Strength training and HRM

briniepoo

Heya there
Today I did my workouts finally with an HRM. Doing my strength training, I got my heart up to 150b/m average for 30 mins. Thats alot, so convert into calories and wow about 250 calories. My cardio, I did an hour of different stuff, biking, running, jump rope. My average heart rate doing the biking was 165b/m, running 135b/m and 5 min jump rope 165b/m. Now obviously I would burn more if I did longer sessions of cardio, I did up to 15 mins.

Now the question, is it possible to burn so much doing strength training? I feel the burn, and do get out of breath. I heard that HRM, when you do strength training, are not reliable, also that cardio burns more than strength training.

I hope one of you lovely people can help out!

briniepoo

bump

kingscrown

I can burn any where from 350-500 in an hour of strength training. Keep building muscles. They'll burn more calories all day long.

Sarauk2sf

HRMs are not accurate for strength training. It is artificially elevated as your heart rate increases at a rate that is not commensurate with the energy expended.

Mslibb

I'm interested in this topic too... So if a HRM isn't accurate, what's a good method for estimating how many calories your burn during strength training? Thanks!

MeanderingMammal

Now the question, is it possible to burn so much doing strength training?

Not really, no. But that's not really the point of the resistance training, you're using that to maintain lean mass, improve strength and muscular endurance.

I heard that HRM, when you do strength training, are not reliable

It's not. The algorithms in the HRM are designed for steady state training and CV intervals. The pattern of resistance training really isn't appropriate for that method of measurement.

, also that cardio burns more than strength training.

CV training is certainly a lot more efficient at burning calories, but that's not really the point of CV training either. CV training works your CV system. As an example I ran for 80 minutes yesterday and burned 1000 cals, trying to do that whilst bored to tears throwing weight around would have taken a lot longer than 80 minutes. I'm about to go out for another 40 minute session this morning, anticipate about 500 cals there.

fwiw those figures that you quoted don't look right to me. I'd be expecting to see a higher HR while running than cycling, but if you're only doing 15 minutes of each then you're probably not reaching an optimum HR consistency to really judge.

briniepoo

@kingscrown
How do you know how much you burn? Do you estimate?

@Sarauk2sf
Thanks for the info, so how do you find out what you burn with weight training, is the whole thing an estimation?

＠MeanderingMam
Thanks for the help. When I run, I only do about 8 to 9km/h. I alternate 1 min at 6km/h, 2 min 8km/h, 1 min 9km/h, 2 min 8km/h, 1 min 7km/h, then 8.5 for 2 min, 1 min at 9.5, 2 at 8.5, 2 min at 8, then 1 min at 6km. So yeah, I dont go to fast.

When I cycle I do over 90rpm and I try to keep that rotation as I up the weights on the bike, I dont know the weights, all I know is that I start at level 8, then 9 then 8 then 9, 10, 9, 10, 9, 8, etc.

The reason I only do 15 mins each is that, I get bored to death doing one exercise or another for too long. But I do intend to do 1 long cardio session once a week. Because I only do a short time, I try to go as hard as possible.

ChinoHDT

I think you need to get a HRM with a calorie counter installed so possible one with a strap.

I for one know that Strenght training can have a major burn. I've done from 1hr to an 1hr and a half training and burnt from 500cals to nearly 1,000 cals doing strenght training alone.

Yes Cardio does burn tons however if your're looking to tone up then I wouldnt just focus primarily on cardio to get you that figure you want.

Instead add in both to your workout routine so start with strenght training and then cardio, be it 30-40 mins highincline walk or HiiTtraining for 10-15 mins

Unknown

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MeanderingMammal

The reason I only do 15 mins each is that, I get bored to death doing one exercise or another for too long. But I do intend to do 1 long cardio session once a week. Because I only do a short time, I try to go as hard as possible.

Whats your objective?

I can fully understand why machines dont inspire you, but subject to where you are in Japan you should have some opportunities for outdoor training.

From my perspective I started training for weight loss and in a short time recognised that I was more interested in my training performance as priority. Much running, and some resistance training, later I have a significantly reduced body fat percentage, clothes fit me better and my resting heart rate is reduced.

My weight hasnt reduced in a month or so but other indicators are demonstrating a measure of success.

SezxyStef

There is no reasonable way to know what your burn is. This is why many people that lift use the TDEE method, rather than the NEAT method, which is the MFP way, where you eat back calories burned.

Strength training probably burn around 150 to 200.

This...I don't eat mine back...I switched to TDEE the day I started lifting as I know there is no way to really calculate the calories burned lifting...

HRM are only good for Steady state cardio as long as they are setup correctly and they have a chest strap.

briniepoo

The reason I only do 15 mins each is that, I get bored to death doing one exercise or another for too long. But I do intend to do 1 long cardio session once a week. Because I only do a short time, I try to go as hard as possible.

Whats your objective?

I can fully understand why machines dont inspire you, but subject to where you are in Japan you should have some opportunities for outdoor training.

From my perspective I started training for weight loss and in a short time recognised that I was more interested in my training performance as priority. Much running, and some resistance training, later I have a significantly reduced body fat percentage, clothes fit me better and my resting heart rate is reduced.

My weight hasnt reduced in a month or so but other indicators ae demonstrating a measure of success.

Yip, when I can I do hike in the mountains for about 2 hours (hour there and back). My objective is to lose another 6kgs to get to 60kg, and I also wanna reduce fat. I am also trying to get my knee strength back since my second ACL operation.

MeanderingMammal

My objective is to lose another 6kgs to get to 60kg, and I also wanna reduce fat. I am also trying to get my knee strength back since my second ACL operation.

In that case I wouldn't worry too much about calorie expenditure in resistance training, not accounting for it should just lead to a slightly faster weight loss, unless you're intake is already a bit low for healthy reduction in which case you might need to factor it into the approximations.

If you're burning a lot in CV training then it just gives you more flexibility around your diet. From a personal perspective if I don't burn and just eat to my goal then I feel unsatisfied. By burning extra I can eat more and feel more satisfied win/ win

mayerrocks

HRMs are not accurate for strength training. It is artificially elevated as your heart rate increases at a rate that is not commensurate with the energy expended.

Can you please explain this in little bit more detail?

3dogsrunning

HRMs are not accurate for strength training. It is artificially elevated as your heart rate increases at a rate that is not commensurate with the energy expended.

Can you please explain this in little bit more detail?

Here is a good blog that breaks it down a bit
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Azdak/view/the-real-facts-about-hrms-and-calories-what-you-need-to-know-before-purchasing-an-hrm-or-using-one-21472

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1044313-this-is-why-hrms-have-limited-use-for-tracking-calories

Unknown

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kingscrown

My HRM tells me calories burned. It takes into account my HR and my weight and makes an educated guess I'm sure, but it's working for me. *see weight loss ticker.

growtinymuscles

Really? HRMs are not accurate in relation to calories burned? Isn't it true that while you are strength training your heart rate is increased? Isn't it also true that raising your heart rate is what burns calories (beyond what your body requires to function)?

When I strength train, my body is in a steady state of cardio. On my current routine, I rest for 30 seconds in between sets and only take the amount of time going from one exercise to another...maybe a couple of minutes. My workout is complete in less than an hour and I burn around 700-800 calories per session. When I am just doing cardio, and I don't do steady state. I do HIIT cardio and they never last more than 40 minutes.

ninerbuff

Really? HRMs are not accurate in relation to calories burned? Isn't it true that while you are strength training your heart rate is increased? Isn't it also true that raising your heart rate is what burns calories (beyond what your body requires to function)?

When I strength train, my body is in a steady state of cardio. On my current routine, I rest for 30 seconds in between sets and only take the amount of time going from one exercise to another...maybe a couple of minutes. My workout is complete in less than an hour and I burn around 700-800 calories per session. When I am just doing cardio, and I don't do steady state. I do HIIT cardio and they never last more than 40 minutes.

If just a raised heart rate were all that were necessary to burn calories, then one could just watch scary movies and suspense dramas and lose weight. And we know that's not happening.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

growtinymuscles

Really? HRMs are not accurate in relation to calories burned? Isn't it true that while you are strength training your heart rate is increased? Isn't it also true that raising your heart rate is what burns calories (beyond what your body requires to function)?

When I strength train, my body is in a steady state of cardio. On my current routine, I rest for 30 seconds in between sets and only take the amount of time going from one exercise to another...maybe a couple of minutes. My workout is complete in less than an hour and I burn around 700-800 calories per session. When I am just doing cardio, and I don't do steady state. I do HIIT cardio and they never last more than 40 minutes.

If just a raised heart rate were all that were necessary to burn calories, then one could just watch scary movies and suspense dramas and lose weight. And we know that's not happening.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Well thank you for that bit of information and to think that all this time I thought that I could just walk around and have people scare me or I could just hold my breath...lol

So you are telling me that a HRM does not reflect calories burned while strength training? Please explain, because I am just not able to get my mind around that...

3dogsrunning

Really? HRMs are not accurate in relation to calories burned? Isn't it true that while you are strength training your heart rate is increased? Isn't it also true that raising your heart rate is what burns calories (beyond what your body requires to function)?

When I strength train, my body is in a steady state of cardio. On my current routine, I rest for 30 seconds in between sets and only take the amount of time going from one exercise to another...maybe a couple of minutes. My workout is complete in less than an hour and I burn around 700-800 calories per session. When I am just doing cardio, and I don't do steady state. I do HIIT cardio and they never last more than 40 minutes.

If just a raised heart rate were all that were necessary to burn calories, then one could just watch scary movies and suspense dramas and lose weight. And we know that's not happening.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Well thank you for that bit of information and to think that all this time I thought that I could just walk around and have people scare me or I could just hold my breath...lol

So you are telling me that a HRM does not reflect calories burned while strength training? Please explain, because I am just not able to get my mind around that...

I linked two excellent explainations above.

HR is not directly related to calories burned. HRM calorie estimation formulas are based on a known relationship between VO2 and HR during moderate intensity steady state cardio. Strength training, unlesss very high intensity circuit training, does not fall under this.
The second link I posted actually shows the difference in VO2 max during different activites.

wtw0n

A heart rate monitor (HRM) is capable of estimating calorie burn pretty accurately—but only for aerobic (cardio) exercise, not for strength training. Here's why:

A HRM won't give you an accurate idea of how many calories you burn during strength training, because the relationship between heart rate and calorie expenditure is not the same during strength training as during cardio exercise, which is what the HRM's estimate is based on. Unless your weight training is very vigorous circuit training, the heart rate monitor will be overestimating your calorie burn by a fair amount.

The problem is a technical one. Calorie burning isn't determined by heart rate, it's determined by the number of muscle cells that are activated to perform a given activity. It's the working cells that actually use the energy (calories) and consume oxygen. When working muscle cells need more energy and oxygen, your heart rate goes up to deliver these things to the cells via the blood stream.

Any muscle that performs a high intensity or maximum effort (strength training) will trigger an increase in heart rate and blood flow. But if only a single muscle group is on the receiving end to utilize that extra oxygen (doing a strength exercise that isolates your biceps, for example), only a relatively small amount of oxygen (and calories) will actually be consumed.

So while a series of strength training exercises may elevate your heart rate like aerobic exercise does, you're not actually using as much oxygen and burning as many calories as you would be if you were steadily using several large muscles all at once, as when walking, running, swimming, or doing aerobics for example.

The heart rate monitor doesn’t know whether your increase in heart rate is due to several large muscle groups working (cardio), an isolated muscle group lifting a weight (strength training), or even if adrenaline or excitement is increasing your heart rate. It just knows your heart rate, and the formulas it uses to estimate calories are based on studies of aerobic exercise, not other activities. So, it's going to overestimate your calorie expenditure when the rise in heart rate is stimulated by using isolated muscles at maximum intensity, which is what occurs during strength training.

Written by Dean Anderson, Certified Personal Trainer
source: http://www.sparkpeople.com/community/ask_the_experts.asp?q=75

geebusuk

Heart rate is a good indication of calories burnt during cardio because along with your weight and other sensors like GPS, pedometers and the like it can give the system a very reasonable idea of the energy your body is using to move.

You burn very few calories doing actual lifting. Quite possible more calories are burnt from the working harder than the work it's self!

Where strength training can burn a lot of calories is the 'after burn' as they call it.
This is actually the extra energy your body expends trying to repair the damage caused by tearing up the muscles lifting heavy stuff.

If you didn't eat anything for the next 48 hours and hooked yourself up to a respiratory analyser once an hour for that period, you might get an idea .

Without that, take a stab in the dark; if you're losing too fast, eat more calories; not fast enough, eat less.

As an idea, this is an estimate of the the calories needed for doing 3x5 squats with 137.5kg on your back (303lb)
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=3+x+5+X+137.5kg+*+1m+*+9.81+m/s/s+in+kilocalories
That's 5 calories for the entire squat section of 'starting strength', which is the most arduous.
Now, sure, your body isn't 100% efficient, so it'll use a good bit more than that. But even you're talking 10% efficient, we're still talking maybe 100 calories for the entire workout. And a lot less for less weight.
And that's why it's not worth worrying about 'accurate measuring' even if you could!

Mr_Knight

There are dozens, if not hundreds of threads on MFP explaining why HRMs are not good tools for guesstimating calorie burns for this type of exercise.

Your numbers are vastly - vastly! - over-estimated.

Sarauk2sf

@Sarauk2sf
Thanks for the info, so how do you find out what you burn with weight training, is the whole thing an estimation?

Everything really is an estimation - just some are more accurate than others. For weight training, I usually suggest going with MFPs estimates - they are usually pretty conservative. If your results are trending other than expected, tweak accordingly.

ninerbuff

Really? HRMs are not accurate in relation to calories burned? Isn't it true that while you are strength training your heart rate is increased? Isn't it also true that raising your heart rate is what burns calories (beyond what your body requires to function)?

When I strength train, my body is in a steady state of cardio. On my current routine, I rest for 30 seconds in between sets and only take the amount of time going from one exercise to another...maybe a couple of minutes. My workout is complete in less than an hour and I burn around 700-800 calories per session. When I am just doing cardio, and I don't do steady state. I do HIIT cardio and they never last more than 40 minutes.

If just a raised heart rate were all that were necessary to burn calories, then one could just watch scary movies and suspense dramas and lose weight. And we know that's not happening.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Well thank you for that bit of information and to think that all this time I thought that I could just walk around and have people scare me or I could just hold my breath...lol

So you are telling me that a HRM does not reflect calories burned while strength training? Please explain, because I am just not able to get my mind around that...

It reflects heart rate and ESTIMATES calorie burn. But when applying strength training to the equation, because of how energy is used to employ muscle contraction along with all the other chemical reactions going on (Krebs cycle, etc.), it's not going to give an accurate reading. Comparing energy used doing anaerboic exercise vs aerobic exercise is why they are separated.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

Well thank you for that bit of information and to think that all this time I thought that I could just walk around and have people scare me or I could just hold my breath...lol

So you are telling me that a HRM does not reflect calories burned while strength training? Please explain, because I am just not able to get my mind around that...

I linked two excellent explainations above.

HR is not directly related to calories burned. HRM calorie estimation formulas are based on a known relationship between VO2 and HR during moderate intensity steady state cardio. Strength training, unlesss very high intensity circuit training, does not fall under this.
The second link I posted actually shows the difference in VO2 max during different activites.

Well explained.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

KristinaB83

I don't know, squats sure feel a hell of a lot like cardio to me.

Hornsby

Subscribing...

HWeatherholt

I am 36, 5' 9", and weigh 203.2. I am doing new rules of lifting for women and according to the calculations for it, I burn 291 calories for 20 minutes of lifting. So, although everyone says HRM aren't good for strength training, your number doesn't seem unreasonable.

QuietBloom

HRM are made to measure steady state cardio, nothing else. So don't use it for that and assume you will get a good calorie burn estimation from it.