I think I slowed my run pace slightly as I manage to complete the entire 2.37 miles (I walk a little at the start and end but didn't have to start walking early). Average pace was 11:13/mi rather than yesterday's 11:29/mi and my pace when I was running seemed to be around 10:36-10:38/mi. Gotta say I didn't really feel like I was moving at all at that pace but ya gotta do what ya gotta do, I guess.

Although it was better than yesterday (obviously) it still really hurt my chest from about the 1.5mile mark and I still feel awful afterwards. Ugh.

Thanks for your help though, everyone! Just looks like I need to seriously watch my pacing and just keep at it until it stops hurting.

grneyedgoddess77

As I already said (twice) it happens in all weathers - not just the cold. The chest thing happens equally in heat! (Actually I'm worse in heat generally because I CANNOT DEAL with anything above 20c just as a person. I get heat exhaustion on the regular if it gets above that for very long. Cold weather is my friend. It's January and I still have the heating off and the windows open. Luv u cold weather don't leave me)

As I mentioned because it happened in June - it doesn't just happen in the cold - sweat can cool the body enough to make it happen. I'm glad that the cold is your friend and you don't have this. Good luck!!