Can someone help me please?

kapoorvilla

Hello

I began my journey in 2006 @ 386lbs. I have lost 172 lbs throught mostly diet with inconsistent spruts of excercise consisting of mostly walking and small amounts of strength training on the line of life fitness machines at the local Y ( they have 12 machines set up to give the whole body a work out) . I lost the first 100 pre gastric sleeve and have been disappointed 13 months after the sleeve I am still over 200.

In the last few days of October I reentered the gym. I want to get under that 200 mark and it just seems like I am going to have ti fight for it! October thru December I built myself up to doing more than I have ever been able to do before and consistently going six days a week.

I have a slower than average metabolism according to my Bariatric center so I am keep my calories around 1200 and have found raising them means I gain :-( ! Please keep in mind that 1200 for a gastric sleeve patient is not unusual. I have been able to hold myself down to that the last few weeks. I was gaining over the holidays from too many calories.


Here is what I have worked up to and held at since end of December. I would like to know how this ranks with others work out as I have no one I can really compare to here.

5 days A week I do:
5 sets of 24 reps on machines
2000 meters on indoor rower (14 min)
3 Miles Pro bike crosstrainer (15 mins)
30 min elliptical

1 day a week I do: (I walk a lot at work this day step meter says 3 miles so I have to cut my time short. I only work this job one day a week)
3 sets of 24 reps
2000 meters on indoor rower (14 min)
3 Miles Pro bike crosstrainer (15 mins)
30 min elliptical

The machines I do the sets of 24 reps on:
Triceps extension 40lb
Lat pull down 70lbs
Shoulder Press 25lbs
Chess Press 50lbs
Vertical Row 70lbs
Bicep curls 40lbs

Leg Press 85lbs
Leg extension 40lbs
Leg curl 70lbs
Abductor (inner thigh) 70 lbs
Adductor (outer thigh) 80lbs ( I actually do 5 reps of 36 on this machine instead of the 24 reps I do on all the others)
Rotary Torso 40lbs (this gets double the sets because I work each side)

I also do on all 6 days Ab Cruncher 80 lbs 21 sets of 12 broke up through out the work out.

The work out takes me 3 hours to complete but I am feeling stronger. I wonder is this going to burn fat? Is it the best mix of cardio and strength training? The calculators say I am burning 900 calories doing this, could that be true? I think It would definitely be lower due to having a slower metabolism anyway.

I have been a size 18 pants for six months and I think I am finally starting to move toward 16 pants although still a way to go. I hate the scale, but yes it too has started to inch down. Just wanting to hear other opinions ( other than eat more calories because that will not work for me it has been tested and proven I eat/ I gain)

chrisrc131

I have lost 172 lbs throught mostly diet

Congratulations! You've made an amazing start. And weight loss is going to continue being a balance between the calories you eat vs the calories you burn. Any exercise is going to burn some, even breathing. To that end, your current plan is no doubt helping. You ask how your program "ranks with others work out", but that's really not the point. The question I have looking at your program is, is this the most efficient and effective way to meet your goals.

Do you really enjoy the machines? You could get more done in less time using free weights. You'll hear that advice all over this and most forums. That switch would be my main suggestion. Ditch the 12 machines and do a program that focuses on the six big compound lifts. You'll be working every single muscle your current program works in a more functional, efficient way. I like Starting Strength because it's so dead simple and pretty quick to start. Stronglifts is similar and also good and gets a lot of traction here (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/4618-stronglifts-5x5-for-women). The New Rules for Lifting program/book has fans too and it takes the same fundamental approach, though the programming strikes me as a lot to take in for a beginner.

I realize that's a big change though. If you really don't feel ready to make it yet, I still have some suggestions for improving your current program:

Do not do the same lifts every day. Your muscles need time to heal and grow. They do not grow in the gym, they grow when recovering from what you made them do in the gym. Any of the free weight programs I mentioned above have rest days between lifts. Programs that have you lifting 5 days a week do not have you working the same muscles on consecutive days. You could ether split your program into upper body days and lower body days before your cardio or spilt it so that you do the machines one day and cardio the next rather than both every day.

You're doing a *lot* of reps. I don't think that's a bad thing when you're first starting out and still trying to understand what motion the exercise is trying to take your body through, but you need to start increasing the weight and reducing your reps. Doing 3-5 sets for which you can barely push out 5-10 reps is the range almost any beginning strength program will put you in.

If the order you listed those machines in is the order you do them in, I think you should switch up to do the most 'compound' movements first. Realistically, if you're doing the chest press as hard as you can, your triceps and shoulders should be seriously fatigued by the time you get to them. Doing it the other way around shortchanges the other muscles you work in the bigger motion. Similarly, the leg press is working some of the same muscles as the more isolated leg exercises. Get the most bang for your buck.

If I had to use your machines, I'd probably arrange them like this:
Leg Press
Chest Press
Leg curl
Row
Leg ext
Shoulder Press
Lat Pull-down
Abductor
Adductor
Tricep
Bicep
Rotary Torso (Even as machines go, I really don't like this one. But if you're going to do it...)
Why the completely different approach to the 'Ab Cruncher'? Is this a weighted lever machine or something else?

Is it the best mix of cardio and strength training?

There's no such thing. No Platonic ideal of a workout program. There are more and less efficient ways do to meet your goals and I'm suggesting ways that should improve what you're doing now, but it's always incremental change over doing nothing.

The calculators say I am burning 900 calories doing this, could that be true? I think It would definitely be lower due to having a slower metabolism anyway.

It's possible, but no one claims that's anything but an estimate. If you're still working with your Bariatric center I'd ask them about whether you burn less calories workout out than average or it's just a matter of a lower BMR or something.

( other than eat more calories because that will not work for me it has been tested and proven I eat/ I gain)

I understand that considering your starting point and your past experience this is a big issue for you. And I also understand that the surgery you had complicates the issue even further. But at some point you have to consider the balance between calories burned and calories eaten. I'm not going to advise you on this though. I hope there's some ongoing nutritional support from the practice you worked with the get the procedure.

tennisdude2004

I have lost 172 lbs throught mostly diet

Congratulations! You've made an amazing start. And weight loss is going to continue being a balance between the calories you eat vs the calories you burn. Any exercise is going to burn some, even breathing. To that end, your current plan is no doubt helping. You ask how your program "ranks with others work out", but that's really not the point. The question I have looking at your program is, is this the most efficient and effective way to meet your goals.

Do you really enjoy the machines? You could get more done in less time using free weights. You'll hear that advice all over this and most forums. That switch would be my main suggestion. Ditch the 12 machines and do a program that focuses on the six big compound lifts. You'll be working every single muscle your current program works in a more functional, efficient way. I like Starting Strength because it's so dead simple and pretty quick to start. Stronglifts is similar and also good and gets a lot of traction here (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/4618-stronglifts-5x5-for-women). The New Rules for Lifting program/book has fans too and it takes the same fundamental approach, though the programming strikes me as a lot to take in for a beginner.

I realize that's a big change though. If you really don't feel ready to make it yet, I still have some suggestions for improving your current program:

Do not do the same lifts every day. Your muscles need time to heal and grow. They do not grow in the gym, they grow when recovering from what you made them do in the gym. Any of the free weight programs I mentioned above have rest days between lifts. Programs that have you lifting 5 days a week do not have you working the same muscles on consecutive days. You could ether split your program into upper body days and lower body days before your cardio or spilt it so that you do the machines one day and cardio the next rather than both every day.

You're doing a *lot* of reps. I don't think that's a bad thing when you're first starting out and still trying to understand what motion the exercise is trying to take your body through, but you need to start increasing the weight and reducing your reps. Doing 3-5 sets for which you can barely push out 5-10 reps is the range almost any beginning strength program will put you in.

If the order you listed those machines in is the order you do them in, I think you should switch up to do the most 'compound' movements first. Realistically, if you're doing the chest press as hard as you can, your triceps and shoulders should be seriously fatigued by the time you get to them. Doing it the other way around shortchanges the other muscles you work in the bigger motion. Similarly, the leg press is working some of the same muscles as the more isolated leg exercises. Get the most bang for your buck.

If I had to use your machines, I'd probably arrange them like this:
Leg Press
Chest Press
Leg curl
Row
Leg ext
Shoulder Press
Lat Pull-down
Abductor
Adductor
Tricep
Bicep
Rotary Torso (Even as machines go, I really don't like this one. But if you're going to do it...)
Why the completely different approach to the 'Ab Cruncher'? Is this a weighted lever machine or something else?

Is it the best mix of cardio and strength training?

There's no such thing. No Platonic ideal of a workout program. There are more and less efficient ways do to meet your goals and I'm suggesting ways that should improve what you're doing now, but it's always incremental change over doing nothing.

The calculators say I am burning 900 calories doing this, could that be true? I think It would definitely be lower due to having a slower metabolism anyway.

It's possible, but no one claims that's anything but an estimate. If you're still working with your Bariatric center I'd ask them about whether you burn less calories workout out than average or it's just a matter of a lower BMR or something.

( other than eat more calories because that will not work for me it has been tested and proven I eat/ I gain)

I understand that considering your starting point and your past experience this is a big issue for you. And I also understand that the surgery you had complicates the issue even further. But at some point you have to consider the balance between calories burned and calories eaten. I'm not going to advise you on this though. I hope there's some ongoing nutritional support from the practice you worked with the get the procedure.

www.nerdfitness.com

Its fun, it's free and it works.

kapoorvilla

Thank you so much for your help it will take me some time to work through an wrap my brain around it but I will try. To address somethings you were wondering about:

Machines: I use them because they are what is hook up to the fitlinxx program at the Y and they give me a way to track progress. The free weight room at my Y is not environment I am going to enjoy working out in the way I do in the machine/cardio area. All of this is together in one area of the Y and to be honest it is just where I am comfortable. All the trainers and regulars know me and we encourage and support each other. I will study the free weight programs I have never done them and will be starting from scratch. The Ab crunch is totally different only because I felt huge problem area and I need to focus there. It is not in the line of machines and I just kept going to it after legs and after arms and then after every cardio interval. Did not really plan it to be so much it just kind of developed that way. I do really appreciate the order you suggested on the machines I was just doing them in order the hardest thing about that would be leg press followed by leg extinction I have to stop often during sets. Now that brings me to the amount of rep/ pounds lifted. I started off with higher weight and less reps. A guy who is really fit and built at the Y told me to make the switch to higher reps less weight to get leaner muscle and that low rep and high pound was for bulking muscle. What do you think of that?

As for ongoing support there are periodical blood test to be sure I am not suffering from vitamin/ mineral deficiency. I am good there. I ask the same question about my metabolism effecting exercise results at a visit, to which I got the reply that not exercising would certainly burn less. In other words they assumed because I asked I did not want to exercise. No real answer.

My thyroid has been tested several times and comes back on the low side of normal on the TSH (i think that what it is called) but not low enough that they prescribe any treatment. Nutrition wise it is crazy but at the support group they have plenty eating 800 -900 calories a day and no alarm is sounded. I really do not give the surgery a lot of credit for my success because I know that I can and have still eaten way too many calories if I do not measure and log carefully. I think it did more mental good than physical. It took a year to go through all the nutrition classes and testing to get to surgery. I learned a lot but the restriction is not what I thought it would be.

I will review the info you gave me and consider the free weights although I admit the free weight are at my Y does not appeal to me. I will put the order you suggested in to practice beginning tomorrow, I have already been today! BTW I did an hour on the elliptical so I know I am getting stronger, I could not have done that a few month ago.

erickirb

If you are doing the same machines everyday 5 days/week, that is not giving your muscles enough recovery time, and 24 reps/set is way too many. depending on your goals 3-12 reps should suffice, but be sure to use a weight where the last rep or 2 in each set is difficult to complete with good form.

so increase the weight you are lifting so you can't get more than 12 reps/set and don't workout the same muscle group on back to back days.

If you work a muscle group Monday, the earliest you should work it out again would be Wednesday.

kapoorvilla

Thanks Eric

I keep hearing from folks that I should not be doing the machines everyday, I have been doing them everyday 6 days a week for a couple of months. I have not suffered pain or injury I think because of the low weights on each machine. I one less set on one day because of time available factor, but other than that it is the same everyday. I fear it will be really hard to keep consistent with the on/ off days. I am just a kind all or nothing kind of person, if I know I need to do this everyday I can just go get it done.

So my question is if I continue to do them at low weights like I am now can I maintain what I have built without hurting it. I have visible built muscle (under lots of loose skin :-( ) My goal is not to build more muscle just keep what I have built and continue to build fat. I did a lot of reading that strength training combine with cardio is an effective fat burner. I could lower the strength training as I up the cardio, if that would work. Today's cardio got up to 1 1/2 hours and I did 4 sets of the machines listed. Is it possible to have a consistent work out I do daily and get results?

Another question: I go very early to gym. I have a serving of fruit going (I am thinking good carbs equal good energy) coming back I sip down a premier protein drink (30 grams protein) The rest of the day I eat lean protein and veggies. Does that diet match what I am trying to do in your opinion. The nutritionist is happy except she say to drink breakfast everyday is not good but there again I get stuck in a routine and I like it.

wilsoje74

Did I read right that your workout takes 3 hours??? That's a long time and to shorten it I would do less reps and more weight.

kapoorvilla

I do not plan to work out for three hours forever I am just working through a season of strengthening my body. In October I got on the elliptical and could not do 5 mins, today I did an hour. I am trying to determine a set routine I could daily. Perhaps I can do the same routine weights/cardio Monday Wednesday and Saturday. Then do a different cardio only routine on Tuesday and Thursday. But I am so afraid of doing less and loosing results!

chrisrc131

The free weight room at my Y is not environment I am going to enjoy working out in the way I do in the machine/cardio area.

That's why I'm not giving you a hard sell on free weights. I think they're the better way to go, but 'perfect is the enemy of good'. I hope you do find your way into the free weights area. After dealing with the anxiety of the change you might find you like it even more. But what you're doing is way better than chucking it all because you don't like the other option.

The Ab crunch is totally different only because I felt huge problem area and I need to focus there.

If what you mean by that is, you're doing the ab crunch because you want a smaller belly, understand that it just doesn't work that way. Spot reduction is a myth. Your whole body will lose fat as you lose weight and genetics, not which exercises you do, will determine where you lose it first or fastest.

hardest thing about that would be leg press followed by leg extinction I have to stop often during sets.

That makes sense. Both leg press and leg extension work your quads hard. The extension just isolates them while the press works other things as well. Even if your extension suffers, it's fine because you already got your quads worked hard on the press.

A guy who is really fit and built at the Y told me to make the switch to higher reps less weight to get leaner muscle and that low rep and high pound was for bulking muscle. What do you think of that?

He's probably a really nice guy and he's found a way that worked for him to get fit. But I don't think he's knows what he's talking about. There's a certain amount of conflicting research and (even moreso) opinion about ideal rep ranges, but the very high number of reps you're doing stresses the endurance of your muscles more than their strength. If you want to get stronger, you need to lift heavier weights for fewer reps.

'Bulking' is not something that happens accidentally for a man, and it's way more difficult for a woman. Just lifting heavier weights on these machines won't do it.

I ask the same question about my metabolism effecting exercise results at a visit, to which I got the reply that not exercising would certainly burn less. In other words they assumed because I asked I did not want to exercise. No real answer.

Ask them again. Ask for specific information about exercising. I suspect they're accustomed to a certain type of patient and they're going to give you the answers that patient would want unless you practically demand a different type.

I am trying to determine a set routine I could daily. Perhaps I can do the same routine weights/cardio Monday Wednesday and Saturday. Then do a different cardio only routine on Tuesday and Thursday. But I am so afraid of doing less and loosing results!

I think splitting it up like that would be a good idea. As a beginner you can get results doing darn near anything, but the more you work at it, the harder you work those muscles the more they need to recover. You shouldn't look at it as doing less, but doing it more efficiently. You might be cutting time, but in exchange you're upping intensity. Like the difference between walking a mile and running a mile. Which takes less time? Which is harder to do?

BTW I did an hour on the elliptical so I know I am getting stronger, I could not have done that a few month ago.

Excellent! There's nothing better than progress.

sfstegall

I do not plan to work out for three hours forever I am just working through a season of strengthening my body. In October I got on the elliptical and could not do 5 mins, today I did an hour. I am trying to determine a set routine I could daily. Perhaps I can do the same routine weights/cardio Monday Wednesday and Saturday. Then do a different cardio only routine on Tuesday and Thursday. But I am so afraid of doing less and loosing results!

As I'm sure you know, there are two kinds of exercise: aerobic/cardiovascular, and strength training. One kind benefits the other, so you need both, but not necessarily equally. Cardio burns calories, and you can do cardio exercises every day. If you walk or use a treadmill or otherwise get your cardio workout in every day, I seriously doubt you will gain weight unless you go over your calorie limit.

Strength training uses different muscles, so they must be treated differently. Basically, when you work a muscle to failure (which is the point of weight lifting, etc.), you force it to rebuild itself. In most people, it takes 24 hours for a muscle to rebuild itself, and when it does it is stronger. That's why you get the recommendation to wait at least one day between workouts for that muscle group; there's no point in stressing the muscle while it is rebuilding. However, not everyone rebuilds muscle in 24 hours. You state that you have a low metabolism and a low caloric intake. Either or both of these could mean that it takes longer for you to rebuild muscle.

A typical regime used to build strength is to exercise different muscle groups on different days. For example, do upper body work (arms, torso, shoulders, upper back) on one day, and then the next day work only the lower body (legs, thighs, abdomen). That means when you are doing the lower body workout, your upper body muscles get their 24 hours to recover. On the day you are doing upper body workouts, your lower body muscles are getting their chance to rebuild. Alternating workouts like this actually is better for you, and more effective in the long run, than exercising every muscle every day. Plus, it cuts the length of your workout in half!

Of course you can continue, as I said, to do your cardio workout every day. The muscle you are stressing in your cardio workout is your heart.

One last thought: you have lost half your body weight in a very short time. This is an amazing shock to your metabolism. It takes the body quite a while longer than we would like for it to "reset" to the lower metabolic rate. Cut yourself some slack, and let your body take its time to adjust. I congratulate you on your weight loss and your determination to continue exercising and choosing a healthy lifestyle. I wish you all the best!

kapoorvilla

I do not plan to work out for three hours forever I am just working through a season of strengthening my body. In October I got on the elliptical and could not do 5 mins, today I did an hour. I am trying to determine a set routine I could daily. Perhaps I can do the same routine weights/cardio Monday Wednesday and Saturday. Then do a different cardio only routine on Tuesday and Thursday. But I am so afraid of doing less and loosing results!

As I'm sure you know, there are two kinds of exercise: aerobic/cardiovascular, and strength training. One kind benefits the other, so you need both, but not necessarily equally. Cardio burns calories, and you can do cardio exercises every day. If you walk or use a treadmill or otherwise get your cardio workout in every day, I seriously doubt you will gain weight unless you go over your calorie limit.


Strength training uses different muscles, so they must be treated differently. Basically, when you work a muscle to failure (which is the point of weight lifting, etc.), you force it to rebuild itself. In most people, it takes 24 hours for a muscle to rebuild itself, and when it does it is stronger. That's why you get the recommendation to wait at least one day between workouts for that muscle group; there's no point in stressing the muscle while it is rebuilding. However, not everyone rebuilds muscle in 24 hours. You state that you have a low metabolism and a low caloric intake. Either or both of these could mean that it takes longer for you to rebuild muscle.

A typical regime used to build strength is to exercise different muscle groups on different days. For example, do upper body work (arms, torso, shoulders, upper back) on one day, and then the next day work only the lower body (legs, thighs, abdomen). That means when you are doing the lower body workout, your upper body muscles get their 24 hours to recover. On the day you are doing upper body workouts, your lower body muscles are getting their chance to rebuild. Alternating workouts like this actually is better for you, and more effective in the long run, than exercising every muscle every day. Plus, it cuts the length of your workout in half!

Of course you can continue, as I said, to do your cardio workout every day. The muscle you are stressing in your cardio workout is your heart.

One last thought: you have lost half your body weight in a very short time. This is an amazing shock to your metabolism. It takes the body quite a while longer than we would like for it to "reset" to the lower metabolic rate. Cut yourself some slack, and let your body take its time to adjust. I congratulate you on your weight loss and your determination to continue exercising and choosing a healthy lifestyle. I wish you all the best!

Thank you so much! I like your idea of alternating upper and lower. That way I am still doing some lifting everyday. I started losing weight in 2006 so here I am eight years later, that seems like a long time but I guess compared to the 36 years it took to get to 386 it is not a long time. I think I am going to give your suggestion a try: cardio 6 days a week with alternating only working arms or legs each day. I will try to work up to double the weight and half the reps as many others have suggested. I do not think I am ready for the free weight room but maybe one day I will be.

shazbox1

Agreed on breaking up days into specific muscle groups. You will also probably find that you can work each of those groups harder on those days, as they have more time to recover.

lanetteclaypool1989

Just starting my 6 month bariatric journey need some supporters