4 days split program - One or two big muscles per session?

Wiltord1982

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for your opinions regarding split programs. I'm currently on my first ever bulk and I'm organized my program like this:

Day 1 - Chest, back, triceps, obliques
Day 2 - Shoulders, legs, biceps, abs
Day 3 - Chest, back, triceps, obliques
ay 4 - Shoulders, legs, biceps, abs

Basically, every big muscle (chest, back, shoulders, legs) gets 4 exercises per session, while every small muscle (abs, obliques, biceps, triceps) gets 3 exercises I'm doing supersets because I get bored when resting between sets. My gym sessions usually last 60 mins, four times per week.

So, I read tons of things about split programs and I'm wondering.... Most websites suggest targeting only one big muscle per session, but isn't it better to target two? This way, each big muscle works twice every week, which means more gains. The rest time is fine (2 or 3 days) in my opinion. Am I missing something here?

So what are your opinions, experiences or views? Is it better to work big muscles once or twice per week?

SideSteel

What are your goals and how many sets per exercise are you doing with the above?

Wiltord1982

Im aiming for mass gain. I usually go for 3 sets of 8 reps.

j6o4

My program is

day 1- shoulder, chest, triceps
day 2- back
day 3- legs
day 4- chest, shoulder, triceps
day 5- back & legs

and I do one exercise for my core on all those days. With this, I hit every body part twice a week.

Snow3y

Why dontlegs have their own day?

I use a 3day split, legs - push - pull - rest -repeat

eric_sg61

Is it better to work big muscles once or twice per week?

You should train as frequently as you can recover. But, it all depends on volume and intensity.

SideSteel

Im aiming for mass gain. I usually go for 3 sets of 8 reps.

I think 4 exercises per bodypart at 3 sets per exercise is probably more volume than you need.

This means that for one day for example

(Chest, back, triceps, obliques)

Bench Press 3x8
Incline Bench 3x8
Decline Bench 3x8
Chest Flies 3x8


Pendlay Rows 3x8
Chin ups 3x8
DB Rows 3x8
Face Pulls 3x8

Skullcrushers 3x8
Overhead tricep extensions 3x8
CGBP 3x8

Plus oblique work



Looking at it per the above example, I would question the need to perform that much volume per muscle group.

Are your lifts increasing as you go?

taryn_09

im bulking right now and this is what has been working for me
back biceps
legs
chest triceps
shoulders

REST
then repeat.

so a four on one off split.
works muscles every 5 days basically rather than a week.
some weeks you lift 5 times, some you lift 6 times depending on when the fourth day hits.
ive had great muscle growth.

reps around 8 including dropsets on accessory work.
also leg day has to have its own day for me. but i do a lot on that so pairing it with something else would kill me.
those days i do squats 5/5 and then other exercises around 10 (since legs are normally worked more compared to other body parts)

macros - 40/35/25 p c f since nutrition is a big aspect too.

Wiltord1982

(Sorry, I can't quote on my tablet)

SideSteel, that program you wrote is very similar to what I currently do. I usually pair chest/back and triceps/obliques in supersets.

I've been lifting like that for a month, along proper nutrition (2600 cals, 180g proteins. I weigh 160), and the weights increased in most exercises. There might be some noob gain, but I was already lifting before bulking (I was in fat loss mode)

SideSteel

(Sorry, I can't quote on my tablet)

SideSteel, that program you wrote is very similar to what I currently do. I usually pair chest/back and triceps/obliques in supersets.

I've been lifting like that for a month, along proper nutrition (2600 cals, 180g proteins. I weigh 160), and the weights increased in most exercises. There might be some noob gain, but I was already lifting before bulking (I was in fat loss mode)

So to me the question isn't whether or not your current program will work. The question I would pose would be whether or not you would get equal results with less volume and additionally whether or not you would make greater strength gains with less volume due to potentially having increased recovery.

Wiltord1982

Alright, I will reflect on that. Thanks for the input!

grantdumas7

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for your opinions regarding split programs. I'm currently on my first ever bulk and I'm organized my program like this:

Day 1 - Chest, back, triceps, obliques
Day 2 - Shoulders, legs, biceps, abs
Day 3 - Chest, back, triceps, obliques
ay 4 - Shoulders, legs, biceps, abs

Basically, every big muscle (chest, back, shoulders, legs) gets 4 exercises per session, while every small muscle (abs, obliques, biceps, triceps) gets 3 exercises I'm doing supersets because I get bored when resting between sets. My gym sessions usually last 60 mins, four times per week.

So, I read tons of things about split programs and I'm wondering.... Most websites suggest targeting only one big muscle per session, but isn't it better to target two? This way, each big muscle works twice every week, which means more gains. The rest time is fine (2 or 3 days) in my opinion. Am I missing something here?

So what are your opinions, experiences or views? Is it better to work big muscles once or twice per week?

The problem that jumps out to me with this spit is you are working your shoulders and tris either directly or indirectly every workout. Pressing movements for your chest also hit shoulder and tris. Pressing movements for shoulders also hit tris and if you are doing barbel overhead press to the front, you are hitting your upper chest.

rocketfish74

Deadlifts, deadlifts, deadlifts. That and clean and press or olympic lifts will get you the most functional strength gains. Also push up variations, chin ups/dips (weighted or body).

Most everything else is just to look good.

togmo

So many programs out there to try if you are bulking - don't try to reinvent the wheel, do some research and follow someone else's program.

My favourite is Jim Stoppani's shortcut to size.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/docs/2011/shortcut-to-size-e-book.pdf

feedthebohemian

I'm currently doing:
Day 1: Chest and Back, Abs
Day 2: Biceps and Triceps, Abs
Day 3: Shoulder and Legs, Abs
Day 4: Rest

I'm doing 3 sets of 10 reps for all of my exercises (except abs, that's 2 sets of 15 reps), and I'm usually in the gym for two hours. It's working great for me so far.

KaitieBug

bump!

OverDoIt

Here is my two cents. Every person is different, that is why there are so many systems out there. There are really no set rules. I have many volumes of books dating back to the 50's all the way up to 2013. Some just repeat each other, and some are so crazy they just might work. However, there is one thing I can tell you for sure. If you train too frequently, your joints will become inflamed and your strength will suffer. I have tried heavy duty, max ot, dog crapp, 6's and 3's, 8x8, 5x5, low volume, high volume, and came to the conclusion that the best system of all is consistency. Diet is #1 and Training is #2. The mirror will tell you if you are on the right path. Stick to your guns, and listen to your body. You can do whatever you want my friend, and I hope all of your dreams and aspirations come true.

OverDoIt

Oh yes, ditto on those deadlifts. Clock in and get to work !!!!!

bluetuesday5

In my opinion it makes more sense to hit chest, shoulders and triceps all in one day as they all work together. I would have 2 days working these muscles per week, one day start off with a heavy overhead press and then lighter dumbbell presses for chest. The other day start off with a heavy bench press, and then lighter dumbbell presses for shoulders. That said I normally follow a full body or upper/lower program.

PtheronJr

You need days where you work your legs exclusively.
Seriously.
You can try to ignore it, probably ignore this post maybe, ignore every other person who's going to say it. Give it its own day.
But work your damn legs or you are going to look stupid.

Helloitsdan

(Sorry, I can't quote on my tablet)

SideSteel, that program you wrote is very similar to what I currently do. I usually pair chest/back and triceps/obliques in supersets.

I've been lifting like that for a month, along proper nutrition (2600 cals, 180g proteins. I weigh 160), and the weights increased in most exercises. There might be some noob gain, but I was already lifting before bulking (I was in fat loss mode)

So to me the question isn't whether or not your current program will work. The question I would pose would be whether or not you would get equal results with less volume and additionally whether or not you would make greater strength gains with less volume due to potentially having increased recovery.

This by 1000%.

SS couldn't he also run a similar low vol/high intensity program but vary the reps every 4 weeks to avoid adaptation?
5th week deload.

2 Days a week

Day 1
Squats
Bench
Row

Day 2
OHP or similar
Close gr Bench
Deadlift

Accessorize with chins/pulls

Week 1 8reps 40% 1RM
Week 2 5reps 60% 1RM
Week 3 3reps 80% 1RM
Week 4 Singles 90+% 1RM
Week 5 de-load to work on sticking point or speed sets or GPP or lactic threshold etc....

ndj1979

I do a four day upper/lower split..

so it goes day 1 - upper bench press, dumbbell overhead press, low row, weighted chin-ups, lat pulldown
day 2 lower - barbell squat, sumo DL, dumbbell lunge, calf raises
day three upper - dumbbell incline press, weighted pull up, barbell overhead press, iso lateral row, dumbbell lateral raise
day four lower - deadlift, front squat, leg curl, calfs

Mrsallypants

What do you do for forearms, traps, calves, and possibly neck if you have proportion problems. Lower back tends to be a neglected bodypart unless you do RDL's or deadlifts.

Heavy conventional deadlifts can be problematic in high volume bodybuilding programs where you work all bodyparts twice weekly I find. The exercise is extremely taxing on your body and CNS and can interfere with the overall program. Stiff legged (with straight legs) and RDL's I find are good subs.

I did PHAT for two months at the end of my bulk and saw great results, especially my legs. PHAT is interesting because for some exercises you only do two sets. Four exercises for three sets twice weekly could potentially burn you out pretty quickly - it is a lot of volume.

jimmmer

I do a four day upper/lower split..

so it goes day 1 - upper bench press, dumbbell overhead press, low row, weighted chin-ups, lat pulldown
day 2 lower - barbell squat, sumo DL, dumbbell lunge, calf raises
day three upper - dumbbell incline press, weighted pull up, barbell overhead press, iso lateral row, dumbbell lateral raise
day four lower - deadlift, front squat, leg curl, calfs

I do something not a million miles from this myself:

Day 1: Bench, BOR, Military Press, Pull Ups
Day 2: Squats, RDL, Bulgarians, Calves

Day 3: Push Press, Pendlay Rows, Dips, Chins
Day 4: P. Clean, Deadlift, Front Squat, Calves

Tend to do lower reps/more sets for the first two exercises of the day, more reps/less sets for the second two of the day. Do rep progression every week, then at the end of the cycle drop back down on the reps and up the weights.

ETA: I am actually cutting at the mo, but I see no reason that this wouldn't work for bulking too....

grantdumas7

Wiltord,
Whatever program you decide on, stick with it for at least 6 months. That way you can get an idea if it's working or not and your able to progress. Don't keep switching routines just because some big guy in the gym is doing it or you read it about it online.