Struggling to reach target for muscle gain

goredguar

I'm currently trying to build muscle, and I'm finding it difficult to reach 1700 a day, let alone the 2000 I need (due to cardio and wanting to build muscle). I suffered from an ED in the past so my stomach still can't take too much without feeling full or sick. I can't eat little and often, as I'm normally in 2 hour lectures where they won't let you have anything except water (due to not wanting to have to clean up spills and food mess I guess).

Thing is, that was easy when I just wanted to gain weight to recover, as I could eat high calorie sugary food. I'm also maintaining ok, it's just boosting to get that extra bit for muscle (especially now that I run 3 times a week for my heart health).

But now that I'm looking to gain muscle, I want to eat more healthy nutrient-based things (because too much sugar makes me sleepy after a while, and because nutrients are long run).
Don't get me wrong, I eat sugars, but I'd rather my excess calories came from something with more nutritional value.

So if high calorie sugar/fat foods, and nuts (allergy) are off the menu, what can I go for?

For example, would guacamole/avocado be a good option (since it's relatively calorie dense) etc? I also love 70% dark chocolate, is this ok (due to the high cocoa content and antioxidants vs milk chocolate).

SpecialSundae

Cut back on the cardio?

I know the troubles of trying to eat enough for a bulk without eating crap, so you have my sympathy but I can't really help much other than suggesting you push through the bloaty feeling for a few days and it'll get better.

goredguar

So is it ok to eat more 'crappy' deemed food (ie muffins, etc) as long as you get the calories and protein in? (without going overboard on the fats/sugars to avoid atherosclerosis/diabetes)

I say this because I've seen nothing but "eat clean" on these bodybuilding sites, but it seems a lot of hype. I'd put up with the tired bloaty feeling if I knew it was worth it. It's so confusing, I find one person saying one thing, then another website saying another...etc etc. Guess I'm just worried that the extra calories will turn to fat if they're not protein (as muscle requires amino acids to build, which you can only get from protein. Though, granted, protein is in flour, dairy, eggs, so things like cake and that would contain it!)

(Your profile pic is ace by the way, congratulations!)

NRBreit

So is it ok to eat more 'crappy' deemed food (ie muffins, etc) as long as you get the calories and protein in? (without going overboard on the fats/sugars to avoid atherosclerosis/diabetes)

IIFYM. But, it's hard to hit your macros if you're eating a bunch of crap.

goredguar

Mmm, maybe I ought to invest in some protein powder or something then. Not too heavy on the stomach and it gets it in.

Thanks for the advice!

AliceDark

Especially since you've had an ED in the past, don't overthink this. Get your protein in, but after that, just get to 2000 however you can. Calorically dense foods like avocado and dark chocolate should be your new best friends, and they will help with the gross, over-stuffed feeling. The mental part is difficult at first, since it's pretty much the opposite of every piece of diet advice you've ever heard, but it gets easier. Whole milk, if you can have dairy, is a lifesaver for those days when you just can't eat another darn thing.

goredguar

@AliceDark - Yeah, it's a bit strange trying to contemplate this, since every female-thing going seems to be "eat less! More cardio!" and this is like the exact opposite XD

But since I'm doing a muscle physiology course in my biomedical sciences degree, it makes sense that in order to build muscle bulk (which is due to hypertrophy of the cells when you stress them after weight training, not new cells forming) I need to eat more, especially since muscle requires more energy than fat to 'build'! Just need to keep telling myself this haa haa.

Protein wise, what should I be shooting for? Is the 1g per 1lb body weight ok for a beginner?

SpecialSundae

Protein wise, what should I be shooting for? Is the 1g per 1lb body weight ok for a beginner?

That's plenty. :-)

As others have said, don't stress too much about eating chocolate/ice cream IIFYM (although do try and eat 5+ portions of fruit and veg a day for micronutrients and fibre).

Avocados are awesome for calories, good fats and fibre and you can just throw the flesh into smoothies if you don't feel like eating it alone (or do what I always used to do as a treat and have them sliced in half with vinaigrette eaten with a teaspoon).

CarlHelgesson

Try to concentrate your fast carbs, sugars, etc around your workout. In that way you are using your insulin when you need it the most. Insulin is our most anabolic hormone.

On the other meals of the day, try to eat more fats. Raise your protein intake. Eat plenty of good carbs.

You can also take som MCT (Medium Chain Triglicerides) fat before training, which is a fat that is passing our system very quickly. Because of that MCT oil are passing our system so quickly, the glycogen is spared during physical activity.

If it's hard for you to eat all the kcals you need, you can add a Mass Gainer as a meal.

goredguar

Awesome, thanks once again everyone. I'll be checking to see what progress I make in the next month, and adjusting the intakes etc accordingly. Going to go stock up on avocado and things tomorrow XD

OverDoIt

The reality of eating clean to gain is that it is excrutiating. "Clean" foods are typically lower calorie, and require that you feed a minimum of 4 times per day. the reason many bodybuilders, and power lifters eat 6-7 times a day is because eating 'clean" food to meet your macros is quite difficult with only 3-4 meals. Believe me when I tell you, it is painful to eat large ammounts of chicken breast, eggs, oatmeal, rice, etc.. I find eating red meat is helpful from time to time. You may want to look into a liquid amino supplement, as this will help feed your muscles when you cannot eat. Many people will scoff at that, but I can tell you for a fact that amino's do work if dosed correctly. The task you are trying to accomplish is quite daunting at times. Do not ever give up, because it takes alot of time and commitment. Strength and size are measured in time.

SteveJWatson

If it's hard for you to eat all the kcals you need, you can add a Mass Gainer as a meal.

Or just eat some cake. Cake is tastier.

TavistockToad

what are your stats for you to maintain on 1700? seem sfairly low?

also, if you get decent peanut butter that is basically just peanut, its 'clean' and loads of cals!

ndj1979

how much are you lifting?

if you are running three times a week you are going to have a hard time adding muscle..

Remember there is no "crap food" there is just food that your body uses for energy. If you are having a hard time getting to your target then add in some ice cream …230 calories per serving ….

goredguar

what are your stats for you to maintain on 1700? seem sfairly low?

also, if you get decent peanut butter that is basically just peanut, its 'clean' and loads of cals!

5"4 high, 110lbs.
Awww I would but I can't eat nuts due to an allergy

how much are you lifting?

if you are running three times a week you are going to have a hard time adding muscle..

Remember there is no "crap food" there is just food that your body uses for energy. If you are having a hard time getting to your target then add in some ice cream …230 calories per serving ….

At the moment I'm lifting 13kg (6.5 per dumbbell), and I find I drop from 12 to 10 on a few of the last sets of 3 (especially on the tricep dumbbell kickback, I may have to use lighter weights for that one, I can do it with a 5kg dumbbell). I don't think I'd be able to go above 13kg at the moment as my reps would drop below 10, right now I push myself to achieve 10-12 on the last set. Does this sound right?

Bought some powdered whey protein today, gonna chuck it in my porridge etc to try to bump up the calorie and protein intake (especially since I'm a student, so I can't buy meat other than chicken that often, which I get fed up of!).

And I'm glad to see ice cream is ok XD It makes sense I guess (other than the calorie part), as it's made from dairy products (unless it's the cheaper vegetable oil one) - so calcium and protein, huzzah.

Ashes_To_Beast

Try to concentrate your fast carbs, sugars, etc around your workout. In that way you are using your insulin when you need it the most. Insulin is our most anabolic hormone.

On the other meals of the day, try to eat more fats. Raise your protein intake. Eat plenty of good carbs.

You can also take som MCT (Medium Chain Triglicerides) fat before training, which is a fat that is passing our system very quickly. Because of that MCT oil are passing our system so quickly, the glycogen is spared during physical activity.

If it's hard for you to eat all the kcals you need, you can add a Mass Gainer as a meal.

Everything he said!
And you might want to try Fruit & Veggie mix drinks, V8 has some good ones,easy way to add cals
Also I saw that you mostly eat chicken, if you want to add muscle and your not to worried about cals try adding some beef to your diet

skinnyinnotime

So is it ok to eat more 'crappy' deemed food (ie muffins, etc) as long as you get the calories and protein in? (without going overboard on the fats/sugars to avoid atherosclerosis/diabetes)

I believe that if you do go the 'eat anything' route whilst bulking you're going to gain more fat than if you ate 'cleaner'.

SteveJWatson

So is it ok to eat more 'crappy' deemed food (ie muffins, etc) as long as you get the calories and protein in? (without going overboard on the fats/sugars to avoid atherosclerosis/diabetes)

I believe that if you do go the 'eat anything' route whilst bulking you're going to gain more fat than if you ate 'cleaner'.

That is not what a 'clean' bulk is - a 'clean' bulk is eating 500-700 or so cals above maintenance, which maximises the ratio of muscle to fat gain in a bulk. A 'dirty' bulk is just shoving everything in your face and accepting that you will gain more quickly, but gain more fat. Neither has anything to do with supposed 'quality' of foodstuffs.

BeachGingerOnTheRocks

Do you have access to a barbell? You may want to change up your routine if you do. You're not going to see a lot of muscle gains with 13.5 kg. You need to be in a progressive loading program, and consider hypertrophy, to gain lean mass.

Protein powder is great to add calories and protein.

Muscle is very hard to gain under the best of circumstances. Really think about your workout first, then tweak your diet. All the protein in the world isn't going to add mass if you don't work the muscle.

Hornsby

Peanut Butter....eat it.

rocketfish74

what are your stats for you to maintain on 1700? seem sfairly low?

also, if you get decent peanut butter that is basically just peanut, its 'clean' and loads of cals!

5"4 high, 110lbs.
Awww I would but I can't eat nuts due to an allergy

how much are you lifting?

if you are running three times a week you are going to have a hard time adding muscle..

Remember there is no "crap food" there is just food that your body uses for energy. If you are having a hard time getting to your target then add in some ice cream …230 calories per serving ….

At the moment I'm lifting 13kg (6.5 per dumbbell), and I find I drop from 12 to 10 on a few of the last sets of 3 (especially on the tricep dumbbell kickback, I may have to use lighter weights for that one, I can do it with a 5kg dumbbell). I don't think I'd be able to go above 13kg at the moment as my reps would drop below 10, right now I push myself to achieve 10-12 on the last set. Does this sound right?

Bought some powdered whey protein today, gonna chuck it in my porridge etc to try to bump up the calorie and protein intake (especially since I'm a student, so I can't buy meat other than chicken that often, which I get fed up of!).

And I'm glad to see ice cream is ok XD It makes sense I guess (other than the calorie part), as it's made from dairy products (unless it's the cheaper vegetable oil one) - so calcium and protein, huzzah.

I went from 72kg to 82kg in 3 months chugging mass gainer shakes on top of my regular meals. The mass gainers had 800-900 calories + 60g protien per shake. Read the labels. Some mass gainers are low cal with high protein. I drank once a day after work outs.

For workouts, the tried and true method of mass building is go heavy with low reps. If you can do 10 reps per set then it's too light. Up your weight so you can manage 3-5 reps x 3 sets. The exercises you should concentrate on is deadlifts, squats, clean and press, pull ups/chin ups (with weights for advanced), push ups (many variations - clap, medicine ball, dive bomber), lastly bench press or dumbell flys if you're looking for aesthetics. I personally don't bother with bench as it has very little to do with functional strength.

Having said that, if you are new to a certain exercise, do not go heavy. Push enough weight to comfortably do 10 reps, then work yourself up to heavy after a couple weeks once your muscles get accustomed to the stress.

These are good whether you're male or female. Don't bother with isolation exercises like bicep/tricep curls. Stick with compound exercises that work multiple muscle groups for overall strength and conditioning. Basically everything I listed above minus bench. Always maintain proper form to avoid injury. If you're too fatigued to maintain form then STOP and move on to another exercise. You can finish the set later. Good luck and train safe.

Clean and Press: http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/clean-and-press
Deadlift: http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/barbell-deadlift
Squats: http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/barbell-squat
Pull ups: You know this but do full range of motion - all the way up, all the way down.
Push ups: google clap, dive bomber (Hindu), medicine ball, incline/decline, jillion others...
Lunges: at home if you don't have weights - Google lunges, side lunges, reverse lunges.

Edit: I stopped drinking the calorie shakes after my goal weight. Now I fluctuate 2kg - 4kg below 82kg (2 years since) but have not seen a loss of functional strength. 300lbs (136kg) deadlift 3x3 is not a problem. I workout to maintain and have not looked to increase my maximals. My diet now is relatively clean with very little junk food and low on simple carbs.

MassBuilderPro

Try not to worry so much about eating "clean". focus on eating foods you enjoy and that are Natural.. from the land. Eggs Milk Fruits Veggies Grains Legumes Meats, anything really as long as its not processed or junk food.

HMVOL7409

So is it ok to eat more 'crappy' deemed food (ie muffins, etc) as long as you get the calories and protein in? (without going overboard on the fats/sugars to avoid atherosclerosis/diabetes)

I believe that if you do go the 'eat anything' route whilst bulking you're going to gain more fat than if you ate 'cleaner'.

No. The amount of ones surplus will determine how much fat they will gain; not the quality of calories.

Do you have access to a barbell? You may want to change up your routine if you do. You're not going to see a lot of muscle gains with 13.5 kg. You need to be in a progressive loading program, and consider hypertrophy, to gain lean mass.

Protein powder is great to add calories and protein.

Muscle is very hard to gain under the best of circumstances. Really think about your workout first, then tweak your diet. All the protein in the world isn't going to add mass if you don't work the muscle.

Good question here; you can eat all you want but what is your lifting program like?

goredguar

Do you have access to a barbell? You may want to change up your routine if you do. You're not going to see a lot of muscle gains with 13.5 kg. You need to be in a progressive loading program, and consider hypertrophy, to gain lean mass.

Protein powder is great to add calories and protein.

Muscle is very hard to gain under the best of circumstances. Really think about your workout first, then tweak your diet. All the protein in the world isn't going to add mass if you don't work the muscle.

I have virtually no muscle on me due to my past ED (apart from my legs due to running), and my arm muscles are killing me right now - I will try to up the weight again soon though! I have 20kg max on my dumbbells available right now.

Peanut Butter....eat it.

Allergic to nuts.

Good question here; you can eat all you want but what is your lifting program like?

I'm using a book (not sure how 'good' it's deemed, but it has helpful step-by-step walkthroughs for each exercise) called "The Body Sculpting Bible for Women" by J Villepigue and H Rivera.

The workouts change every 2 weeks, with 3 different workouts a week. For example, this week it's telling me to do:

(Keeping in mind this is their beginner end routine, designed for someone who only has access to dumbbells, there's some more 'aggressive / advanced' ones there too, plus routines using gym equipment I don't have)

Reps is 12-15 with lighter weights for first couple of weeks until muscles used to movements, then 10-12, then 6-8 once base strength/movement better. 3 sets per exercise, and they're grouped into compound exercises, so I do 1 set and move onto the next exercise immediately in that pair, then rest for 1 min, repeat that pair, rest again, repeat, rest and move onto the next pair (so each day has 4 pairs of compound exercises).

Day 01
Dumbbell one-arm row
Pushup
Dumbbell shoulder press
Standing calf raise (one leg)
Dumbbell curl
Overhead Dumbbell Extension
Stiff-legged deadlift

Rest (I do cardio on 3 of my rest days, apart from 1 rest day where I do no exercise)

Day 03
Dumbbell Squat
Dumbbell Lunge
Ballet Squat
Stiff-Legged Deadlift
Standing Calf Raise (one leg)
Upright Row
Standing calf raise (two legs)
Triceps kickback

Rest

Day 04
Two-arm row
Flat Dumbbell fly
Bent over lateral-raise on incline bench
Standing calf raise (two legs)
Hammer curl
Lying dumbbell extension
Ballet Squat
Dumbbell Lunge

Rest
Rest

Also, on cardio days it asks me to do 2-4 out of these:
Lying Leg Raise
Crunch
Curl and Crunch
Bicycle
Knee-In
V-Up


Any good or should I invest in another book?

SleeplessinBerlin

almond butter? sunflower seed butter?

rocketfish74

There's a difference between sculpting and gaining mass/weight. Sculpting is about gaining muscle definition and toning up. You won't gain much mass doing light weight, high reps which is what your current routine is. Read what I posted earlier. It works.

Alternatively, eat more simple carbs. It's easily digestible and you burn through it quickly to get hungry again. Whatever you're regular meals are now, just add a slice of bread or pastry per meal. A slice of bread is 66 calories. 3 a day = 198 calories x 7 days = 1386 calories a week = 5544 calories a month = .72 kg weight gained per month.

In theory, in 6 months you'll add 4.32 kg just by eating 3 extra bread slices a day.

SouthernMommy11

There are alternatives to peanut butter! Sunflower, almond, etc. Eggs are great too! If you are looking for a muscle supplement I'm talking to my trainer in the morning about the best ones so feel free to message me and add me and I can tell you what they say!

rocketfish74

Not everything you listed are compound exercises. Some of them are pointless, excessive or similar to existing exercises on same days. I'd get rid of some of them. See the ones with XX. It's up to you if you want to do cardio on rest days. However if you're sore then it's best to rest. Without rest you will not see any gains. Soreness = muscle fiber damage which requires rest and food to repair. If you don't get enough food and rest, you may experience muscle loss instead of gains. Over training is also a leading cause of injury.

Here's my recommendation. Remember to keep proper form to avoid injury.

Day 01
Dumbbell one-arm row
Pushup
Dumbbell shoulder press
Standing calf raise (one leg)
XX Dumbbell curl
XX Overhead Dumbbell Extension
Stiff-legged deadlift <-- switch to regular deadlift, works more muscle groups and less chance of lower back injury

Rest

Day 03
Dumbbell Squat <-- do this or ballet squat, not both
XX Dumbbell Lunge <-- deadlifts work similar muscle groups
Ballet Squat <-- do this or dumbbell squat, not both
Stiff-Legged Deadlift <-- switch to regular deadlift, works more muscle groups and less chance of lower back injury
Standing Calf Raise (one leg)
Upright Row
XX Standing calf raise (two legs)
XX Triceps kickback

Rest

Day 04
XX Two-arm row
Flat Dumbbell fly
Bent over lateral-raise on incline bench <--do this instead of two arm row
Standing calf raise (two legs)
Hammer curl <-- combine with overhead press
XX Lying dumbbell extension
Ballet Squat <-- do this or dumbbell lunge, not both
Dumbbell Lunge <-- do this or ballet squat, not both

Rest
Rest

Kestrelwings

Are you allergic to coconut as well? If not, coconut oil may help. Other options include adding cheese & butter to meals, for example having your carbs as mashed potato - made with butter, full fat milk and cheese - instead of rice or pasta.

JoRocka

how much are you lifting?

if you are running three times a week you are going to have a hard time adding muscle..

Remember there is no "crap food" there is just food that your body uses for energy. If you are having a hard time getting to your target then add in some ice cream …230 calories per serving ….

this.

eat whatever you can- drink your calories. whatever it takes.

No food is off limits- hit your protein- hit your carbs (milk is genius for this) and go to town.

mikeabboud

V-Up


Any good or should I invest in another book?

try this one http://www.weightrainer.net/training/beginners.html
its actual good for any lifter first time or advanced. Check out the articles its all for natural weightlifters and why the full body is the way to go for us.