Eating too little? can't lose weight!!

Mr_Knight

Anybody who eats "too little" will lost weight. And fast.

Period, full stop.

jaylouisedavies

Here's something that you might want to read. Yes, I wrote it, but it links to some very good sources regarding clinical starvation and refeeding syndrome, and this seems to be information that people on this thread could really benefit from.

Feel free to add me if you need!

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Quasita/view/starvation-and-refeeding-syndrome-a-brief-look-with-sources-223672

Here is my original post discussing starvation:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Quasita/view/let-s-be-truly-honest-about-starvation-mode-199121

Thank you so much, definitely taking a read now

amgreenwell

I am also a 5'8'' woman and I have a medium frame. I have already lost over 20+ lbs(17 of them on MFP).

Eat 1200 calories daily, if I work out I eat 1500 and try to burn at least 300 during my work out. Be sure to measure everything you eat and log each item.
If you stick with the above intake/exercise you should be losing weight....please keep us posted on your results

fast_eddie_72

Anybody who eats "too little" will lost weight. And fast.

Period, full stop.

I already tried that.

Quasita

Anybody who eats "too little" will lost weight. And fast.

Period, full stop.

I already tried that.

Okay, so, I'll concede one thing. If you eat under what you are burning, you will take from your reserves.

However, someone with a historic eating disorder that is not successfully rehabilitating can have a caloric demand far lower than any average person due to how the thyroid and other hormone producing organs can be trained to limit the hunger/need response. People with EDs often report not feeling hungry... and there's a chemical reason for it. They have convinced their body that it's not going to get food, so it just plain stops asking.

So while it may be true that if you eat under your caloric output, you'll lose, you have to make sure your caloric output is at a healthy level to start with. Telling someone with an eating disorder to cut their calories even lower to see weightloss is completely irresponsible, and I'm not going to stand idly by and watch people say that kind of thing to someone that is not asking what you are answering.

Sorry if you have a problem with the fact that I'm not going to put up with this dangerous approach to the OP but I'd much rather have someone I don't know get frustrated with me than keep my mouth shut, and watch people tell the OP to follow the unhealthy road they're on to an untimely death.

Thanks

wilsoje74

Here was a day from last week, to give you some sort of idea of what i'm consuming:
My goal intake is 1400 kcal,
I consumed 967 (roughly), and burned 456 kcal running for 40 minutes. My net was therefore 511, with a left over 949 kcal
Is this normal?

Why are you only eating 967 cal?

fast_eddie_72

Anybody who eats "too little" will lost weight. And fast.

Period, full stop.

I already tried that.

Okay, so, I'll concede one thing. If you eat under what you are burning, you will take from your reserves.

However, someone with a historic eating disorder that is not successfully rehabilitating can have a caloric demand far lower than any average person due to how the thyroid and other hormone producing organs can be trained to limit the hunger/need response. People with EDs often report not feeling hungry... and there's a chemical reason for it. They have convinced their body that it's not going to get food, so it just plain stops asking.

So while it may be true that if you eat under your caloric output, you'll lose, you have to make sure your caloric output is at a healthy level to start with. Telling someone with an eating disorder to cut their calories even lower to see weightloss is completely irresponsible, and I'm not going to stand idly by and watch people say that kind of thing to someone that is not asking what you are answering.

Sorry if you have a problem with the fact that I'm not going to put up with this dangerous approach to the OP but I'd much rather have someone I don't know get frustrated with me than keep my mouth shut, and watch people tell the OP to follow the unhealthy road they're on to an untimely death.

Thanks

You're cool, and thanks for posting so much useful info for the OP. And thanks for clarifying. And please note, I said repeatedly that very low calorie intake is a very bad idea.

jaylouisedavies

Here was a day from last week, to give you some sort of idea of what i'm consuming:
My goal intake is 1400 kcal,
I consumed 967 (roughly), and burned 456 kcal running for 40 minutes. My net was therefore 511, with a left over 949 kcal
Is this normal?

Why are you only eating 967 cal?

that's just so much for me!

sharinganxphunk

Nice to know that my goal weight (your current weight) disgusts you...

Mr_Knight

Eating too little can, in fact, cause problems with weight gain for people with a history of eating disorders.

ED folks may, for various reason, gain weight when eating at "rebounding" levels, but anybody on a VLCalD *will* lose weight, guaranteed, as long as they are eating at very low levels.

There are no "starved" fat people.

To the OP - if you are stalled or gaining, you are eating far more than the 500 net cal/day you believe you are.

Mr_Knight

There is no amount of "metabolic damage" that can undo a huge caloric deficit. The science and studies are unequivocal on this - if someone is running a huge caloric deficit - otherwise known as starving themselves - they *will* lose weight, and they will lose it rapidly (and unless they're obese, very unhealthily).

For frame of reference, 600-800 calories/day is what the rations were in WW2 concentration camps. We've all seen pictures and know what the survivors came out looking like - the face of "metabolic damage" is extreme emaciation.

JJJJ25

Here is one of the best responses to your original question of why you're not losing weight on a low-cal diet: https://gokaleo.com/2014/01/13/why-youre-not-losing-weight/

Cadaverous_Bones

You probably shouldn't net any lower than 1200 to be healthy & lose weight in a safe way. If you're only netting 500 calories your body is in starvation mode thats why you are gaining instead of losing, its holding onto every last calorie because it thinks its starving. Eat more. Eat lots of protein.

psuLemon

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psuLemon

Here was a day from last week, to give you some sort of idea of what i'm consuming:
My goal intake is 1400 kcal,
I consumed 967 (roughly), and burned 456 kcal running for 40 minutes. My net was therefore 511, with a left over 949 kcal
Is this normal?

Why are you only eating 967 cal?

that's just so much for me!

First, you really shoudl get help and not from the internet. Second, you need to eat high calorie foods (if you have to eat peanut butter out of a jar) or nuts, fully fat dairy, etc.. Third, if you are trying to recover, counting calories will not be beneficial to you. In fact, it will probably make things worst.

jaylouisedavies

Nice to know that my goal weight (your current weight) disgusts you...

I didn't say it was disgusting, i'm sorry you get that impression but yeah in terms of myself, i do not wish to weigh this.

WBB55

Why are you only eating 967 cal?

that's just so much for me!

You weigh 160 pounds right now. If 1000 is too many calories for you to eat, then how did you gain 40 pounds? Surely there were times when you ate more than 1000 calories per day. What did you eat then to get enough food?

If you have an eating disorder, you should get help. It sounds like you do.

jaylouisedavies

Why are you only eating 967 cal?

that's just so much for me!

You weigh 160 pounds right now. If 1000 is too many calories for you to eat, then how did you gain 40 pounds? Surely there were times when you ate more than 1000 calories per day. What did you eat then to get enough food?

If you have an eating disorder, you should get help. It sounds like you do.

Honestly, i have no idea how i gained the weight, which is why i'm so desperate to find out why i can't lose it hah!
At my worst, i consumed no more than 500 calories a day religiously, and i mean not one single calorie over. I compulsively exercised every day also. I have had thyroid tests and they came back normal, but i think my body just kinda gave up and thought *kitten* it so now i'm just STUCK.

WBB55

Honestly, i have no idea how i gained the weight,

You could make your diary public, then people could give you better advice. But I think you should find a nutritionist or a therapist. Maybe both.

fast_eddie_72

This was posted in another thread today and may be appropriate for this discussion. I thought it was really interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA9AdlhB18o&feature=youtu.be

AliceDark

Honestly, i have no idea how i gained the weight, which is why i'm so desperate to find out why i can't lose it hah!
At my worst, i consumed no more than 500 calories a day religiously, and i mean not one single calorie over. I compulsively exercised every day also. I have had thyroid tests and they came back normal, but i think my body just kinda gave up and thought *kitten* it so now i'm just STUCK.

You know there's something very wrong with how your body's reacting, if you're saying that you think it just gave up. EDs are serious, fatal diseases, and it sounds like yours is very active. Low body weight is absolutely not the only diagnostic criteria for an ED -- anyone who says you can't have an ED because you weigh more than they think anorexics do has no idea what they're talking about.

I know you said you tried treatment before and it wasn't successful, but all that means is that you didn't have the right treatment team for you at that point in your life. Saying "it didn't work once so it will never work" is like saying your first cancer treatment wasn't successful so you are just not going to treat it and hope it gets better. You try again, and again, until you find the team that understands your individual psychology and can help you.

Quasita

Eating too little can, in fact, cause problems with weight gain for people with a history of eating disorders.

ED folks may, for various reason, gain weight when eating at "rebounding" levels, but anybody on a VLCalD *will* lose weight, guaranteed, as long as they are eating at very low levels.

There are no "starved" fat people.

To the OP - if you are stalled or gaining, you are eating far more than the 500 net cal/day you believe you are.

Except that I myself have been diagnosed with clinical starvation while weighing over 400lbs. What makes a person fat in this situation is that they VLCD 95% of the time, and then they have incredible binges (which, mind you, can be as low as 1200 calories depending on how low their current ED diet is), and the body resists letting any of it go.

Obviously, there is a lack of understanding to what we are talking about here. You also have a LOT more research to do, based on this comment and the second one you made.

Quasita

Honestly, i have no idea how i gained the weight, which is why i'm so desperate to find out why i can't lose it hah!
At my worst, i consumed no more than 500 calories a day religiously, and i mean not one single calorie over. I compulsively exercised every day also. I have had thyroid tests and they came back normal, but i think my body just kinda gave up and thought *kitten* it so now i'm just STUCK.

You know there's something very wrong with how your body's reacting, if you're saying that you think it just gave up. EDs are serious, fatal diseases, and it sounds like yours is very active. Low body weight is absolutely not the only diagnostic criteria for an ED -- anyone who says you can't have an ED because you weigh more than they think anorexics do has no idea what they're talking about.

I know you said you tried treatment before and it wasn't successful, but all that means is that you didn't have the right treatment team for you at that point in your life. Saying "it didn't work once so it will never work" is like saying your first cancer treatment wasn't successful so you are just not going to treat it and hope it gets better. You try again, and again, until you find the team that understands your individual psychology and can help you.

Absolutely! Thank you for speaking up It's a huge pet peeve of mine to have people deny the fact that I'm anorexic/bulimic because of my weight. Trying to explain what clinical starvation is to people who keep images of bone-thin African children and people during the Holocaust in their heads is like punching a brick wall. Maybe eventually you'll break through, but you're going to be bleeding by the end of it...

Even if OP is eating more than 500 calories and doesn't realize it, that's not the point. The point is that there are unrealistic and unhealthy goals at play here, ones that, if achieved, will undoubtedly create lasting and possibly permanent damage. We shouldn't be encouraging or wanting these things for anyone in the MFP community.

OP, I 100% support the idea of trying again. If necessary, look for rehabilitation facilities in your area. If you have the money, look around the country even. There are some amazing places in the US that focus on building healthy food relationships while establishing a better psychological foundation.

I'm not usually one to be exclusionary, but I really don't think that people who are outside ED can understand how hard this is. Even someone like myself, who has been dealing and recovering and relapsing and recovering again for over 14 years, can't know everything that pushes you to the goals you are keeping. This is why I'm asking you to seek professionals.

Typically, severe ED cases on an outpatient basis don't count calories so much as monitor consistency in eating habits, and only weigh at the doctor's office, where they cannot watch the numbers. I found it also helped a lot to have structured exercise instead of just doing whatever "felt right"... meaning, I took classes, and the class time was workout time. When it was over, I was done for the day.

In any case, I think it's very important that you find a good therapist.

sjdavis15

I love your honest response. I wonder about "banking" calorie nets though. Can I "bank" my net calories for an upcoming day or days where I know I'll be tempted to go over my calorie suggestion.

meshashesha2012

youre under eating and causing metabolic damage id slowly increase cals asap

Seems unlikely if they're gaining weight. Other than a medical issue, I guess. Seems more likely they're over-estimating calories burned doing exercise, under-estimating calories consumed, or some combination of those.

Metabolic damage and eating disorders ARE medical issues that shouldn't be ignored.

true but noone gains weight eating LESS food than their body requires otherwise all those people in prison camps and famine situations throughout the ages would be getting larger rather than getting smaller.

eating more than your body needs because of a metabolic disorder has the same result as people without metabolic disorders who eat more than their bodies need.

Quasita

youre under eating and causing metabolic damage id slowly increase cals asap

Seems unlikely if they're gaining weight. Other than a medical issue, I guess. Seems more likely they're over-estimating calories burned doing exercise, under-estimating calories consumed, or some combination of those.

Metabolic damage and eating disorders ARE medical issues that shouldn't be ignored.

true but noone gains weight eating LESS food than their body requires otherwise all those people in prison camps and famine situations throughout the ages would be getting larger rather than getting smaller.

eating more than your body needs because of a metabolic disorder has the same result as people without metabolic disorders who eat more than their bodies need.

Not going to keep repeating myself. Read the rest of the comments. People gain weight when eating less than necessary. Prison camps are not full of people with years-long-established eating disorders or starvation. They are typically filled with average people who are forced into starvation. There's a huge difference.

I already conceded that if you eat below what you are burning, you will theoretically lose, but with ED patients, the established level of metabolic output is already sub-normal and unhealthy, most of the time. The body *needs* more, but it doesn't get it so it's mechanisms shut down. Just because it shuts down doesn't mean it no longer needs the nutrients and calories to function. You can most definitely gain weight eating 1000 calories a day if you have forced your body to sustain on 500 calories for an extensive period of time. That's precisely how I gained over 200lbs in the matter of a couple years, periods of anorexia mixed with "bingeing" of average levels of calories that happened inconsistently.

Need and what the body actively uses are two different things. ED develops in such a way that you don't see emaciation and organ failure until you start doing the dangerous cutting of calories that has already been suggested by repliers on this thread. It sickens me how many people refuse to even attempt to understand what's going on here.

grneyedgoddess77

I am 5' 9" and 160 is UNDER my bodies happy weight. It could be that 40 pounds ago you were starving and your body wants to be this weight for a reason. You may not be the best judge of what your body needs and may have a very skewed idea of what weight you should be. I agree whololeheartedly with other posters - please PLEASE seek help from professionals. A therapist and a dietician to start. You can accurately find out your body fat percentage and that may be a much better measurement than weight.

Also, to those that really believe its always a matter of calorie deficit - that statement is properly followed with the disclaimer that it doesn't always apply to those with medical conditions. No matter how many times you say that to those of us who fall outside the norm, it won't make it true for us. I weigh and measure everything and maintain a deficet that should have me losing 2 pounds a week. Instead I lose about 2 pounds a month. There is so so much more involved than just calories in/out. The human body is a strange and complex thing and a mystery we are very very far from solving

wilsoje74

Here was a day from last week, to give you some sort of idea of what i'm consuming:
My goal intake is 1400 kcal,
I consumed 967 (roughly), and burned 456 kcal running for 40 minutes. My net was therefore 511, with a left over 949 kcal
Is this normal?

Why are you only eating 967 cal?

that's just so much for me!

Well then I would see a doctor because
1. Any normal healthy person (heck a 2 year old) can eat 1000 cal per day
2. You obviously were eating more because you gained weight.