The 'Fat Acceptance' Movement

Wiseandcurious

Every person on this site has my respect no matter your shape or size because you all want to be the best you can be. It is the people that say, "Aww **** it, I don't care." that I can't stand.

Your capacity to feel respect for others (or conversely, not being able to stand them) is a reflection on your own values, therefore in no way relevant to any objective and intelligent discussion that might be going on. I think that was what the other poster was trying to tell you.

Let's try this another way so that it's not so much over your head:

You just said, in that sentence I quoted above and in your previous post (quoted below), to anyone on MFP who has been very overweight for years but its now trying to lose weight, "Hey you s**kers, I think you were total losers before you tried and if I had met you in the street (or was it farmer's market?) before I would have looked at you with ridicule and contempt and thought of you like slime, but now that you're finally trying, you're suddenly human to me".

Guess how much respect that earned you...

ETA: the second quote I mentioned, for fairness:

Went to the food market the other day. Some people are so fat they take up the entire isle and spend 20 minutes leaning over trying to get their food. I don't care if someone is fat, but it has reached the point where people are so fat they are becoming a fire hazard. When you put 2 of them in the same isle it takes a high level of agility to wiggle and dart past them. I have no problem with people who are fat that honest to God want to lose the weight (even if they have tried and failed, at least they care), but people who just accept it are not high on my respect list.

tedrickp

Do you mean the blog post or the EOSS study? Not being a jerk - this is all relatively new to me myself (this particular topic)

Is this what you meant...

---

Metabolically healthy obese people are at a reduced risk of disease compared to metabolically unhealthy obese, but still at a higher risk level than metabolically healthy lean people.

---

IMO this still shows that you can't judge health based on bodyweight alone. The metabolically healthy obese people, are at higher risk than metabolically healthy lean people...granted. But that statement doesn't mention metabolically unhealthy lean people.

While I don;t support the "healthy at ANY size" movement (thanks to neandermagnon setting me straight) - I still think that bodyweight ranks lower than other risk factors.

Just saw your edit - yeah I wouldn't argue that metabolically healthy obese people are healthier than metabolically lean people. I concede that and should have mentioned it earlier :drinker:

But judging someone's health due to their size is still a slippery slope because if they exhibit no risk factors, and a lean person exhibits more than one - then the obese person is potentially healthier (short term and long term).

I think less focus on bodyweight, and more focus on health risk factors is the key.

EDIT: for me personally I am getting fit to eliminate my risk factors - and I understand for the majority (80-90%) of obese people they should be doing just that. I don't want people to think I am saying STAY FAT...not at all.

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WheezyFbb

Do you mean the blog post or the EOSS study? Not being a jerk - this is all relatively new to me myself (this particular topic)

Is this what you meant...

---

Metabolically healthy obese people are at a reduced risk of disease compared to metabolically unhealthy obese, but still at a higher risk level than metabolically healthy lean people.

---

IMO this still shows that you can't judge health based on bodyweight alone. The metabolically healthy obese people, are at higher risk than metabolically healthy lean people...granted. But that statement doesn't mention metabolically unhealthy lean people.

While I don;t support the "healthy at ANY size" movement (thanks to neandermagnon setting me straight) - I still think that bodyweight ranks lower than other risk factors.

Just saw your edit - yeah I wouldn't argue that metabolically healthy obese people are healthier than metabolically lean people. I concede that and should have mentioned it earlier :drinker:

But judging someone's health due to their size is still a slippery slope because if they exhibit no risk factors, and a lean person exhibits more than one - then the obese person is potentially healthier (short term and long term).

I think less focus on bodyweight, and more focus on health risk factors is the key.

EDIT: for me personally I am getting fit to eliminate my risk factors - and I understand for the majority (80-90%) of obese people they should be doing just that. I don't want people to think I am saying STAY FAT...not at all.

Being morbidly obese is a risk factor itself. Is it the only one? Of course not. However, if you take two guys that are virtually identical except one is morbidly obese and the other is at a normal weight, the one that is morbidly obese will have a significantly higher chance of developing conditions such as diabetes, arthritis, coronary artery disease, HTN, CKD, heart failure, sleep apnea, etc. than the normal weight individual. Will every morbidly obese individual develop all of these conditions? Of course not, just like not all smokers end up with COPD or lung cancer, but it sure as heck increases their risk.

In that regard, morbid obesity is no different than smoking or alcoholism. They are all largely lifestyle choices that will negatively impact your life in the long run. We shouldn't discriminate the people who lead these lifestyles, but we shouldn't turn a blind eye and pretend that it's all fine and dandy either.

The anti-smoking campaign was fairly successful in decreasing the number of smokers and the incidence of lung cancer by drawing attention to the harms smoking. Just imagine if instead of that, we had a Smoking Acceptance campaign... There would be a heck of lot more people smoking and dying of lung cancer today.

Ctrum69

Sigh. To the folks against the fat acceptance movement because they think that fatness is unacceptable:

STOP JUDGING PEOPLE for their appearance!!! It is not anyone's job to be acceptable.

Whether or not a person is fat, or skinny, or healthy, or unhealthy, has no effect on whether or not they are acceptable.

This is my humble opinion...

^^this^^

If you have a problem with fat, then don't have any. It's as simple as that.

People going "Oh Emm Gee! Look at this fat acceptance movement! THis is horrible".. no, what's horrible is that you cannot, or will not, accept that the choices you make for yourself are your own, and you do not get to make them for anyone else.

I'll wager 90% of the people who get into trouble at FA sites (that arent loony feeder sites) do so because they have the attitude that inside every fat person is just a skinny person waiting to get out, and they, personally, will be the Yoda that makes that transformation happen.

"acceptance" doesn't come with "but..".

i'm not a huge fan of liver. So I choose not to eat it. I don't feel the need to crow about my lack of eating it, nor to for some reason judge the people who do eat it as either better or worse than me. How fat someone is doesn't affect me in the slightest. Therefore, my opinion on it, and them, is meaningless.

mccindy72

Do you mean the blog post or the EOSS study? Not being a jerk - this is all relatively new to me myself (this particular topic)

Is this what you meant...

---

Metabolically healthy obese people are at a reduced risk of disease compared to metabolically unhealthy obese, but still at a higher risk level than metabolically healthy lean people.

---

IMO this still shows that you can't judge health based on bodyweight alone. The metabolically healthy obese people, are at higher risk than metabolically healthy lean people...granted. But that statement doesn't mention metabolically unhealthy lean people.

While I don;t support the "healthy at ANY size" movement (thanks to neandermagnon setting me straight) - I still think that bodyweight ranks lower than other risk factors.

Just saw your edit - yeah I wouldn't argue that metabolically healthy obese people are healthier than metabolically lean people. I concede that and should have mentioned it earlier :drinker:

But judging someone's health due to their size is still a slippery slope because if they exhibit no risk factors, and a lean person exhibits more than one - then the obese person is potentially healthier (short term and long term).

I think less focus on bodyweight, and more focus on health risk factors is the key.

EDIT: for me personally I am getting fit to eliminate my risk factors - and I understand for the majority (80-90%) of obese people they should be doing just that. I don't want people to think I am saying STAY FAT...not at all.

Being morbidly obese is a risk factor itself. Is it the only one? Of course not. However, if you take two guys that are virtually identical except one is morbidly obese and the other is at a normal weight, the one that is morbidly obese will have a significantly higher chance of developing conditions such as diabetes, arthritis, coronary artery disease, HTN, CKD, heart failure, sleep apnea, etc. than the normal weight individual. Will every morbidly obese individual develop all of these conditions? Of course not, just like not all smokers end up with COPD or lung cancer, but it sure as heck increases their risk.

In that regard, morbid obesity is no different than smoking or alcoholism. They are all largely lifestyle choices that will negatively impact your life in the long run. We shouldn't discriminate the people who lead these lifestyles, but we shouldn't turn a blind eye and pretend that it's all fine and dandy either.

The anti-smoking campaign was fairly successful in decreasing the number of smokers and the incidence of lung cancer by drawing attention to the harms smoking. Just imagine if instead of that, we had a Smoking Acceptance campaign... There would be a heck of lot more people smoking and dying of lung cancer today.

Except cancer isn't what kills most smokers.

uconnwinsnc

Every person on this site has my respect no matter your shape or size because you all want to be the best you can be. It is the people that say, "Aww **** it, I don't care." that I can't stand.

Your capacity to feel respect for others (or conversely, not being able to stand them) is a reflection on your own values, therefore in no way relevant to any objective and intelligent discussion that might be going on. I think that was what the other poster was trying to tell you.

Let's try this another way so that it's not so much over your head:

You just said, in that sentence I quoted above and in your previous post (quoted below), to anyone on MFP who has been very overweight for years but its now trying to lose weight, "Hey you s**kers, I think you were total losers before you tried and if I had met you in the street (or was it farmer's market?) before I would have looked at you with ridicule and contempt and thought of you like slime, but now that you're finally trying, you're suddenly human to me".

Guess how much respect that earned you...

ETA: the second quote I mentioned, for fairness:

Went to the food market the other day. Some people are so fat they take up the entire isle and spend 20 minutes leaning over trying to get their food. I don't care if someone is fat, but it has reached the point where people are so fat they are becoming a fire hazard. When you put 2 of them in the same isle it takes a high level of agility to wiggle and dart past them. I have no problem with people who are fat that honest to God want to lose the weight (even if they have tried and failed, at least they care), but people who just accept it are not high on my respect list.

We have reached a point in our society where people are getting SO FAT that they are actually becoming a hazard. My friends dad is 500 pounds and he tries to drive his car but can barely turn the wheel or press the break pedal he is so fat. He gets into accidents all the time because he cannot control the car. There are people who can barely fit through doorways, and if there were ever a crisis situation, the poor person would be unable to get out of the building and would hold up other people. Firemen won't be able to lift some of these people out of fires. Ambulances won't be able to rush these people to hospitals. God forbid another 9/11 happens and people have to walk down flights of stairs. Some people are too fat to do their jobs, even if their job requires them to sit a desk and walk 10 feet to a copy machine every hour. Some people are just too out of shape to do even that. Look, I understand some people have medical issues, but there are people who are just fat because they eat too much. People have gotten out of control with how fat they've become and it is asinine to "accept everyone for who they are." This isn't about making fun of someone for what they look like, this is about understanding the consequences of being morbidly obese. People who accept obesity don't understand the burden it places on society to take care of these people.

So go ahead and put made up quotes in my mouth and try and mock me for not being intellectual, but I lived the life of being bullied and being fat. I was a piece of **** who ate too much and now am trying to better myself. I don't want to die in a car accident because I was too fat to get myself out of a burning vehicle.

Ctrum69

Every person on this site has my respect no matter your shape or size because you all want to be the best you can be. It is the people that say, "Aww **** it, I don't care." that I can't stand.

Your capacity to feel respect for others (or conversely, not being able to stand them) is a reflection on your own values, therefore in no way relevant to any objective and intelligent discussion that might be going on. I think that was what the other poster was trying to tell you.

Let's try this another way so that it's not so much over your head:

You just said, in that sentence I quoted above and in your previous post (quoted below), to anyone on MFP who has been very overweight for years but its now trying to lose weight, "Hey you s**kers, I think you were total losers before you tried and if I had met you in the street (or was it farmer's market?) before I would have looked at you with ridicule and contempt and thought of you like slime, but now that you're finally trying, you're suddenly human to me".

Guess how much respect that earned you...

ETA: the second quote I mentioned, for fairness:

Went to the food market the other day. Some people are so fat they take up the entire isle and spend 20 minutes leaning over trying to get their food. I don't care if someone is fat, but it has reached the point where people are so fat they are becoming a fire hazard. When you put 2 of them in the same isle it takes a high level of agility to wiggle and dart past them. I have no problem with people who are fat that honest to God want to lose the weight (even if they have tried and failed, at least they care), but people who just accept it are not high on my respect list.

We have reached a point in our society where people are getting SO FAT that they are actually becoming a hazard. My friends dad is 500 pounds and he tries to drive his car but can barely turn the wheel or press the break pedal he is so fat. He gets into accidents all the time because he cannot control the car. There are people who can barely fit through doorways, and if there were ever a crisis situation, the poor person would be unable to get out of the building and would hold up other people. Firemen won't be able to lift some of these people out of fires. Ambulances won't be able to rush these people to hospitals. God forbid another 9/11 happens and people have to walk down flights of stairs. Some people are too fat to do their jobs, even if their job requires them to sit a desk and walk 10 feet to a copy machine every hour. Some people are just too out of shape to do even that. Look, I understand some people have medical issues, but there are people who are just fat because they eat too much. People have gotten out of control with how fat they've become and it is asinine to "accept everyone for who they are." This isn't about making fun of someone for what they look like, this is about understanding the consequences of being morbidly obese. People who accept obesity don't understand the burden it places on society to take care of these people.

So go ahead and put made up quotes in my mouth and try and mock me for not being intellectual, but I lived the life of being bullied and being fat. I was a piece of **** who ate too much and now am trying to better myself. I don't want to die in a car accident because I was too fat to get myself out of a burning vehicle.

Don't project your own self loathing on others.

The choices you make for yourself are yours. Assuming that all right thinking people will agree with you, and therefore, if they don't they are contemptible is where you fail.

You are fully within your rights to decide who earns your respect and who does not.

If you live your life and base your decisions on whether or not those decisions are beneficial or detrimental to society, that is your choice. Demanding others do so is not.

uconnwinsnc

People can do what they want with their life, I just don't want to see people die in a fire because they are too fat to get out of their house since they decided it was OK to be that fat. I don't want to see a person crash into a school bus of children because their gut was hindering their ability to steer a car. I don't want a person living alone to trip, hurt themselves, and be too fat to get up and call 911.

Ctrum69

People can do what they want with their life, I just don't want to see people die in a fire because they are too fat to get out of their house since they decided it was OK to be that fat. I don't want to see a person crash into a school bus of children because their gut was hindering their ability to steer a car. I don't want a person living alone to trip, hurt themselves, and be too fat to get up and call 911.

I don't want to see people be so narcissistic that they think their decisions are a good reason to deride others.

Guess we are both in for dissapointment.

uconnwinsnc

People can do what they want with their life, I just don't want to see people die in a fire because they are too fat to get out of their house since they decided it was OK to be that fat. I don't want to see a person crash into a school bus of children because their gut was hindering their ability to steer a car. I don't want a person living alone to trip, hurt themselves, and be too fat to get up and call 911.

I don't want to see people be so narcissistic that they think their decisions are a good reason to deride others.

Guess we are both in for dissapointment.

I guess we are, buddy.

uconnwinsnc

Anyways I figure people are very emotionally attached to their own opinion, and internet opinions usually just turn into a fight.

tracysway

I have worked in healthcare for over ten years. I have never seen a femur of a normal weight or evely a little overweight break. I have cared for patients where the weight of their own body broke their femur. Yes that person has an uphill struggle to regain some form of life. These patients suffer from multiple complications, pneumaonia-simlpy because the lungs cannot expand under the weight og their chest, infections-due to diabetes, heart disease (less blood flow) and too much fat tissue. The skin can be closed with sutures and so can the muscle but not the fat. beyond the strain of the obese persons weight on them, what about the nurses aides and nurses and doctors and therapists that are putting their career on the lines just to assist the patient in rolling over or trying to rehab them out of bed. I have seen careers ended because the nurse assisting was unable to maintain proper body mechanics. Healthcare professionals will instintively sacrafice themselves in order to protect a patient from getting hurt. Being morbidly obese does not only affect the person that is overweight, it affects any person that cares for them. People can be overwight and all the numbers are in the healthy range but what is the longterm toll on them and society?

F00LofaT00K

I agree with a body acceptance movement. Everybody is entitled to be happy, regardless of their weight. We don't shame people who have an eating disorder such as anorexia or bulimia, but many people feel that it is okay to shame the eating disordered where over-eating is concerned. It does just as much damage to their self-esteem and they are struggling just as much with their mental health as anybody who is starving themselves. That being said, many people who advocate a fat acceptance or body acceptance movement are sometimes inadvertently shaming those who are in shape and fit.

Phrases such as "REAL women have curves!" and "I'd rather be happy than skinny" can be incredibly hurtful. Women who are very fit a.k.a. "without curves" have faced just as many hardships in life as curvy women. Choosing to work hard to stay in shape or get healthy doesn't make you less of a woman. Some women are shaped like a rectangle and no matter how heavy they are, they will never have curves. I fail to see how this makes them not "real." Thin women who lead very active lives but stuff their faces aren't starving themselves, as some are wrongfully accused. Real women have curves, are flat chested, work out, get fat, etc. etc. Real women come in many different types and to say one is more real than the other is disgusting IMO.

As for preferring happiness over fitness ("I'd rather be happy than skinny") implies that if somebody is skinny, they are unhappy. Many people who are overweight are unhappy and many are happy. Same with people who are fit. If food is the only thing that provides somebody with happiness, than I doubt very much that they are truly happy at all. If being in shape makes somebody feel good about themselves and happy that is perfectly fine by me. If somebody really wants to be very overweight and just enjoy ALL the food, go them! It doesn't affect me one way or the other.

I really think everybody should just mind their own business and stop making people feel like crap, regardless of their perceived justification(s). Let the fat be fat and the fit be fit. Try judging people based on WHO they are and not how they appear. It's one thing to discuss your concern for an overweight loved one's health and another to shame a stranger for their obesity. One is your business, the other is not. It seems rather simple to me.

artemesiapainted

The real laugh for me is the people who proclaim that fit people have "thin privilege". That is, one aspect of thin privilege is that we can enjoy being " carried over the threshold" by our partners. I wish I was kidding. Thankfully, this "fat" (more like "ridiculously obese" acceptance is mostly confined to whiny Tumblr blogs and other low-effort fatty forums. I don't see them marching for civil rights any time soon. That would require getting up.

Meerataila

The real laugh for me is the people who proclaim that fit people have "thin privilege". That is, one aspect of thin privilege is that we can enjoy being " carried over the threshold" by our partners. I wish I was kidding. Thankfully, this "fat" (more like "ridiculously obese" acceptance is mostly confined to whiny Tumblr blogs and other low-effort fatty forums. I don't see them marching for civil rights any time soon. That would require getting up.

Oh look, a one post drive by dittohead. The irony is getting mighty thick in here.

phil6707

very well said

Vailara

How do you feel about the Fat Acceptance movement? After looking at a few blogs, I don't understand why it's celebrated whereas Pro-Anorexia websites are vilified. Both are unhealthy extremes.

I haven't read the whole thread. But I just wanted to point out one major difference - pro-anorexia is encouraging people to become thin, but fat acceptance is not encouraging people to become fat.

I don't see anything terribly controversial about the statement you linked to: "everyone should wear whatever they want and feel good about being naked". It seems to be well known that making people feel bad doesn't help them lose weight (whereas making them feel good about their bodies might be more likely to make them look after their bodies).

tmj4477

Most of what I have to say is similar to the comments of others, but I thought I'd add my two cents.

I am ambivalent about the fat acceptance movement, but I think it's due the the name more than anything else. I think, that as a society, we place way too much emphasis on peoples' appearances, I find it disturbing that most of the women who are held up as the standard for physical beauty are actually underweight. Meanwhile, women in Hollywood who are actually within the healthy weight range are called fat by many. While men are certainly judged on their appearance as well, I'd argue that it is generally more severe for woman. It's a shame that so many girls are bombarded with the message that their value is so dependent on their physical attractiveness, while intelligence is valued far less.

I whole heartedly agree with the FA movement's premise that we should stop focusing on a narrow ideal of physical beauty, and try instead to emphasize less superficial qualities. I also agree that overweight people face discrimination, and that many are quick to make harsh judgement's about people simply because they are overweight, assuming they are lazy, uncleanly, stupid, etc.

As stated by others, I view being severely overweight as akin to other addictions like smoking, alcoholism and drug addiction. All involve a certain amount of choice, and all can kill you if left unchecked. While some will be quick to say "you can be overweight and healthy," I find this a specious argument similar to saying "my uncle smoked for 50 years and never got lung cancer." Of course there are exceptions, but in general, being overweight is detrimental to ones health.

Anyone who has watched someone struggle with addiction knows that changing is not a simple matter of willpower. Shaming someone who has an addiction, or assuming that because someone is overweight they must be lazy, is ignorant and counter productive. Yet I do not think a doctor recommending that his or her patient lose weight equates to shaming, any more that it would if that doctor were to recommending giving up smoking, drinking or drugs. I think the issue that many have with the FA idea is the word "acceptance." Most people wouldn't support a movement called "smoking acceptance" or "binge drinking acceptance," and in my mind fat acceptance sounds much the same.

Ultimately, the focus should be on health, not appearance. Every person deserves to be valued regardless of their appearance, though I am not hopeful that we, as a society, will move past the fixation on the current ideal of physical beauty. No one should be made to feel ashamed because they struggle with obesity or another addiction, and when they are ready to change they should have the support of their doctor and those close to them.

The most logical comment I've read

jerber160

bump