squat help

ME0172

Hi and thank you in advance for reading and helping. I've been lifting weights for 2 months. I am using a Hammer Strength squat machine, (some call a V squat machine) for squats because when I do them with a barbell I get lower back pain. I switched to the Smith Machine and same thing. I find myself being able to do more than 100lbs more on the Hammer Strength machine than either of the other two with no back pain. I've been doing some research and cannot find a straight answer. Am I cheating my hams and glutes by using the machine? I'm seeing strength and body shape gains, so it just makes me wonder if I would be seeing better results if I can perfect dumbbell or smith machine squats. Thank you again!

jhc7324

I had some similar issues when I was first starting out as well. Balky lower back, hip flexors, etc. But I kept systematically backing off the weight when I'd get to a problem, fix my form and get back to my progressions. I'm a little over a year into strength training now, and having those form issues slowed my progression , but in the long run I wasn't going to get anywhere unless I figured out that form stuff.

I'm not familiar with that particular machine, but Its a safe bet that using it is cheating "something". If you're really interested in gaining strength, start out with just the bar, and go from there. You can probably progress to the point where you're putting much more weights on the hammer strength machine, but if you don't figure out how to squat properly, you'll be in the same boat as you are now when you eventually decide to move over to a bar.

The first thing I'd recommend is pick up "Starting Strength", and spend a couple hours (or days lol) reading Rippetoe's section on squats. Its very dense, but I think you'll find that even if you're not grasping all of what he's discussing now, as you progress you'll run into problems and recognize that something from the book that you'd forgotten about or ignored initially turns out to be crucially important and will fix your problem pretty quickly..

IMO, maybe the most important thing to figure out on squats is the bottom position. Squat down below parallel, put your elbows on the inside of your knees and touch your palms together. If you're squatting correctly, your forearms should be parallel to the ground (which means your knees are probably a lot wider apart than you were expecting to have them).

If your knees are too close together, it'll be difficult to get as deep into the squat as you need to go, (when I had this issue I found that I was bending forward at the hips too much in an attempt to go deeper because of my poor knee positioning and ended up doing a "good morning" with the bar on the way up causing the lower back pain).

Sorry for the long winded rant:

Summary -
Pick up the bar
start light
learn the proper form
progress and be awesome

ME0172

http://www.staffsfitness.co.uk/images/products/V-Squat.jpg This is what the machine looks like.

cpusmc

That machine takes the stress off the back and isolates the legs more which may be why you are not having the back pain. If you are seeing results using that v-machine, use it. I dont disagree with the post re drop the weight on the squat to the bar and learn proper form but unless you plan to compete or really want to squat, results are results. Dumbbell squats are great as well and may also be of value, although its tougher to go heavy with dumbbells due to need for grip strength or straps.

Maybe try a combination, stick with the v machine for some heavy sets and finish the workout with just the bar using high reps focused on form, see if the back still hurts and progress from there.

Good luck...

jlclabo

that is a very nice plate weighted machine, all the hammer strength equipment is. but yes you are "cheating" your glutes/hams compared to barbell. with the fixed plane of movement you are isolating the quads more directly. you can change the specific group of the quads hit with changing the foot placement from narrow to wide and in and out. either way you are doing squats so keep it up. as for the lower back pain, you are probably just a bit weak in the core and also not fully engaging the core to brace yourself with the barbell. the smith machine, being beneficial in its own way, are not good for the sole squat movement. as an accessory from time to time it is fine, but if it is used as you main squat for it will take a quick toll on your knees.

homanta

You're cheating your back more than your hams and glutes. Work on your core - various plank poses worked for me. My squat is better and I don't have near the back pain from daily tasks as before when I skipped core exercises. Utilize all of the above, ensure you stretch your back and hams as they tie in to the back and you will definitely notice results all the way around.

Lofteren

No one can give you advice without first seeing a video of your squat.

stealthq

ETA: The funny thing is that the squat done correctly will help strengthen your back and core and will often help with chronic back pain (dependent on the cause, of course).

I think that changing to a machine because of some lower back pain (without a pre-existing condition, I assume) is a mistake. I would work on barbell squat form with the heaviest bar that does NOT cause pain - even if you need to drop down to a broomstick. And if that's still a problem, I'd see a doctor about possible physiological problems. Also, I'd start some lifts to strengthen your core and lower back.

Give that some time and then start increasing weight on the bar. See if that doesn't fix the problem for you.