Bulking without increasing my carb intake more

alecno

Hi MFP,

I am 22, 6'0 male. Currently about ~160lbs. I've been running a small deficit for ~3 months and working out a lot as I try to burn away the last of that belly fat before my first bulk ever (never had a flat stomach before, it is a current short-term goal). I haven't really decided how much I am going to eat when I start bulking, but I do know I do not want to eat more carbs. I am type 1 diabetic (since 16 y/o) and I am pretty conscious of it. I currently average ~200g of carbs per day (the range is like 150-250g per day). I see a lot of advice for bulking eat lots of foods that are calorie and carb dense (e.g. ice cream). I do not want that. Any good high calorie foods with a "normal" amount of carbs?

Thanks!

edit: I also have Celiac, so gluten-free too please :-)

cwolfman13

Your only option would be to up your fats then. Fattier cuts of meat, full fat dairy products, nuts, nut butters, avocados, etc. More fat.

sladepud50

You could always try a keto bulk, take your bw times 20, so if your 160 3200 calories and eat them all based off protein and fat, keeping your carbs under around 50g per day, then do a refuel low fat high carb day every 4 days or so, do some research and see how you feel about it, but it's a great way to drive up your calories and keep your metobolism high while still torching fat, on keto your basicly running your body off ketones from fat rather than from glycogen from carbs.

Ainar

Foods high in fat. Avocados, nuts, cheese, etc. When you cook add a lot of oil and fat to anything. For example instead of grilling meat make sure you fry it in good amount of oil. Make sure those carbs you ate are also in a lot of fat, like french fries boiled in oil for example. Make fatty souses to your foods. You don't have to ate all those unhealthy fat like butter and lard, you can use healthy fat sources like nuts, oils, etc and stay way below 30g of saturated fat a day, which is recommended maximum for males. That's what I do. Fat, fat, fat.

justinproulx1

You could always try a keto bulk, take your bw times 20, so if your 160 3200 calories and eat them all based off protein and fat, keeping your carbs under around 50g per day, then do a refuel low fat high carb day every 4 days or so, do some research and see how you feel about it, but it's a great way to drive up your calories and keep your metobolism high while still torching fat, on keto your basicly running your body off ketones from fat rather than from glycogen from carbs.

This +1

Springfield1970

You could always try a keto bulk, take your bw times 20, so if your 160 3200 calories and eat them all based off protein and fat, keeping your carbs under around 50g per day, then do a refuel low fat high carb day every 4 days or so, do some research and see how you feel about it, but it's a great way to drive up your calories and keep your metobolism high while still torching fat, on keto your basicly running your body off ketones from fat rather than from glycogen from carbs.

I disagree with this. I'm not a doctor,(I highly recommend the OP to run his bulk diet past his doctor) but the idea of a refeed for a diabetic sound freakin deadly. Diabetics should absolutely not be playing around with ketosis either.

OP please take everything you get here with a massive pinch of salt. Waldo, sidesteel, sarauk etc can maybe guide you, but this is not something I advice you to 'feel' your way through or experiment with.

Springfield1970

Bulk

TDEE according to scooby (I put u in as moderate exercise) 2831.
To add approx .5lb muscle and the approx unavoidable .5lb fat = 3500 extra cals per week
Divide by 7 = 500 per day
2831+500 = 3331 calories per day

Carbs first
Your limit is 250 grams
1000 cals

Protein
Let's go high 160g (does anyone think he could go higher?)
640 cals

Fat
The remainder of the cals from fat
Approx 1700
Divided by 9
188 grams fat

That's a lot of fatty meat and fish Greek yog, and nuts. Hope you got dollars! You are going to be meticulously weighing and logging your food too, as fats can get waaaay out and over and your bulk will become a fat bulk, remember you can only gain .5lb muscle per week approx.

I'd be tempted to do no cardio, just mild walking -to get your tdee lower during bulk, so you don't need the extra fuel, lift heavy three times per week.

Again. THIS IS NOT EXPERT ADVICE, but an interesting case for me and I will be reading the replies.Good luck!

SunofaBeach14

Bacon, ribeye steaks, avocados, nuts, bacon, eggs, pork, whole milk, bacon

Springfield1970

Bacon, ribeye steaks, avocados, nuts, bacon, eggs, pork, whole milk, bacon

Damn. I've got bulk envy now.

BeachGingerOnTheRocks

Bulk

TDEE according to scooby (I put u in as moderate exercise) 2831.
To add approx .5lb muscle and the approx unavoidable .5lb fat = 3500 extra cals per week
Divide by 7 = 500 per day
2831+500 = 3331 calories per day

Carbs first
Your limit is 250 grams
1000 cals

Protein
Let's go high 160g (does anyone think he could go higher?)
640 cals

Fat
The remainder of the cals from fat
Approx 1700
Divided by 9
188 grams fat

That's a lot of fatty meat and fish Greek yog, and nuts. Hope you got dollars! You are going to be meticulously weighing and logging your food too, as fats can get waaaay out and over and your bulk will become a fat bulk, remember you can only gain .5lb muscle per week approx.

I'd be tempted to do no cardio, just mild walking -to get your tdee lower during bulk, so you don't need the extra fuel, lift heavy three times per week.

Again. THIS IS NOT EXPERT ADVICE, but an interesting case for me and I will be reading the replies.Good luck!

Absolutely he can go higher on protein, and he probably should in a bulk. I hit 170 grams yesterday with little effort, so for his bulk, it should be easier.

I'm not diabetic, but I am hypoglycemic and have issues with glucose spikes and lulls. OP, keep your carbs steady if you can. 200-250 is a good and manageable number for your plan. Fill salads and the like with higher fat items like avocados and creamy dressings. Certainly don't fear fatty cuts of meat, cheeses, yogurts, ricotta, etc. I know milk is sometimes great and sometimes bad (it's my go-to emergency "crash" stopper when my glucose gets too low) and given that you've lived with this for your lifetime, you know how to manage that.

SunofaBeach14

..

Fithealthyforlife

You could always try a keto bulk, take your bw times 20, so if your 160 3200 calories and eat them all based off protein and fat, keeping your carbs under around 50g per day, then do a refuel low fat high carb day every 4 days or so, do some research and see how you feel about it, but it's a great way to drive up your calories and keep your metobolism high while still torching fat, on keto your basicly running your body off ketones from fat rather than from glycogen from carbs.

I disagree with this. I'm not a doctor,(I highly recommend the OP to run his bulk diet past his doctor) but the idea of a refeed for a diabetic sound freakin deadly. Diabetics should absolutely not be playing around with ketosis either.

OP please take everything you get here with a massive pinch of salt. Waldo, sidesteel, sarauk etc can maybe guide you, but this is not something I advice you to 'feel' your way through or experiment with.

This is the best advice in this whole thread so far. Diabetes type 1 does not mean lower carb intake is better. Ketosis is not good for anyone, diabetes or not.

Smarter carb intake is the answer in this situation. Unfortunately I don't know what this means. I just have a vague idea, and so I can't guide someone with it. The other bad thing is, most physicians would probably not be familiar with bulking, and would therefore discourage it unless their patient was skinny. I would also think they would not encourage it for a diabetic--whether type 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. (yes, there are more than 2 types of diabetes.) But this doesn't mean you shouldn't bulk. On the contrary. It's probably good for you if done right.

I would try to learn as much about nutritional biochemistry as possible if I were in this position. It's about out-smarting the system, and working within the constraints you have to work within.

Hopefully someone who is an expert both on bulking and on diabetes type 1 will see this thread and reply.

That said, I would think bulking would entail eating more of what you already eat. Since you must be on insulin therapy for type 1, I would guess there might be adjustments required to your testing/treatment plan.

SuperstarDJ

It's a lot more complicated when you're type 1 diabetic as you have to maintain a fine balance with your blood sugar and insulin levels. You really need to speak with your team, particularly your endocrinologist and dietician, to work out the right regime for you so you're not wasting your time.

Fithealthyforlife

It's a lot more complicated when you're type 1 diabetic as you have to maintain a fine balance with your blood sugar and insulin levels. You really need to speak with your team, particularly your endocrinologist and dietician, to work out the right regime for you so you're not wasting your time.

And don't take no for an answer if they tell you that you shouldn't bulk. Explain to them how important it is, and that you're willing to do whatever it takes to do it in a safe way. Worst case, find a physician who understands and is willing to work with you. Most are pushing weight loss instead of gain. But a good doc should understand how challenging it can be for type 1 diabetics to maintain a healthy BMI and gain weight...due to the diet restrictions.

I don't have diabetes, but I'm lucky enough to have a physician who understands that gaining weight in this way is important to me, and who is encouraging me to do it and is supportive of me getting into better shape in the long run. This physician works with a lot of people with diabetes.

There are also others who have done this; I know there are.

SunofaBeach14

You could always try a keto bulk, take your bw times 20, so if your 160 3200 calories and eat them all based off protein and fat, keeping your carbs under around 50g per day, then do a refuel low fat high carb day every 4 days or so, do some research and see how you feel about it, but it's a great way to drive up your calories and keep your metobolism high while still torching fat, on keto your basicly running your body off ketones from fat rather than from glycogen from carbs.

I disagree with this. I'm not a doctor,(I highly recommend the OP to run his bulk diet past his doctor) but the idea of a refeed for a diabetic sound freakin deadly. Diabetics should absolutely not be playing around with ketosis either.

OP please take everything you get here with a massive pinch of salt. Waldo, sidesteel, sarauk etc can maybe guide you, but this is not something I advice you to 'feel' your way through or experiment with.

^ This is really a very good point.

OP - please talk to your doctor. You may have to find a doctor who ask experience with Type 1 diabetic athletes for good guidance though so don't be afraid to look around for the right doctor.

erickirb

the only thing you really need to change diet wise from cut to bulk is to increase carbs as u need more protein in a deficit anyway. Why r u worried about carbs on a bulk?

for workoits increase volume or time under tension.

Did i miss something, but i dont see anywhere that the op is diabetic.???

Fithealthyforlife

the only thing you really need to change diet wise from cut to bulk is to increase carbs as u need more protein in a deficit anyway. Why r u worried about carbs on a bulk?

for workoits increase volume or time under tension.

I think he wants to be extra careful and make sure his body can handle the carbs, since he is type 1 diabetic.

In theory, a properly managed type 1 diabetic should be just like anyone else...in theory. But extra caution is warranted, as treatment parameters may vary with carb intake and weight gain.

Springfield1970

the only thing you really need to change diet wise from cut to bulk is to increase carbs as u need more protein in a deficit anyway. Why r u worried about carbs on a bulk?

for workoits increase volume or time under tension.

Did i miss something, but i dont see anywhere that the op is diabetic.???

It's in his initial post. Very small and in lower case, but it should be in bold capitals! Scary stuff, makes me wonder how many people (with diagnosed or even undiagnosed conditions) who are taking advice from us that could have horrible consequences. People tread carefully!

alecno

Thank you for the conscientious replies. As many of you guessed, I have no intention of dropping to a low-carb diet. Ketosis has put me in the ICU for 4 days before (generally how you find out you are type 1 diabetic). Insulin management is quite challenging as I reshape my body, and I have to monitor it closely. So as said in the title, I just wanted to try to maintain my current carb intake.

Unfortunately, I am not generally spending a lot on food as a full-time student. Hopefully I can figure out a way to bulk on a budget.

Edit: relevant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetic_ketoacidosis

erickirb

the only thing you really need to change diet wise from cut to bulk is to increase carbs as u need more protein in a deficit anyway. Why r u worried about carbs on a bulk?

for workoits increase volume or time under tension.

Did i miss something, but i dont see anywhere that the op is diabetic.???

It's in his initial post. Very small and in lower case, but it should be in bold capitals! Scary stuff, makes me wonder how many people (with diagnosed or even undiagnosed conditions) who are taking advice from us that could have horrible consequences. People tread carefully!

I see it now, thnx

Fithealthyforlife

Thank you for the conscientious replies. As many of you guessed, I have no intention of dropping to a low-carb diet. Ketosis has put me in the ICU for 4 days before (generally how you find out you are type 1 diabetic). Insulin management is quite challenging as I reshape my body, and I have to monitor it closely. So as said in the title, I just wanted to try to maintain my current carb intake.

Unfortunately, I am not generally spending a lot on food as a full-time student. Hopefully I can figure out a way to bulk on a budget.

Edit: relevant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetic_ketoacidosis

That's a good strategy...work with the amount of carbs you're eating now...and then if you need more later, you and your physician can work together to alter your therapy as needed.

One advantage you have over most people is that you're testing your glucose levels often. If you're the type of person who is into biology, and you put in the effort to understand all the details, it can give you more information about what you need during your bulk. Most of us don't get to test our glucose levels as often. But it can be valuable information while you're on a bulk.

takumaku

OP, as a full time student, do you have access to a nutritionist? Maybe the school has a nutritional science, exercise science, or nursing department which can provide some insight into how to meet your goals.

SuperstarDJ

It's a lot more complicated when you're type 1 diabetic as you have to maintain a fine balance with your blood sugar and insulin levels. You really need to speak with your team, particularly your endocrinologist and dietician, to work out the right regime for you so you're not wasting your time.

And don't take no for an answer if they tell you that you shouldn't bulk. Explain to them how important it is, and that you're willing to do whatever it takes to do it in a safe way. Worst case, find a physician who understands and is willing to work with you. Most are pushing weight loss instead of gain. But a good doc should understand how challenging it can be for type 1 diabetics to maintain a healthy BMI and gain weight...due to the diet restrictions.

I don't have diabetes, but I'm lucky enough to have a physician who understands that gaining weight in this way is important to me, and who is encouraging me to do it and is supportive of me getting into better shape in the long run. This physician works with a lot of people with diabetes.

There are also others who have done this; I know there are.

You shouldn't have a problem with your team (hopefully). Most doctors will support muscle building as the more muscle you have, the better your glucose control - although you will probably find their protein suggestions low, due to potential kidney issues.

Fithealthyforlife

It's a lot more complicated when you're type 1 diabetic as you have to maintain a fine balance with your blood sugar and insulin levels. You really need to speak with your team, particularly your endocrinologist and dietician, to work out the right regime for you so you're not wasting your time.

And don't take no for an answer if they tell you that you shouldn't bulk. Explain to them how important it is, and that you're willing to do whatever it takes to do it in a safe way. Worst case, find a physician who understands and is willing to work with you. Most are pushing weight loss instead of gain. But a good doc should understand how challenging it can be for type 1 diabetics to maintain a healthy BMI and gain weight...due to the diet restrictions.

I don't have diabetes, but I'm lucky enough to have a physician who understands that gaining weight in this way is important to me, and who is encouraging me to do it and is supportive of me getting into better shape in the long run. This physician works with a lot of people with diabetes.

There are also others who have done this; I know there are.

You shouldn't have a problem with your team (hopefully). Most doctors will support muscle building as the more muscle you have, the better your glucose control - although you will probably find their protein suggestions low, due to potential kidney issues.

But many people, including physicians, aren't aware of "bulking"...even those who do weight training themselves. Just as in the general population, there aren't many people aware of it.

Most people are intuitively aware of the "recomp". But this strategy won't work for someone with a low bodyfat percentage. The closest equivalent for such a person is a "lean bulk".

That said, any physician worth their degree knows that in order to gain weight, a person has to eat more. It's just the idea of convincing certain people that gaining weight can be a good thing, which is the tricky part. I once had a physician tell me when I was in high school and was 152 lbs and 6% body fat, that my ideal weight was 147. Not only was he wrong...this was bad advice.

---

OP: If confronted with this, you just have to stick to your guns and tell them you want to gain weight in a healthy way, need a bit more protein because of your workouts, and are concerned about the fact that you may have to increase carbs at some point.

But it sounds like you have a good handle on how to proceed with it for now.

Mrsallypants

Ribeye steaks.

Will certain types of carbs such as whole grains prevent your blood sugar from spiking too much?

waldo56

Your carb intake should be fine to bulk. Not ideal, but you have to deal with the hand you are dealt.

Though with a somewhat lowish carb intake (for bulking), you'll probably want to be less aggressive with a surplus.

In reality you aren't talking about that big of differences between moderate bulking and normal eating for everyone else, a few hundred cals over maintenance is not weird at all, everybody that isn't cutting (losing weight) does it regularly, the only difference with bulking is that you do it every day. You're not talking about some extreme eating state.

Plenty of athletes have successfully managed it.

And if you are going to spend some time googling type 1 diabetes and bulking, be aware that you are going to find that insulin is used as a PED same as testosterone and HGH. Don't go down that road, it is very dangerous (assuming that you take insulin for your diabetes).

As to your question about good foods....I would stick with your current carb intake/foods and add fats/protein. Bacon is always a good choice.

mikemc620

OP, I really don't see what the big problem with having a higher carb diet is. I personally think that it would be a lot easier to control.

I am a Type 1 Diabetic and have been for 18 years. Carbs are easy to control, you know what your carb to insulin ratio is and you account for it. I actually have more trouble with the higher protein meals that I eat. I average 400-450 g of carbs a day.

My meals are usually about 100g carbs each, so what is really the problem with adding in another meal? You should be able to just handle it the same way you do with the first two.

greenspan4

your best bet then would to increase fats. if you are bulking you need to be in a calroie surplus and getting it from fats can be really easy. for example each carb and protein is 4 calories when fat is 9! so if you eat a lot more fats you will not have to increase your carbs as much so you can still bulk. eat a lot more mono and polysaturated fats that are found in things like olive oil,almonds mixed nuts, and much more. good luck man!