Weight Lifting in General - More to Come

cparter

I posted this before in response to another enquiry but to share with those who did not catch it, here it is again.

These are ideas I learned going through Coopers Institute Fitness Training Course. Many power lifters will swear against it but remember they are in it for the competition. You are in it not to get injured while getting fit. Wisdom would say, stay in your zone. There are many ideas on how you can do things. I see no problem with doing it the way you are doing but here are two ways I trained people to do it.

For those building mass:

Monday and Thursday: Chest, Triceps, traps and Shoulders - abs
Tuesday and Friday: Upper and lower back, biceps, and abs
Wednesday and Saturday: Quads, hamstrings, inner/outer abductors, calves, and abs

For those trying to lose weight and gain tone:

Monday/Wednesday/Friday:

(In this order) - and after moderate 30 minutes of cardio. All sets 1 set 15 reps except where noted and a 3 second count between motions
Chest press 1 set of 15 (3 second count up and down)
Incline Chest press
Decline Chest press
Shoulder press
Cable row (keep angle of pulley toward your navel with back straight and do not use momentum)
leg extensions
hamstring curls
inner abductors
outer abductors
calf press
lower back presses
bicep curls (machine) 2 sets
triceps extension (machine) 2 sets

This is a gage but you also take into context the proper technique. Many people go beyond their normal plain of motion which causes problems with their joints so you should at least take a few lessons from a trained and certified personal trainer. Preferably one who does on teaching breaking the plane. Things like you should feel the weight so let the bar touch your chest or you are not working those squats right if your top of your quads are not parallel to the deck. For those who teach that to each his own but for the generalized person who wants to be fit and build a core this is dangerous and sets them up for injuries that will eventually discourage them from going to anyone's gym again. Enough of the macho junk. Lift wise and train for the long run. If you are training for a lifting competition all this goes out of the window because you should be working a trainer and spotter to ensure you are safe as well as stretching constantly but if you want to be around and not deal with the issues of improper training refer to this. Enough said.

IsMollyReallyHungry

Thanks!

ktbug1186

Thanks so much!

Aid_B

Thanks for posting, exactly what i was looking for

kayleigh333

Thanks for this!

cparter

Thanks for posting, exactly what i was looking for

You are welcome. There are so many people posting about going to the extreme but for someone who just wants to get in shape and be safe it is no time for machoism that will lead to injury when you can safely enjoy the experience and increase your muscular fitness.

jrich1

Trying to get in for toning and weight loss, but I dont know what half of those things you mentioned are and how much weight should I use? ( I injured my back shoulders a couple months ago doing a lift class with the wrong weight)..

Any weight lifting for dummies you can provide?

Galathea

bump

I was waiting for you to post this. Helps me a lot. Thaaaaaaaaaanks. :flowerforyou:

Shawna_831

Bump for sure!

Azdak

Trying to get in for toning and weight loss, but I dont know what half of those things you mentioned are and how much weight should I use? ( I injured my back shoulders a couple months ago doing a lift class with the wrong weight)..

Any weight lifting for dummies you can provide?

The number of reps is your guide to intensity (i.e. how heavy the weights should be). The purpose of each set is to work the muscles until they can no longer perform the lift with perfect form. If the intensity guideline is "15 reps" then you should set the weight so that you can complete 15 reps with perfect form. If you struggle to do 10 reps, the weight is too heavy; if you can do 17 or more reps with perfect/good form, the weight is too light.

When in doubt, use lighter weights--you can always increase them the next workout.

Now, if you are just starting out, you have more "leeway". That's because the muscles will start to adapt and grow stronger with as little as 40% of your maximum.

I tell my clients who are just starting, that their initial goal is to feel the target muscles working and some fatigue by the time they reach 12-15 reps. In the beginning, you do NOT have to work to failure to improve. Take 2-8 workouts (really, however many you need) to work on form and get over any initial stiffness/soreness. When you start to feel more coordinated, then start to focus the intensity and your efforts on getting to the weight that results in "failure" within the prescribed number of reps.

Then, once you can complete the target number of reps with perfect form, that is the signal to increase the weight.

Remember: the goal is of each set is to reach "failure" within the prescribed number of repetitions. Just completing the reps without reaching "failure", or doing more than the prescribed number of reps will not allow you to make continuous progress. You need to keep increasing the weight.

ChellieIrish

Bumping for later thanks :flowerforyou:

PamelaHoneyHuggy

Ok call me the smart one... LOL What machines do I need? I have a total gym. A bike,ellipitcal,& treadmill. I also have 5lb weights. No clue how to use them.... Help! What do I do? Where do I start ? I really don't know what to do on the total gym. Thanks.

cparter

Trying to get in for toning and weight loss, but I dont know what half of those things you mentioned are and how much weight should I use? ( I injured my back shoulders a couple months ago doing a lift class with the wrong weight)..

Any weight lifting for dummies you can provide?

Azdak took the words right out of my mouth. Follow the guidelines he stated. He and I are definitely in sync on this.

Azdak

Trying to get in for toning and weight loss, but I dont know what half of those things you mentioned are and how much weight should I use? ( I injured my back shoulders a couple months ago doing a lift class with the wrong weight)..

Any weight lifting for dummies you can provide?

Azdak took the words right out of my mouth. Follow the guidelines he stated. He and I are definitely in sync on this.

Sorry--didn't mean to bigfoot your topic.....:embarassed:

cparter

Ok call me the smart one... LOL What machines do I need? I have a total gym. A bike,ellipitcal,& treadmill. I also have 5lb weights. No clue how to use them.... Help! What do I do? Where do I start ? I really don't know what to do on the total gym. Thanks.

Going to a meeting so will reply to you privately. This post was written for people who join local fitness centers. I will have to align something more specific for you for an at home gym to get similar results but not as appealing as the gym experience but definitely helpful. Unless some of the rest of you will prefer I made another long post on here about honeybuggy's question if you too have an at home gym. Let me know and I will get back at this later to give a more detailed approach on what can be done in this situation.

cparter

Trying to get in for toning and weight loss, but I dont know what half of those things you mentioned are and how much weight should I use? ( I injured my back shoulders a couple months ago doing a lift class with the wrong weight)..

Any weight lifting for dummies you can provide?

Azdak took the words right out of my mouth. Follow the guidelines he stated. He and I are definitely in sync on this.

Sorry--didn't mean to bigfoot your topic.....:embarassed:

No No No.. I respect your inputs above many I have seen. You and I are a great team. Feel free to add on anytime. :happy:

IsMollyReallyHungry

Bump.

ShaneT99

For those trying to lose weight and gain tone:

Monday/Wednesday/Friday:

(In this order) - and after moderate 30 minutes of cardio. All sets 1 set 15 reps except where noted and a 3 second count between motions
Chest press 1 set of 15 (3 second count up and down)
Incline Chest press
Decline Chest press
Shoulder press
Cable row (keep angle of pulley toward your navel with back straight and do not use momentum)
leg extensions
hamstring curls
inner abductors
outer abductors
calf press
lower back presses
bicep curls (machine) 2 sets
triceps extension (machine) 2 sets

I don't want to sound like a critic or a know-it-all, but this is just a horribly inefficient and likely ineffective workout and I'd hate to see a bunch of people here start doing it and not ever get any results. I mean no offense to the OP or anyone else, but the Cooper Institute really needs to do some research if this is the kind of stuff they're teaching. It's really a disservice to the people who might follow a routine like this simply because they haven't been taught better. I say this in the nicest way I know how on a message board, but it's really just not good. Better than nothing, of course, but not good.

Consider this:

1) You don't really need to hit your chest in three different directions in one workout. You certainly CAN do that, but it isn't necessary.

2) You put a whole lot of emphasis on the chest but almost none on the back (only one back exercise). This is a common problem as people tend to want to work on the mirror muscles, but the back shouldn't be overlooked. It contains some of the largest and most powerful muscles in the human body (second only to the glutes/hamstrings/quads). Don't neglect them.

3) The leg portion of your workout is 100% isolation movements. That's an extremely ineffective way to train. A person would be far better served by throwing all those exercises out the window and replacing them with various forms of squats and lunges. Our bodies don't work in isolation, so it makes no sense to train them that way.

4) Lower Back Presses - I don't know for sure what this is, but if it's what I think it is then it's a shoulder injury waiting to happen.

5) Curls and Tricep Extensions - Waste of time for most people. These muscles get plenty of work with the various push and pull compound exercises that you can do. Does it hurt to do them? No. Does it help? Not really, but it does take up precious time that you could be using to do exercises that WILL make a difference for you.

I like that you promote a full body workout three days a week for fat loss, but in my opinion the workout you listed there is terribly inefficient. You could get a better workout with just 6 compound exercises. I would suggest something like the following in lieu of the workout above for a beginner's fat loss workout:

Superset 1:
Squats
Cable Seated Row

Superset 2:
Side or Dynamic Lunges
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press

Superset 3:
Upright Row / Overhead Press Combo
Swiss Ball Crunches

Do 2-3 sets of 15 wth 60 seconds rest between sets, alternating exercises within the superset until you've completed all the sets. Then move on to the next superset. Follow it up with 30 minutes or so of your favorite cardio. Use enough weight for each exercise that the last 2-3 reps are very challenging but not so much weight that you cannot finish the set. Try to increase the weight a little bit each time you do the workout. You'll get a better workout this way with less than half the exercises and probably twice the results.

Again, I mean no offense to the OP or anyone else. I just hate to see people doing workouts like this when they could do so much more with less.

Aid_B

Trying to get in for toning and weight loss, but I dont know what half of those things you mentioned are and how much weight should I use? ( I injured my back shoulders a couple months ago doing a lift class with the wrong weight)..

Any weight lifting for dummies you can provide?

I had to google a couple of these, so here are a few links with small video clips

Incline Chest press

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralClavicular/DBInclineBenchPress.html

Decline Chest press

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/DBDeclineBenchPress.html

Shoulder press

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBShoulderPress.html

Cable row

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/CBSeatedRow.html

leg extensions

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/LVLegExtension.html

hamstring curls

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Hamstrings/LVSeatedLegCurl.html

inner abductors

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/HipAbductor/LVSeatedHipAbduction.html

calf press

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Gastrocnemius/LVSeatedCalfPress.html

lower back presses

bicep curls (machine)

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Biceps/CBCurl.html

triceps extension (machine)

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/LVTriExtGripless.html

lilRicki

what can i do instead of the cable row? i would love to do it but don't have access to that machine until i switch gyms lol

cparter

what can i do instead of the cable row? i would love to do it but don't have access to that machine until i switch gyms lol

You can do dumb bell or straight bar rows. Stand with your knees slightly bent, your chin up while bending your upper torso about 45 degrees. Using two dumb bells or a straight bar bring the weight just below your breast with your elbows forming a 90 degree angle on both sides and back down to a soft elbow.

cparter

Two topics:

First the video clips. They are fine for a knowledge of motion but be careful on bringing the weight that low on bench press or incline exercises. Same issue with the shoulder press. Your arms should be parallel to the deck so as not to go beyond your normal plane of motion. When doing the cable row you should not allow momentum to control your workout. Sit with your back in the starting position and chest out and draw the weight into your navel and back out to soft elbow without bending into the weight as in the video.

For the gentlemen who was so macho to determine this workout out of his standards; Mr. Azdak and myself are in agreement. We have the background in fitness that proves this works. If you want to go macho and hurt yourself then so be it but this is for those who do not want to be all macho, protect their bodies while gaining muscular fitness without being all bulky or worse; injured.

If you want to disagree fine but if you want to sell some bad insurance create your own post. Are you basing your comments on research, personal experience or by the fact you have been certified as well? If you have never been certified then sit back and learn you might be surprised. You are hacking at something that you have never tried. I got pictures to show it worked for me. Look at my post about losing 50 lbs in 4.5 months. Or look at the pictures on my profile. I did not get those guns, legs, lats or pecs wimping out. I got them doing just what I am preaching about.

Where are your pics that prove you have walked that mile? Show us that physique with the developed guns, legs and pecs. Mine are on here. I am setting the example. So, before I say something I provide credentials behind my statements. Have a nice day.

cparter

By the way, the exercise for toning is taking directly from the STRIVE program. This is not to develop a professional weight lifter but to develop your muscularity while focusing on your cardio fitness.

Azdak

For those trying to lose weight and gain tone:

Monday/Wednesday/Friday:

(In this order) - and after moderate 30 minutes of cardio. All sets 1 set 15 reps except where noted and a 3 second count between motions
Chest press 1 set of 15 (3 second count up and down)
Incline Chest press
Decline Chest press
Shoulder press
Cable row (keep angle of pulley toward your navel with back straight and do not use momentum)
leg extensions
hamstring curls
inner abductors
outer abductors
calf press
lower back presses
bicep curls (machine) 2 sets
triceps extension (machine) 2 sets

I don't want to sound like a critic or a know-it-all, but this is just a horribly inefficient and likely ineffective workout and I'd hate to see a bunch of people here start doing it and not ever get any results. I mean no offense to the OP or anyone else, but the Cooper Institute really needs to do some research if this is the kind of stuff they're teaching. It's really a disservice to the people who might follow a routine like this simply because they haven't been taught better. I say this in the nicest way I know how on a message board, but it's really just not good. Better than nothing, of course, but not good.

Consider this:

1) You don't really need to hit your chest in three different directions in one workout. You certainly CAN do that, but it isn't necessary.

2) You put a whole lot of emphasis on the chest but almost none on the back (only one back exercise). This is a common problem as people tend to want to work on the mirror muscles, but the back shouldn't be overlooked. It contains some of the largest and most powerful muscles in the human body (second only to the glutes/hamstrings/quads). Don't neglect them.

3) The leg portion of your workout is 100% isolation movements. That's an extremely ineffective way to train. A person would be far better served by throwing all those exercises out the window and replacing them with various forms of squats and lunges. Our bodies don't work in isolation, so it makes no sense to train them that way.

4) Lower Back Presses - I don't know for sure what this is, but if it's what I think it is then it's a shoulder injury waiting to happen.

5) Curls and Tricep Extensions - Waste of time for most people. These muscles get plenty of work with the various push and pull compound exercises that you can do. Does it hurt to do them? No. Does it help? Not really, but it does take up precious time that you could be using to do exercises that WILL make a difference for you.

I like that you promote a full body workout three days a week for fat loss, but in my opinion the workout you listed there is terribly inefficient. You could get a better workout with just 6 compound exercises. I would suggest something like the following in lieu of the workout above for a beginner's fat loss workout:

Superset 1:
Squats
Cable Seated Row

Superset 2:
Side or Dynamic Lunges
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press

Superset 3:
Upright Row / Overhead Press Combo
Swiss Ball Crunches

Do 2-3 sets of 15 wth 60 seconds rest between sets, alternating exercises within the superset until you've completed all the sets. Then move on to the next superset. Follow it up with 30 minutes or so of your favorite cardio. Use enough weight for each exercise that the last 2-3 reps are very challenging but not so much weight that you cannot finish the set. Try to increase the weight a little bit each time you do the workout. You'll get a better workout this way with less than half the exercises and probably twice the results.

Again, I mean no offense to the OP or anyone else. I just hate to see people doing workouts like this when they could do so much more with less.

3 sets of Swiss ball crunches? 3 sets of 15 reps? And you want to point at someone else's routine and call it "inefficient" and "ineffective"?

Pot: meet kettle.

ShaneT99

3 sets of Swiss ball crunches? 3 sets of 15 reps? And you want to point at someone else's routine and call it "inefficient" and "ineffective"?

Pot: meet kettle.

That was ONE example of ONE workout designed for a beginner. I would alternate that particular workout with another similar one 2-3 times a week for 4 weeks and then take a week off before moving on to something else. What's ineffective about a beginner doing 2-3 sets of 15? Are 15 rep sets not what was prescribed in the original post that you seemingly agreed with? Before criticizing the workout, I'd suggest giving it a shot. You'll be surprised.

cparter

3 sets of Swiss ball crunches? 3 sets of 15 reps? And you want to point at someone else's routine and call it "inefficient" and "ineffective"?

Pot: meet kettle.

That was ONE example of ONE workout designed for a beginner. I would alternate that particular workout with another similar one 2-3 times a week for 4 weeks and then take a week off before moving on to something else. What's ineffective about a beginner doing 2-3 sets of 15? Are 15 rep sets not what was prescribed in the original post that you seemingly agreed with? Before criticizing the workout, I'd suggest giving it a shot. You'll be surprised.

Once again, your credentials are?

ShaneT99

For the gentlemen who was so macho to determine this workout out of his standards; Mr. Azdak and myself are in agreement. We have the background in fitness that proves this works.

First of all, my apologies for stepping on toes and offending you. My intent was to give people a better option, but in reading my post again I realize that the way I came across left a lot to be desired when it comes to common courtesy. I apologize for that.

If you want to go macho and hurt yourself then so be it but this is for those who do not want to be all macho, protect their bodies while gaining muscular fitness without being all bulky or worse; injured.

What's macho about saying you don't have to do three different chest exercises? What's macho about saying your chest and back should get equal emphasis? What's macho about saying that compound exercises are better for your legs than isolation exercises? What's macho about suggesting someone not try an exercise that will likely injure them (lower back presses)? What's macho about saying that curls and tricep extensions aren't required for beginners?

I see why you're upset with me, but I don't see your line of reasoning for saying that the workout I suggested was macho or going to hurt someone. There was nothing macho or dangerous about it. It's simple and effective. They're all common exercises that people do every day.

And bulky? If you really are certified then you know that bulk doesn't come from 15 rep sets. You also know that most women can't get bulky without the use of drugs. They simply don't have the testosterone for it.

If you want to disagree fine but if you want to sell some bad insurance create your own post. Are you basing your comments on research, personal experience or by the fact you have been certified as well? If you have never been certified then sit back and learn you might be surprised. You are hacking at something that you have never tried. I got pictures to show it worked for me. Look at my post about losing 50 lbs in 4.5 months. Or look at the pictures on my profile. I did not get those guns, legs, lats or pecs wimping out. I got them doing just what I am preaching about.

Where are your pics that prove you have walked that mile? Show us that physique with the developed guns, legs and pecs. Mine are on here. I am setting the example. So, before I say something I provide credentials behind my statements. Have a nice day.

1) I should have started my own post and not dogged on yours. You're certainly right about that. I really shouldn't even be responding to this one, but it seems like you want a response so I am.

2) I'm not certified. You don't have to be certified to be knowledgeable. And to be honest, I've seen a whole lot of "certified" people who are in terrible shape and really have no clue what they're talking about (not saying that's you). So, being certified doesn't really mean anything except that you've sat through the required courses and taken the required tests to get to say you're certified. I'm certified in construction management, but that doesn't mean I know more than the non-certified guy sitting in the office next to me who has been doing it for years. To answer your questions though, my comments are based on both research and personal experience.

3) I HAVE tried workouts like the one you posted. Do they work? Everything works if you put the right effort into it...at least for a little while. Is it possibly that something else might work better? Absolutely.

4) As for my credentials, pictures, etc...well, I don't really feel like I have anything to prove here and even if I did I tend to not post pictures of myself on the internet unless it's private (hence the profile pic you see). Am I the model picture of human fitness? Absolutely not. I still have another 40 pounds of fat I want to lose. Do I know everything there is to know about fitness? Nope. I have, however, managed to lose and keep off almost 100 pounds of weight while simultaneously making huge gains in strength, speed and endurance...all without being certified or having a trainer...so I must know something about what I'm doing. I've done enough research and tried enough things to have a good idea about what works, what doesn't work and what could work better if it were modified a bit.

With all of that said, you and everyone else are more than welcome to take all of my comments and do whatever you want with them. Despite how it appears, I didn't come here to argue. I came here because I thought I could help others reach their goals and they could help me reach mine. That's the only reason I'm here. If you don't agree with my suggestions then feel free to keep preaching what you're preaching. It won't hurt my feelings one bit.

Humbly.

ShaneT99

By the way, I just looked at your pictures and you've made GREAT progress. Congrats on that. And your daughter (I presume) is a great looking kid. Congrats on that too.

IsMollyReallyHungry

I posted this before in response to another enquiry but to share with those who did not catch it, here it is again.

These are ideas I learned going through Coopers Institute Fitness Training Course. Many power lifters will swear against it but remember they are in it for the competition. You are in it not to get injured while getting fit. Wisdom would say, stay in your zone. There are many ideas on how you can do things. I see no problem with doing it the way you are doing but here are two ways I trained people to do it.

For those building mass:

Monday and Thursday: Chest, Triceps, traps and Shoulders - abs
Tuesday and Friday: Upper and lower back, biceps, and abs
Wednesday and Saturday: Quads, hamstrings, inner/outer abductors, calves, and abs

For those trying to lose weight and gain tone:

Monday/Wednesday/Friday:

(In this order) - and after moderate 30 minutes of cardio. All sets 1 set 15 reps except where noted and a 3 second count between motions
Chest press 1 set of 15 (3 second count up and down)
Incline Chest press
Decline Chest press
Shoulder press
Cable row (keep angle of pulley toward your navel with back straight and do not use momentum)
leg extensions
hamstring curls
inner abductors
outer abductors
calf press
lower back presses
bicep curls (machine) 2 sets
triceps extension (machine) 2 sets

This is a gage but you also take into context the proper technique. Many people go beyond their normal plain of motion which causes problems with their joints so you should at least take a few lessons from a trained and certified personal trainer. Preferably one who does on teaching breaking the plane. Things like you should feel the weight so let the bar touch your chest or you are not working those squats right if your top of your quads are not parallel to the deck. For those who teach that to each his own but for the generalized person who wants to be fit and build a core this is dangerous and sets them up for injuries that will eventually discourage them from going to anyone's gym again. Enough of the macho junk. Lift wise and train for the long run. If you are training for a lifting competition all this goes out of the window because you should be working a trainer and spotter to ensure you are safe as well as stretching constantly but if you want to be around and not deal with the issues of improper training refer to this. Enough said.

Well I did and survived your program for 2 weeks. The 1st week was rough. I had to keep decreasing the weights. So needless to say it took me several trys to get weights correct because as I am sure you already know the weights I was using was way too high! There were only 2 machines where I actually increased the weights. I thought these would affect my knees but so far no issues with my knees.

I was less sore this week but still sore in some areas. I could not believe it. I have been doing weights all this time and could not feel it. Now I am feeling it the next day after each workout. I mean it has lessoned up but I am satisfied and it is a good sore, not pain. I will be honest -- the 1st week I felt like giving up. But I just kept with it. I even do my ab work slower now too and feel them more also. I only did 4 days at gym last week and this week. Last week I missed a weight day and this week I missed Tuesday my all cardio day. I have made Tues and Thurs my all cardio days with abs. Now I have to really get my food in ship shape and I will be good to go.:laugh: :drinker:

Thanks for reminding me about my form and SLOOOOOW movements when doing weight training. This change was just what the Dr. ordered. I like changing my routine every 3 to 4 months because it challenges me and when I can't challenge myself I hire a trainer if I can afford it. This is why I love MFP! It is very cheap.....:-)

I know no one is experts, even the professionals themselves are not experts but I determine what I am capable of doing since I am limited in what I can do. I can't do squats and lunges effectively because I have 2 bad knees. A trainer worked with me on these because she believed that using the body was more effective than using the machines. Before we finished up I had her train me on the machines because I told her I was not going to do that stuff without her there because was too hard and I am lazy and want the help of the machines.:laugh: All the machines you listed were the same machines she taught me on for 3 weeks before wrapping up a 6 month course with her. There were a few more and when I need to switch up my routine I have not forgotten what I was taught. She was awesome too and I learned a lot too. I still use some of her techniques and exercises she taught me with the ball and other stuff. But I knew some of the stuff I was not going to do alone.

Thanks again for your help and reminders! I love it and is quicker too even though I am going SLOWER. I will keep you posted. I am not one to measure but my clothes tell me the story and even though I have lost only 30 pounds I have lost plenty of inches since March. And I think with trying this rountine you recommended I am going to see more good results in the next 3 months. I am going to stick with this at least until January or February.

Have a good weekend and you keep up the good work! Your support means a lot!! You are truly an inspiration to us all!:flowerforyou:

cparter

Mollie,

You are a testament that change brings about opportunity. Education is the key and an open mind redefines what we were into what we will become. Keep up the good work and continue to update us on your journey.