Bulking Psychology - Weight Fluctuations

Fithealthyforlife

I've been back at bulking for at least 3 weeks now, and am doing a great lifting program. When I weighed in once about a month ago, my weight was right where I had left off after neglecting food logging and workouts for a month or more. I was like, "Great! I'll just add another 25-50 more calories to my previous surplus level where I was in the past, and work from there. I had left off with a 350-cal surplus. So I started logging again about 3 weeks ago, slowly ramped up intake over a week from a 200 to 400-cal surplus because I was not used it. Started a great lifting program a week ago...I'm seeing muscles popping out everywhere, etc. A lot of visual progress, clothes are tighter around the shoulders, etc (though measurements are essentially the same). Even seeing a little tiny bit of fat gain at the waist, meaning I'm getting enough calories.

Then I decided to finally get on the scale this morning, and boom...I'm 2.5 lbs lower than the last time I weighed in 3-4 weeks ago!
I haven't weighed in this low since September! I was dry in the mouth and throat, so maybe dehydration had something to do with it. I also had eaten less carbs than usual (and more fat) the night before. But I can't help but be a bit frustrated...now I have to weigh in every morning for a whole week to see the small-scale trends over time...and that voice in my head is telling me, "You've wasted a week!"

Now, having been through this before, what usually happens, is the following week there is like a 2-lb gain or something outrageous like that.

Just a reminder that weight gain and loss is nonlinear.

Fithealthyforlife

Weighed in again this morning...I'm another half pound down despite looking/feeling (not just to me but others, too) like I have more muscle and body fat has not increased either. I guess I've been recomping for the past 4 weeks rather than bulking.

Going to add another 100 calories starting today (to make 500-cal surplus), and start getting another hour or two of sleep.

Part of this bulking psychology is also knowing when not to just wait things out and keep doing the same thing you've been doing.

chani8

And remember that when you activate your muscles, which you seem to be doing on your new weight lifting program, then you burn more calories, which means you need to adjust your TDEE/caloric intake for that (regularly). When I workout, I don't necessarily burn a lot of calories, because it's not cardio, but the more I workout, the more calories I seem to need because my muscles are hungry.

IOW, you need to set a weekly upping of your calories.

Fithealthyforlife

And remember that when you activate your muscles, which you seem to be doing on your new weight lifting program, then you burn more calories, which means you need to adjust your TDEE/caloric intake for that (regularly). When I workout, I don't necessarily burn a lot of calories, because it's not cardio, but the more I workout, the more calories I seem to need because my muscles are hungry.

IOW, you need to set a weekly upping of your calories.

I'm not new to this. I've been working out and bulking on-and-off for 6 months. Back in the late sumemr/early fall, I gained 7 lbs at a rate between 0.5 and 1 lb per week with less calories than I'm eating now (and apparently losing/recomping on).

I just started a new lifting program though that is a bit more intense than what I was doing before. I have been using shorter rest intervals between sets, so my calorie burns are quoted as lower than on my previous program. This could be an issue. Additionally, my maintenance amount apparently decreased by 10 calories now that I'm almost a year older.

I'm using the MFP (NEAT) method rather than TDEE. To me it works best, b/c I engage in varied activities that burn different amounts of calories a day. So it's maintenance calories ("active" setting) + exercise calories estimated by MFP + my surplus.

Regarding upping calories every week, which I also have been thinking of doing: How much have most people here had to up calories for every 1 lb gained? I'm doing that part by trial and error. Is it like 25 cal per pound? I've heard that muscle can burn 12 calories per day per pound. They used to say 100-150, but I believe that is accepted as too high today.

JoRocka

I was weight 2x a day when I first started my bulk- I just wanted to see the flux up and down through the day.

There is no question it's non linear- I always make sure I give any calorie changes at least 3-4 weeks to settle in before making alterations.

Results come from the consistency and trend line- not form day to day manipulation.

Fithealthyforlife

I was weight 2x a day when I first started my bulk- I just wanted to see the flux up and down through the day.

There is no question it's non linear- I always make sure I give any calorie changes at least 3-4 weeks to settle in before making alterations.

Results come from the consistency and trend line- not form day to day manipulation.

Thanks.

I'm apparently 2.5 lbs down now, 2 days in a row. After 4 weeks and no gain (and maybe a small loss) I feel like upping the surplus by another 100 is a no brainer. In reality, it's probably going to amount to less than a 100-cal increase, for reasons already mentioned (exercise calorie burn limitations, etc.).

I will give it 2-2.5 weeks at the new level. I find that's the minimum amount of time I have to wait to see changes take effect, as a guy.

I am hoping it was not muscle I lost...but I don't see how it could have been since I have been eating a surplus, working out, eating over 20% daily protein, and look and feel more muscular compared to 2 weeks ago.

Personally, I only weigh in the morning. My reason is it's consistent and it's my true weight with no food or fluids added.

JoRocka

100 calories should be good.

I only wait 3- 4 weeks because I'm more cautious- seemed to be working for me- but 2-3 should be acceptable for sure.

I like doing both weigh in's just for data comparison- I don't compare AM to PM other than laugh at the difference- but I felt like it gave me some interesting numbers to fiddle with via excel. But it's definitely not necessary. I put more stock in the AM one for sure.

waldo56

Do you remember what it "felt" like to be in a surplus before?

I get hyper and fidgety and my body wants lots of sleep when in a surplus.

I can usually tell pretty good if my body is in a surplus or deficit based on how I feel, which is useful when I'm near where my maintenance should be.

For example this past taper, the first step was the lower end of where I thought maintenance was, my body felt like it was in a deficit throughout.

waldo56

Regarding upping calories every week, which I also have been thinking of doing: How much have most people here had to up calories for every 1 lb gained? I'm doing that part by trial and error. Is it like 25 cal per pound? I've heard that muscle can burn 12 calories per day per pound. They used to say 100-150, but I believe that is accepted as too high today.

That isn't a good way of looking at it.

Your metabolism will rise while you are in a surplus and fall when you are in a deficit, independent of the weight or muscle mass change.

If you just got done with a long, long cut, and are starting to bulk, expect your metabolism to rise rather dramatically over the course of your bulk. It is a gradual process, but it is very noticable; if you keep your cals constant your gain rate will slow down the longer you bulk, and it can be a huge effect, hundreds of calories, and it persists once your bulk is done (unless you spend a lot time cutting afterwards and have the opposite effect occur).

Morgaath

Shouldn't you record the time actually spent lifting, not the time lifting + resting?
This would mean (Time ended - time started) - (all rest time combined) = Time spent lifting [modified by logic, so if you spent 6 minutes waiting for the squat rack, or helping someone else, minus that]
This way changing rest time either way should not impact as much.

JoRocka

Shouldn't you record the time actually spent lifting, not the time lifting + resting?
This would mean (Time ended - time started) - (all rest time combined) = Time spent lifting [modified by logic, so if you spent 6 minutes waiting for the squat rack, or helping someone else, minus that]
This way changing rest time either way should not impact as much.

way to much work.

navyrigger46

Shouldn't you record the time actually spent lifting, not the time lifting + resting?
This would mean (Time ended - time started) - (all rest time combined) = Time spent lifting [modified by logic, so if you spent 6 minutes waiting for the squat rack, or helping someone else, minus that]
This way changing rest time either way should not impact as much.

way to much work.

Not to mention, if I spend 90 seconds doing a set of deadlifts, my heart rate stays elevated for several minutes. Rest between sets doesn't mean that your body returns to an essentially resting state, it just means you're taking a few to compose yourself for your next set.

Rigger

Fithealthyforlife

Waldo,

Thanks. I am adding 100 calories. Yesterday I ate 2960, which has been normal on a non-exercise day up until now. I will have to eat approx. 3700 total today, because I burned off 500 shoveling snow, and then my workout will be about another 150, plus the old surplus of 400 and the new additional 100.

Yeah, I feel like I'm in a surplus for sure...I have some extra energy and my body fees like it's "expanding". But other times I'm still extremely hungry (not every day though). I'm going through a period where I'm hyper-hyper...I'm kind of anxious because of the whole weight loss thing, so that's compounding the problem. I've also been staying up late, causing me to burn more calories. I need to relax again. But it won't really happen fully until I start gaining again. I'll try some post-workout meditation.

In the past I've also had days where I've exceeded my surplus due to hunger. I've eaten twice so far today, and almost 1300...and it feels like almost nothing due to the massive burn. I'll be ravenous again in about 3 hours...but I won't let it go that long today because I have so much more to get in.

waldo56

Shouldn't you record the time actually spent lifting, not the time lifting + resting?
This would mean (Time ended - time started) - (all rest time combined) = Time spent lifting [modified by logic, so if you spent 6 minutes waiting for the squat rack, or helping someone else, minus that]
This way changing rest time either way should not impact as much.

No, because recovery is part of the equation. If you only included time actually spend lifting, calorie burn rates would be upwards of 10,000-15,000 cal/hr+, but noone could ever do that because it is physically impossible to sustain even close to that output very long (noone could continuously do a set of heavy deadlifts at their 5RM for an hour).

Since the rate limiting factor is the intermuscular glucose transfer system and waste disposal system, as long as your set to set recovery rate is the max the body can sustain, whether you are waiting 30 sec between sets, 2:00 between sets, or 4:00 between sets doesn't matter, you are still burning the exact same amount of glucose in that time frame; the maximum rate that your body can recover. Increasing the set frequency will increase the aerobic contribution on top of the anaerobic contribution, but that contribution is relatively small due to the high efficiency of the aerobic system. With incomplete set to set recovery, power output is decreased due to insufficient locally available fuel, this fact is readily testable (both peak strength and volume potential decline with a lack of complete recovery).

Fithealthyforlife

And another fluctuation.

I'm up 2 lbs this morning due to all the food I ate yesterday to offset burns. I expect it to keep going up and down, and then start to rise a bit each week.