Bingeing or intuitive eating?

Pintado

I would love help or advice from anyone who's trying to quit dieting and eat like a normal healthy person.

I've always been chubby rather than fat, and maybe because of this I've struggled with restrictive dieting/binge-eating since I was a teenager. I joined MFP just before Christmas and was able to lose 10lb over a couple of months by exercising most days (which I enjoy) and cutting back on junk food, although I still found myself bingeing 1-2 times a week during this time. I'm 29F, 5'6", 144lb.

Then I discovered TDEE and realised that my bingeing was tied in with restrictive-eating, and I needed to learn to listen to my satiety signals. I quit dieting and tried to start listening to my body – aiming at maintenance mode with the hope that my weight might settle at a slightly lower number (though I'm happy here if it doesn't).

I'm now focused on getting enough fuel and protein in my diet to help build lean muscle, but even though I'm trying to be relaxed about what I eat, I often end up overeating by a lot. I'm aiming at 1700-2000 calories per day, but most days I overshoot even this – sometimes it's just normal overeating (2300-3000), but at least once a week it's in gross territory (3000-4000). I rarely come in at 1800 or lower.

I don't know what to do. I've read Brain Over Binge by Kathryn Hansen twice now, and found it immensely helpful in distancing myself from the cravings to eat – but because I'm trying to listen to my body, I often can't tell if I'm really hungry and need to eat, or if my binge habit is kicking in. Maybe it's both.

Anyway – any advice or shared experiences would help me a lot. I think none of this is helped by how obsessed I am about food at the moment – always looking up recipes and thinking about what I'm going to make next. FWIW, I do eat a pretty healthy and balanced diet, but what distorts my calorie intake are these frequent binges where I consume huge amounts of nutrient-dense sweet things (peanut butter, honey, cheese – fine in moderation but not in these quantities).

I feel like I'm always hungry, though my exercise is pretty consistently moderate – I get up early during weekdays to do a 20-25 minute Jillian Michaels DVD, and go for a run (5-10K) at least once on the weekend. Hardly overdoing it there.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks, MFP pals!

Schtroumpfkin

I don't really understand one of your points. You say you discovered TDEE which showed you were eating too little. That's fine. But then you decided to use that as a reason to "listen to your body". It sounds like you're not ready to listen to your body. Why didn't you just up your calorie target on MFP and keep tracking? It sounds like you still need to do that.

Pintado

I have upped my calorie target and I'm still tracking every day, which is how I know that I'm routinely overshooting my calories.

beachlover317

Intuitive eating does not work for some people. I'm one of them. For years I have "listened" to what my body wanted and guess what? I gained a lot of weight because my body is screwed up from all the restrictive dieting I have done in the past too. Restrictive dieting can mess up the hormones in our bodies that signal hunger and satiety.

If you have your TDEE, eat at a deficit to that number. 15 - 20 % unless you are obese. Concentrate on hitting your macros. Weigh and measure everything and log it. You will retrain your brain to know what you body needs. It takes some time.

chelso0o

Therapy is helping me learn how to treat food as "just food". I've found that I was giving food too much importance in my life, even to the effect of attending a social gathering and not being able to concentrate on interactions becausei was concentrating more on "am I going to look like a pig if I eat this?" "This looks good, I want to try it." Instead of "I haven't seen so-and-so for awhile, I should see how they are."

I also needed to work through my panicked feelings I would get if I "thought" I was hungry. Most often I was experiencing an emotion that was too uncomfortable for me, and so I ate instead of feeling it because it is easier to focus on the food.


Intuitive eating works for some, but if you are always used to eating 1000+ calories per meal, your barometer needs to be recalibrated. I have found that calorie counting is helping me to recalibrate.

SLLRunner

Listening to our body with regards to food is how many of us, including me, gained weight in the first place. Our body tells us eat more, eat more, and we listen, and we do eat more. This is not good for me.

I will never be that person who can just eat as much as I want, when I want, and not gain weight. In other words, I will never be that "normal" person, and it's okay with me. I have to stay conscious of what I put in my mouth and track my calories. I will not gain this weight back.

This does not mean I don't go over my calorie goals sometimes, but it is rare for me to go over my calories for a week. I reached my goal just after Christmas and have been trying to maintain, but I have lost five pounds since then. No, it's not a natural weight fluctuation because my weight only went down, not up and then down and then up and then down again by a pound or two. Thus, this weekend I intentionally upped my calories above what I would eat on weekends when I don't work out because I need to find out what my maintenance is. I have not found it. This is the first week in months that I have actually exceeded my weekly calorie goal, but it indeed is intentional. That's okay too.

The difference between when I was yo-yo dieting and now is that I understand food is for fuel only. I eat to live not live to eat like I used to. I don't starve myself anymore (not as in "starvation mode" but literally depriving myself of calories in order to lose weight) and I don't stuff myself to the gills anymore, but I do still eat a little too much at times. I sometimes eat badly too, like today, but it's the first time in months.

How is overeating working for you? Are you gaining weight? Maintaining? Losing? Your results should tell you what your next move is.

The only thing I can advise you to do is pre-log your food and then eat only that food to make sure you don't exceed your calorie goals, whatever they turn out to be.

ModQuad

Agreed with the above. Without information about whether you are maintaining, gaining, or continuing to lose, means it's hard to tell what's going on. It's clear that emotionally/psychologically there's some distress over this situation, but whether it's actually effecting your physical fitness is anyone's guess. You posted this in the Maintaining forum, so maybe it's fine?

I'm trying to be more intuitive about my eating but I don't trust myself. I don't want to log forever, so I'm trying to pay attention to my hunger and eat at irregular intervals not just "meal time" while still tracking every calorie. I usually net perfectly or come under, but yesterday I totally "binged" and sounds like I'm similar to you in that I sometimes go way over my calories with "healthy" foods that just happen to be calorically dense.

Yesterday I was insatiable, and while I normally would just drink a bunch of water to hold off the cravings, I decided to give in and eat a bunch of cheese, bread, and a large whole fat milk latte. I felt horrible about myself but actually ended up having a TON of energy in the evening so I went to the gym. In retrospect, I might have burned more calories the day BEFORE than I assumed I had. I played basketball all day, which is atypical of me, so I didn't know how many calories I burned so I just didn't log them. So even though I felt like I was binging, I was probably making up for that deficit.

arrseegee

I think intuitive eating combined with calorie tracking is a good idea for you. I don't have any experience with it myself but used to work with a woman who did a lot of research on the area, and there are some good resources online if you look up "Mindful Eating". That term is used interchangeably with intuitive eating.

Kenazwa

"Intuitive eating"? As a species, I think we're programmed to load up on food when it's available because it may not be available tomorrow. It's been a very long time since I've needed my fat stores to get through a famine, but something inside of me wants to make sure I'll be ready for the next one.

casy84

I came to accept the fact that I must watch what I eat for as long as I want to maintain my weight. Considering I don't want to lose any more weight I try to be good during the week and indulge on weekends.
This has been working pretty good for the past few months. I just keep gaining and losing the same ~2 pounds. I won't trust my intuition any time soon because I still binge on sweets from time to time.

chani8

IE doesn't work for me. Check out the No S Diet for a normal (free) eating plan (nosdiet.com). It works best combined with MFP calorie counting, but it promotes no need to calorie count.

msf74

I don't know what to do. I've read Brain Over Binge by Kathryn Hansen twice now, and found it immensely helpful in distancing myself from the cravings to eat – but because I'm trying to listen to my body, I often can't tell if I'm really hungry and need to eat, or if my binge habit is kicking in. Maybe it's both.

Firstly, sincerely well done. That is really great so give yourself a big pat on the back.

Secondly, you can't really know if you have conditioned yourself to eat a certain way over time which has over ridden your natural hunger cues. It's guesswork much of the time.

My suggestion would be to use the methods you have put in place to combat your binging in conjunction with tracking your intake for a while until you have firmly ingrained good habits when it comes to portion size, meal composition and eating enough to keep your body at a happy and healthy place.

Then after a while transition over to full blown "intuitive" eating (which doesn't have to mean simply eating when you are hungry but rather eating meals at appropriate intervals which are neither too big and also fulfill your nutritional requirements - mindful eating as some wise poster stated before me. )

WendyTerry420

You can't eat intuitively until you retrain your body. You have to have solid discipline for a long time before you can trust your body's queues.

levitateme

I once binged on nearly half a container of Carnation Malted milk mix (with a spoon) and I was not restricting or dieting at the time. What was my body trying to tell me then?

In all seriousness, binge eating is a compulsive mental condition. Your body doesn't need to binge and if you are truly binging (eating upwards of 1000 cals in a short period of time while feeling out of control), it's not because you are "eating intuitively" it's because stress, restriction, your own brain, etc., is driving you to do it.

Sometimes I binge because I justify that it's okay to do it RIGHT NOW because TOTALLY STUPID REASONS THAT ONLY MAKE SENSE TO ME.

It's a hard road, but it's not impossible to get it (mostly) under control, or at least manageable.

lindustum

Intuitive eating does not work for some people.

I would refrain from using statements such as these. It simply takes practice if you are not one of those who seem to have no problem with it. I switched to maintenance last November, and started not logging for a day or two. I gradually increased the days of not logging, sometimes simply logging one day a week just to see where my estimations where at. I didn't log for over a month during Christmas, didn't gain. I log when I feel unsure about my intuition.

Don't condemn yourself to "can" or "cannot". If you have always been chubby (as have I) it's normal you don't trust your eating habits. You never listened to your body, so you need to learn to read its signals. It takes time. MFP is a great tool for that.

However if you still want to lose weight, I would log for the sake of simplicity.

MelissaPhippsFeagins

Intuitive eating does not work for some people. I'm one of them. For years I have "listened" to what my body wanted and guess what? I gained a lot of weight because my body is screwed up from all the restrictive dieting I have done in the past too. Restrictive dieting can mess up the hormones in our bodies that signal hunger and satiety.

If you have your TDEE, eat at a deficit to that number. 15 - 20 % unless you are obese. Concentrate on hitting your macros. Weigh and measure everything and log it. You will retrain your brain to know what you body needs. It takes some time.

This. Except you say you could maintain at 144 so you should be eating your TDEE.

Things that help me not binge: a glass of water - people often mistake thirst for hunger; a walk around the block - exercise relieves the stress that so often triggers my binges; doing something that requires both hands - matching socks is something I hate so I save it to save myself from late night eating. I can't eat and keep the socks clean. And turn off the TV! Food commercials are the last thing I need to see after dinner.

licorice_tea

Just because I hadn't seen it specifically mentioned, binging with insatiable hunger is a side effect of going back to normal eating after long term starvation, and can continue for several months but will eventually even itself out. If you've only recently started eating enough calories, it may just be a waiting game.

Malteaster

I have tried intuitive eating a couple of times but just can't get past the initial eat whatever you want stage as left to it's own devices my body would be telling me to eat constantly.

Two good books I have read are by Josie Spinardi who also encourages you to take account of how you feel after eating certain foods, and 'Ditching Diets' by Gillian Riley which accepts that intuitive eating is not for everyone and suggests certain boundaries. These boundaries include planning meals, and leaving time between eating.

WendyTerry420

I have tried intuitive eating a couple of times but just can't get past the initial eat whatever you want stage as left to it's own devices my body would be telling me to eat constantly.

Two good books I have read are by Josie Spinardi who also encourages you to take account of how you feel after eating certain foods, and 'Ditching Diets' by Gillian Riley which accepts that intuitive eating is not for everyone and suggests certain boundaries. These boundaries include planning meals, and leaving time between eating.

That sounds like it's your brain, not the normal body process. Self-discipline is a skill, not a genetic trait.

RaspberryKeytoneBoondoggle

I find that keeping track of what I eat and making sure I don't eat more than I need (using my TDEE) has created good habits. So, for example, after two years of this, on days when I don't track I am in the habit of eating less. There are exceptions, however, such as that time of the month, when I'm feeling sad, when I order too much food at the all-you-can-eat sushi bar, and nearly always when there is a bag of potato chips around. If my weight creeps up I always go back to keeping track. Although I have good instincts and signals for fullness most of the time, I still back-slide from time to time.

Sunbrooke

I eat intuitively. I mostly eat fairly plain whole foods, but f I want something like pizza, I have it. I have one to tree slices. I dont care if i eat three if I'm hungry for three. If I'm not still hungry after one, I stop. I can do this because I know I can have pizza the next time I want it. I don't have to hoard.

Saying that, I also don't put trigger foods in my face constantly. It has to be a conscious decision for me to have something like fries or Salty Chinese food. I don't bring "treat" foods (I don't really think of it that way tho) home from the store. There are no chips, mayo, pasta, salty crackers, or cheese in my house. I don't feel deprived. A lot of it is budget too. I want lots of frozen berries, fish, avocados, fresh fruits and veggies, so I have cut out the things I perceive as less healthy for me to make room in my budget and belly

In general, I think of my daily diet as fuel and going out, or bring something home as a something else. Like a celebration or something.

The biggest hurdle for me has been wanting to cook my favorite dishes that I knew up eating, like enchiladas, taquitos, tamales (so cheap and you are freeze them!). I only make this stuff as an occasion, not daily stuff. Budget is hard too. I'm a cheap skate, so I get temped by great coupons and bargain for stuff I don't need. I give the coupons don't use away, so that I feel I'm not wasting.

Also, growing up, my mom didn't make us eat balanced meals. She is a grazer, so she understood that my sister and I eat that way too. We ate a variety of foods, just not at once. This makes me think that if I really want a few meat balls, I don't have to have a salad, and a bowl of pasta too. I think this makes me feel more satisfied easier. If I feel I've had enough meatballs for what is healthy, and I want more to eat, then I will go have something else. Mostly to make sure I get the other nutrients I want to consume.

Hope that helps. This didn't happen for me overnight and I continue to make adjustments. I'm certainly not perfect. I'm glad you are trying to find what will work for you as an individual.

Dugleik

I don't know where you live, but you should see if there is a...um...low-threshold eating disorder clinic where you live?

lauren3101

Out of curiosity, have you gained weight during this period of over-eating?

Pintado

Therapy is helping me learn how to treat food as "just food". I've found that I was giving food too much importance in my life, even to the effect of attending a social gathering and not being able to concentrate on interactions becausei was concentrating more on "am I going to look like a pig if I eat this?" "This looks good, I want to try it." Instead of "I haven't seen so-and-so for awhile, I should see how they are."

Oh dear, this is so me. Thanks for this advice – I routinely give food way too much prominence during my day, especially when I'm bored!

Two good books I have read are by Josie Spinardi who also encourages you to take account of how you feel after eating certain foods, and 'Ditching Diets' by Gillian Riley which accepts that intuitive eating is not for everyone and suggests certain boundaries. These boundaries include planning meals, and leaving time between eating.

Thanks for this recommendation – Ditching Diets in particular looks to be exactly what I need.

Pintado

Out of curiosity, have you gained weight during this period of over-eating?

Not really – I've fluctuated within a range of about 2lb, which makes me think my TDEE is a bit higher than I'm allowing for. If I can manage to break this habit of binge eating, and eat normally for a few weeks, I might be able to see properly how much food I'm eating every day and whether I can maintain on this amount. Maybe a lot of this behaviour is self-sabotage, wanting to distort the maths so I can't help myself be normal!

april1445

I love the concept of intuitive eating, and I really hope to someday be healthy enough to apply it. For now, my intuition tells me to eat raw cookie dough, so it's not to be trusted. I really envy people who have a healthy relationship with food, but miy relationship is 40+ years of mixed messages, and diets, and starvation and binging--it would take a long time to reset that, to undo it, and I can't risk it right now--maybe someday.

Pintado

Hi everyone, OP here. I just wanted to say thank you for your thoughtful advice and input – it's really helped me to see that this part of the road is just part of maintenance and recovery from restrictive eating, so I should be patient and gentle with myself while I focus on creating good habits. Thank you, so much!

nextrightthing

for book titles....

CoffeeNBooze

What has helped me with intuitively eating is to eat slowly, and consciously enjoy my food instead of just shoveling food in. I have been trying my best lately to eat everything like a gourmet, slow and just to enjoy it. In my opinion that's how we should treat food anyway. It's wonderful! Intuitive eating is what works for me in the long term, but I am not perfect and of course slip up. If you want to know more or want some support drop me a message or add me as a friend!

cwolfman13

I've been maintaining for around 9 months or so without logging and haven't had any issues. That said, I took a good 9 months or so while I was losing and made sure that not only was I logging, but I was also retraining myself on how to eat for my nutrition as well as energy needs, and what that looked like day to day with various foods, eating out, dinner parties, etc. It doesn't sound like you're there yet to me.

Also, I think your TDEE may be higher than you're giving credit for if you're doing these things and maintaining. I can eat around 3,000 calories plus on certain days, and it's not binging...it's just properly fueling my body and activity. A big part of this is fully understanding your body's energy (calorie) needs.

maybyn

You CANNOT eat intuitively UNTIL you have successfully solved your binge eating problem.

It's a two stage process and you have not completed stage 1 yet - curing your binge eating.

Once you get past that, then yes, you can listen to your body. It can be done as I've been where you are.